Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2x21 FULL Reaction
Added 2022-03-31 17:33:29 +0000 UTCHmmm did anything happen this episode? I can't remember...
Comments
1x07 titled Angel.
Lee Wilcock
2022-08-13 19:47:11 +0000 UTCYes, you worded this very well. In my view it wouldn’t instantly make him redeemed BUT it would make him capable of redemption and I feel like Angel does become deserving of forgiveness as he does hold himself accountable and he does feel guilt over his actions as Angelus, Angel himself doesn’t view Angelus as a totally different being
Nichole Hutchison
2022-04-05 22:07:11 +0000 UTCYep completely agree, Angel brooding for like 70% of his screen time would be such a waste for his character if he truly did hold zero responsibility for his actions as Angelus, this shows us that Angel himself does feel responsible and doesn’t separate himself completely, he can be forgiven over time imo but he still should be held accountable and it should be as Xander said “all is forgiven” instantly
Nichole Hutchison
2022-04-05 22:05:14 +0000 UTCBtw the blonde hair lady that turned Angel to Angelus was Darla from Season 1. It was stated in one of the episodes of Season 1, but I don't remember exactly which one.
dingus maximus
2022-04-03 02:38:47 +0000 UTCThanks for the upload! Great reaction! Just what I needed as I get through my cold! Also just wanted to add you don’t see Angel turn Dru because he first has to torment and torture her like he said happened when he first told Buffy about his past. I can’t wait for the next episode!
Samiah
2022-04-01 23:13:24 +0000 UTCThere’s definitely an episode in a later season that i feel is the best episode of any TV show ever. (Runner Up? Probably GoT 6-10, what a tour de force, I can still see Cxxxx’s smirking face every time i think of it.
Richard Lucas
2022-04-01 08:54:54 +0000 UTCI always got the feeling this was supposed to be a scene of a dream of a pencil rolling in a previous episode, but it ran long and they snipped it, not realizing it would make this later scene just a little confusing
Richard Lucas
2022-04-01 08:50:47 +0000 UTCThe "decoy Buffy away" plan is the same thing the Anointed used in the season premiere. That's why Angel says "And you fall for it every time!"
Jessica Roth
2022-04-01 07:30:37 +0000 UTCAlso, Xander's been hearing Buffy say she WANTS to kill Angel for a good long time now. (She says it to him in the teaser and he hears her tell it to Willow in the cafeteria scene,). The idea that we should just ignore everything the demon did because we can put "Angel" back in control is repellent to him. After all, we now have evidence that curses can be broken. And while, once up a time, Irish Angel was a different person from the demon, the Angel we've seen is not. He has the demon inside of him (indeed, it's what's keeping him alive), he uses it to fight, he uses his vampire senses, the demon can drive his emotions (in "Angel" he tells Buffy that he wanted to kill her) and he considers the demon's actions to be his responsibility. (He wouldn't be brooding, otherwise.) And we know that Angel's good deeds won't reform the demon; in "Innocence" Angel talked about how Buffy made him "feel like a real human being" and that was something he considered unforgiveable. So, best case scenario, all Buffy would be doing is kicking the can down the road. JMO.
Jessica Roth
2022-04-01 07:29:01 +0000 UTCOne should also remember that while it's just been a few episodes for us, Xander (and the gang) have been living in terror of Angel for over four months now. Buffy's birthday was in January and while this episode aired in May 1998. we know from the calendar on Giles's wall in "Prophecy Girl" that the school year extends into June.
Jessica Roth
2022-04-01 07:22:12 +0000 UTCHi Nichole, I wrote out my following comment and then realized it’s really similar to what you said only much wordier, so I decided to post it as a reply: While I don’t know if I would agree with Xander or not in the moment - I’m pretty introspective so I don’t know if I would’ve even been able to form an opinion yet - I believe his reaction is understandable and even reasonable although the way he expressed his feelings might not have been. I think it comes down to redemption; whether someone is capable of it and whether someone is deserving of it. Angelus, a soulless vampire, is incapable of redemption (and uninterested in it) and is therefore undeserving of it. I think for Xander that is the end of the conversation. If Angel’s soul is restored would that equal redemption right then and there? Or would that just allow him to once again become capable of achieving redemption at some point in the future? And if he does become capable of it does that automatically mean he eventually will? Is he even deserving of the opportunity to be redeemed? If we look at the questions more generally and less specifically about Angel I think they become harder to answer and would ultimately become more personal. Would I be receptive to the thought of one of my best friend’s ex boyfriend’s “recovery” and them potentially rejoining the friend group after he killed a loved one or would I think everyone engaging in the conversation was “a crazy person”?
tc3
2022-04-01 03:55:17 +0000 UTCI don't want to comment too much until the end of Pt 2, but "Becoming" is one of the best episodes of anything I've seen. (There's an episode in another season I like better for various reasons--vague enough?--but as far as the culmination of an arc... this is just perfection.) Spike said that Angel was <i>his</i> sire, but don't feel bad about getting a little twisted around on sires. It's a little muddy at this point. :D
FernWithy
2022-04-01 03:43:13 +0000 UTCRegarding the floppy disc, there probably *was* a mystical force that helped Buffy find it. Remember that Buffy has prophetic dreams. One of them probably showed her dropping the pencil and finding the disc... hence her saying "deja vu" when it happened.
ghostofdurruti
2022-04-01 03:23:38 +0000 UTCSuch a great episode! I loved all the flashbacks because to your point, I feel it really brings a richness to the characters. I also find it so interesting that Drusilla hated her abilities and prayed for them to stop, however present-day vampire Dru uses it to her advantage.
Kathleen F
2022-04-01 02:03:51 +0000 UTCOh, i didn’t realize that. Can you imagine if Dru had one day been meant to become a slayer? What a badass she would have been!!
Richard Lucas
2022-04-01 00:54:42 +0000 UTCDon’t get me wrong I do love Angel though but I don’t fully separate him from Angelus either, I can forgive a lot when it comes to my fictional characters lol
Nichole Hutchison
2022-04-01 00:11:38 +0000 UTCFun fact: Darla is the first vampire we see in the entire show - first scene of first episode. In season 1, episode 7 we find out that she "made" Angel (turned him). In season 2, episode 3, when we first meet Spike, Giles says, "He's not even as old as Angel, barely 200." Later in that episode, Spike says, "You were my sire, my yoda" insinutating that Angel helped guide/mentor him in his evil ways.
Kristin Carter
2022-04-01 00:11:29 +0000 UTCWhen it comes to Xander’s freak out moment, whilst he didn’t handle it the best I honestly can’t blame him. It’s easy for us viewers to keep a level head when it comes to the whole Angel/Angelus stuff but if we were actually in that situation and we put ourselves in the characters shoes, I think a lot more of us would be on team Xander if it were really happening to us. I would be shit scared too, fear leads to anger AND I would be really pissed over what happened to Jenny, it’s not a easy thing to forgive and move on from
Nichole Hutchison
2022-04-01 00:06:44 +0000 UTCStoked you said you were going right into watching part 2. I can't wait for next week to see what you're thoughts are on it!
Adri
2022-03-31 22:28:23 +0000 UTCI agree. I don't speak for Thor and he can decide for himself but there are no mods on here. On youtube he said that a comment describing the S2 finale as "heartbreaking" was a enough to affect his expectations so I just think that as a general rule it's best to stick to present eps to be safe.
Effie
2022-03-31 21:47:39 +0000 UTCI really hope that you continue reacting to all the seasons. It's really cool to watch the serie with you :)
Sofía Reyes
2022-03-31 21:30:37 +0000 UTCI guess it all comes down to what THOR considers a spoiler, everybody has different viewpoints and ways of perceiving, and if he considers that kind of information a spoiler, we must all respect his thoughts on spoilers and agree to abide by what should be allowed to comment and what should not be. I enjoy every person here on his patron page, we all came together because we love Buffy the vampire slayer and we love watching Thor's reactions to the show. It is understandable everybody has different viewpoints on whats considered spoilery. As a suggestion Thor, maybe there is some kind of side note you can display at the top of your patreon page that would include details to what you consider spoiler comments, so everybody can feel better about what they comment without any worries about what is said :)
Eileen Furtado
2022-03-31 21:29:43 +0000 UTCThor has mentioned before that he'd prefer not to know about the spin off since he doesn't really know if it's even a prequel or not. I think he's also mentioned that knowing about the spin off is something he wishes he never knew about because it has affected his predictions about Angel's arc in general. I would add more to explain my point but I can't. Basically anything that hasn't happened in the present storyline is spoiler territory even if it's vague.
Effie
2022-03-31 21:18:30 +0000 UTCBecoming Parts 1 & 2 are some of my favourite episodes of TV ever. Angel’s backstory is such brilliant storytelling contrasting to present day Angelus. Whistler’s voiceover at the end with slow-mo running Buffy always gives me chills. The music this episode is perfection. The stakes have never been more raised. Buffy is the show that taught me as a viewer/fan that ANYTHING can happen. It was the first show to ever truly surprise me at every turn. It prepared me for cliffhangers & characters deaths, and dark stuff going down.
Jamie
2022-03-31 21:07:55 +0000 UTCI don't see that as a spoiler at all...
Midnight Crypt Worx
2022-03-31 21:06:11 +0000 UTCGreat reaction. I cracked up a couple of times. Kendra - gone too soon. All we have left of her is Mr. Pointy :(. We also discover Dru is kinda terrifying as well in full form. Great flashbacks too. These last 2 episodes really feel epic.
Dutchkel
2022-03-31 20:43:44 +0000 UTCJessica I'd consider this comment a spoiler. I'm pretty sure Thor wouldn't like to know any info about the Angel series in general. Setting up expectations for future eps/ characters and arcs is technically a spoiler...
Effie
2022-03-31 19:54:35 +0000 UTCGreat reaction Thor! I'm so glad you've completed S2 now....This finale defined my childhood and I still have it on VHS. You were spot on about all the things that made this ep so amazing. The cinematography, the flashbacks and that epic ending with the slow motion...ahh the nostalgia! I still remember the first time watching that scene with Kendra and Drusilla. The way she died haunted me for a while because it definitely felt more cold blooded than a simple bite. I remember feeling too young for that scene haha. And I agree with you about the wasted story potential with Kendra. I wanted to see more backstory and bonding with Buffy too. It's something that bugged me even as a kid. As for Angelus...his whole backstory was the best thing about this ep. Seeing him get cursed and then hitting his low point as you said was so fascinating. My personal favourite was that scene where Buffy cries after hearing her parents fight and Angel tearing up himself because he empathised with her loneliness. They've always been kindred spirits and I think that was so beautiful. This ep and the next is just so epic and immersive....just top tier acting, choreography and directing that I personally don't see too often these days. This finale has held up after all these years and I love it! Seeing you get to this point feels so surreal but I'm so glad you enjoyed it! :) PS: Now that you've seen the origin stories and seeing that the type of human you were affects the vampire you become, I’d love to hear your theories on the type of human you think Angel was (in general) and why you think Angelus turned out to be so sadistic and cruel?
Effie
2022-03-31 19:45:10 +0000 UTCAll good. :) Admittedly, the whole sire thing becomes a bit of a retcon but that gets into spoiler territory…
Kelley
2022-03-31 19:44:24 +0000 UTCI just finished one :) yay. My reward lol
Dutchkel
2022-03-31 19:40:08 +0000 UTCThe female vampire that turns Angel is Darla, I think you remember her from season 1.
anticonstructivist55
2022-03-31 19:35:44 +0000 UTCThank you for clearing that up, I rephrased my statement
Eileen Furtado
2022-03-31 19:29:56 +0000 UTCGreat reaction! I can't wait to see the next episode!!! Btw, Spike said "YOU were MY sire" to Angel in School Hard.
Kitty
2022-03-31 19:20:44 +0000 UTCWhat a great reaction! Above, Eileen already made one of the points I was going to make about Darla being the one who sired Angel. The other point I wanted to make is the juxtaposition between the opening flashback scene in Galway 1753 and the flashback in Manhattan 1996. Both scenes take place in alleys, Angel before being turned comes off as kind of an aimless drunk who hates hard work in Galway and in Manhattan he's similarly stumbling around in alleys completely aimless. But both Darla and Whistler give him purpose in his otherwise meaningless life (for vastly different ends). In Lie to Me, Angel says that Dru was his obsession (as Angelus); that he stalked her, killed her family and made her insane before turning her into a vampire. It's a very interesting contrast to Angel, where we learn that because of Whistler, he knew and followed Buffy for a whole year prior to actually introducing himself to her in Sunnydale. Angelus sensed Dru's purity and wanted to destroy her. Angel sensed Buffy's purity and wanted to save her. There's an additional overlap with Buffy & Dru since they both share the same birthday as well.
Land Howard Johnston
2022-03-31 19:18:44 +0000 UTCOhhhhh my gosh.... Thank you for uploading this reaction. I am going to prepare myself a nice dinner, and I´m gonna watch this episode while eating it. I don´t know if you want to know, but I thought I´d share. You´re welcome :D :D
Nicologik Reacts
2022-03-31 19:13:05 +0000 UTCThe blonde "lady vampire" is Darla from S1 if you didn't recognize her. In the Buffyverse, the term sire can apply to any vamps within the same vampiric lineage, not necessarily just the person who turned you. For example, Drusilla could refer to Darla as sire because they're of the same line even though Darla didn't turn her. Angel is older than Spike and yeah, in School Hard Spike refers to him as a sire since they're of the same line. Can't wait for the next ep, this finale might be my favorite of the whole show.
Kelley
2022-03-31 19:08:33 +0000 UTCPeople definitely can be bias and have the right to. They don’t care about Angelus when he kills Jenny (which is how Xander is feeling right now), but they automatically side with Buffy regarding the same individual just because Buffy is the titular heroine. I always find myself rooting for either the antagonists or the side characters because of that issue. Now I haven’t seen his reaction yet so Im commenting based on what I usually see.
Rey
2022-03-31 18:54:52 +0000 UTCIm excited for you to get further into the series. It really grows. And my favorite story arc is spikes. If you watch the angel series they do have crossover episodes from both series so I'd use a list so you don't get spoilers. But also in reference to wanting more flashbacks you get a lot more in the Angel series for specific characters. Glad you're enjoying it! Thank you, and I'm dying for the next react. Edit: I'd like to address several comments made against my post. If Thor continues watching buffy without watching Angel he will get spoilers. I'm only recommending him to look up a cross over episode list if he plans on watching Angel. If people have an issue with the spike comment I will delete it despite that its just me stating hes my favorite character, but overall I'm keeping my comment about the cross over for buffy and Angel.
Jessica George
2022-03-31 18:49:01 +0000 UTCNah, I mean Xander has a point. People often use his crush on Buffy to negate some of his arguments, and he might have been too harsh. But like. If I was in their position I don't think I'd be too inclined to care about Angel at that point. And I certainly wouldn't want to be near him if they did return his soul lmao. But then again, I didn't really care for him much in the first place so that could just be my bias speaking 😭 Also I really wish we could have gotten more Kendra 🥺 Great reaction!
Ailish
2022-03-31 18:47:32 +0000 UTCIn "School Hard", Spike says that Angel is his sire- and like your patron "Kelley" said, Angel didn't physically turn him but because Angel turned Drusilla he then can also be called Spike's sire because he made Drusilla. Also, I don't know if you remembered from the earlier episodes of Buffy but the lady in the alley who bit Angel is "Darla" (the vampire acting as a school girl) who was working for the master, You also see Angel kill her in the early episodes (the one where buffy finds out Angel is a vampire), and Darla turns around shocked and surprised and says, "Angel?"- because she was his ex girlfriend and sire.
Eileen Furtado
2022-03-31 18:23:39 +0000 UTCOh! I have a presentation in 3 hours that I haven't really started yet but Becoming is one of my favorite episodes of Buffy. So I think the presentation can wait a little while! I'm really looking forward to your reaction here, this episode is so deeply layered and well done.
Land Howard Johnston
2022-03-31 17:46:40 +0000 UTCWork can wait.. 🤔😂😂
CeNedra
2022-03-31 17:36:04 +0000 UTCYES! I've been waiting for this the whole day. I'm internally screaming right now! I cannot wait! :)
Effie
2022-03-31 17:35:33 +0000 UTCYAY SO EXCITING!, cant wait to press play on this :)
Eileen Furtado
2022-03-31 17:34:41 +0000 UTC
