Japanese Phonetics 12 Remake (outdated link) (description edited March 4, 2021)
Added 2020-11-16 00:32:42 +0000 UTCHello, Patrons!
This episode is no longer available on YouTube. You can find the updated video for Episode 12 here:
If you have any questions or comments about the lesson please be sure to post them there. You can always use the index page to be sure you are accessing the most current lessons:
Thank you!
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Point 4 of this post was added March 4, 2021.
Bibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good evening Patrons! The revised version of episode 12 of Japanese Phonetics is live! In this lesson we begin to break down pitch-accent in i-adjectives. Specifically, we start to look at pitch-accent in i-adjectives, using high-quality native-recordings. Important things to know about this lesson:
1. If you would like to watch the original episodes 12 (edit: no longer available) or the first half of episode 13 (edit: no longer available), simply click the links in this sentence. Please note that I'll be removing the links to these original lessons from the index page to avoid confusing people who are using this series for the first time. I would encourage new learners not to watch past 3:02 of episode 13, as I'll be remaking this section of the series (pitch-accent in heiban i-adjectives) fairly soon with potentially new information.
2. As usual, please use the native recordings in this lesson for active listening, rather than my recordings. There are a few bits where I say certain Japanese words to explain a rule, but when practicing listening or shadowing, please wait until the longer section with many native recordings, as these recordings will always be better than my own.
3. The least mainstream pronunciation used in this video is the さ form of three mora downstep i-adjectives (i.e.うまさ). While every other pronunciation used in this video is listed in official Japanese pitch-accent dictionaries, such as the Shinmeikai Accent Dictionary, or the NHK Accent Dictionary, this form is not. In these resources, the downstep shifts back one mora, as in Umasa, rather than uMAsa (I use the latter in this video). However, based on the conversation I had with a native speaker who has gone through the NHK Pitch-accent Training School, it seems that there are native speakers in the greater Tokyo region that do use uMAsa, so I opted to go with this pronunciation, as it enables Japanese learners to greatly simplify the rules surrounding downstep i-adjectives. I believe that over time uMAsa will become more mainstream, and I would encourage learners not to worry about whether or not this is the technically correct pronunciation. If you're new to pitch-accent, I think it's best to simply stick with the two rules outlined in this video, and to be aware that you'll sometimes hear other pronunciations in everyday speech (for some of the other conjugations as well, but especially for this さ form of three mora downstep i-adjectives).
4. (This section added March 4, 2021). I just wanted to let everyone know that while the newest version of the NHK Accent dictionary verifies it's 100% acceptable to say the く form of downstep i-adjectives in the way I explain in this video, one native speaker I have been speaking with recently has told me they find this pronunciation a bit odd, and that they almost always use the 'traditional' pronunciation I cover in the original version of lesson 12 (linked above in this post), especially in compounds such as うまくない and あつくなる. I'll be talking more about this in the upcoming remake of lesson 16—again just wanted to give everyone a heads up!
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. I'll be responding to all comments (including those from other posts) and messages in the next few days. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dōgen
Comments
Indeed, with the さ form most speakers tend to go with the 'traditional' pronunciation, as listed in point three of the written part of the above post. Cheers!
Dogen
2021-04-25 11:26:07 +0000 UTCSomething interesting I noticed is that if you listen to Skent's recordings on Forvo of 白く, 白くて, and 白ければ, they seem to follow the new pattern, but his recording of 白さ follows the old pattern (shifting back one mora).
kusterdu
2021-04-24 17:48:37 +0000 UTCHi Lukas! Great question. I think that it's totally fine to use both, as they are both considered correct, and I feel that some natives even use both. I would, however, do what you mentioned in sticking to one pattern per word such that you're not thinking about it too much during speech. Probably best to drill just a bit! Hope this helps, cheers!
Dogen
2021-04-04 04:07:53 +0000 UTCHey Dogen, thanks for the great video! It definitely cleared up some conflicting examples of pitch accent I've heard! I'd have one question, however. I seem to follow the "the accent moves back by one mora" rule for 3 mora downstep i-adjectives for some, while there are other instances where I seem to prefer/follow the "the accent goes back by one mora" rule. An example for this would be that I find Umakatta to sound kind of weird and novel, while uMAkatta seems familiar and "correct" to me, so to say, but cenversely prefer SAmukatta over saMUkatta. This is also the case for 高い、近い、やばい (accent stays in one place) and 安い、白い、暑い (moves back by one mora). I can make some sense of why this may be, namely that I may have heard one form of conjugating a certain i-adjective more often than the other, subconsciously adopting the pattern that doesn't have the accent on a devoiced mora, and adopting the one that is more easily understandable/utterable (TAkakatta seems more difficult than taKAkatta since the "ka" s are more easily differentiated from one another). But ultimately my question is the following: What are your thoughts on this, and would you recommend one to commit to one rule for all 3 mora downstep i-adjectives and their conjugations in oder to avoid sounding fragmented, or do you think it's perfectly fine to make use of both, provided one does so consistently and sticks to a certain pitch accent pattern for specific adjectives and their respective conjugations, e.g. always saying both taKAkatta and YAsukte? Sorry for the massive block of text, but thank you very much in advance!
Lukas Treuer
2021-04-03 14:40:05 +0000 UTCHi Yoshiki. This is a great question. In my experience 時 is typically 尾高 when it is said without a modifier, and 頭高, when it is, as in 日本に来た時. That said, this is based on anecdotal evidence, and I actually haven't found any information on this in the resources that I use, so I can't speak with too much conviction on this particular issue. Apologies for that, and good luck with your future studies!
Dogen
2020-12-12 05:22:17 +0000 UTCHello Dogen, Thanks for your detailed explanations in this video. I have got a question about the accent of 「時」recently. The accent of 「時」is ② on 大辞林 and NHK日本語発音アクセント辞典, but I have heard many times that Japanese people pronounce「時」as ①, is this possible? お願い致します🙏
YoShiki Sou
2020-12-10 06:32:49 +0000 UTCHi! This does occasionally happen in very emphasized or excited speech, but it's hard to tell without actually hearing a clip. That said, these words can certainly be said with different pitch-patterns if the speaker is using a non-standard dialect. Incidentally, I talk more about how intonation affects pitch (albeit at a very basic level) in lessons 25 to 29, particularly lesson 29, which can be accessed here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/japanese-index-16489306 Hopefully this answers your question! PS: it's possible that they are said with little change in pitch if they're being said in the non-emphasized part of the sentence, as I explain in lesson 29! Cheers.
Dogen
2020-11-23 04:23:59 +0000 UTCGreat video! Perhaps you cover this later in the series, but I was wondering if the intonation of excitement can shift 中高 i-adjectives into 平板 for words like 可愛い, うまい, 美味しい, 気持ちいい, etc. when used in isolation (i.e not in a sentence)? I often hear these said in an excited reaction with an intonation where the down step is either not present or not very noticeable, although perhaps it’s just my ear. Curious to hear your thoughts on this, thanks! *Just noticed that according to the NHK dictionary, certain words like 美味しい can be 平板 as well as 中高, so perhaps it may not apply to those necessarily, but I’d still be curious to hear about words like 可愛い, etc. Thanks!
ssjoel3k
2020-11-23 00:44:10 +0000 UTCHi Lucy! In a way—they do replace the rule that says 3-mora nakadaka i-adjectives shift back the mora. However, akai is not a nakadaka i-adjective, rather a heiban adjective that is often said as if it was a nakadaka i-adjective in it's dictionary form, so this backward shift doesn't necessarily apply to akai's conjugations (and I don't thing I ever say that the past form of akai should be said as Akakatta). This is a rather complicated topic however, so I would encourage you to wait until the next lesson comes out before drawing any conclusions about heiban i-adjectives. The above lesson is about downstep i-adjectives specifically. Hope this helps, cheers!
Dogen
2020-11-22 05:55:45 +0000 UTCApologies if this is going to be covered in the remake of ep 13! I was just wondering whether these new rules replace the one you originally mentioned about the downstep in conjugations for 3-mora nakadaka i-adjectives moving back one mora? e.g. aKAi becoming Akatta?
Lucy Thompson
2020-11-21 11:19:40 +0000 UTCHi Maelle, I think it's good for teaching some things, but not necessary for teaching the pitch of every single word. Incidentally, I actually use programs to show pitch patterns in lessons 6.3 to 6.5, which can be accessed here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/16489306 It would probably be good to watch these lessons to understand how I use this kind of software. Cheers!
Dogen
2020-11-17 05:38:28 +0000 UTCDear Dogen, thank you so much for your work and for sharing this amazing content with us. What’s your view on using free programs like praat.org to visualise pitch when teaching ? (more of a teacher to teacher question)
Maelle Amand
2020-11-16 09:13:40 +0000 UTCどういたしまして！そうですね、こっちの方が簡単ですね。
Dogen
2020-11-16 04:39:46 +0000 UTCMy pleasure! I have a feeling you'll find this lesson useful and easy to follow!
Dogen
2020-11-16 04:39:25 +0000 UTCAlmost done, will have another update soon! Cheers!
Dogen
2020-11-16 04:39:02 +0000 UTCありがとうございます！この動画の方が簡単ですね。
Massacred Snake
2020-11-16 01:22:16 +0000 UTCCan't wait to watch! I was just about to watch the old version yesterday but I had the sneaking suspicion I should wait. Keep up the excellent work!
Travis Dodd
2020-11-16 01:04:28 +0000 UTCThanks so much Dogen! Is the anki flash card deck you mentioned also coming soon?
Destin Estrela
2020-11-16 00:53:37 +0000 UTC
