Attack on Titan 4xSP1
Added 2024-06-09 00:31:17 +0000 UTCTried to get as much clear footage of hange through Youtube. I hope this is okay. RIP. =( This is just utter birlliance! Hope to be able to edit the second movie soon!
Comments
it's more like compatibilism along with determinism
Gu
2024-06-30 22:56:00 +0000 UTCI wonder if you have any thoughts on Helos, the idea of Helos, and Helos as foreshadowing for who Eren is? I say who Eren “is” instead of “became” because I personally think Eren was always the same. He is the Helos for the Eldians, a false hero that destroyed the devils of the earth. With the re-contextualization of Helos being Eren instead of King Fritz (the one from 100 years ago, not the first one from 2,000 years ago), I find it interesting to go back to the conversation Magath and Willy had in their first meeting in episode 4 where they discuss the statue.
My Toasty Toast
2024-06-22 17:16:15 +0000 UTCI think the scene with the little boy is intended to make this point.
Francois Deridder
2024-06-11 14:20:03 +0000 UTCI don't think it's pre-determined, but it's a closed timeloop which Eren has seen. But I think it's wrong to say the characters don't have agency, including Eren. Everything happens because of the choices these characters make, choices they make because of the person they are. Eren is a slave to the idea of freedom who has never really grown beyond the angry child he was, and that is what fuels the choices he makes. Just like Hange and Armin couldn't stand by and let the rumbling happen, because they're the kind of people who hope for a better solution.
Lucid
2024-06-11 13:23:32 +0000 UTCYeah, i am easily startled, but not easily scared :D
M U
2024-06-11 12:17:51 +0000 UTCNo, just took longer to render/edit
M U
2024-06-11 11:34:03 +0000 UTCThe amount of times you've been jumpscared by faces in this series is hilarious.
Hippopi
2024-06-11 11:01:08 +0000 UTCis your special 2 10 dollars?
Ice-Wallow-come
2024-06-10 02:42:21 +0000 UTCI wouldn't say Eren is actively making sure the rumbling happens. It's just the natural consequence of his actions. This point is really just a matter of perspective. Nothing is being made happen, it's just what happppens as this is the only reality there is. No different from our reality as far as we can observe it. To me, it's no different from how you couldn't have "changed" your past since it did in fact happen. It's what you ended up doing no matter what else theoretically "could" have happened instead. The "time hacks" aren't changing anything or course correcting, they're a part of one reality all the same. Kiyomi couldn't have done anything different only in the sense that she didn't do anything different. Had she done so it would've resulted in an entirely different reality of which we cannot know. There's no reason that those same events would be forced to take place by Eren or anything else, and they wouldn't because she didn't do anything different. She simply did what she did.
Phthalo
2024-06-09 23:35:10 +0000 UTCYeah, and I think it's important to note that there isn't any form of destiny or fate involved in the literal sense. Everything happens as a result of the characters choices, and are therefore responsible for their actions. Nothing is forcing certain events to take place or pushing things in a certain direction other than our characters themselves. No matter what Eren sees, he makes the choices that lead to that future on his own volition. His conflict is with himself, not his destiny. The idea of determinism does not make the present or past meaningless, since the future is still made as a direct result of the present which is yet formed of the past. It's really just the natural consequence of cause and effect. If anything I believe it doubles down on your own free will and that of our characters since it forces you to come to terms with the fact that you can't change the past, and that you only have one oppertunity to change your future, which is now. And that change comes from who/what you are, and nothing else. The only reason you can't "change" it in a sense is because there's only one reality, no world lines or what not.
Phthalo
2024-06-09 23:08:50 +0000 UTCI can't remember if it was in this video or the previous that you called this out, but I just want to second your criticism of Historia's arc (and by extension Ymir's). Since you've already seen the ending you know that Ymir basically gets brought back in a couple of almost still animations just to say "Oh, and also Ymir is here!", and Warrior Queen Historia is reduced to having the end of her "arc" being having a baby and staying silent about a global genocide.
Anna Kyruin
2024-06-09 16:47:00 +0000 UTC-His pure titan form looks like a baby bird with its long neck sticking up -When titans transform we usually get a sphere of light before they emerge as titans. When Falco transformed it looked like an egg instead
Krul
2024-06-09 15:12:50 +0000 UTCHe even said he was flying or people with swords flying around (don't remember exactly words)
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 13:32:26 +0000 UTCAh, that make sense actually, thank you!
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 13:30:32 +0000 UTCI don't think your last sentence is quite correct. If Kiyomi hadn't "bloodied her hands," most likely this entire thing would not have happened. Or at the very least things would've been substantially different. Who knows, Sasha might still have been alive. The rumbling might not have happened. Obviously, this being a closed timeloop, she was "destined" to bring Eren and Zeke together. But that doesn't detract from it being her own choices which led up to it. Kiyomi isn't an Eldian, Eren can't control her memories. Timeloop or not, it was all completely her own free will which led her to do the things that she did. Like I said, it was inevitable to arrive at where they're at, but it was all still the inevitable consequence of all their decisions, starting all the way in episode one with Mikasa - out of her own will, Ackermann's can't be controlled - spilling the beans to Eren's mom which led to him getting the basement key.
Erjon Sejdijaj
2024-06-09 13:19:43 +0000 UTCI actually think it is just the attack titan that influenced wren to the degree he never developed. The others, while influenced, were not completely subjugated to their past titan memories :)
M U
2024-06-09 11:31:18 +0000 UTCI will get more into in the commentary to your comment. :) I agree with almost all you say, but my gripe is with one person (Eren). Actively making sure with time hacks that rumbling happens. The question is this pointless. They could have not changed it AND someone made sure they could not. But yes, as I (too briefly) commented, they still have to live with their guilt. Had they chosen different, they would not have played an „active part“ and had no guilt. So the real question is not „could I have changed it“ but „could I not have bloodied my hands“.
M U
2024-06-09 10:42:57 +0000 UTCI just realized that it somehow parallels with Kenny's "being slave to something" 🤦🏻♀️
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 10:41:14 +0000 UTCI really like your discussion about Eren/Ymir regression to the child - because they got titan powers when they were children. Could you please continue this idea but on other titan shifters, they all got powers until 15 y/o? What made them not to be in a "child state" or were they "ignorant" in some way still, just not in this scale as Eren? Or maybe it even doesn't matter if someone is titan or not?
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 10:37:16 +0000 UTCI would love to have a TierListMaker Video where you rank every character on a specific quality (like is the character well written, or a tierlist where you rank your biased favorite characters etc) so you can talk about anything a bit. A watch of the specific Soundtracks(they do tell a backround thematic storyline from season1 on) and the Suite would be awesome too! Cant wait for the ending now😭 and dont want it too lol.
tris273
2024-06-09 09:56:19 +0000 UTCHmm, I don't know. Yes, he was hateful, but I don't think that's the primary factor in his character. I think it's the absence of freedom which makes him hateful, not the other way around. So his desire for freedom is still his primary character motivation.
Erjon Sejdijaj
2024-06-09 09:04:34 +0000 UTCI really can't disagree with you more on the point of determinism. Even if an outcome is "pre determined," the choices people made were still real choices they made, all with their own consideration. It's like thinking about a choice you made in the past which is affecting you now. In hindsight, that was always going to be the choice you would have made. If you went back to replay that scene in the same circumstances, where each time you would have had the same information, you would always have done the same thing. In that same way, I can argue that the world still is deterministic. After all, if there is no way to change the present, then there must also be no way to change the future's present. Does that mean it's pre determined? Does that mean that in actuality none of us have agency and our choices don't matter one way or another? That's a valid pov to have, but I just can't agree with it. Kiyomi brought Eren and Zeke together. It was pre determined that this would happen, yes, but she didn't know that. She just had her own limited information and acted in the way that she in that moment thought was best. Even without there being determinism, she would always have done the same. Armin destroying the harbor was pre determined, but it was still something he actively *chose* to do. It's the same for all other characters. Determinism doesn't rob them of their own choices, paradoxically enough. Eren (and Ymir I guess) are the only ones for whom this doesn't apply for. They *actively* know the outcome for their actions. They are actively being enslaved by the future. But still, *even* then, you can argue about their level of agency. Eren moreso, as we've seen a lot more of him. Take the scene of him manipulating his own dad. He knew it would happen. But he didn't do it *just* for that, it was still an active "choice" he made. He heard what Frieda said, saw his dad still back down, and got mad and made a rash decision. It was pre determined, sure, but it was still something he chose to do in the heat of the moment. I guess that's why I like the time travel stuff in aot this much. Characters are not robbed of their agency and can always do what they want to do.
Erjon Sejdijaj
2024-06-09 08:29:00 +0000 UTCBack in season 4 part 1, we get a lot of foreshadowing to Falco becoming a bird: - First appearance of falco is him telling a bird to fly away 4x1 - One of the marley captains ask if they have any titans that can fly in 4x2 - Ending song outro is imagery of Falco and him grasping at birds - Even his name falco - And his titan literally looks like a bird lol
skitalks
2024-06-09 07:35:28 +0000 UTCI believe Eren & Ymir being children also represents how much they still haven't changed from these child-like dreams they couldn't let go of. It's why I like that Eren regressed to a child because he's basically trying to cope with the horrific shit he is doing by going back to the most ignorant stage of his life: a child that wants to believe humanity doesn't exist beyond the walls Which is why Eren left the scouts because he stands in direct contrast with the Scouts because as Hange says herself "we can't go back to being IGNORANT island devils". As for Ymir, I like that she's represented as a child because after she overcomes her trauma and child-like dream of love with the help of Mikasa, we see her finally turn to an adult in the ending.
skitalks
2024-06-09 07:22:53 +0000 UTCI also think it's rooted in what his idea of freedom is. Eren wants the freedom of the wilderness, where you have the freedom To do whatever you want. However, humans made society to balance what people have freedom To, and what they ought to have freedom From. Freedom from regular violence, and burgling of resources, etc. Eren's idea of freedom is so rooted in his own jealousy of Armin, and what Armin could see, to begin with, before it was even further clouded by hate
Zak Moran
2024-06-09 05:44:42 +0000 UTCBack in season 1, Annie and Armin actually have a somewhat similar conversation about “being a good person” before the titan brawl in Stohess
Slurtglinger
2024-06-09 04:49:00 +0000 UTCIf he didn't kill Samuel then Conny would have made the same mistake as Jean when he hesitated to kill the girl from the military police in the carriage. Giving your enemy another chance to kill you. Especially now that Samuel has seen them as traitors and murderers of his friend Daz.
Monsi7
2024-06-09 04:38:55 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed your discussion on how Eren never grew up after getting the attack Titan.
Kevin
2024-06-09 04:37:33 +0000 UTC13:55 Finally someone who reacts to those words of Eren, I truly believe that's his real dream: The freedom to be the first to reach an unexplored world, without inhabitants, and explore to see all the lands he imagined with Armin. And it's like you say, it goes faaaaaaar beyond fucked. I really think that with those words it's revealed that Eren is a real idiot all along
Oberon
2024-06-09 04:23:41 +0000 UTCloved the reaction! can’t wait for part 2
Kabutsuji
2024-06-09 03:44:34 +0000 UTCFinally, I find it very interesting the way the show handles Eren being aware of the future, and hence being a "slave to destiny". We know that Eren has seen glances of the future but not all of it. He also seems unable to explore alternatives to the future he has foreseen. He has the choice to change his future, but everytime he reaches a crossroad, he chooses to act in the only way that is consistent with his ideas and believes. In other words, being a "slave to freedom" and being unable to compromise on his beliefs and act in a different way is what ultimately makes him a "slave to destiny."
Krul
2024-06-09 03:36:52 +0000 UTCOne of the scariest things about the show is seeing how many people identify themselves as "Jaegerist" and justify Eren's action, even after the finale. As you have mentioned time and time again, the "Jaegerist" in the show are the equivalent of all the "painter people" that we have in our world. That so many people is willing to justify his actions is terrifying, but also explains why the world keeps supporting "idiots with power". I see the finale of this show as a cautionary tale of what will happen if we keep putting hateful idiots in positions of power. I can only hope that we'll eventually stop doing that and that the fate of our world is different than the world of AOT.
Krul
2024-06-09 03:32:49 +0000 UTCEren motivations in this show are, of course, a big source of controversy, but for me it all boils down to Eren being a "slave to freedom". In 1x13 Eren said: "From the time we are born, we are free, it doesn't matter how strong those who would deny us that freedom are. Flaming water...Frozen earth...I don't care what it is! The one who sees it will be the freest person in the world! Fight! I'd willingly give my life for that" It is clear from this extract that Eren never really cared about exploring the outside world but about the idea of freedom that he associated to it. So, when he realized that the outside world was populated, he hated that his ideal of freedom was denied to him. In 4x20 he said "Rather than letting someone steal my freedom, I'll steal theirs first". That is what the rumbling is. We know that Eren cares about his friends, but at the end the Rumbling is Eren's selfish decision to impose his will and his idea of freedom on everyone else regardless of the consequences.
Krul
2024-06-09 03:21:07 +0000 UTCLoved the reaction, looking forward to the last episode! I do have a question though. I know you've said you don't like determinism as a plot device personally and, as we know Eren has seen this future, you feel like these characters thinking what could they have done differently is mostly meaningless since the story was already meant to happen this way. But since they don't actually know that the story is meant to happen and that Eren saw this future, how is it truly different from any character wondering what could happen in a work of fiction? Doesn't the fact that they are characters in a story written by someone automatically mean that their story has been predetermined once the work is published? Does that mean any time a character wonders what could have happen it's ultimately meaningless? 🤔 Just something that popped into my head as you were discussing the idea of determinism in fiction.
Johnuh
2024-06-09 03:19:24 +0000 UTCI’m sure you already know by now having watched the final episode, but determinism isn’t the best way to describe the events of the series. I’m sure someone will explain the consensus that the community has reached in the comments of the next episode. If not I’ll list some of the theories with the most evidence.
Siege XIII
2024-06-09 03:02:47 +0000 UTCIn the paths I think they feel bad for him because all seasons they were always trying to keep him safe - he was as a main weapon against pure titans, Reiner and Berthold.
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 02:35:48 +0000 UTCZeke grandparents I think we're in jail because Zeke betrayed Marley.
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 02:32:01 +0000 UTC“Then at least every nation is like a normal nation nuking each other” lol
Don Pham
2024-06-09 02:22:05 +0000 UTC1:25:20 I mean its how eren got his hardening in season 3
HAL
2024-06-09 02:17:17 +0000 UTC1:24:00 her thoughts and actions and illusion of choice were always a part of that determiend path though
HAL
2024-06-09 02:15:22 +0000 UTCI waited your cursing for last Floch appearance 😅 His words about “our devils” is so good wraps Erwin’s theme - it seems that speech totally reforged Floch after surviving Shingashina. Very good written and very hatable character :) RIP our beloved creepy scientist. Hange had a very emotional and spectacular goodbye. If you look closely, you can see that Pieck, Levi, and Rainer were not among those running after Eren. When they symbolically “failed” to catch up with him and were far behind him, they ran back to the same place where they had started, i.e. to the trio standing still. Thank you for reaction!
Aidos Smagulov
2024-06-09 02:11:21 +0000 UTC1:03:30 I mean the child was looking up to the scouts but more as a concept I guess
HAL
2024-06-09 01:54:23 +0000 UTCRIP Hanji
HAL
2024-06-09 01:48:48 +0000 UTC39:10 yeah but in a less obsessive more healthy, less suicidal way than mikasa and eren
HAL
2024-06-09 01:25:34 +0000 UTCThat pregnant woman btw mother of child in red that made you cry
puremetalcore
2024-06-09 01:20:51 +0000 UTC34:00 they'd probably run out of fuel pretty quickly, living on a ship that has to go full speed 24/7 isn't really an option without nuclear technology
HAL
2024-06-09 01:20:03 +0000 UTC29:45 he also first siad that when luring annie into the trap in season 1
HAL
2024-06-09 01:15:27 +0000 UTC24:00 if there's a weird kind of semi-deterministic timeloop that stabilized the moment he first got the attack titan then the future was determined when he was 10
HAL
2024-06-09 01:08:39 +0000 UTCI think that it is pretty clear in part 2 as well that he was not a slave to freedom but to hate. =)
M U
2024-06-09 00:51:00 +0000 UTC14:30 well at that point its not just compared to mikasa and armin but compared to an empty world which is kindof even more assholeish
HAL
2024-06-09 00:50:07 +0000 UTC14:00 there's different interpretations the common reading is that he was disappointed to learn there were evil people outside the walls which he learned at the same time he learned there were any people but I kindof like hte idea that stopping marley is just a bullshti justification he made up for himself and deep inside he just can't deal with his naive old worldview having been wrong he had that ideal of exploring a mysterious empty world when he was young after that he was fighting to avenge/defend his people but that was incidental and the nstuff got complicated at his core he might still wish to go back to that simple worldview
HAL
2024-06-09 00:48:34 +0000 UTC12:35 I mean why would you care for running away? its kinda hopeless either way, people are just panicking on instinct
HAL
2024-06-09 00:43:40 +0000 UTCI thought it was part 2 I danced in excitement :[]
daragh faro
2024-06-09 00:37:11 +0000 UTC7:00 or break open the old "could modern tech stop the rumbling" debate that used to go through the fandom
HAL
2024-06-09 00:34:25 +0000 UTC
