892 - Talking Points Memo feat. Jael Holzman (12/10/24)

I’ve never praised pod save 🥸

Studio Novaya

I only know one trans person but he’s definitely not fake.

David Woodward

Genuinely confused. I found her answers a bit odd, but not condescending. She seemed worried and exhausted.

David Woodward

Don’t kys

David Woodward

I would love to hear this exact episode and questions asked - but to a Marxist/socialist trans person instead of this person. I think the answers would have been far more useful and meaningful to the cause, rather than Jael’s condescending and highly lib-coded approach.

Jesse Wood

With friends like these, who needs enemies!

TL

Replying to Karl: This is idiotic. Trans people suffer from the same things all Americans do (poverty, racism, etc)—at higher rates than the general public—while experiencing targeted transphobic attacks ON TOP OF that. Stopping this one form of discrimination will improve the lives of trans people, but in what way does that mean they’ve “skipped the line” when they’re just going to be suffering as much as all other Americans, as opposed to more than them? Did the civil rights movement lead to black people “skipping the line”? Did legalizing gay marriage mean gay people “skipped the line”? Use your fucking head, man.

TL

Yeah—a reference to the black square posted during the BLM protests, I believe

TL

How exactly are they invading?

Ghordo

Why is Will such a soft lib when it comes to trans issues? Can’t believe during that review of Ballers he had the audacity to say “Transwomen invading women’s sports isn’t happening.”

Dan

Kids should not be receiving hormone treatments that aren't necessary. It will come out that the kids that took hormone blockers will have physical life alternating affects. You can look studies about other mammals that we castrate to see that. Kids need to go through puberty than if they want to actually transition after than that's their choice and should be a choice that they can take

billbo

Before HRT, we could be easily identified and segregated, and cis society kept us forced into sex work and begging to survive. HRT is a stealth system that allows us to live and move freely outside of red light districts. It lets us live outside the closet as something other than either a sex object for men or a dire warning for those who fail to live up to the ideals of manhood.

Ashley Finch

Yeah people love phone banking. You're a joke. The problem was the guest not the issue.

darick michael lapaglia

💝💝💝

Studio Novaya

Right; and instead of accepting that Will pushed her until she gave him some bullshit so they could wrap it up. Love the guy but this was not his best work.

Studio Novaya

idk how you draw a parallel between a porn actress being called racist for doing interracial porn and a congresswoman who calls for supporting a genocide. but fuck you too.

absoluteboi

but I was confidently assured that Trump wouldn’t do anything too transphobic for fear of upsetting Caitlyn Jenner

Robert Aitken

Caelan Conrad would be a nice guest for the show. I don't know how they identify other than not straight.

K H

🙄

Studio Novaya

It would be cute if my mom was a prostitute; then I could say I was a second generation business owner.

Studio Novaya

its a fair question, and a good answer would have given the rest of us ammunition to use in our own lives, to combat the most popular casual anti-trans rhetoric.

Erik Bourre

is it just me, or did she NOT answer the question at 22:00?

Erik Bourre

Damn this is bleak. I live in New Zealand, we've had a recent influx of American trans people into my community and they're very welcome and loved here, I know this probably isn't helpful to most people and it's definitely not what I would want from this situation but if you are trans and you do need to escape there are parts of NZ (NZers on the whole are very accepting of trans people) where you can come and we will help you get work, get sponsored and get a permanent residency so you can get the care you need thru the NZ govt and healthcare system. If you would like more information then msg me on here (if that's even possible) and I will do everything I can to help. Much love, K.

NitroDickclapp III

Jael's asking why aren't people protesting McBride being effectively banned from using the bathroom, well, it's because 1. it's an obscure thing in Congress only really making the rounds on twitter, 2. McBride is a bloodless pro-genocide ghoul who pulls for "Israel" almost as hard as Torres does, so no one actually likes her.

Tyler Sutherland

I love trans folks, but I hate journalists

Big Tex

That’s incorrect. She said a lot of interesting stuff when given questions related to her research.

Studio Novaya

I can, that’s why I’m still alive. Humans are an incredibly diverse species; however there are some major evolutionary traits regarding cooperation & mimicry that make it excruciating for most to be ostracized by mainstream society.

Studio Novaya

CTH fans when the guest is trans: 💀

TariqNasheed

only getting blowjobs at truckstops eh? at least your mom will be back to work! SWISH!!

Craven Moorehead

@Novaya 🔥✊🏻😔

Valerie

Robert, thank you for saying what should be obvious to anyone here. No marginalized group is expendable.

Valerie

Honestly yeah. It's super upsetting to see how illiterate on this issue the Chapo listener base is and how insanely negative the comments are piling on to one trans woman they don't agree with.

Valerie

Yeah cool, just dismiss a vulnerable minority who is disproportionately affected by every economic issue under the sun as "first world problems" basically. That'll help the working class 🙄

Valerie

Thank you for having this conversation and having Jael on 💗💗💗💗💗

Valerie

You need to just stop. You're being the biggest asshole in this entire comment section. The majority of working class people in this country disagree with you strongly and you look down on all of them with distain. You have no interest in building solidarity with them. You don't even actually care about advancing this issue because you enjoy feeling like you're morally superior to other people because you are a liberal through and through.

Adam H.

This is all good stuff but at what time does Felix start speaking?

Fernslinger

Sorry protesting isn't my job

Lunar

These people need to take the Scythian horse-piss pill, smdh

Dyyyyylan

You are clearly delusional. Sex work is a terrible thing trans women have to turn to to survive yes. No they thems do that. It's mostly black and Latina trans women who do in major cities. Your only fans is not the same thing as the awful problem of prostitution. The unemployment rate is not that high and it's obvious to anyone who knows real trans people. There are people who lack money to transition. But that is not the most common reason they don't and they are different from the problem people which are fake trans people and trenders who undermine us. That you don't understand this is why you lose. Our medical standards are great. If you don't meet the criteria you shouldn't transiton. I don't care if that hurts you. If medical experts don't think you have dysphoria then you don't. That's in the context of it being so easy to transition nowadays through things like informed consent. You are clearly a little silly. I see that often in the they them crowd. The fact that in the face of a real defense of politically mature transgender politics you have to resort to saying I'm a troll and not trans is why you lose. You're immature and spend too much time in a bubble.

Miquella on HRT

David it seems like you haven't read the comments below. There are tons of people complaining about all the transphobes despite there not being any transphobes. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that we talk about kids with this issue all the time. I was referring to the part of this episode where Will asked Jael how to address people that have concerns about kids and she wouldn't answer the question. Maybe you can answer it. What do you do about the fact that the majority of workers in this country, the group of people that us leftists care about the most, are largely reactionaries? Do we call them idiots for thinking that kids shouldn't receive hormone treatments that aren't medically necessary, in the sense that they don't have any physical ailments that need to be treated? Is that going get them on our side?

Adam H.

I’m appealing to her expertise on the subject matter to provide actionable information to the audience who might not be aware of how they might be able to help a population in imminent danger, especially when the circumstances seem clear that there are very few allies in the govt able to do anything to change a policy like bathroom restrictions in federal buildings.

Dean

Mostly my own entertainment at the moment? It is useful to stand up and say: no, I will not play Uncle Tom today because it helps all of the Trans people reading the comments who are afraid of speaking publicly because they may be picked apart and ridiculed instead of listened to and encouraged (like what has happened in many of these comments) know that at least one sexy robot has their back.

Studio Novaya

This all smells like “pick me,” 🙄

Studio Novaya

Wouldn’t it be cool if Melania came out as trans? Diversity of tactics, Ma’am. You keep on keeping on and work your way up to being First Lady. And we will keep on funding transition care with our crimes and nursing trans people through detox when they’re ready and able to recover from what the lack of safety net forced them into. Many they/thems don’t medically transition for the same economic reasons that many trans women can’t/ don’t: lack of fucking money and affordable healthcare and dependence on sex work. You’re probably a troll and probably not actually a trans woman but for those reading the reality is that unemployment for trans people is still over 90% and that’s why so many turn to sex work; then as a sex worker whether you’re mtf/ ftm/ intersex you end up making more money with your “original hardware,” so there are many reason people choose to medically transition or not and absolutely none of them have to do with being a fake trans. Yes I took the bait. I’m a they/them who couldn’t medically transition because of the crazy ass medical standards written by transphobic predators until very recently and now obviously we have a short window to get all our surgeries in.

Studio Novaya

Absolutely not. I’ve been out for 20 years. We have had google for like 22 years? If you don’t know by now, you’re never gonna. And I can’t waste my time. We are out here working

Studio Novaya

🔥

Studio Novaya

I would make a sign that is a square to post about it, but it is not my job.

Studio Novaya

Exactly. That’s what the anti-trans agenda is all about; and that’s why trans people are under attack. We’re an easy scapegoat. And you’re gross and stupid for saying that instead of saying: wow I’m so tired of hearing about this tiny segment of the population being under attack for the purpose of uniting what is already a very strong populist movement

Studio Novaya

Wow you love that you’re owning her right now don’t you? Does it feel good to be right and for her to be wrong? Does that feel like productive solidarity?

Studio Novaya

This is a tough one. I remember when I was a young porn model I resented the very loud platform one particular model had as a “feminist,” artist. That was, until she was criticized by a porn reviewer for having done BBC porn and that being racist, that’s some bullshit back in the day especially models had absolutely no say about how their work was marketed and it just showed this bullshit purity / moral superiority within the “feminist” porn world. That really opened my eyes to the fact that I resented this other model not because she had a platform but because I had no voice. We do not need to silence any trans people right now. It doesn’t matter if they’re not perfect. What matters more is adding more and more voices to the conversation and continuing in the direction of equal rights and basic dignity and respect. We do that first by showing it for one another.

Studio Novaya

Do you not see how you’re doing the same thing here by assuming you have a superior grasp on the dynamic and you’re taking on a parental role towards her instead of just listening to what she had to say?

Studio Novaya

👏 👏 👏 Thank you Vienna

Studio Novaya

👏 👏 👏

Studio Novaya

Furthermore: if your friends or family are not viewing trans rights as human rights… you have some fucking work to do. Roll up your sleeves and start phone banking right now. Get your articles stacked. It is now your job to not be a sniveling little shithead who complains about podcasts and to go tell people to their faces that you believe including trans people in every facet of society with love and care is necessary for all of our survival. Point out to your friends and family that they’ve been brainwashed into focusing on persecuting a small minority to distract from war profiteering and massive state violations of human rights in our prison systems for profit.

Studio Novaya

Being trans doesn’t absolve you from being an asshole you know that right?

Studio Novaya

How do you know she’s rich? And did you choose a misogynist insult about her voice on purpose or are U really just that nasty?

Studio Novaya

I’m not sure I see your post here. We as a society do discuss which surgeries and treatments ought to be available to trans people and at what age. In fact we talk about it like almost nonstop at this point lol. U have not been met w any shrieking accusations of transphobia here, and this is an avowed radical left-wing space so if ur not getting shouted down here then where r u getting shouted down. As far as ‘a right to exist:’ what does that even meeeeean bro. Lol the issue under contention is whether trans people ought to be allowed to transition, ought to be able to transition, and ought to exist openly as trans people. If you do not feel that govt health plans should cover the procedures and treatments involved w transitioning then ur answer to the above questions has to be: no.

David Brown

My guy have you ever used the Internet?

Studio Novaya

A+ excellent comment

Studio Novaya

Yes, but this is the comment section my guy.

Studio Novaya

Cool; yes I agree with all of this and I’m glad you explained. I can understand your frustration. Yeah I assumed you were cis because of the way you were talking about Trans people as a general population that was alienating themselves etc — it sounds really gross when you take the time to criticize “trans people,” it is just unnecessary. I didn’t need you to list your credentials and I’m certainly not listing mine. I am grateful for your work and service but it doesn’t change your shitty comment. In this case, now knowing that you’re trans and an organizer: cut her some fucking slack she is obviously lacking experience in public speaking and trying. It would still be great if you helped her out instead of piling on the criticism. It really sounds like you’re posturing and venting frustrations towards a fellow trans woman rather than just appreciating that she is doing something, while staying alive. She did do something by writing the article and just because she fumbled the interview doesn’t mean we need to get so fully distracted by her lack of social graces. Why not add your advice about what she should have said rather than get hung up on your negative opinion of her? I’ve been organizing with sex workers for 20 years since I was a survival worker myself; out, openly dating trans women and being trans myself for 20 years. No reason to air your grievances of a sister to all of these haters. There’s a time and a place and public ridicule of a trans woman for something this petty is not necessary. Even if you are trans yourself and have done something positive at one time. I never said she did an amazing job; but she did a job. And this digging in on her is just gross all around. Of course there’s more these jabronis can do but yet another comment not actually addressing the elephant in the room: People need to actually openly embrace trans people in every aspect of their lives right now: In their school, workplace, home, everywhere it is important to be asking about trans inclusion in any facet of life that anyone has any modicum of agency around choosing who they include. That will look different for everyone. Activism 101. The local and state governments are our first line of defense. Get engaged and know who your representatives are. Drastically change the way you speak and address everyone regarding trans issues: don’t tolerate casual transphobia. Support the activists in your life and look to those who are doing the most and ask how you can help rather than thinking you need to be a hero. Etc etc etc Meanwhile: the insurance assassin seems to be on to something. We all need to understand what is too far gone is the federal government and look to smaller, local institutions for protection: churches, even. If people are a part of a spiritual organization they need to petition the leadership to be openly inclusive of trans people. HIRE TRANS PEOPLE for jobs that are not porn. I cannot tell you how many young trans people I tell to NOT give up on their options for work or turn to sex work (don’t @ me about sex work I’m an OG criminal whore who is out of patience SW rights are worker’s rights but it is high hazard work with zero benefits no nothing and is really fucking damaging) How’s that for a comment?

Studio Novaya

MISHIMA

4 Yalies and a dirt strip in Honduras

😂 😂 😂

Studio Novaya

Hoxa was on tons of T

4 Yalies and a dirt strip in Honduras

I’m glad. Thanks for asking a coherent question instead of whining.

Studio Novaya

Is that true ab how trans women see amber and will? I was unaware. Why is that? I’m v interested

David Brown

Yeah, but they are all obviously redditors if you look through it. Who brought them? Not us. Chapo reddit was 86ed over 4 years ago. Tranphobes get waxed here and don't come back. Jael and friends brought this shit in if you pay any attention. I'd say we're being worked by both sides on this one.

Daffy

fine whatever

etienne

"comment section made me..." Fucking redditors. I thought we had this shit firewalled.

Daffy

Stalin actually

Robert Dragani

Oh my fucking god this is Chapo Trap House Comment section and you’re policing hyperbole? Who the fuck are you? Hitler?

Studio Novaya

That is very well put. Too bad there is no one with a pen or column to tell us about it, I guess.

Daffy

Yeah then imagine you crucified yourself in front of your ignorant allies and blame them for it. Go to fucking church if you want to be that weepy for self sacrifice. What was the point of all of that? To yell at us? Us? Jael was acting like she about to video game herself then and there. Because white guys failed her? FUCK THAT. I'm trans.

Daffy

you can pull this wedge even if you have state medicine, it's actually extremely easy and destructive, look at *especially* the UK. I don't know how to really react or respond to what you're saying but I don't think you're advancing any point whatsoever here

etienne

I've seen this other ways. A lot of our lesbian sisters despise Amber and Will for instance. Some "serious" leftists refuse to truck with dirtbag rhetoric mostly out of pettiness I believe. I've noticed some of us want identity before unity. Maybe that's how it works?

Daffy

Oh a "hospital" with "funding". Right. We don't have those where I live. Maybe that's why I didn't get it at first. A lot of leftists here forget most of America hadn't spoken to a doctor before covid, and probably haven't seen one since. Lemme be clear (bungler voice) I am trans, but there are some huge blind spots that are worse the closer to idpol you get. This is definitely one of those issues. Probably why liberals and conservatives are cooking the hell out of us with it.

Daffy

And another one: incorrect

Studio Novaya

My dude, do we who are all listening to Chapo not already know all the actions we need to take? Seriously?

Studio Novaya

Good answer thank you for the comment it helped me to understand

Robert Dragani

It sounds like you don’t have any context for the medicalization of trans people which is a complex and deeply fucked up history. We are and have always been far from being able to access decent medical care. Heck, cis-women just barely have gotten any healthcare. It also sounds like you’re missing a lot of information about how the field of psychology works and what the prognosis for suicidality is as well as the research (Hopkins did a bunch) directly linking homophobic public policy with youth suicide rates by measuring the numbers as each state passed gay marriage the youth/ child suicide rate went down dramatically. The hypothesis of the Hopkins study should be self-explanatory but what it illustrates is that those children are LGBTQAI. Also fuck all these cis people in the comments who say Trans people impede their own liberation by not being nice to heterosexuals. We have managed to make nice with all the other letters 🙄

Studio Novaya

Here’s something heterosexuals don’t understand: your sexual freedom is linked to the queerest among you. We are headed back to the 50’s where you could only get blowjobs at truck stops. Between surveillance and all this? Ur not gonna be able to have your Feeld profiles anymore.

Studio Novaya

Ohhhhh, I see what's going on now. You're a Redditor. "Read the fucking article" _Barf!

Daffy

Ditto. Thank you. I had to lookup BNMW. I never got on Twitter. Voting any other party and I'll go one farther. Labeling attitudes like Jael's what they are. Feds or grifters. For them unity and identity have become mutually exclusive. That's the same thing as someone you can never work with.

Daffy

See, you're lying here. That's just a god damn lie. Nothing useful was said. If you're already bought in to this issue all Jael did was humiliate it.

Daffy

Why do you think alienating normies is useful? Please have a good reason.

Daffy

Am I missing something? In what part of life, for anyone, is this level of condescension helpful? Seriously, whereto in life does this level of derision from an invited guest get you? I know the issue better than other normies and this dialogue was frightening. This is lowkey exactly how feds operate. Every single reason you can think up to piss on left adjacent or left allies. Actually, she didn't even bring up the ERA which is basic starters for this issue. I'm going to tell my friends that she's a fed. Some of our lesbian sisters are frequently not invited because of how often they hinder proper proceedings. She really was just shitting on our meetup. THATS A FED!!!

Daffy

Idk how you all don’t realize what whiney babies you sound like. Waaah the lady on the show didn’t like us or wanna help us look like we don’t not see her as human. Waaah.

Studio Novaya

Incorrect, you are an idiot.

Studio Novaya

Were inventing hormone therapy. Trans gonna trans. Nobody actually is going to stop transitioning if medical care goes away but we will all go back to doing it less safely.

Studio Novaya

Yes it does.

Studio Novaya

I have a lot of solidarity in my life AND I insulate myself. The two are not in opposition.

Studio Novaya

sorry I was out of facts actually. maybe next time!

etienne

Also incorrect, and an idiot.

Studio Novaya

Once again, incorrect and you are an idiot.

Studio Novaya

Hit me w the facts

Robert Dragani

how many paragraphs of detailed and compassionate explanations do I need to give to you before you stop playing games

etienne

do you want a gold medal for having a special boy opinion or you do you want to honestly engage with the facts

etienne

I want trans people to have healthcare as much as I want everyone to have healthcare. But the problem is that no one but the rich has great access to healthcare in our country. I think it’s hard for people to wrap their mind around supporting trans healthcare when they themselves don’t have access to affordable healthcare.

Robert Dragani

Maybe, but this shit is pretty scary and people are not always best at staying level-headed and dispassionate during such times. I am willing to have compassion for that.

curegore

yeah it is hyperbolic I guess

etienne

if you're queer coded in a place that doesn't have protections - a guy sees you and guns you the fuck down, he pleads that he was scared you were about to sexually assaults him. he walks - he sexually assaults you and it's also your fault - the police thinks/pretends you're a prostitute. you to go prison - you fill any piece of paperwork with the state or a private entity: you can enter Kafka Hell Dimension if any of them decide they don't like your new name and gender, and then become homeless and die

etienne

But isn’t a bit hyperbolic to say “all trans people are going to die” if XYZ happens

Robert Dragani

one factor that was almost spelled out in the ep is, if your state's hospitals have statuses or subsidies tied to refusing to give trans inclusive or -affirmative care, and you're trans, then by chilling effect that includes doing anything to you at all, then being left to die in the street. Same as we're seeing with pregnancy incidents in states with anti-abortion laws. that and there's also a lot of just outright murder too

etienne

imagine if you had a job that paid your bills, then quit it because you knew people would start to police which bathroom you used, and then it happened to an ex-coworker, and you tried to do something about it, and then some moron tried to gotcha you about it

etienne

Please don’t attack me, I’m asking from a place of curiosity and wanting to understand, but I don’t know what they mean when they say trans people are going to die if they don’t have access to this healthcare. Is there some intervention that keeps trans people alive? Or are they just insinuating that trans people will commit suicide if they don’t have access to this healthcare? Genuine question because I’m a dumb man who needs things spelled out for me. Thanks.

Robert Dragani

If our opinions of their lives don’t matter, than why the hell are we even talking about it! Every single one of your comments in this thread is cast in a neoliberal yoke that has proven overwhelmingly to be fundamentally antagonistic to any meaningful progress on any issue. “Shut the fuck up and just go do a civil rights movement for a cause that owes you nothing because your opinion doesn’t matter.” Lmao. Fuck off!

Sam

🎯

Sam

Just trying to have a conversation. Just a little chat.

Jon

Not sure if the mare piss enarees were drinking counts as HRT

Vincent

What the song at the end

sweetiepie

A take only a straight white guy could have

VAN Fan

"Refreshing" that she didn't "pander" to people that don't already give a fuck. Do you want to build solidarity or do you want to insulate yourself?

Adam H.

I agree with this; and it was refreshing to hear a trans journalist talk about trans issues while unapologetically not pandering to people who don’t already give AF

Studio Novaya

As someone who has been watching my trans gf of 10 years have slow mental breakdown post election, I found Jael infuriating. They were right to say that cutting off trans care will devastate the trans community but to follow up all the stakes building with "it's not my job" disgusts me. There is something so classically liberal about Jael's whole thing here, they will raise awareness but God forbid you ask for any concrete actions that might be taken to actually address the problem.

Timmy V

BUt JAel, I don't want to work a 3rd job to talk to people about what bathroom other people use. That's weird, remember? And I have bills.

Jambo

Journalists should be activists. Anything else moral cowardice. The truth is not an amoral. What a dumb response from her.

Karim El-Hayawan

@Robert Aitken The only ones doing the bullying here are the Democrats themselves and if calling representatives or protesting or posting squares to Instagram did anything, then Israel would have run out of bombs months ago. The Democrats are not legitimate people.

Karim El-Hayawan

What exactly did I say that was incorrect? Simply calling something incorrect doesn't prove anything.

Adam H.

@Jack Hermelin Those trans commies aren't the ones writing for Axios, politico or Rolling Stone or getting invited on big podcasts or the ones being elevated to speak for "trans people" are they? It remains the case that the only analysis represented for trans people is the lib one. I'm saying if you want me (and I hope also others who consider themselves communists) to listen to a trans person talk trans politics then invite someone like Alyson Escalante, who I love and not ineffectual politico and axios writers like Jael or grifters like Wynn. "but that means they should be despised for their gender" You had to do some real mental jujitsu extrapolation and ignoring the obvious hyperbole to come to the conclusion that I said that but I'll address it directly. For me personally sometimes the identity of someone does factor into me despising them more at like reason 998. For example, a politically engaged African American being a Zionist is a bigger insult to me than if they were white because they should know better. That's why as an Arab (not Arab American) seeing Ethiopian Jews in the IDF is more hurtful because that is a direct betrayal and rejection of a possible common struggle in favour of joining the oppressor. Maybe you are a better person than I am but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure your blood boils more when Phyllis Schlafly talks antifeminism than Jordan Peterson.

Karim El-Hayawan

A big problem with the messaging around this issue is that if you even try to have a discussion about it then you're just met with things like, "Incorrect, you're an idiot". That's not an argument.

Adam H.

Incorrect. You’re an idiot

Studio Novaya

The “Trans Issue,” has been raised by the War Mongers to distract everyone from their war profiteering. That’s what the fuck this is: and the public gets emboldened by the propaganda and bullshit bathroom dramas and the gutting of what medical care we did have; but it boils down to, Trans people being an easy target. Look at you all in the comments. I think what’s not being said overall about Trans medical and social policy in America is that Trans people are simply a classic scapegoat. A minority that the masses can be convinced to be afraid of. Approaching from that angle opens up the conversation more plainly for people not versed in the issues at hand: do you want to pile on to a minority you know little about as if your opinion about their lives matters? Or do you want to simply stand for healthcare as a basic human right regardless of gender? And the government not making medical decisions for us?

Studio Novaya

Ban the transphobes, Chris!

Mike Mariano

There are a lot of episodes that I I think "if my friends or family heard this it would change their mind about x issue". This was not that episode.

darick michael lapaglia

Thanks then I guess

Ardy Rezv

Exactly. Universal programs - which everyone here agrees on - would solve this issue idk why people are so aggressive about an issue they know people agree with them on

darick michael lapaglia

How are you reading all these comments and not see that, in fact, people struggle with what to do to help. I get being a professional but if people ask me about the issues I see in my job and possible solutions, I’m not just going to go “that isn’t my job”, it’s just stupidly antagonistic. Cool you are a journalist, but you went on a political commentary podcast, it stands to reason that you might get questions along the line of activism. Just a quick “here are some good organizations” would have been great. Way too many of these organizations are complex money laundering schemes and someone with such a deep knowledge of the topic might have an idea about which organization isn’t a scam. “Why don’t these lazy dummies already know what to do?” Is just insanely counterproductive and trivializes the real desire to help.

Nick

I won't ask you to elaborate but I'll just say that I'm glad that you survived everything that you've been through.

Adam H.

completely serious, though that was far enough in the past that (in my state) hormones weren't given to minors. not something i'm ever particularly eager to talk abt on the internet but unfortunately disclosing it is the only way people take you seriously in these stupid discussions lol

Craven Moorehead

"Middle class"?

infinitesunrise

I agree with you about the hyperbole part. Are you serious about the detransitioning part?

Adam H.

i think framing the stakes of this issue as "we're all going to die if we don't win this one battle" is extremely online behavior. when trans people inevitably don't all die, it'll makes us look alarmist at best, and completely unreliable and gullible at worst. it's the same type of hyperbole that leads zionists to say "we're not safe at NYU they want to kill us all" when really it's just not cool to be a zionist anymore. i'm saying this as someone who came out as trans at age 12 and lived full-time for 15 years before detransitioning.

Craven Moorehead

Yes, heaven forbid people ask someone who has a very thorough understanding of the issues, and possible future legislature gets asked about things people can do. I totally get what she is saying about that isn’t a normal journalist thing but you went on CHAPO which has never struck me as news or journalism. I didn’t realize Will and Felix were doing a 60 minutes spin off?! Again I do think a lot of the frustration is her framing of the interview afterwards, just doesn’t match up with what you heard.

Nick

It was the way she framed the interview, I personally thought the guys were very respectful and serious in the interview and not just “cracking jokes”. I have read her stuff for a long time and it just threw me off. Just kind of hard to listen to that interview and then see her compare it to “Don’t Look Up”.

Nick

If you raise any question whatsoever or have even the most mild criticism of anything related to this issue then you're met with shrieking accusations of transphobia. It's because something so subjective that boils down to just feelings doesn't hold up well to scrutiny and therefore can't be debated. I do believe that virtually everyone in this comment section believes in the right of trans people to exist, myself included. The question of what kind of gender affirming care is appropriate for children is something that should be discussed. Which cosmetic surgeries should and should not be provided by a theoretical universal healthcare system should also be discussed. If there is a good argument for this stuff, then it shouldn't be so difficult to make that argument and you shouldn't be afraid of being put in a situation where you need to make that argument.

Adam H.

ep content made me want to kms comment section made me want to 10x kms

etienne

comment section 10x more entertaining than the interview

Craven Moorehead

The trump administration is announcing a significant reorganization of the economy that will result in major, severe spending cuts across the board and risk the lives of more than just trans people. And democrats won’t oppose any of it. They will let it happen and probably join in many instances because they agree with the austerity measures. I don’t want trans healthcare to no longer be covered. And I don’t want the broad annihilation of the remaining welfare state in any capacity. It’s not fair that people in disadvantaged groups during moments of crisis have the burden of articulating and highlighting the specific harm that may come to them, but that is the way it is. And most of the comments on this thread are saying “hey, this guest didn’t do that.” Assuming transphobia in that sentiment is why people are just going to roll their eyes and worry about their own existential and material crisis.

Sam

Can't you just like, not care what people think, and keep it moving?

Adam Skorupskas

have you ever stopped to consider that maybe a lot of people are still at a place where they find the whole issue a bit confusing and need to have it laid out for them in a judgment free manner? and that even if you think that is, like, morally disgusting, it may be the more effective and pragmatic posture to take? I don't know how the last 8 years have convinced you that this combative "fuck you, you should already know all the facts and the proper way to talk about this" isn't just totally alienating to people. It's 1% of the population, I'm not sure you can afford to be so stuck up about recruiting your allies.

Nolan Sordyl

Robert, shut the fuck up

Sam

So unless the Democratic Party is successful then her demographic will off themselves en masse... dude we're tired of you guys lmao

Memory Erasing

Ding ding ding!!!

Sam

I think everyone deserves the care that they need to live a fulfilling and dignified existence, and that the Democrats are cowards for abandoning these people like this, but at the same time can't help but imagine how it will read to future historians to see all these, let's face it, often relatively wealthy/comfortable middle class people at the center of the empire calling this a "genocide" as their tax dollars go toward another 2,000 lb bomb to be dropped on an internment camp in Gaza

Nolan Sordyl

Most of the comments are arguing that the rich white woman shrieking incoherently in the ep about how it’s not her job to speak to anything concrete is probably not the best person to communicate on the subject. It’s wild how that gets turned into “the left has a transphobia problem”

Sam

Just a word to the wise, if your message is "there is a trans genocide, they are LITERALLY killing us en masse", but your response to people sincerely asking what they can do is "it's not my JOB to do the EMOTIONAL LABOR to EDUCATE YOU"... it starts to feel like the whole goal of the interaction was more about the public performance of your moral virtue than trying to actually materially better anything.

Nolan Sordyl

dang that post is making me think that even the "yeah, great time to do music promotion" comment in response to Will's mention of her Pitchfork nod at the top of the show was more caustic/genuinely antagonistic than I initially read it, lmao.

Nolan Sordyl

Can you imagine the head of steam when it’s powered by menopause!?!? 🚂

Des Mosome

it’s fine to give credit where it’s due. I don’t think she was looking to nominate him for any awards for being slightly less useless on it than the average media lib

Robert Aitken

Your inability to understand the obvious reality that there are trenders and enbies who undermine our credibility is why you lose.

Miquella on HRT

Cryant

Robert Aitken

are these fake trans people in the room with us now

Robert Aitken

Are you saying trans people in the 10th through 19th centuries were getting hormone therapy?

SoConfused

get fucked shithead

Robert Aitken

step in front of one

Robert Aitken

imagine how tired people are hearing from you

Robert Aitken

almost as if there’s only so many actions one can legally recommend

Robert Aitken

even back when I was far from “woke” when it came to trans issues I had a strong sense that pretty soon those jokes would be looked back on very differently

Robert Aitken

For what its worth, in my experience trans people are usually the most active, least lib, and honestly militant group of people when it comes to political action. They actually do stuff. Probably because the state has only ever punished them for their existence. So you say that they should be despised by communists, and their gender shouldnt be in the top 1000 reasons for being despised, but that means they should be despised for their gender? I dont know dude. You just come across weirdly angry here, and outside of the internet, trans people are the actual communists doing stuff. You should think about it.

Jack Harmelin

people just tried that and the dems decided it meant they were “too woke”

Robert Aitken

aye man it’s baffling she wouldn’t have more respect for this lovely audience

Robert Aitken

I’d be annoyed if had to keep justifying my very existence to people as well

Robert Aitken

Reverse transphobia? What are you even talking about, thats not even real—I am a trans woman, I work very hard as an organizer and have for a long time. I was on a chapo episode talking about a solidarity campaign around medical debt juxtaposed against my state’s insistence on banning literature and punishing queer people. We abolished 4.8 million dollars of medical debt. I am perfectly capable of listening to this journalist and understanding her perspective and criticizing it. She’s not immune to criticism. She did prescribe actions, and I disagree with her conclusions. I have read her work and think the journalistic investigation interesting, but any type of actual solution being provided is wanting, as someone who has been fighting for my own rights as a trans woman for a long time. Getting people to care about trans rights starts with solidarity, and being unable to face those facts is detrimental to our cause. My friends have been fired, made homeless, and killed for being trans and the only people who genuinely cared were other trans people like me who saw this as a systemic issue, one that democrats fail to understand and act on, especially in the southeast where we’re experiencing the worst of legislation. My experience has led me to conclude that getting people, many of which have never met a trans person, to have solidarity with trans people, and the way to do that is through broad base, solidaristic campaigns that target issues that overlap, and heightening the contradictions between our politicians who do not care about trans healthcare, reproductive care, individual liberties, privacy, and so much more. Those messages and actions have swayed people to supporting trans rights. It’s self-interest, something that one comes to understand as any kind of organizer is the only successful thing that gets people to act. Until you explain and create that connection in peoples brains, they do not act. They don’t care. It does not affect them in a way that they understand. They may give you platitudes and sympathy, but it does not materialize into serious or strategic actions. I’m not going to type out in a Patreon comment the entire strategy of months and years long campaigns, it’s more complex than rallying in the streets or writing letters or calling senators. We as trans people are hardly united to begin with, and it does fall on us because no one is going to save us unless we build mass organizations of disciplined trans people who are willing to do the hard work of organizing ourselves and organizing others to be aligned with our cause.

Mina Parkison

these restrictions will not effect cis people. in the UK they are banning puberty blockers *only* for trans kids. this purely about making trans people suffer and they’re not making any secret of it. hell there was an HRT shortage a while ago and they tried to blame trans women for taking medication from “real women”

Robert Aitken

No one is arguing that trans people are expendable.

Adam H.

don’t really “believe in leftism” if you also view some marginalised people as expendable

Robert Aitken

walk in front of one

Robert Aitken

I don’t think she likes the democrats mate. they just happen to be the only thing that can stop this legislation from going through so they need to be bullied into doing the right thing

Robert Aitken

idk I just think getting people employed on a clean efficient piece of infra that gives autonomy and freedom to people who don't own a car is maybe step 2 or 3 of doing socialism?

etienne

train good car bad

etienne

I agree that the left is not much of a political force, but a lot of people believe in leftism including both sides of almost every argument below.

Adam H.

Jael keeps appealing to the same people currently doing a genocide and expecting them to treat her group differently. Like why? Why does she and all mainstream journalist talk and write like the Democrats have any right to exist? If you can't even internalise the basic necessity that the Democrats (including the podjons) shouldn't even exist as an institution anymore then I'm not interested in what you have to say. My vitriol towards people like Jael and Natalie Wynn is because they are: 1. Libs 2. American That they are trans doesn't even crack the top 1000 reasons for why I think they should be despised by communists. You wouldn't treat a trans Nazi better just because they happen to be trans, which is my impression of the arguments that come from trans libs when they start advocating for themselves. I'm sorry but I will never give a shit what happens to Sarah McBride because she's 1. A Lib 2. An American 3. A Zionist 4. A member of the American state Her transnes doesn't factor into it one way or the other and that for Jael and people like her it does is an indictment of their politics and frankly their character.

Karim El-Hayawan

I know for a fact her comment sucked and showed a lack of understanding and an immediate defensiveness by criticizing the journalist’s lack of prescriptive action items rather than internalizing the information presented by the journalist.

Studio Novaya

Wow you are really using a lot of words to describe your perception of “reverse transphobia,” happening to you — nobody has a problem with cis people for being cis it is simply that trans people have experienced transphobia and can smell your clear non-understanding of trans issues.

Studio Novaya

“the left,” … doesn’t really exist in this country anymore, it has been effectively dismantled and all of the issues and policy priorities washed away

Studio Novaya

This comment section shows that the left is not unified on the issue.

Adam H.

I do think that way, I think illustrating shared struggles that cis and trans workers face is important. Trans workers are the same as anyone—but from my experience, a lot of people don’t see it as that way. Even trawling through this comment section the amount of vitriol imaginary trans people get is wild. Even other trans people don’t want to be around or work w cis people. I’m saying that people treat being transgender as the primary contradiction in their struggle, when it’s not. It’s an organizer’s job to illustrate that and be there to help build unity. That’s not easy and can take a lot of time because there’s not one weird quick trick for people to recognize my humanity.

Mina Parkison

Jael, enough.

Memory Erasing

If your existence depends on the political viability of the Democratic Party then nobody actually believes that or takes that serious and we want to tune that out.

Memory Erasing

She literally said “I don’t know, it’s not my job”

Sam

How the fuck can you believe in "to each according to their need" and be anti-trans? Bigotry is absolutely incompatible with leftism. Like what is the etymology of "communism" ffs

ordna jela

Since Jael had no concrete shit to say when asked, I have an idea: Mr Chapo should stop taking 5 bucks from all the transphobic assholes in these comments jesus h christ

MUNDIAL

What do you mean "an alliance between trans and cis workers?" .... Like aren't trans people just workers same as anyone? Yeah Dem and Republican politicians will happily feed any minority to the wolves, but I think anyone with sense devoted to working class empowerment would include trans people and every other minority group in the class.

Sai

What are you replying to here?

Dyyyyylan

trans people dont have to justify their existence to center right podcast subscribers. unconditional/critical support. universal healthcare.

mariol struga

You are clearly beyond saving. It's fine, we'll win without you. You don't win rights by being against the civilization that invented the medicine you use to transition. You don't win normal people that way. You're not oppressed, you're listening to chapo trap house.

Miquella on HRT

Wait, how the hell do you know she doesn't do any organizing? She posted a genuinely useful take and you're just going to jump down her throat about it? Buzz off.

Dillon Wild

The camps comment was more of a bit, but I understand this is online, if you don't know someone it can be hard to be aware of whether it's a serious or not. I think camps aren't impossible, but we probably aren't there yet. But who knows. Things continue to deteriorate and the people in power have no interest in improving things. If you're what being a "real" trans person is, then I don't want any part of it. I've seen the pain my enby friends and partners have experienced and I stand in solidarity with them. They care about me regardless of what diagnosis I receive, and I feel the same for them. Some of them have gone in for surgeries and hormone treatments, some have not, but I support them all the same. The fact that you invalidate their experience disgusts me. I confess it is hard to be calm and clear when I find your comments absolutely heinous and wretched. Your perspective fills me with genuine sorrow. You say we have to do better and be held to a higher standard, but all I see is someone who wants to continue this vile civilization and culture and receive the approval of our oppressors.

curegore

Bad bait

VAN Fan

I know, like who cares about the golden spike and the high speed rail in Cali from SF to L.A. that never was

Studio Novaya

And also so wtf why don’t you just help her out by positing your personal strategy that you use?

Studio Novaya

Cool? So you just felt like criticizing her rather than considering and thinking about some of the many very interesting political dynamics at play that she uncovered during her investigative reporting? She didn’t want to be answering that question yet Will repeated it like 3 times in pursuit of his happy ending, and now the comments are piling on about her lack of camp-counselor-inspirational-strategy vibes 🙄

Studio Novaya

I thought the interview dynamics were fine imo I'm glad Chapo gave Jael a platform to highlight her important work. It's crazy to know how unprepared/unwilling the Dem Party is for this important fight.

EXN

“Its your job to organize an entire civil rights movement around my issue” Martin Luther king jr.

Sam

She really was a champ, dealing with under prepared interviewer and total lack of creative chemistry. She got some interesting information across.

Studio Novaya

I want a proletarian revolution and universal human rights.

Sam

I would have liked for something more shut the fuck up from you

Studio Novaya

THEY GAVE HER AN ENTIRE PLATFORM TO PROPOSE ACTION AND ENGAGE IN DISCUSSION THAT WOULD ENHANCE UNDERSTANDING AND SHE SAID “NOT MY JOB”

Sam

The allostatic load of her dealing with transphobia in daily life was the direct cause of major depression, panic, and stress disorders which directly drive suicidal thoughts and behaviors— compounded by factors such as lack of qualified mental health professionals due to transphobia in the medical system and social transphobia being so pervasive that the bureaucracy regarding funding for medical and psychiatric research is severely prohibitive, or even lack of qualified medical professionals for basic needs, even when one has access to care.

Studio Novaya

I don’t mean to make fun and I understand the symbolism of the gesture but giving them 30 cents as an apology is so funny

Percy Plump

That was her just trying to get him to stop asking the same question that she said 3 times she didn’t want to answer but that he was clearly hell bent on leaving on a high note. She wasn’t serious.

Studio Novaya

You want a stronger advocate so that you don’t have to actually read? Or what? She’s a journalist who has presented us with a ton of interesting and important information. She’s not presenting herself as an organizer.

Studio Novaya

What Caitlin Jenner does is pretend like it is okay that in 2024 anyone needs to ask how to be a trans ally. So that people can continue to pretend trans people are mysterious and difficult; and that it is somehow understandable to not already know how to build solidarity. Like idk how about read her fuckin’ article before you complain and think about some of the other information she conveyed rather than obsessing about how she wasn’t quite encouraging enough to your surrogate/ leading guys who you identify with.

Studio Novaya

So your point is, we have this well researched article. For all people who are not plugged in trans rights, who would maybe use that info to help do something, they can get lost bc we are past the point where you may dare ask how can I help? Great I am sure this is a great way forward to secure life, safety and rights for a tiny minority.

christoph.s

Criticize her what? Communication skills in the podcast I listen to and pay for? Why not? I’m not criticizing her article (I read it; it’s fine), I’m criticizing the way she handled this incredibly friendly interview meant to advertise said article and discuss the important human rights issues it entails by answering questions constructed to allow her to expound upon the issues of trans rights in America.

Dean

meh the trains talk gets tiresome. upper middle class white folk issues.

Basil

I do? I organize in the south, in a deep red state, I have for 10 years. Its hard work, I don’t know why you’re thinking that I don’t have any perspective on this when I do, I’ve been doing this for a long time.

Mina Parkison

Funny how you’re able to write all of this criticism of a trans woman and not do any of the organizing you’re preaching about. That was her point. She was cringing that she was even being asked that. Trans people exist in every facet of society so if you don’t know trans people and aren’t able to take the necessary steps for inclusion and solidarity you have an overall world view problem. Not one that she can fix with a list of bullshit for you to make yourself feel better.

Studio Novaya

How can someone die of tansphobia?

Adam Skorupskas

Modern HRT for trans people is older than antibiotics. And the first known HRT was Scythians in 9th century BC (there are like 10 stupid guys asking what trans people did before 🙄

Studio Novaya

Also you can’t praise pod save and complain about libtard questions.

christoph.s

Why not explain what the law actually does in detail? It is life or death, mass suicide is in discussion. And the answer is a general do something, and if you don‘t know fuck off? This is either not serious or grossly irresponsible!

christoph.s

If anything this comment section shows that you do not have enough trans people on your show regularly.

Studio Novaya

I’m sure if you thought about it you could list 10 things yourself that you could do tomorrow to help trans people. But you won’t and that was her point.

Studio Novaya

That wasn’t what she said. She didn’t say she wasn’t going to engage in the politics of it. She clearly engaged in the politics of it by spending all of the time and energy to research and present the article. The questions were patronizing and bland. Imagine if a cis woman came on the show who had researched abortion access and they just kept asking “how do we get involved or help?” We are so damn past that was her point.

Studio Novaya

She was looking for questions about the subject matter that she had painstakingly researched and presented in her article. Not a feel-good libtard “how can we help you freaks?” type of question.

Studio Novaya

Dude. Did you read her article though?

Studio Novaya

That was the most interesting part

Studio Novaya

Idk Caitlin Jenner is a billionaire right and she represents “us,” too. Most trans women love non-binary people. Biblically. Get over yourself.

Studio Novaya

It was not “nice,” it was lazy and patronizing

Studio Novaya

Dude. This is 2024, almost 2025… and you still need to be spoon fed a script about trans rights? Go to fucking hell if there is one. Those questions were patronizing and while I usually love these guys they were drowning when confronted with the reality of their lack of understanding and lack of action regarding trans rights.

Studio Novaya

It is wild that you would find a way to criticize her and focus on petty garbage rather than read her article or think about the contents.

Studio Novaya

Some also lived beautiful, fun, and love-filled lives and just avoided the likes of you all.

Studio Novaya

Look up Scythians; HRT isn’t new. But also, you clearly just don’t like trans people.

Studio Novaya

That’s wild that that’s how you heard things. I heard him insisting uncomfortably rather than accepting her answer and asking her something different.

Studio Novaya

I didn’t think she was being dismissive of the audience. I think she was being understanding that many of you all are different from her and less informed on these issues as you are all proving. You have to accept that you will annoy the shit out of people who you have not taken any time to learn about.

Studio Novaya

Incorrect. See my comment about pregnant horse urine.

Studio Novaya

Trans. People have always been at the forefront of medicine. Trans. Women discovered that they could drink pregnant horse urine in ancient times which has been found to be a source of estrogen, for example. No, I’m not joking. Just because you are lazy and don’t read doesn’t mean that people didn’t exist and live their trans lives.

Studio Novaya

Oh lord. This is a really stupid argument that shows that you know nothing about the way that trans healthcare works now or worked in the past. The reality is that the ability for cis people to use any given form of medical care for cis purposes has never been and will never be in jeopardy. Cis women’s access to contraception is in some ways linked, but not bureaucratically only ideologically in terms of bodily autonomy. But when it comes to the bureaucracy of healthcare and the legal systems associated with it: trans people are under attack in a serious way that can’t actually be related to anything that cis people are dealing with. You actually have to just want for someone who is different from you to have access to medical care related to their differences.

Studio Novaya

Was lukewarm on our conclusion here—call your senators and march in the streets? They don’t care—they will send you down the river. Police budgets expanded in 2020, oversight boards were gutted, and people are still flooded in jails. I think what it will take is actual organizing, not pleading to the people doing the killing—they don’t like us, they are not interested in saving us. People aren’t willing to face the fact that dems do not care and haven’t ever cared about our issues. Are trans rights a winning issue at this point? Even as a trans woman I don’t think I can admit that it is. We’re a fraction of the population, deeply poor, and have little to no access to resources that would sway democrats other than begging. I think it’s time for dolls to get a lot tougher and get ready for a bumpy ride. It’s not gonna be pretty—there will be a lot of dead trans kids, and they just won’t care. I wager that most people won’t care, they haven’t yet. Until we make unions and our local organizations understand that trans rights are a red line (which is going to take a LOT of effort on our part) things are gonna get a hell of a lot worse. I believe in the chapo fans and think the hearts there. An alliance between the cis and trans working class is absolutely possible, it’s just that very few people are willing to do it. I have myriad positive examples of this in my own organizing work—you gotta be patient but it’s possible. It’s frightening now because there is no infrastructure or existing base that has made serious efforts to accomplish this unity. To my dolls: we gotta be tough, tougher than we already have to be, there’s no two ways about it. There’s a way forward and if you’re wanting it, you gotta fight for it. Live in spite of the world, live to spite it, but for god’s sake live. There are so many more worse people who deserve to die than you do. Don’t give them the satisfaction.

Mina Parkison

It gets interesting around min 43-44; It is clear most Americans don’t even give a shit about cis women. So being the queer trans person that I am I discounted the idea of them caring about me about 27 years ago. However I really lost hope in 2017 when yet another (not the first not the last) of my friends killed herself. I had known her since I was a teenager and she had survived being trans before the Internet and had kicked heroin and made it all the way through fucking grad school with a PhD in public health only to realize that there just weren’t enough trans woman medical doctors so she fucking went and got herself on her way to being able to provide direct medical care to trans people… then she went off the rails and died. She died of transphobia and that’s when I gave up hope of seeing peace or even lack of violence and lack of hate for trans people in my lifetime. We don’t give a shit if you like us. You’re fucking boring anyway. You need us though, because we have way more personal conviction and backbone than any of you jabronies. Cis people are boring as hell and jealous as hell that trans people are actually doing what we want with our lives. All of that to say that I was extremely annoyed by the questions around min 40 where you ask her to give advice about how to help or console people or whatever as if that’s possible. Many trans people continue to live out of spite; and I think that’s a reasonable strategy. And to ask what can be done is patronizing, you’re smart: and even the listeners here are smart enough to know. You know what can be done. You just don’t want to do it. We will do it for ourselves, and for you like we always have.

Studio Novaya

oof. that "not my job" shit was very uncomfortable. good on Will for throwing it back to her in a respectful but firm way

fisher ilijasic

Technique could use some work

Claire Simon

Good coverage of the issue overall but Jael's overall takeaway is somehow just as disheartening as the subject itself. "I spent a month humiliating myself for these sneering establishment dems only for them to successfully bully me out of larger politics but I guess I'm stronger now because I know things?" Sometimes all you can really do with stuff like this is just talk aimlessly about your experience but I would have liked for something more definitive from someone doing media rounds as a spokesperson for this issue.

Olive

I think the issue here is you not me. You are saying you're going to end up in camps. I'm sorry but that's clearly absurd. You should know better and it's sad you don't. And yes, minorities have been held to a higher standard. We can't change that, so we have to reach a higher standard as much as we can and prevent people from embarrassing the movement. You would really benefit from being more focused and calm and clear. Focus on the key issues, adult medical care, not nonbinary people, don't panic, and be clear about the issues that truly matter- most people aren't up for camps, but they are up for a better stance on kids and trans people in sports and less blue haired nonbinary people and radical people representing us all. That requires we gatekeep better to prevent alok Vlad menon from representing us. I wouldn't want someone like that in my bathroom either! Or teaching my kid about gender! That's normal and we should play to that. Keeping someone like that out is good. It's not bad or evil or traitorous. If you love trans people, you would protect real trans people. Finally, again, there are always crazy conservative that say wild things but realistically we are not going to camps. If you panic like that you make yourself look silly to rational people. Trump is not Hitler. And finallly part 2: it's such a sign the left is out of ideas that you are repeating catch phrases like "one of the good ones" and "we'll all end up in camps regardless" that are not relevant to the real situation we are in, where bad actors hijacked the trans label to play gender liberation, harming real trans men and women, and causing a social backlash. That's a very different problem we can respond to and fix by maturing as political actors and fighting unserious actors

Miquella on HRT

Yeah just the framing of the BlueSky and Twitter post made me wonder if I listened to the same podcast

Nick

Death Panel podcast has a recent episode on exactly this question, I recommend it

Ju .

Some conservatives and Evangelicals literally viewed AIDS as God's punishment towards homosexuals I view Harvey Milk as a good man who did good things and I like him and am grateful to him, but whatever rights we gain are in spite of the system, not because of it. Minorities throughout history have always been held to a higher standard for needing to be respectable, peaceful, law-abiding, etc all to fit in to a western, Christian viewpoint of society and how people should fit in to it, and it doesn't stop black people, Native Americans, Hispanics, etc from getting hurt and othered by the culture at large. You might be able to become one of "the good ones" but we'll all wind up in the camps regardless. But I know you will not listen to me. I know this is not a good place for debate. I know I will not convince you, and you will not convince me. It is what it is.

curegore

Some one any one do something! Weird sad tense episode. Wonder what jael looked like when see snipped at will about pod johns and wills responding face. Fast apology there. When it comes to doing something. It's just hard to get people on the same and clearly from the toxic back and forth in the comments it's probably too late to rectify differences. To much purity on the left to get cohesion. It's a very easy "movement" to fracture

billbo

Nothing, the idea of gender and sex being separate was stil accepted. Said medical transition generated prior to the a cultural change that allows for the commodification of identity

Person

“My life and people like me’s lives are in imminent danger. I’m just telling you as an FYI. Fuck you for asking how to help.” Jesus Christ is she being passive aggressive. Saying “I’m not an activist; I’m a reporter who focuses on important political events that have very specific personal relevance to me” is sort of having your cake and eating it too. She can’t claim journalistic objectivity when the focus is uniquely on matters that effect her and she shouldn’t have to, but chiding Chapo or any commenters on saying “I’m listening to YOU, someone deep into the issue, what might be constructive?” is fucking weird. I’m not even saying that it’s on her to provide a blueprint of how to proceed; maybe just name drop some organizations or current funds that *are* activists. People want to help, but there are tons of organizations and funds of all stripes that are just grifts with shady intentions out there and from her depth of research probably has some experiential insight on who is doing good work for the cause.

Dean

im sticking to battle proven, time-tested ways of doing jack fuck

etienne

What are you doing?

Vincent

well that's fair, but imo it's up to other readers to decide if it's useful knowledge to them or not. im not saying we should not stand up for trans people as their rights are stripped away. but we also don't need to treat a single state actor as the proxy for the trans community as a whole. especially when other trans folk are saying that they have their own issues with this person, including but not limited to the Palestinian question. as others have pointed out she herself is wishy-washy on the congressional bathroom ban issue. so if top-down were really the way socialists believe change is effected (it's not) she is already the weakest link in that effort. and it's not surprising given her full throated support for a genocidal apartheid state.

absoluteboi

It’s as valuable as complaining about liberal treatment of trans folks.

Ernest Ambrus

You can have left wing Trump supporters, in whatever configuration still supports leftist policies. So yes, whatever the hell Maga means.

Ernest Ambrus

So I actually posed this to Jael on Bluesky and this was the response “You know, I was on the episode myself and I do recall literally saying things to do multiple times on the episode, from calling representatives to getting in the streets, sharing on social. Pretty sure the “not my job to say” line was specifically about what people can *say* with respect to msg. If I’m reporting on Dem struggles to find a message and then insert my own preferred message, that isn’t the job of a journalist. If you disagree, then sorry, you don’t want journalism — you want activism. That’s not my job. Also, and I’m sorry, but since when must it be *my* burden to not only uncover the sordid truth about what will happen in the future but also find solutions? Sorry, but I won’t be shamed for how I carried myself in that interview. Have a nice day.”

Nick

The only thing I’m losing is my brain cells talking to you

VAN Fan

I'm not but because you can't see the difference, that's why you lose.

Miquella on HRT

But how you solve it is through material change not messaging. Universal programs uplift all.the civil rights movement looked for equal rights in material asspects not a responsed to racists.

J O T

Cush was right, the hogs really can't handle any tension or conflict on the show. Jael is fine; the post-left hate-subs need to touch grass.

M.R. Alchemist

You seem like you’re well on your way to being another Blair White, so good luck with that

VAN Fan

Social issues are material, they determine the distribution of resources. Would you argue that the social issue of racism isn't material?

Clark D'Agostino

With the way dems are buying the anti-trans shit to excuse their defeat this election, we are 100% going to see some dems switch to criticising the "Dirtbag left" for not being transphobic enough

Steeeeve

Wrong. The rights we got were won by the sympathy of her and cis people for gay people, which became popular after a vicious disease affected our community. We won by luck and sympathy. We wrote a history that valorized people who did not do alot for us. If stonewall was so good why did we get marriage rights decades later? You've been tricked by a false history wrote by armchair people that didn't really hold responsibility for any of our victories but wanted to valorize themselves Harvey milk and AIDS did more for us than anything else. I'm sorry you don't see that. Bricks did not win us rights. We won rights by being normal and relatable, not going to schools and making people panic. We don't have a good argument this is a healthcare issue anymore either because we allowed people who don't want medical care to treat dysphoria to call themselves trans. We failed by opening the tent up and letting unserious people in. This is the same mistake of occupy 08. Everyone had to be radical; everyone got a megaphone. That is why we lose.

Miquella on HRT

I disagree The rights you are clinging to were fought for and won by people of all kinds, people you would enjoy and despise, but they deserved the chance to live a life of happiness and dignity regardless of whether they were an absolute freak or a normie who just wanted to stay home and watch tv. And they all had to buck the standard system and cultural standards to achieve that. It was due to their efforts to change things that we enjoy even some modicum of a better existence. I find many reactionaries annoying, disgusting and abhorrent, but I don't want to deny them health care. They are the ones who are apparently so pissed off and upset by a fabricated strawman that they wish to take away health care that can and will result in many people killing themselves out of despair.

curegore

Pew and other organizations do not separate nonbinary and trenders and people who haven't transitioned from trans people who have transitioned and are legally, medically, and socially transgender. They have far too big of an umbrella that undermined the credibility of real trans people with real medical and social needs

Miquella on HRT

Charges/conviction is essentially a non-issue with estrogen as it’s not a scheduled drug. I can’t see a non-distribution amount of testosterone flagging that kind of response from the feds, but I suppose better safe than sorry. What you’re saying is good practice in general though.

J

That is not true. Some do, the super majority and dominant faction don't. The maga vice president has a non white wife. There are many gay Republicans and trans women at Mar a Lago. You are being a panicky liberal. That is why you lose.

Miquella on HRT

Conservatives want to get rid of gay and interracial marriage simply because they’re are hateful asshole, how stupid can you be that you think being “respectable” is what will stymie the tide of transphobia

VAN Fan

Apologies yungblood

J O T

No they would not and they did not when we were normal and assimilated. They started getting mad when we became visible and especially mad when awful people gave us bad press, like drag queen story hour. We should never have done that. We are the group failing and should be mature about that.

Miquella on HRT

Great work, Jael!

EXN

I mean, the dysphoria dissipated a lot when I transitioned like ten years ago. You're falling into the right wing bogeymen trap I think. A lot of folks want compassion and equal access for all folks; the right wingers just focus on a few issues and force everyone else to engage. Most of this shit is led by straight cis people on tv talking about us! How many debates are had where not a single trans person is present? They don't care! We could be as quote unquote normal as they want, and they would still try to take away our healthcare and ability to live an existence that isn't debilitatingly painful.

curegore

“This is an unserious issue” don’t break your hand jerking yourself off there

VAN Fan

To be clear I was agreeing with you

VAN Fan

Have you called your congressmembers about this?

HarshMalarkey

USGS in 2007 was publishing data on contamination linked to sex changes in fish. Again, not saying every trans person was just poisoned by endocrine disruptors. But *if* there's an increase in sexual characteristics getting blurred, there *might* be an environmental factor, and that should be considered because sure as hell the right will run with it. https://www.usgs.gov/media/audio/endocrine-disruption-sex-changing-fish-and-more Again, to be clear, non conforming folks have always been among us.

Woke Batou

This is just an unserious issue and the bodybuilding comparison highlights that. We are tired of it.

Memory Erasing

Trans people have existed for as long as people have existed. But HRT and what ever medical interventions are new. So whats changed? Can you still be trans without any medical intervention? If you say something as simple as these medical treatments improve the lives of trans people for xyz reasons then I think the public understanding will be greatly improved.

Sam Zeng

But the democratic party told me this show was transphobic!/s

Cami

Yah i agree my point is why are people in the comment section of a commie pod acting like neolibs.

J O T

we're reaching into uncharted territory of Slacktivism, people are downvoting the mcdonalds where the shooter was apprehended in altoona (it wasn't even an employee lol). just bravely innovating new ways of doing jack shit

etienne

Incomprehensible, why are you talking like Jordan Peterson during a benzos binge

VAN Fan

All the kushvlog radicals are grilling burgers for the families they started after Matt told them all to Touch Grass.

T

One of her prescribed “do something” calls to action was posting a black square on social media? That thing that had zero impact and is broadly made fun of? Super odd

VAN Fan

I'm hearing a lot of complaints from those "sick of hearing" about trans people. Well, so fucking what? I'm sure there are people who are "sick of hearing" about Palestine or climate change or class struggle. That doesn't mean you abandon it.

Axel Herrera

They probably think we're gross and are tired of pretending to have to care about us.

curegore

What happened to NEW RULES WITH MATT CHRISTMAN?

Justin Buell

I mean, the whole message of the Pod Save America episode was that all neolibs care about is messaging and that’s why they lose.

VAN Fan

We lose when we are annoying and stand up for bad issues like prisoners and sports and don't stand for good issues like Healthcare and anti discrimination We lose when we act like panicked liberals. This is not life or death and that's a losing message. Sorry

Miquella on HRT

I'm sorry that you don't get that most people have compassion for us and we lose it by allowing our worst "friends and allies and trans women" to represent us. I'm sorry you don't get there are good ones and bad ones and most people get that. Keep looooosing with the blue hairs! Sorry your dysphoria is so bad you can't recognize smart strategy

Miquella on HRT

I really think a lot of you write this off as a "losing issue" and a waste of time just because you flat out don't care about trans people and wouldn't mind if they didn't exist tomorrow

Jackson

I'm kinda stunned that's her takeaway having listened to the episode itself, because that's not at all the attitude I got from Will or Felix? And saying that when they went so far as to engage her on the topic and ask what can be done is bizarre, like they clearly weren't unconcerned or having her on as a sideshow and in fact we're hoping to get more material strategy on the issue from her. I think some of these comments are a bit too dismissive of her but her attitude also seems extremely closed off in a way that's not helping organize against the genuinely vital concerns she is raising

Jackson

If we banned gyms and weightlifting I do think a solid 50% of gym bros would kill themselves tbh

VAN Fan

I just don't know that's it's useful to when responding to the nauseating campaign going on in the Senate to single out the first trans woman in the house and use the opportunity to marginalize all trans people in government have to preface it with "btw she's awful also". I agree we shouldn't glorify her as an individual but I don't think it's helpful that whenever the issue is brought up a ton of progressives' only response is "well she's a Zionist so fuck her" because this reaches far beyond her and not taking it seriously because you hate the person at the center of the attack disregards the danger of the nature of the attack as a whole

Jackson

Flat out a lot of them never came out and lived very sad and closeted internal lives, or killed themselves. Ask yourself how gay people survived when sodomy was criminalized, a lot of them didn't. That's why this shit matters

Jackson

Sure hope you never are a part of a group that someone says is a losing issue

VAN Fan

Being gay is good, it was just an observation that caring about the Wicked interview cycle is gay

Simon Maraya

Yeah between McBride and this interview it’s pretty clear that any DC stooge who happens to be trans does not represent the community’s interests and ends up being actively detrimental to the rest of us

Claire Simon

Hmm…are “MAGA communists” on the left? These are the important questions. 🤔

Axel Herrera

That does seem to be the implication of what you wrote. My ‘stance on trans people’ is that they should have access to the healthcare that they need to thrive (like everyone). My stance on how to get that includes not saying dumb things like ‘being trans and weightlifting are exactly the same’.

Dyyyyylan

Stupid people conflate leftism with social issues when it has always been about class.

Ardy Rezv

Not that stupid Shanna Swan study again. Literally every claim about this goes back to it.

Axel Herrera

"so lifting weights for 30 years made me a woman?" No but I'm sure it made you feel very affirmed about your (male) gender. Who knows, maybe you even took some T

Ghordo

Many issues are losing issues, that's why they aren't winning. That's why they're getting beaten down and abused and that's why they need people to fight for them. The losing issue is how quickly you are to abandon people that need help. It is fools gold you're after. You're doing punditry.

K H

Staying fit and being trans are lifestyle choices btw ;^))))

Ghordo

@Dyyyyylan and @Chris What are your stances on trans people?

Ghordo

You’ve made ‘being trans’ equal to ‘doing anything to improve your appearance’. Your words were ‘there is zero difference’. What’s the upside to saying something so glib and stupid?

Dyyyyylan

Eric K

Being a member of the left isn’t synonymous with “morally right”. You can be a leftist and hold any number of socially regressive positions. What are you even talking about?

Ernest Ambrus

so lifting weights for 30 years made me a woman?

Chris

I’m not sure why the Democratic Party McKinsey consultant class obsession with identity forward politics keeps getting trotted out. A good universalist position is that the government shouldn’t limit any medically useful procedure at all. And mentioning how it complicates people’s lives just brings it home. Starting with “they’re trying to kill trans people” is just exhausting to deal with. Also linking trans activism in opposition to old school left values like environmentalism is making the “they/them, not you” argument for them.

Christopher Baker

479th!

Jack Gude

Okay well glad you changed? Sorry you did that

Kyletrynadip

@Dyyyyylan You telling me half the people at a gym in a given moment AREN'T there because they fundamentally don't like the way their body currently looks?

Ghordo

It's wild that that those Democrats said they won't do anything unless there's a wave of mass suicides. "We won't advocate for a group's rights unless there's even less of them to advocate for" may as well be what they said. Better yet they should've just admitted right then and there that they just side with the Conservatives. Do not humor the appeal to the notion that trans people are "just" 2% of the population. 2% of the US population is still 6 million people. That said, while I believe if you're a Leftist, we are obligated to learn and be aware of the particular political fronts out there in order to design policies around them (which would require an actionable Leftist movement that we don't have), as far as agitating and persuading the uninitiated, our rhetoric should be universal. People consistently show themselves to be more favorable of social safety nets if they're not pitched as primarily benefitting any one group of people regardless if that's just true; this can even happen in communities of said people. Let the Right care about people's genitals while we advocate for everyone's rights and wellbeing. The Left in the past years have had a real problem with engaging with the culture war entirely on the Right's terms. They're not even good at the culture war per se, they're just masters of using scapegoats to sell the stripping of rights to the general public and getting them to say "thank you" with a smile and ask for more. Most pharmaceuticals might be pushed because it's a steady source of profits but for some people, pharmaceuticals are the needed medical care. An alternate angle regarding sports and fitness is there is zero difference between transitioning and bodybuilding. They're both body-sculpting, and many gym rats exercise because they have some form of body dysmorphia. We should be ruthlessly fedjacketing the Right. Tucker Carlson is the son of a CIA member. Christopher Rufo, the guy that started the push of a lot of these social panics, is a Conservative think tank critter, all of which he was involved in were founded by business moguls and alphabet soup feds. The "dissident Right" only hates the government because they have to suffer sharing it with Liberals. They won't fight a civil war unless they can fight it like the Salvadoran Civil War. Many Far-Right leaders fantasize being hitmen killing Communists for the CIA. Regarding Mangione's politics, he ultimately doesn't matter. The message of his actions and the consequences of it should be co-opted by the Left no matter what

Ghordo

Why are they so patronizing

Chris T

that's a crazy response. this is chapo trap house not 60 minutes, what did she expect? and yeah if anything she was the one making... attempts at humor rather than the guys. how much more of a softball interview could you ask for, will was trying very hard to relate to her points but she just straightup refused to answer or avoided many of the questions. will asked multiple times "what should we do" and her answer was "i don't know/don't care enough to think of anything"

Craven Moorehead

Is this even woke? Being trans is the same as weightlifting? Are we saying that body builders will commit suicide if we don’t subsidize the gym? Try to be coherent

Dyyyyylan

whether it's germane to the main thesis isnt the point either, it's making sure that this person that was uncritically mentioned in a positive light is fully understood by listeners, especially those getting first exposure now and thinking that they are someone to align yourself with.

absoluteboi

From an alternate but adjacent angle: there is zero difference between transitioning and bodybuilding. They are both forms of body-sculpting. A lot of gym freaks exercise because they have some form of body dysmorphia

Ghordo

Look , I mean this in the nicest possible way, but people don't want to hear about it. They don't want to hear about it from the right , and they don't want to hear about it from the left.

Stu

@Lukas Kuligowski Dude in under 48 hours of that face photo getting leaked so many people were cranking out fucking fanfiction getting horny specifically over the idea of fucking a "dangerous" killer with (possibly) a huge cock. If Luigi looked like Matthew Crooks he wouldn't be getting anywhere near as much praise as he's getting

Ghordo

Many gender diverse populations who used to have more rights, more status as a result of that experience became a targeted group as a result of colonisation and the imposition of European gender norms.

UltraCoil

Suffered, just like anyone with any need that there was no way to fulfill. Of course that depends on how they were treated, I'm certainly not an expert but apparently a lot of cultures have come up with ways to handle transness besides "You're nuts, just wear what I told you to wear."

Greg Willickers

Some societies have a longer history of accepting trans people than others. Brotherboys and sistergirls in some Indigenous Australian societies for example. You didn't get the body you wanted, but you were able to socially transition in no small part because there wasn't an administrative state that you had to interface with. Hijra is a similar population in South Asia. There's a lot of accounts of people feminising or masculinising themselves across Europe as well.

UltraCoil

Here's a talking point for you that's a matter of self-interest for non trans people: HRT and other forms of gender affirming care aren't just for trans people, cis people use them all the time. If you're a cis woman, your access to hormonal contraceptives, HRT around menopause, and treatment options for stuff like period issues is deeply tied to trans people having access to these things as well. Restrictions placed on trans healthcare will make it harder for cis people to access those treatments as well.

UltraCoil

The left needs to take a cue from the NRA: don't give an inch ever. The branding, as gross as it is that we needed, is that insurance companies and federal programs won't stop at trans rights. They can decide to withhold mental or hormonal care, what's to stop them from? Not supporting a mentally ill young person or hormone care for an elderly woman who's suffering from extreme menopausal symptoms?

Eric Neal

Trans people are not 2% of the population. That is a gross exaggeration.

Miquella on HRT

I mean this sincerely: what did trans people do before medical science made any of this possible?

Creamy Goodness

I’m disappointed in this community that Luigi was a Lex Friedman head and not a Kushvlog binger.

Creamy Goodness

I did not know about that! That's wild. If she can't stand up for herself, no doubt voters will see that as a signal that she won't stand up for them either. Good luck next election!

SoConfused

Old Sleepy was right when he said transgender discrimination is the civil rights issue of our time, too bad both he and his party are both incapable and unwilling to do anything about it. Love to see this energy around covering trans issues. Personally, would prefer the show has a guest covering trans rights that seems less annoyed to have be here and address this audience she is clearly very dismissive of though.

Nick L

Yes, this was my take away too. Jael repeatedly said “Do something!”, what does that look like? They never even said call your congressperson and tell them to vote no on whatever this legislation is. They said post a square to your grid, was that a joke? I feel like there has to be a stronger advocate out there who can at the very least PodJon message on this.

Katie

Man i swear people are retarded. Idrgaf but how are leftists,who should be materialist, asking for messaging on social issue. The way you stop transphobia is fucking universal programs not amessaging response to alt right brainrot that is inchorent. Blame the trans people all you want it wont fix anything, youll just be very sad and hopefully will kill yourself so your family wont have to deal with your miserable ass. Xoxo

J O T

Thank you Chapo boys for being willing to stand up for trans peoples rights. My ex is a trans woman and I worry for her ability to access the healthcare she needs in a country hostile to her plight. I’ve lost a lot of faith in lots of so called allies who are willing to concede before even attempting a fight. It means a lot. ❤️

Ione Axelrod

Did you read her rolling stone piece?

Son of El Topo

I know what the solution is, pinish the democratic party by taking votes away from them and giving them to a third party like the greens. It doesn't mean it'll work but it's at least a step out of the gross time loop people have trapped themselves in.

Liam Quane

I first want to say that I have no prior knowlege of who this guest is. I also don't want to lump all blame on their shoulders. But I gather from thw Favreau shout out that they're BNMW self-owner? Someone who votes against their own interests because they think it's professional and grown up instead of what it is: moronic and sad. I don't mean to be a dick but this was a really frustrating interview mainly because it yet again treats the Democratic party as a "confused friend" and not what it is: an enemy of all minorities. I don't know who the guest is and I get it's scary to do interviews but I just don't get what the deal was. It was like listening to someone do everything in their power get people to actively root against them. Either that, or they believe the people they were addressing were too dumb to be of any help. The Democrats aren't dumb, they know what they're doing and they know what to do to stay in power. They sacrifice minorities and they're in turn rewarded by "good caring people" with electoral votes. That cowardly bullshit needs to fucking stop. This whole narrative needs to come to an end because it's frankly disgusting to see people cowarding out and supporting these obviously smart saboteurs. It's perfectly obvious that people are just going to do a Memento-style relapse in memory but regardless: vote third party every single chance you get in every election from now on. You also need to start telling people to do this yourself instead of hiding. Hiding just resulted in failure, again, and now trans people are in trouble because people voted for the Democrats who don't want to fight for them. Start voting Green. I don't gaf about who the leader is, you need to start filling another bucket and that's going to need people to start dropping something in the vessel.

Liam Quane

I read it more as straight up cowardice. They think they're being professional by actually being productive but they aren't, they're just being frightened in plain view. And the worse thing is they're quaking at things that aren't even dangerous: like telling people how to campaign and how they should vote. It's such a self-own. "Chapo needs to do something" and yet they actively dodged doing something on the show. I imagine that the post will be framed as "dry humour" but that's just "them trying to ctrack jokes". Boring, pseudo-professional cowardice. That's all this was. I'm cringe myself but I'm happy I don't actively get in my own way in public like that. So embarrassing.

Liam Quane

Because they aren't "the left". You can't be anti-trans and be left-wing. That's a disqualifier. The same people presumably voted for the Lethal Army loser lady too. That's a disqualifier too.

Liam Quane

Again how is this "we need to stop caring about a minority group because most of us won't be affected if they all disappear" remotely different from conservative rhetoric. You have to understand in this issue you're just being reactionary

Jackson

No you don't get it, it's ironic misogyny which is ok for leftists to do

Jackson

How is this fundamentally different than any conservative complaining about affirmative action or inclusion and diversity or whatever. Something isn't a "real problem" when it's a group you don't care about?

Jackson

One love and godspeed to you both, chapo.

Waffle Poet

I hope the things you’re worried about happen to you and I hope the vulnerability they force you into leads you to solidarity with these people

Free Palestine 🇵🇸🔻

It was even more depressing to listen to this for an hour and not just have the guest articulate one coherent point about literally anything and thank Jon favreau - famously a person who isn’t a democrat and wasn’t in any way responsible for this version of the Democratic Party

Sam

I mean I agree she sucks but she personally isn't really important in the equation so much as her just being a target to further institutionalize anti-trans policy from the top down by the right. I think her sucking is kinda a completely separate discussion

Jackson

Chapo is losing elections? Sir, this is a podcast for people who think elections are gay and only provide cover for the bourgeois dictatorship that we live under.

Sam

They aren't the problem. People are getting over the hyper focus on it. Worn out.

billbo

I think America already had their Mishima, his name is Kanye West

Alex Diehl

People with gender dysphoria that remains untreated are husks of themselves emotionally and suffer from depersonalization/derealization which can lead to suicide or just generally not caring about whether you live or die. Which ends up killing people because they aren’t getting treatment!!

Lauren Heinze

Idpol needs to be eradicated from any mass political agenda. But considering how ingrained it is in the minds of the public, it will be an uphill battle. No political project should be based on public sentiment. Because when the social bull market becomes a bear market, cynical actors will just dump you on the side of the road

Vienna

Before this episode tell me exactly how much time they have spent talking about trans people the last month. I bet you only need one hand to count the MINUTES. Fucking retard.

Serena The Doll

Boys I take back what I said earlier about this ep being bullshit because I wanted more spicy Luigi memes. I am sorry and I will no longer be a tax dodging grey wolf but a real grey wolf. Thank you for dedicating an episode to the struggles of the dolls and our tboy brothers.

Serena The Doll

I've noticed an upswell of anti-trans sentiment on "the left" as of lately. And while I also resentment the domination of political idpol, we should not single out trans people as "the problem" that's completely reactionary thinking.

Vienna

Did they somehow trick Jael into being the guest? Jael seemed pretty dismissive to the Chapo audience and oddly scattershot when trying to answer Will’s fairly straightforward questions. Jael’s post about this interview even seems passive aggressive: “went on chapo and did the whole ‘don’t look up’ thing where they try to crack jokes and I keep saying ‘no do something please or i and my friends will die.’ it was fun” Were they “trying to crack jokes”? They seemed pretty serious once the interview started and Felix started playing Ace Combat off mic

Dean

I made it through just over half of this ep. I didn't listen to the entire ep last time Jael was on. This is a real problem, but it is such a small subset of society that I feel gets for starters way to much negative coverage - which needs to be fought, countered and ridiculed. But on the other hand, the Dems have offered them what they've offered everyone else - empty rhetoric and zero real material action. It is exhausting, but I don't know what the solution is. I also lament how much time is spent talking about such a minuscule group - both the positive and negative. I find these discussions kind of alienating in a sense. Because I want better health and mental healthcare for Trans people but we want that for everyone. Their's will be a constant struggle.

Michael McKeon

My exact thought. Something secret and/or unconstitutional.

Audeamus

Thank you!

Dean

yeah but you can also at least point that out instead of gushing over them uncritically given this really big fucking issue, and same goes to the dry boys for not bringing that up and then plugging a Palestenian who was murdered by the same bipartisan cabal that mcbride is a part off. fuck you dude.

absoluteboi

Thank you.

Dean

I think bringing up the whole McBride saga and not bringing up that she is a centrist Zionist who instantly capitulated to her rights getting taken away was malpractice! A lot of trans people were justifiably pissed off that she wasn’t even willing to fight for herself and framed anti-trans discrimination as a “distraction from real important issues.” To act like McBride herself isn’t part of the problem on Dem messaging on trans issues is not telling the whole story!!

Lauren Heinze

its not enough to say get bitcoin without caveating that it is a permanent record of transactions that feds can and do trawl to get convictions regularly. you also have to learn how to use it anonymously for this to be an effective strategy that wont end up in shooting oneself in the foot down the line. you have to learn about mixers, not reusing addresses and chain hopping as well.

absoluteboi

Gone Fartin lol

Chris Rose

fuck sarah mcbride. she is a zionist pig for those who must know. i.e. anyone that even pretends to care about Palestenian rights. There's nothing progressive about throwing Palestenians under the bus to bootstrap your political career, if not an actually deeply held personal conviction. she shouldn't be attacked for being trans, but she can fuck herself as far im concerned. https://jewishinsider.com/2023/08/delaware-state-sen-sarah-mcbride-congressional-candidate-israel-transgender/ https://www.autostraddle.com/sarah-mcbride-is-a-zionist/ https://x.com/SarahEMcBride/status/1779347023415718360

absoluteboi

West Wing thing.

Kael Fischer

Rip to your dog. Sorry for your loss 😢

Ardy Rezv

Seems like you’re being pretty homophobic right now doesn’t it? To be honest we don’t really have space on the left for homophobes like you.

Ardy Rezv

My friend Devon has posts about how to get hormones from India, it’s actually fine and not illegal. @drdevonprice on Instagram (he’s a psych PhD not a snake oil dr lol)

MKatieUltra

The incel angle is so annoying, it's based on literally nothing afaict, as for "The Left is on damage control" my brother in Christ this man reignited the single payer debate, who is doing any kind of damage control??

Lukas Kuligowski

In like 2018 I digitized a bunch of videotapes of stuff I recorded in the 90s off Mtv, Comedy Central, and the like (lots of 120 Minutes and Stern); and was taken aback by how much humor boiled down to “she’s a man, baby!”

MKatieUltra

I luv u shrak

Squirt-Is-Pee

"Sean Carton" yeah ok dude. are you full of milk

RubbishBinMan

400 comments underneath an episode on trans rights...I look forward to reading all the normal takes from all the normal guys.

Douglas Wilmer

“I’m too busy doing nothing about all the other problems c’mon!”

John Swan

I really like this comment

Cameron Young

You're listening to a socialist podcast. Do you not know about solidarity and intersectionality dog?

Squirt-Is-Pee

The guest was asked three different times throughout the episode if they could offer and expand on ways in which messaging, argument, counter argument, talking points, etc could be employed to their benefit by those who don’t exactly have this stuff in their back pocket. Or those who might not be the most informed but still wish to engage and be engaged because they believe in universal rights. The closest thing to an answer provided was a thank you to Jon Favreau. Brutal. Moreover, after thanking the pod Jon, they immediately stated how what would really help is if the media would treat trans people fairly and give them the mic to speak for themselves. Ostensibly, that’s what this very interview was intended to do… Not great.

Sam

Chapo is getting brigaded, just like Hasan. The reactionaries want to prevent any left podcasts from having cultural reach.

Zen Ben

Ngl extremely disappointed that y'all don't get it. Stfu. They don't have him. They have the wrong guy!!!!!!

Michael Bailey

This stance is indistinguishable from that of every career-oriented DNC ghoul that got hoodwinked by inflating alt-right talking points. If you think someone deserves to have their rights and dignity trampled because there are bigger fish to fry, you're as useful as idiots come.

Wesley Campbell Caretto

Ok loser

broadfjord

This. It's a party of pragmatists that suck at actually doing anything successfully. They tout "wins" that get more and more meager each year, while refusing to sever themselves from the necrotic remains of the Clinton era. The threat of defeat is always treated as an existential death knell to our liberty, until it actually happens and then all the Dem leaders just prostrate on the train tracks in the name of decorum. One thing that wasn't touched on in the episode re: Sarah McBride is her completely toothless response to her dignity being stripped away from her. Civil disobedience is too much of a faux pas for our establishment loyals.

Wesley Campbell Caretto

So tired of hearing about this tiny segment of the population when we have so many fucking things to worry about.

Sean Carton

still probably would rather be an arab in rojava than a kurd/assyrian/religious minority in any other faction's territory, but sadly even rojava has it's share of war crimes and discrimination against arabs - frankly, there is no side in syria that doesn't, but the regime is responsible for over 20x more deaths than the next worst (every opposition group, local defense force, and literal bandits combined). it was the same situation as gaza: one side alone had a massive air force, amount of artillery, foreign support, and didn't care about civilians on account of being fascists. idlib was even described as an open-air prison comparable only to gaza by palestinian refugees in syria

brando

Anybody else want a “do something” or “I don’t know, it’s not my job to say” picket sign if I make extras? Stirring call to arms, that.

Chuck

It's just nice to see the recent trend of disturbed/motivated shooters aiming at politicians and millionaires instead of third graders. Hope it continues.

Timbo

The problem with that is there isn't an information void. There are plenty of people like Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson and Candice Owens who are more than happy to tell you "what to do" with trans people.

Timbo

I had kidney stones stuck to the point where I couldn't sit for longer than 20 minutes through almost the entirety of my twenties. Chronic pain will ruin your life.

Andrew Fedje, Conduit of Corn

mmmm... I think you're underestimating the number of liberals who got into that scold shit. I was into it at one point a little myself after college. Hell I tattled on a coworker one time cuz he was saying naughty words... I didn't know any better.

Sai

Beltway train likens treatment of trains to Palestinians.

Des Mosome

Listening to Chapo for years and listening to this episode just really crystallizes the resentment that's been growing in me for a while about how I and everyone I love has been so thoroughly politically disenfranchised by the Democrats managing to suck up all political air on the left side of the US's Overton Window while actually having negative worth to leftist politics due to being functionally worse than controlled opposition. It's infuriating how they manage to simultaneously be so incompetent that they can't, and also refuse to do anything meaningful to improve people's lives.

Grant Larson

Truly living up to your username with this comment. "IsN't A mAtTeR oF lIfE aNd DeAtH" jfc do you have any idea how stupid you sound saying this?

Grant Larson

Nick's Super Mario Odyssey review just became a forbidden bit.

Alexander Johnson

Who let this mentally handicapped monkey out of the zoo?

Grant Larson

I'm a normal woman and I know about gay stuff happening on the internet. Sounds like you do too 🤷‍♀️

Simon Maraya

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/24/toxic-chemicals-human-sexuality-shanna-swan/

Al

facts

Matthew

Tonight's debate: Gender affirming our trans comrades by being casually misogynistic to them-- based or cringe? (Hint: transphobia is already just a mutation of misogyny.)

Agent Grange

"You can't trade the liberation of others for your own" fuckin' a right. I remember how vehement liberals were posting that stupid trolley problem meme insisting that if you vote against the Democrats because of their endorsement of the Palestinian genocide then you're dooming trans people to a genocide too. And their horrible shrieking if you dared to tell them "the Democrats are so unprincipled and feckless they are going to enable if not endorse a trans genocide anyway." I think I speak for everyone when I say take no pride or enjoyment in being right.

Agent Grange

Here's every Felix timestamp: 0:33 2:10 24:35 29:41 51:35

Wesley Campbell Caretto

Gtfo of here chud.

HamDrawn

Why would you compare imperialist in-fighting to rocket science? These humans are both ghouls wrapped in shrouds of caring about domestic issues.

Baba booey

"immaterial democratic party" great line. Conservatives will always be better at culture war.

Woke Batou

Anyone who refers to the dems as “you” in this chat is clearly a reactionary troll. Like Chapo is fucking dem-aligned lol.

Dee Rubes

I think because Jael says there is no broad Dem response. I think she interpreted the question as what the Dems are doing rather then what she personally thinks

eduard karpoev

I mean...idk. I think they have to express clearly what they want. Presumably healthcare and bathrooms that are comfortable. People have to identify some material thing they want and how it should function. To me it is just a clear medicare4all issue. So how do we get m4a? Luigi take it away!

K H

Idk bro. Knowing it was a month ago seems pretty gay too

Ardy Rezv

It would only take like 1000 Luigis to change the country.

K H

Nazis don't get friends. Is it as bad as taking a shit in Gaza? Defending them would only be relevant if they didn't have vastly more power and influence than everyone else.

K H

I also don't think it's true, mass death is clearly fine with these demons

Simon Maraya

Better learn to make them. Because they can absolutely selectively start putting them out of reach. You can't buy revolution at a store. It's DIY(or funded by a non domestic adversary...liberate me Xi).

K H

Hammer and sickle but the backdrop is cumgutters.

K H

Please fall out of a third story window

Burger king man

Somehow the Nelk Boys episode with Caitlyn Jenner seemed like a more insightful discourse on trans issues and allyship than this was…

Davis G

You can't trade someone else's liberation for your own interests. It will always fail eventually. Whether it is 2% or 0.2% their bodies will be consumed and you will be next. It is only getting faster. The guy might be weird, doesn't make what he did less cool or necessary.

K H

It could be just one person and the issue of trans health care would still be relevant. I don’t give a shit that Jael ‘overstated’ the figures or whatever

Andrew Cross

Holding "scapes"? 1. you are an idiot 2. that was like a month ago 3. you are gay for knowing about it

Simon Maraya

They’ve been having too many women on lately. This is bullshit.

Nolan

"This they they" - you, an idiot

Simon Maraya

Came here to say exactly this

Crow Vendetta

fuck off you gross ogre

Andrew Cross

My partner started transitioning the week before the election and has been a justifiably anxious wreck since. Thanks for keeping trans people in the forefront. Fighting is the only option we have now.

Andrew Fedje, Conduit of Corn

Oh I’m not gonna defend the guest, but I will remind reactionaries of what they are

Smooth Shrek

Ambers not wrong, when you talk to people in real life outside the context of their weird little internet communities and culture war shit people are way way more accepting than you think. Like in small town America you can go have an organizing conversation and often you can change the way people think about this shit. we're all trapped in our Internet bubbles. Not everything is doom and gloom we can change things

oblong pans

Will is correct. There is a standard template for Democrats dealing with vulnerable groups. It is to torch them and use them as kindling so they can implement the exact same privatization schemes as Republicans. Trans people are finding out Democrats do not care about them. You can't trade the liberation of others for your own. Either everyone gets out or none of us do. If you ally yourself with people you know are already abandoning you after you just saw them put another group on a sacrificial altar, then you're foolish. Libs constantly ask "Why do conservatives vote against their own interests???" When literally every single Democrat voter is doing exactly that. Oh the party of betrayl for political power won't betray ME for political power. The UHC dude was doing direct action and it was more meaningful than whatever anyone here is going to learn or post about.

K H

Nothing yucky or distasteful about being trans. And they are many studies (see USGS water mission area research on effect chems have on aquatic species and their sexual presentation) that suggest a connection. Not cause, and certainly not all, but maybe a connection. Non conforming people have always been among us. But if there's a increase, there might be environmental reasons for that. And abolitionist messaging was wildly incoherent and inaccessible to normal people circa George Floyd. I've listened to several interviews where this exact exchange happened.

Woke Batou

Finally some sanity in these comments

oblong pans

Oh, give it a rest. Nobody is talking about disenfranchisement, not even Trump. Do you even know what the term means? What they’re talking about is denying them medical care. And few nonbinary people have any level of transitioning, at least in the one source I cited. None of the ones I know have done so.

Demented Avenger

I agree entirely, but healthcare is not a human right in this country (amerikkk)

Simon Maraya

Shitheads: ERM. UGH. If you think that preventing trans people from having access to healthcare would result in massive deaths then you're a totally unserious person. The same shitheads behind closed doors: LOL 40% AM I RIGHT???

Agent Grange

He highlighted what was already there. Everyone hates America's health insurance system. Across the political divide, Americans hate their healthcare system. This guy didn't shoot the guy and then make everyone Marxists. Healthcare is a class issue but I think the take away is how that's a winning issue with working folks.

oblong pans

The trans era was thought provoking and I'm sure many lasting bonds were made. But the veil has been lifted on that.

Memory Erasing

"Ughhhhh that study included non-binary people as trans too!" Like brother WHAT DO YOU THINK THE WHITE STRIPE IS FOR.

Agent Grange

Thats not “we’re all gonna kill ourselves in protest” Thats “our rights and access to essential resources will be taken away with nowhere to turn, driving a lot of us too suicide” You’re policing her rhetoric when this is her and her communities reality. Sorry her chin isnt up high enough for your standard, stfu.

Kyletrynadip

You don’t care about trans rights because you’re not trans. Try befriending a trans person or speaking with a professor with pertinent knowledge to the subject. Just because something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Maga chuds have screamed every day about gassing queer people and now they’re able to carry out their final solution.

I’mcallingbluff

1) Prison Abolitionists did have a clear messaging and response to that, you just weren't listening-- abolishing the current police and incarceration system doesn't mean an end to common security, it means replacing it with something more humane and ethnical that isn't designed to be a form of capital extraction. 2) if you're literally circulating "turning the frogs gay" propaganda about trans people being cause by chemical pollution then you are already tantamount to a climate denialist or vaccine truther. You're selectively picking what scientific studies you champion while disregarding the scientific consensus so that your idea of the "facts" just happens to line up with something you find personally yucky and distasteful.

Agent Grange

Luigi may not have listened to chapo, but one of his college friends claims he listens to cumtown

Wes

I would argue that 90% of the people who complain about the misgendering and micro aggressions do not encounter non binaries or trans people in real life at all. They’re taking a principled stance on something that hasnt happened to them yet

Kyletrynadip

I was nice of Will to ask Jael to give simple rebuttals to "balls in stalls" and the transwomen in sports arguments. Too bad she didn't and just ignored the clear question.

Kael Fischer

Common anarchist L

Claire Simon

Much more effective advice than "journalists should talk about this more." I want to like Jael but they really have a bad case of journalist / media job brain.

Agent Grange

I would add the George Jackson Brigade to that list too

Claire Simon

Nah this guest was trash. We are fully human which means we can also be cowardly libs lol

Claire Simon

Let’s see the pornhub history

Claire Simon

Leslie, Parenti and Lenin are what I tell fellow communist seeking queer folks to read. Leslie was such a treasure. Being able to clearly link queer struggles with anti imperialist/anti capitalist struggles is so important.

M

You should probably end your life big dawg I’m not even gonna lie

oats

The impetus for radical action is sensitivity. It isn't being smart or tough. You will get people making bulldozer tanks and destroying their town and dudes organizing rural peasantry for guerilla war and others that light themselves on fire. The action can form before the rationale of the action. Some people just can't take it anymore even before they can reason why, or what to do. Frequently there is almost nothing any ONE can actually do. So the result is typically at minimum self destructive. These people are necessary.

K H

Sick edge-lord vibes. You really triggered us. 👌

I’mcallingbluff

Why are there so many trolls and chuds in this comment section? How did you dorks find your way in here?

I’mcallingbluff

john fetterman! john fetterman! i'm going to ask you a challenging question.

Eon Gattignolo

Not even 2%, a fraction of a fraction of a percent. There are more albinos than trans people. This "issue" is fake and intended to divide the working class.

Joebob

Don’t kink shame, please.

Consideration Given

Awful coverage. There are fake trans people and trenders and nonbinary people that destroyed the credibility of trans people

Miquella on HRT

If it comes to fighting on the streets you are so cooked I can smell your weakness

Smooth Shrek

Really excellent discussion of the convergence of "natural law" environmentalism and right wing politics. DGR is Derrick Jensen 's organization, and it has been really interesting/horrifying to watch End Civ anarchism end up in the Purity of Essence camp

Roger Peet

My family surrounding me. Tears in their eyes. With my last breath, I say, “Look who’s cryant now”

Assbutt

On your death bed you will remember this comment and as time spagetifies for you as you approach your end all you will recall is cryant.

Clark D'Agostino

Amen. Inshallah

K H

Nah he actually has the most fratty gay guy politics. If Andy Cohen wasn’t Kamala’s plug he’d probably believe the same shit too

Claire Simon

Crossover hit

Jesse Svetlich

Oh so the party chapo listeners all love?

Jesse Svetlich

See. These are the dirty lil subs that would turn in the ceo assassin.

K H

If you get my drift

Claire Simon

Yeah fr if you live in a border town get crackin

Claire Simon

YESSSSS. Also I loved that the GLF used to march with the flags of “enemy” countries of the USA instead of pride flags. We need to bring that shit back lol

Claire Simon

You’re in the wrong place. Maybe try joining a volunteer group. Maybe in Ukraine.

Jesse Svetlich

Wouldn't it be less of a existential threat to stop pretending greek is anything but mental illness? Then they won't go through with the lifelong joblessnesz, of which they all live with their mothers. Either way they will not read or educate themselves into an approximation of sapience before the eschaton.

Clark D'Agostino

How about you kill yourself instead?

Simon Maraya

Im just saying we have gotten the closest to class consciousness for the first time in my life and it seems like chapo is completely dismissing it and moving on.

Assbutt

1) He is just some dipshit, that's what's so cool about it 2) Saying "2%" makes it a lot easier to dismiss. This is essential healthcare for 1.5 million people, and not just so they can feel pretty- they will be severely fucked over, as she alluded to towards the end of the interview

Hoople Dingbat

No. I changed it to never be referred to as “cryant” again. Lol

Assbutt

get help

mintymeetch

Fascist

brendo

Thank you fro the recomendation I will read it!

christoph.s

Op in this thread is named Bryant Williams just so everyone knows. He changed his display name because he was embarrassed lmfao what a looser

Clark D'Agostino

Adam Skorupskas

This guy's actually name is Bryant Williams, he changed his display name cause he's ashamed lol

Clark D'Agostino

Lotta people in here grasping at straws so they can justify shitting on a trans person. Sadly, not surprising!

brendo

I have a brick for you, buddy

Smooth Shrek

Kamala wasn't freidnly to the trans cause so if anything this loss is evidence of the opposite of what you're saying, but more importantly https://images.deadspin.com/tr:w-900/183ob861iy0ckjpg.jpg

Clark D'Agostino

Thank you for shouting out Leslie! Everyone should watch this https://youtu.be/yaRF0Ohb1mg?si=huJ4zO8FuddBTnB4

M

It’s not a threat of communal suicide what the hell lmfao suicides simply will occur when more people who are already treated like subhumans are treated even worse and denied the medical care that allows them to feel like themselves. If there was a surge of legislation and rhetoric that compared people in wheelchairs to subhuman perverted predatory filth and destroyed their ability to obtain mobility aids you bet your ass you’d see an upsurge in suicides from that group too. When people are plunged into a black hole of misery, sometimes they kill themselves.

Eddy

Yeah my jaw dropped. I do not know any trans people irl who don’t hate her guts lmao

Claire Simon

SOME THOUGHTS FROM ME, A TRANS PERSON: No disrespect but I think Jael is pretty feckless in this interview but I wasn’t expecting much from a former politico writer lol. I see a lot of people in this thread who clearly want to be better comrades to the trans people around them so here’s my two cents: I think one part of the larger issue is that we (the T in the alphabet mafia) as a community have not been able to form a coherent line of thought around our political and economic situation. There’s a lot of reasons for this but I do think it’s resulted in a) trans politics being arbitrarily absorbed by the HR PMC class and b) subsequent association of any kind of trans-friendly messaging with being scolded (and I think this is the seed of tying economic grievances to trans ppl in particular). I think this is an issue that we need to struggle with internally as a “community” but I think it’s important for cis people to know that we are just as varied in our beliefs, desires, and dreams as you. Most of us have the same economic frustrations as those who are pitted against us. Most of us have been fucked by the health insurance industry in some way. Most of us are far more concerned with our immediate material needs than the people around us having perfect etiquette or whatever. We have way way more in common with regular cis people than not. People have lived in contradiction with the cultural and physical expectations of their assigned sex at birth for as long as those expectations have existed in the first place. Gender variance is as natural as freckles or being left handed. If reactionaries in this country want to snuff that out, good fucking luck! If people want a good place to start for further reading, Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue by Leslie Feinberg is fantastic.

Claire Simon

ChatGPT-ass comment

Chris Rose

best propaganda of the deed = be a slammin hotty

Craven Moorehead

The fight for medical care is the broad issue that will cover both Trans people and Italians with back pain. Reactionary dupes will strain to formulate a progressivism that excludes trans people by using Republican talking points that only exist to ideologically sheath the policy of gutting health care and public schools as a whole even more than it already is. The trump anti trans ad only held any attention in the context of an immaterial democratic party. Going high when they go low only works when you have a material basis to lift you above the drooling culture war. The Dems cannot save anyone they are low inhuman vessels for capital. Also fuck John favreau, i piss on the pod johns, Sarah McBride can eat shit too, I support woke drug smuggling 🇮🇹🤌

interzoa

Overthinking it. He’s broadly on the side of anti-for-profit-healthcare sentiment, and it’s a good thing that that’s a widespread view

Tommy Goulding

first time delving into a trans episode’s comments and I wholly regret it. bummed me tf out

Peri

Dismissing the UHC shooter as some dipshit then force feeding us more trans issues that 1) Haven’t happened yet, 2) only pertain to 2% of us, and 3) isn’t a matter of life or death. This is why you’re losing elections, and people like me are checking out from trans issues. Maybe platform someone who will discuss steps to improve the healthcare that affects EVERYONE. The trans stuff can wait 5 minutes.

Assbutt

Emma Vigland I think her name is actually gave a very honest answer to that question. She said trans acceptance/inclusion is more important than fairness or safety in woman’s sports. Might not agree with it but it’s an honest take.

Ardy Rezv

chris ,, chris this slop hurts,,, its like, razors,,,

RedColonelAche

In light of new info coming out regarding Mangione's political views, Anarchists got out-propaganda of the deed'd by a weird centrist. The Left is on damage control. The Right is smugly reaffirmed that Leftists are still as ineffective as they think. Mangione's too hot for women and gay guys to overlook his politics and will read Ted K unironically. Incels will be vindicated yet again Edit: After finally getting to listen to the whole ep, Jael seems just fine. Assuming a lot of people here aren't trolling, I really don't get what people are bitching over. A bunch of points people are throwing around are things Jael accounts for one or two sentences later. Hell, she even mentions in the ep that the reason why the they/them campaign ad worked has mostly to do with the way trans people, like any minority group* scapegoated in these kulturkampf panics, are presented as being an economic burden on the majority of people, which is by far the most dangerous angle of anti-trans rhetoric. *Even if trans people really only make up 2% of the US population as people are saying the comments, that's still 6 million people. What's especially bloodcurdling about the Democrats saying they won't budge unless there mass suicides is that, by definition, they are implying that they won't take action until there's practically nobody to advocate for it, which is about as good as saying they're siding with Conservatives

Ghordo

MAGA communist. Get off the internet kid. You replied to my only joke comment lmfao. Tuck in your dick and go beat up a girl if it’ll make you feel better.

Ardy Rezv

It’s depressing to see how many comments refuse to recognize a basic, bedrock position of the left- healthcare is a human right and trans people, as human beings, should enjoy equal access to healthcare. This shouldn’t be controversial, especially on the left, but here we are. A great informative interview- I’m happy to see the show take a stand for the rights of trans people. A left that leaves trans people to die from lack of healthcare access is no left.

Isaac Suárez

Give me huge rockin tits or I’ll kms

Assbutt

It's still early days. There will be more time to get into it at trial. Hopefully the guy is not offed before then...

Miles Anderson

Saying that Sarah McBride is being attacked for being trans is not the same thing as “going to bat for her position on Israel.” You can point out that someone is being attacked by bigots and still disagree with their positions. It’s not rocket science….

Isaac Suárez

Having a strong reaction to the word "folks" is fucking bizarre, dude

Jonathan Nathan

The takeaway from this comment thread is the only good faction currently existing in Syria is Rojava

Ghordo

No one was radicalized against trans people. It didn't work. It never works. That's not what people voted on.

Jonathan Nathan

Yeah sure you can say it is not my job to talk to you find out yourself! Ok, I don't know any trans people I have talked to some on gay pride every year that is it. If you think in a live or death situation someone apporches you and ask what can I do, and you say fuck off you are not my comrade, what do you expect? This is not the catholic church shaming will not work!

christoph.s

Trans people : find a source of DIY HRT sooner rather than later just in case! Estrogen is readily available on the clear web, testosterone is harder to get but it’s doable. Get some bitcoin and read up a little. Or befriend an autist. Stay safe out there.

J

Jesus Christ, how are there still so many vestigial Red Scare fascists listening to Chapo

Jonathan Nathan

Jonathan, I think the bigger issue is how exactly we should be raising our kids around this. I'm pointing out that Will himself literally asked this question and she would not answer it. You have to be able to answer these questions.

Adam H.

"preferred identity" you accidentally outed yourself there buddy

Jonathan Nathan

Well I don't know you. So I guess that means you don't deserve rights.

Jonathan Nathan

I mean you could do that now, too.

Jonathan Nathan

I found the answer to Will's messaging question bewildering. First you point out how it is a live or death question, and then you say well messaging is not my job. Reporters should ask question though? Like wtf is it life or death or not?

christoph.s

To be fair, jay, she asked the left to take action but then refused to give any examples of what that meant.

Jonathan Nathan

Literally how does someone like you end up listening to Chapo?

Jonathan Nathan

Thank you ! I found the answer to Wills messaging question bizar. First you point out (rightly!) it is live and death issue, and then answer that hm I donn know, not my job. Like WTF.

christoph.s

Oh never mind you're the regular MAGA communist guy who pops in every time they talk about trans people as if they're people

Jonathan Nathan

I think people forgot the timeline of gay acceptance. The people pushed for equality. Leaders like lady Gaga helped energize the movement during that later bush and then Obama years. Social media specifically YouTube and facebook had initiatives in June starting around then encouraging people to come out and explore their own sexuality. LGBT culture became accepted by the public. Before the democrats and corps started putting rainbows everywhere. People need to remember no political party has our interests in mind let alone the interests of any minority. It is scary what the trump admin holds for trans people but I think we need to focus on rebuilding that community and being informed and safe. I would say this now is the time to buy guns

Justin Zuberka

M4A is intrinsically linked to the Gaza genocide and US imperialism (700+ military bases around the world paid for by our tax dollars and economic sanctions on capitals shit list). This is where Matt is sorely missed. He’s a normie American who snapped. EXACTLY!

M

holding what

Jonathan Nathan

(responding to Karl) Trans people have much higher rates of suicide: in ideation, attempts, & deaths. A peer-reviewed study from The Trevor Project published just a few months ago showed that trans suicide attempts, esp. in teens aged 13–17, increase by as much as 72% in states where anti-trans legislation is passed. Anecdotally (speaking as a trans person, in a fairly blue state too), I don’t think I have a trans friend who hasn’t at least thought about suicide bc of their gender identity. I’ve sadly also lost a number of trans friends/mutuals throughout the years to suicide, and I’m guessing other trans (or even queer) listeners in this comment section can unfortunately relate to as well.

Peri

Adam, there is no meaningful population of people afraid of trans girls in sports. They tell pollsters they give a shit because they know they're supposed to give a shit, but they don't vote as if they give a shit. There's still no evidence that transphobia has been an electoral winner and plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite. Do I have to post the ettingermentum blogs?

Jonathan Nathan

Why go on a political commentary show to discuss a politically relevant topic….only to then say it’s not your job to engage with the politics of said topic? If expressing frustration with that approach makes me a reactionary then so be it, because this guest was bullshit.

Patrick

I think jael is way too kind to the democrats. They wrote doma. Obama and the Clintons had to be dragged to the point of supporting gay rights. With the collapse of the Obama rainbow coalition the democrats are cynically throwing trans people under the bus to remind the voters and the rest of the coalition what the consequences are of not supporting new liberal decay.

Justin Zuberka

Do you think that scientists who say global warming is going to cause the sea level to rise are saying that they want the sea level to rise, or what

Jonathan Nathan

Many people recognize that a lot of fucking trans people are going to die, Craven, and that is just not fucking acceptable. Your name is perfect. Just say you don’t care about trans people, Craven.

Waffle Poet

I don't think they're aloof, I think they're just noting that he's not a communist. He's a normie American who snapped. He has syncretic and seemingly contradictory beliefs like all the other normie Americans.

Jonathan Nathan

fair enough, but as of now they've just completely ignored them both! I'm sure that on korea at least they'll have the blowback boys on (they better, given that blowback's entire thesis was validated by the coup) - hopefully on syria they get some actual syrian and palestinian activists or journalists to discuss it instead of diaspora/vacationing westerners. maybe even just read what refaat had to say about assad

brando

Hey man, if people don't know what to do someone has to tell them. You can say "it's not my job to educate you" all you want, but that just means people aren't being educated. You're right. It shouldn't be the job of trans people to educate cis people on how to help. But it is. We live in bad world.

Jonathan Nathan

No. We aren’t done with ya yet

Smooth Shrek

Great point. It’s not like the body has a total lack of sex hormones until you magically turn 18. If a teen going through puberty has a history of medically dx’ed gender dysphoria, it’s negligent and harmful to deny them at LEAST hormone blockers. Lack of HRT during the teen years is incredibly harmful to some trans teens and occasionally the catalyst for suicide

jay k.

I think you’re severely underestimating the suicide increase in the trans community in reaction to losing gender affirming care, BUT i totally agree that privacy, dignity, and personal freedom will ultimately be the only way to convince americans to stop this. Lots of cis people don’t care much about trans people in particular, but they do care about having less government involvement in our bodies

jay k.

Going to bat for Sarah McBride, a frothing Zionist, is fucking WILD dude.

Baba booey

It’s totally uncontroversial that people WILL die as a result of these policies, despite many in the comments claiming otherwise. And it will be murder when it happens. The same social murder the United Health CEO was recently found guilty and sentenced for. My issue with this guest’s analysis is this: 1. we CANNOT fight this from home. Solidarity must be embodied by people standing shoulder to shoulder, IRL, and that involves bravely getting off our couches and meeting some new people. 2. We cannot expect to push electeds with the ease of a right wing parent education council. Their goals align with those of capital, provide it with an out and a scapegoat. Our goals do not. We inevitably face more friction and cannot reasonably expect a small group could influence government in the same way.

Daniel E

“This guy is a buffoon!” Says the guy who vapes all day playing video games while making tens of thousands of dollars a month off being semi class conscious. Shit rubbed me the wrong way too.

M

Seriously, the comment section gets so triggered when chapo has a guest that isn’t an edgy doomer and actually asks the left to take action for marginalized communities

jay k.

Thank you!

Woke Batou

yeah i don't think many people will believe that there are going to be casualty figures akin to the battle of Verdun if trans healthcare goes away

Craven Moorehead

Actual action items since Jael didn't give much: -DSA has a national trans rights & bodily autonomy campaign, check it out -Tell your elected officials to protect trans healthcare and that anti-trans rhetoric will affect how you vote -Defend trans people when they get brought up (best strategy imo is the Felix method of "damn, you think about genitals and middle school girls volleyball a lot huh" -Research some of the more common talking points, focusing on trans people instead of cis perspectives. For example Parker Molloy has a great article called "fine, let's talk about trans athletes" -follow your state legislatures and find orgs in your area fighting anti-trans legislation -Help trans people in your area stockpile medication (idk much about this but it'll likely be necessary) like is done with abortion meds in red states

Tina Paracord

Who do I need to murder jael

Slik Smoothie

well basically (in somewhat more polite terms) you tell them that if they cant see past this disagreement even while republicans are activley winning the culture war then they can go suck bougie cock.

Badgrapple

That's understandable but a really difficult thing to argue for when so many people are suffering within this system already. I think people hear that statement and then think, why are they skipping the line or something to that effect when I'm barely holding it together as it is. It's sad but I feel like that's at the crux of some of the arguments for trans care.

Karl

I mean, a lot of new, relevant info has come out since their episode with PT. They didn't just do one episode on Gaza and then go, "alright, we've got that issue banked". Time moves on, new facts come to light. Some things are worth having some continued commentary. Chapo was shocked when the pro-Palestine protests became widespread throughout the US and they spoke often and passionately about it. Yet seemingly no interest in what appears to be a similar sea change happening in American attitudes towards the health insurance kleptocracy. It's just strange.

Devin Poore

Ok but my understanding is that gender dysphoria is primarily a cosmetic issue. Isn’t the whole point to present yourself—and be accepted as—another gender? Wouldn’t “passing” as your identified gender an essential part of this? And this argument does not make a whole lot of sense to me: that mobs of “woke adults” who are pushing children to transition the moment they deviate from gender norms outnumber people who “legitimately” seek gender affirming healthcare.

Jon

We call them faux leftist. Dems who are too cool for msnbc

Ardy Rezv

I think we need a Stonewall 2: Drone The Police

Antipaganda

I don't think it was facial recognition, i think it was something a lot creepier

Matelda

It's not about abandoning anyone. It's about providing a message that works in bringing people together. I support trans people and trans rights. I'm just observing an issue where even the left is divided on this.

Adam H.

the media and the politicians on both sides have conspired to force the public right on this issue, same with immigration. We can’t compromise with hate.

Meadow Green

Saying something will or may happen is not the same as saying something should happen.

Axel Herrera

Was Settlers written about this guy specifically?

Spencer

Same happened with blm

Tina Paracord

Dems presented a problem - discrimination of minorities - and, being Democrats, did nothing to materially impact the problem in any way. Their solution has been purely rhetorical, and average people can only hear the same loop of empty talking points about societal issues for so long until they throw up their hands and say fuck it, I just want to stop talking about this! Dems refusing to actually do anything and only use trans support as a thing to say instead of enacting M4A has led Americans to view trans people as an empty void devoid of action instead of human beings who deserve good jobs and healthcare.

Tina Paracord

That’s fair, but I do find it odd that a stranger recognized him from a few blurry photos where his face is mostly covered but none of his 5000 family members who reported him missing 3 weeks ago did. It kinda makes me think it was the 11th time the guy called the cops on a normal looking white guy in the past week and this time it just happened to be him.

Sam

Hi! You want children to die!

Meadow Green

oh yeah? damn that’s crazy. i think you’re a dork

danny

Late bloomers are fine!!😂😂

james

We are talking about trans people because the right wants to kill us all and a sizable chunk of the left agrees.

Meadow Green

disabled people do commit suicide frequently. maybe they should make it a political statement if theyre going to do it.

Badgrapple

Got a lot of abolitionist circa 2021 energy from the guest: whenever an abolitionist is asked directly about violent criminals who currently exist, they don't really have an answer. A lot of Americans are uneasy about transitioning children; there is evidence that environmental contamination does affect the sexual presentation of some species; on the other hand, trans M/F advantages in sports can be easily overblown and to my knowledge the advantage disappears as treatment progresses. Would be great if we got some clear messaging

Woke Batou

Abandoning people to the meat grinder because they're inconvenient doesn't feel particularly collectivist in spirit, at least to me.

G

Then how do you address the fact that so many workers are uneasy with this stuff while trying trying to build solidarity? You just call them bigots?

Adam H.

Pretty sure there are like 15 child trans athletes in this country. There are no valid concerns.

Meadow Green

I was gonna say, I know the stereotype is the she/they liberal arts major but in actual real life reality most people I know who identify as nonbinary have transitioned to some degree.

Jackson

"Nobody is actually born in the wrong body" Augusta University: Gender Dysphoria in Transsexual People Has Biological Basis https://www.gilmorehealth.com/augusta-university-gender-dysphoria-in-transsexual-people-has-biological-basis/

G

I'm not saying it's not a serious issue or that it's an issue that the left shouldn't care about, but when so many of us are here for collectivist economics, it's no wonder that there's a divide here. It doesn't make you not a "real" leftist of this isn't your big issue.

Adam H.

I don't think that's true tho. People hate the big companies that bleed us for all we're worth and kill our loved ones. That's how the people I know irl think about it. Liberal language policing (people getting in trouble at work/ having to talk to HR over pronoun "micro aggression") is the biggest driver of annoyance at the "lgbtq+ agenda" amongst regular people (people who didn't learn etiquette at liberal arts college) I know. People don't want to be told how to talk. People get shit on enough just living as workers in this system, they want to feel free to at least speak without college educated elitist weirdos whining to the boss. Maybe there's a bit of synergy between criticism of big pharma and anti-trans sentiment, but as they say in the ep: anti-trans messaging reads as bullying to normies, whereas everyone loathes every part of the for-profit health system (as evidenced by the last week).

Sai

Is it not? It's more akin to actual "child genital mutilation" than any widespread trans-affirming care

G

Yeah I think it's just probability that even if the picture isn't great, if it's blasted everywhere *someone* will see him and make the link and identify him.

Jackson

I don't think engaging "Satanic Panic"-caliber framing of trans people is an effective use of time and energy

G

I think this is a reactionary impulse, there's nothing wrong with the language just because you hear it from annoying people some times and a lot of queer people use it for a reason

Jackson

“These types of social issues” 🤨

Spencer

Love amber but I think her perspective is really influenced by her own environment and thinking this is the same as gay rights just prior to legalization. I also think she just doesn't relaize how much people who were somewhat ambivalent have been radicalized by the laser focused anti trans rhetoric of the last 4 years

Jackson

Enbies fall under the trans umbrella, my guy. Plenty of people on HRT identify as non-binary, myself included. And if you think enbies don't face similar social consequences that trans people do, you clearly don't know enough trans/gnc people

Síofra McCarthy

I did listen. He asked what it will take to get Congress to take action. She said that some important people in the Dem party are telling it that the only thing that will help are "bodies in the street or a wave of mass suicides." Her reaction to that is to say, "I don't know." She repeatedly makes reference to the idea that she and all of her fellow trans people will die if they don't get this treatment - that is a threat of communal suicide. It's right there.

Noah Mickens

Cool story, I know several trans people. I guess we need a tiebreaker to see if trans people matter.

Laura

Suicide. Same as how gay people commit suicide at higher rates when they live in hegemonic cultural opposition to their identity.

Jackson

To be clear my argument is "nobody is actually born in the wrong body and it's dangerous to tell this to children" and yes Munchausen is about controlling your kid and glorifying yourself as some brave selfless martyr on their behalf. In the 80s/90s this manifested as fake mysterious illness and in the 2020s it became something else.

Joebob

There's a lot of people that consider themselves "on the left" in the sense that they think of politics in terms of economic materialism which these types of social issues have nothing to do with.

Adam H.

I feel like both of those wouldn't be served by quickly mentioning 'btw that happened" at the beginning, both need guest to give proper focus to

Jackson

The percentage kept increasing as the pod went on! (I also want MFA, therefore am exempt from criticism)

james

Shrek i love you

Kyletrynadip

Explain yourself

Kyletrynadip

Lots of people in the chat like "why don't trans people tell me what to do", that's not what being a comrade is

HarshMalarkey

Like the part of the episode where Will asked Jael how to address concerns over children and sports and she would not answer the question.

Adam H.

There’s probably a lot of people who are and dont recognize it too. Either way you’re splitting hairs and being annoying. Write them off because of a small margin of error on one statistic?

Kyletrynadip

Also, when did you guys all hear about munchausen by proxy and decide it just means "parent gets their kid surgery". Mbp is about marginalizing and controlling your kid, not just having a fetish for them getting surgery lmfao

Jackson

Frankly it's insane that it's still legal or that any parents would do that to their kid. But also it's not even in the same ballpark as puberty blockers.

Joebob

All of your arguments are just "they'll probably get over it" which no actual trans people will validate. You think your perspective here is absolute and you need to know you simply don't understand the experience as much as you think you do

Jackson

Exactly, and that bad analysis is how our political enemies think of it, which was the question will asked

Kyletrynadip

Fr this is pushing my plans to stay in the closet much longer than anticipated

T S

There’s a lot of people in the comments of this episode or the NYT who consider themselves “on the left” (aka supporting some mild form of first worldist social democracy + a largely aesthetic dislike of the religious right) who see at as impossible for themselves to hold any reactionary positions and thus talk themselves into this nonstop paternalistic concern trolling. Go back to Jesse Singal’s blog or wherever you came from

Spencer

I understand your overall point but for a lot of people it very much is life and death, trans people have been around forever but for everyone who made it work in the 60s a lot more either spent a life of sadness or were driven to suicide. There's a material increase in death this causes and for a lot of trans people the prospect of it being made near-impossible to transition does equate to choosing death

Jackson

Obviously she wasn’t advocating to protest by suicide if you listen

Kyletrynadip

godspeed all of my trans brothers and sisters who are about to navigate this potential nightmare. you are not alone! my hope is that in the coming weeks and months an actionable plan becomes clear and i and many others can organize around it. fuck trump, fuck republicans, fuck democrats, death to america

will michel

They did an episode with pendejo time juicing the incident for its usefulness to leftism. Then they talked about the actual guy and seemingly his motives now that we know. What else do you want from your podcast? How about you go spread the good word of luigi

Kyletrynadip

What's your opinion on circumcision my guy

G

This will blow your mind but there's a lot of people outside your personal circle and they also matter

Jackson

Yup

Ardy Rezv

Buying what

G

What are those simple concerns exactly

G

Jael seemed wholly unprepared to talk about the very thing they came on to talk about. Basically, "It's not for me to tell people how to talk about this, but 2% of the population will kill itself if nothing is done." Ok?? I also find it very ironic that she said it's important that journalists ask politicians directly about this issue...yet she quit her job as a successful DC journalist with a ton of access who could've asked politicians these questions directly.

Sean

You ain’t no Aaron m8

Ardy Rezv

Not if the person is black lol. And no it can't really do it very well, it only works in the most ideal circumstances

Vincent

What?

Jackson

Splitting hairs to put down non binary people because they don't do enough to be really trans or whatever seems pretty pointless given the topic is all trans people facing federal disenfranchisement

Jackson

Yassss

Sam Zeng

Please don’t commit suicide, nobody should commit suicide

Whistle Dog

I completely agree and I think a lack of objectivity and an unwillingness to address simple concerns that the average person has is a real problem.

Adam H.

Ok man

Jackson

I get that too, and I don't mean to minimize that. I just think unfortunately that this country doesn't find those arguments convincing. I mean hell, look at Gaza.

Kyle Smyth

I’m trying to suck the guy off

Whistle Dog

Genuinely not trying to be a jerk here but by what kind of logic is political messaging on trans rights Will’s responsibility but not Jael’s? Don’t they both operate in the news media, broadly construed? That part (around 39:30) kind of threw me - am I missing something?

Whistle Dog

Could not agree more. I'd love a guest with less hyperbole and more thought out organizing tactics and points. One thing I think a lot of people would like to understand is how are people dying from being trans? I legit don't understand and also would appreciate more concrete arguments rather than broad ones that to me are pretty hard to understand as someone who wants to help but finds it impossible to talk to normies about this.

Karl

So, anyone else seen that Nancy Mace lesbian kiss video?

Snooder87

I think most leftist are perfectly fine with trans rights. What most aren't fine with is it sucking all the air out of the room. The past two years the issue has kinda subsided, gee i wonder why🤔. And now with trump back here it come bubbling up again. Trans right activist have a habit of being extremely weird. Just as weird as the transphobic discourse on the right

billbo

Dude's over here fantasizing about pudgy 17 year olds 👀

Chris Rose

Love Chapo, but their aloofness around Luigi is weird. Dude did more to raise the class consciousness in 5 seconds than this podcast has in 8 years. Yes, there's some incoherence you can divine from what is bubbling to the surface as people scour his internet presence - seemingly liking Elon while writing intelligently about the excesses of corporate power seems contradictory and it is to an extent. But this kid is also an American in his mid 20's who's been forged in the crucible of American Capital Hegemony. We all tend to go through a "we can fix capitalism" phase before enough evidence stacks up and you realize it's not really a redeemable system. Shit, I used to admire Elon too. Perhaps he was somewhere along the same journey, but he held a particular ire for the health insurance industry. I don't know. No one truly knows at this point. But nothing so far about this guy strikes me as indicating he was just a complete nutcase who finally snapped. He looks to be quite intelligent and well read. Has travelled the world a bit. Seems to have real friends. The guys just laughing him off because he listens to Huberman and Rogan in spite of the bipartisan groundswell of working class sympathy and admiration he's been getting is bizarre. Not trying to suck this guy off or anything, but when there is more Marxist sentiment getting generated in Ben Shapiro's YouTube comments than Chapo is driving... wtf guys?

Devin Poore

Pew's survey had "transgender or nonbinary" at 1.6%. Breaking that down, it has "transgender" at 0.6% and "nonbinary" at 1.0%. Whether they should be lumped together is a fair question, but since we're talking surgical care, I'd say no. Find that at Pew's site. Another question is how often these populations get that surgery. I checked "A National Survey of United States-Based Endocrinologists Who Prescribe Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy" and found that 55% of the 1.4 million transgender adults (and there are 262 million adults overall in the US, so right in line with Pew) get the hormone treatment. Checking for the surgery, I find "Demographic and temporal trends in transgender identities and gender confirming surgery" (which has transgender adults at 0.56% of all American adults, incidentally) has that at 25%, much more common for trans men, though this is 5 years old and this topic is evolving rapidly. (It also found a 25% denial rate from insurers for this care, right in line with BOTH topics for today.) Note: the exact amount shouldn't matter for treating people with dignity—it could be *one* trans person for that matter. But if you're citing numbers, make an effort to get them right.

Demented Avenger

"The only way this bill is getting blocked is... a wave of suicides" - This rhetoric is so damaging and irresponsible. Please, cousins - don't commit suicide. There are lots of people in the world with extremely serious disabilities, and other extremely difficult problems, who don't choose suicide to escape their unhappiness or make a point.

Noah Mickens

Or the french collapse for that matter. Surely they could have fit the trans interview in to one half of the show seeing as how the same exact interview already happened not long ago

Joseph Mabrey

Yeah he gets credit because he tried to get something real out of her multiple times and she just couldn't meet the moment. She was not prepared to be a guest on chapo and it's bleak that all the trans listeners just got to hear a bunch of doom from one of their own who had no answers even when there are answers to give.

Hannah

Totally agree. To Will’s credit, he’s repeatedly teeing her up for any sort of action item… I don’t understand how I can “save people from dying without leaving my house,” but the only two things I can do are “post” and “don’t just post.”

Maxwell I Deyo

It's clear by these comments and pretty much any comment section of any leftist podcast episode about trans rights that the left is not unified on this issue.

Adam H.

Wtf is this shit I came here to tell people to quit gooning and cum, not read about a bunch of losers complain about how the mssaging of trans issues made them transphobes. Quit gooning and go listen to Pod Save America instead. Trans rights are human rights, if you dont stand for that then you can be convinced to not stand for your neighbour.

Semine

Yes lots of people feel awkward and unattractive as teenagers, and somehow manage to survive without cosmetic medical procedures that have horrifying side effects.

Joebob

Uh oh, a trans episode. Gonna be a normal one in the comments.

Axel Herrera

Bad analysis to tie anti-trans sentiment to broad skepticism about big pharma, since big pharma is bad and lies constantly and does stuff like the opioid epidemic.

Sai

im pro trans because i dont think mental healthcare is real, actually. psychiatry is mostly evil. and im pretty sure our spiritual leader matt christman would agree with me.

Badgrapple

And may a pudgy 17 year-old vigilante be there to protect us 🙏🏻

Hunter

No it doesn’t. It says 1.6% Americans report as “Trans or Non Binary”— anyone can say they are non-binary without having the social consequences that actual trans people deal with

Hunter

I mean, if public suicides are needed to get Congress to protect my trans siblings, I'm ready to do my part

Síofra McCarthy

Gald to see a lot of the slop hogs aren’t buying this anymore

Ardy Rezv

If you think "just wait until they're 18" is an acceptable solution for trans kids, you don't understand the trans experience

Síofra McCarthy

Damn with this and the whole “holding scapes” interview it’s a bad week for woke

Ardy Rezv

hey man, be cool

Bryan Anes

pew research put trans people at 1.6% of the adult population, how is that unserious

cara wessel

“1-2% of Americans are trans” I want MFA but this is an unserious person

Hunter

try not being stupid

Carcosa-Commune🍉

Sounds like they wanted to be on Pod Save America but Chapo is the only place to give space and a mic. L guest

Tyler

Try not being weird

billbo

how well could your new therapy possibly be working if you have a chapo subscription?

Badgrapple

thanks for covering trans rights, it's good to remember all the people the democrats fuck over and leave to the wolves for their benefit.

Carcosa-Commune🍉

God damn, I had no idea there were chapo chuds.

Snurt

Yeah the ladder climbing/ accolades talk and scolding was getting to be a lot by the end

John wick 4

That’s a brickin’

Smooth Shrek

This they they sounds hopelessly mentally ill. “Don’t think for yourself get brainwashed, like me!”

Adam Skorupskas

thank u shrek

cara wessel

Obviously mental healthcare is real, but practically none of it involves medically altering children for cosmetic reasons.

Joebob

May every reactionary in the comment section have their head caved in with a brick 🙏

Smooth Shrek

What rights are being taken away?

Morgan

Disconnecting tax dollars from government spending in people’s minds would basically take away all republican arguments. That’s how they make every issue everyone’s business. Unfortunately, the household budget heuristic is so throughly entrenched no politician in congress can come close to messaging it effectively

Jon

I was an adult when I transitioned and HRT absolutely destroyed my physical and mental health (I have since detransitioned and am doing much better with therapy that's actually treating the source of my dysphoria instead of affirming what is ultimately a delusion). We know what anabolic steroids do to females, anyone reading this needs to look up the East Germany doping scandal, it is frankly shocking doctors are giving this to young girls. If I had been born ten years later, I would have been fast tracked on HRT as a child and I can firmly say I would be far, far worse off than I am now.

Morgan

the only biopolitically legitimate feminist position on this issue is that boys should take estrogen and girls should take testosterone regardless of identity. why do you hate women, op?

Badgrapple

Hyde Amendment for trans care, meaning any entity that provides this care can't receive federal funding. This would instantly eliminate trans care from hospitals nationwide, absolutely gutting it for the vast majority of people

Hannah

This is our equivalent to hiding boxes of Plan B for red state women

Hannah

There's an entire grey market for hormones that is extensively used and maintained by trans people with access to pharmaceutical raws and the means to cook with them. Trans people and anyone who cares about them can in fact guarantee that they cannot be deprived of their hrt provided the funds and safe storage to buy from these outlets. If you're cis and you care, find and buy stockpiles of these pills, or powders, or gels, etc. I can't tell you where but they're out there and they are a hedge of independence against hostile legislation

Hannah

What are these laws actually saying. That an adult cannot take hormones? Or that insurance or the gov can’t cover it in the case of federal employees?

Nakatomi_Jones

Yeah, I get that talking about it is much better than not but having some more solid, dare I say materialist, action items would be great. I don’t know enough about anything to say what those could be but it would be nice to hear them

Smooth Shrek

And being able to access help doesn't always make you less angry, I found a doctor who was willing to help me and am lucky enough to have a support system that can help me pay for it but all that's done is turn my personal anger into rage on behalf of people who are not as lucky. It's like survivor's guilt. Although it sounds like this guy was still in a lot of pain

sydney💜

i really appreciate that you guys have stayed so outspoken and willing to talk abt trans rights, it’s so refreshing to hear in a period of such intense reaction 🩷 thank you from a longtime trans grey wolf

nora s

I think the only path to getting niche healthcare is getting healthcare for everybody

YourBabysFather

This guy being a chronic pain guy makes 100% complete sense to me, it's so hard to get help for seemingly every chronic illness/chronic pain issue that it feels like a conspiracy. That usually drives people insane in a bad way, but this guy seems to have correctly identified the actual people at fault

sydney💜

Do another episode on this stuff and make me the guest I'll do a hell of a better job giving people talking points and real, meaningful action items that will help trans people survive and make it through

Hannah

Anyone have a problem if we follow the Scandinavian countries model on this?

Ardy Rezv

no trans person hears this framing and goes "oh boy, its okay to kill myself now". suicides will increase bc the reality of living through the misery of american life without access to the means of lessening dysphoria will drive people to end their lives

cara wessel

"do something, talk to people, you matter" as the action item for trans people and those who care about them is insanely bad. When Roe was overturned the boys were talking about how we all might find the courage to help women get banned meds they need. Where's any remotely similar advocacy here? Just talking to support groups isn't everything and even more bleak than the nightmare coming for us is the idea that the only thing we can be offered is a security blanket to cry into during the torture

Hannah

Cool 👍

Smooth Shrek

I will deny defend depose any transphobes I can.

Smooth Shrek

I don't know ac single trans person. Yet we can't stop talking about em 🤷

billbo

there is a 72% increase in teen suicide attempts associated with anti trans laws currently implemented. it is life and death. like when given the choice to aquiesce, fight, or give up, many people will just choose to give in and end it. we will frame it as life and death bc too many of us have lost trans friends close to us. that is reality

cara wessel

exactly, this framing is essentially giving people the green light to commit suicide

danny

Ggy tnthhhtu tuxhrgtggg g gghhttt gtgnMN hfff fc r ybkt f ft thr jyy yr u

dan

Well said!

Iro Kalogeropoulou

and the regime told the IDF where and when to bomb to hit hamas+hezbollah. also a good thing al-nusra hasn't existed since 2017, and it's most fanatical members were purged in the transition to HTS

brando

I take issue with the constant framing of this issue as life and death. It's overly hyperbolic and implies it's impossible for people to live out their preferred identity without hormone treatments. That's really not true as trans people have been around forever and these treatments are a modern development. A better framing is one of privacy, dignity, and personal freedom. These are things anyone can understand and identify with and have the benefit of being immediately recognizable as American values.

Kyle Smyth

no thats my response to this woman’s incredibly grating personality

danny

Every cloud has a silver penis.

TheHairyClevage

That’s your response to someone talking about human rights being taken away from trans people?

Chris B

To be honest the only possible silver lining to the Trump win might be the full stop of child gender hormones and/or surgery.

Joebob

“Trans issues, saying that was the whole election.” Democrats will really do anything to avoid talking about economic issues.

Michael

Al Nusra collaborated with Israel. They literally received medical care from them during the civil war.

Jazz Mahanahan

Thanks for doing this, and apologies for my appalling country providing a model of how to overturn a rising trans rights movement and ensure a transphobic lockdown over political parties and mainstream media despite hardcore transphobia still being a pretty unpopular position

Juliet Jacques

When Will asked her how to address the concerns about children and sports, I really wanted to hear the answer.

Adam H.

you wanna keep dying on the hill of baathism after it's been proven they were collaborating with the israeli's against hamas and hezbollah, be my guest!

brando

Some people do have that ability. I remember reading an article awhile ago about a unit of the Met Police in London that recruits people who show exceptional aptitude for remembering faces and recognizing people in person and on video.

Breakaway

I wouldn’t call America sending Isis into Syria to overthrow it a “revolution”, but that’s just me

YourBabysFather

well it's not her job to educate us... /s

Craven Moorehead

Jael is excruciating to listen to. It's been clear that the Democrats have completely abandoned legislating for marginalized identity groups in favor of corporate capital and financial interests. What is the point of them asking why they aren't doing something that should be easy? Answer: They do not want to. How long is it going to take for everyone to realize this?

Jillian Bryan

know it's kind of been a crazy week, but we couldn't get 30 seconds at the top of the episode on either the coup attempt in korea or the revolution in syria?

brando

wow bad guest. how do you go on a podcast to advocate for something, get asked how people should advocate for it, and then just say "idk dude not my job"

Craven Moorehead

Facial recognition technology can detect a humans face behind a mask or other covering

T

i wonder if she could be even more condescending and self important

danny

Nothing says genuine concern like putting a profession in quotes.

Dee Rubes

"There's a devil's advocate thing where the way to win the culture wars is to not play"? Felix, that has been *your position* for four years, and it's been broadly right! The whole theory that if you just let the Republicans freak out and point at them and say "wow, look at the weirdos and their obsession with genitals and bathrooms, huh" works, when tried!

Jonathan Nathan

Such a great discussion. Thanks also for making it free - shared this with my college age sibling and his friends who have been feeling a lot of the same frustration and fear, but don’t know what to do with it. Thank you again Jael and Chris and co.!

Jonathan Gonzalez

Yeah I think we need something better than “do something,” but still appreciated her raising this issue

Blank

🫡 I'm loving this take like 'Extra judicial killings? Can't really speak on it, but smiling?!?! Ordering Starbucks and SMILING?!🫡

ploob

Nobody recognized the shooter. That's what they're saying to keep their actual methods of finding people classified.

Matelda

Nothing?

J E S

Nice to feature a journalist knowledgeable about trans issues in the country come on a week after Amber talked out of her ass saying the median voter is probably cool with trans people so they’re probably safe.

Craig

Thanks for this interview 🥰

UwU

Oh so suddenly the top 1% is good?

Rio

Coherent beliefs? What are we, Communists?

Mountain Dew Or Crab Juice

It’s a good place to start, caring for the most vulnerable and disempowered. Kind of Christ-like actually.

Sean Enright

Is “post that square on your grid” an IG reference?

Sean Enright

Appreciate y’all having Jael back on & continuing to talk about this [esp as a trans chapohead] ⚧️❤️

Peri

We’re waiting…

Michael boughen

Thanks for this important ep, love you guys

Blank

stop being gay

kitty pavlova

thanks for always standing up for us trans people guys ❤️ it really means a lot

leonard

Jesus dude, yeah I know it's part of the joke. But usually it's at least funny. They whiffed, and I goofed on it

Alex

I’m a little pissed Jael didn’t have a political message.

Ben Ivory

Heavenly Father69

Well no one should want to find themselves in Altoona

Jonathan Nathan

Now that Assad is gone I was hoping Felix would finally tell us the Truth About Syria

Adam

This your first time listening to Chapo? That's part of the joke, and it's pretty obvious.

Jonathan Nathan

Liberal driller mentiond!

Jonathan Nathan

Always a bridesmaid, never a bride :(

Matthew

Thank you for talking about this. The abandonment of transgender and queer rights will be a black mark on this generation of legislators forever if they don't do their jobs and protect people.

Walking Bones

i believe he wanted to get caught and has more stuff planned. a yt with his name and a photo of him with a happy meal posted a video saying that he was arrested, and that more info was coming on 10/11. account has since been nuked but i have screenshots of the vid and account

Declan McNamara

Saw Ekko Astral open for Ted Leo and it was excruciating. Just the set that would not end. I'm sorry you guys missed Revolution Summer or whatever

Saying Monty Python Quotes In Lieu of Conversation

Fellas, go back and retry that cold open woof

Alex

christ if i never heard the word folks again itd be too soon

danny

Realistically the McDonald’s guy just wanted to call the cops on someone wearing a mask

Sam

You're*

Alex

Love the Luigi's Mansion sting.

Ryan

My snout descends

ArchPanda

Will’s point about how someone even recognizes the guy is what really gets me. I feel like some people have the opposite of face blindness. I have a buddy who met another (very non-de script) friend of mine for all of 5 minutes in NYC, then a few months later ran into him in a dark venue in SF and immediately recognized him even though everyone in SF looks like him.

Sam

Trans rights are human rights

Mike Loudin

It’s anti-Italian discrimination

Christian Bendillo

Yor gay

ploob

V

ploob

Thanks for doing this boys, you’ve got a lot of trans fans and we love you

Meadow Green

I'm sorry but I will tolerate no irony, slander, poking fun at or Italian discrimination against Luigi Mangione. The man is a goddamn hero end of story.

Joseph Mabrey

Felix better never find himself in Altoona or he’s going to get stabbed at the Sheetz mansion by a guy who likes Altoona style pizza and has an Asmongold esque man cave filled with Mallo Cup wrappers.

David Snoberger

Thank you for your service🫡

Joey Fazz

He was applying for a McDonald’s credit card.

Sean Enright

Poontenth

Rohmer Simpson

Hello

Brian

Ooh my swill is here 🐷 🐷 🐷

Michael B. Jordan B. Peterson

FILTH! I MEAN FIFTH!!!

Kentucky Shitlib

first!!! go team chapo !!

future man

Cool

Xander Norris

First

Matthew

Felix begins speaking at 33 seconds

Travis