Japanese Phonetics Episode 67—now with native recordings!
Added 2019-08-15 14:03:37 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good afternoon, Patrons.
The sixty-seventh episode of Japanese Phonetics has now been updated with high-quality, native recordings! In this lesson we learn a useful guideline for determining the pitch accent of complex number compounds.
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dōgen
Comments
Interesting! Again I don’t know too much about Karate so I’m hesitate to comment on whether or not this could be a rule, but it is interesting to know—thanks for the share!
Dogen
2020-10-16 23:49:08 +0000 UTCHi Strange, 1. Yes, in kids speech or when the numbers are elongated, they are always 頭高, as in Iichi, Nii, SAan, SHIi, GOo, etc. I'm not sure about ascending order or karate exercises, but that may be the case as well. 2. I'm also not too good with phone numbers, but what you mentioned feels correct, and it seems to be backed up by the information on this site: https://gist.github.com/k3zi/3f38070efffa38db83cd5745d83b1235#numbers-数字 Cheers!
Dogen
2020-10-16 05:00:26 +0000 UTCGreat content, as usual! And it's unique also (I couldn't find any other information on this topic on the internet). Anyway. I found coupe of interesting things about numbers and I'd like to hear your opinion on this stuff. The first thing I found is about the case when you're counting in ascending order (like when doing exercises, or doing karate moves in dojo, or playing hide-and-seek 1,2,3,4,5...). In that case all numbers become two-mora long (に becomes にい, ご becomes ごう, し becomes しい), and all numbers become atamadaka: Ichi, NIi, SAn, YOn, GOu, ROku ...etc. The second thing is about random sequence of numbers (most web-sites describe this as "phone number rule" but it seems like it's appliable to any sequence). In that case they group numbers in pairs, then they make all numbers two-mora long, and make these groups nakadaka - LHHL. If some number doesn't have a pair it retains its length and accent. Thus, 1234-567 would become: iCHI-NIi saN-YOn no goU-ROku-NAna desu. I've seen these two cases mentioned only couple of times, so I wonder if it's a common thing or just some local/coloquial variation. Thank you in advance!
Strange Guy
2020-10-15 19:35:01 +0000 UTCSorry Filip, just seeing this now—should be able to confirm this in the next lesson after looking across all my resources, but this does sound correct to me.
Dogen
2019-12-18 05:32:59 +0000 UTCHi Archie! If you haven't tried already I would highly recommend recoding yourself saying the different patterns. For example try saying 'NImotsu ha' and then 'niMOtsuha' to the best of your ability, and then listen to and analyze the recording. Often times you'll be able to work out this kind of issue simply by trying to say the word aloud. Hope this helps! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-08-31 14:39:41 +0000 UTCDogen, I am working through the shared anki deck, and I'm loving what you've provided. I can hear most of the pitch accents, but there are some words that I just can't recognise. 荷物は for example, I am hearing as にも\つは or even に/も\\つは instead of に\もつは. I don't want to start making errors early on, so should I keep trying to hear it or would it be better to move onto reproduction and hope that exaggerating the pitch will help me to understand it.
Archie Nancarrow
2019-08-30 15:08:52 +0000 UTCThank you for the clarification Filip! I have read Labrune's work on this subject as well but because this subject is rather niche, and certainly not as documented a の induced pitch-change, I won't be covering it in the immediate future. That said, I will be covering any of the particles you've mentioned below, as many of these are mentioned across the various resources I own, which allows me to cross check. I was actually planning on covering these as soon as I finish with counters, so it should only be a lesson or two. I apologize for the wait, and thank you for your understanding and support!
Dogen
2019-08-26 05:22:06 +0000 UTCAdditionaly, I would like to know if there are rules or tricks for determining the dictionary pitch accent of various particles. For example, Imabi.net says that "Except for から, しか, and だけ, the pitch of such [=more than one morae] particles, which include さえ, すら, だに, でも, のみ, まで, かな, とも, など, なり, のに, ので, and combinations, is determined by the pitch of the noun. If the noun is 平板型, the first morae of the particle is accented. If the noun is accented, then there is no pitch change in the particle." Does that seem right?
Filip Kostka
2019-08-25 12:32:03 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, as an example of such a particle, you covered の: にほꜜんが ->にほんの。In The Phonology of Japanese, Labrune shows the dominant behaviour of だけ and ばかり for some speakers: くだꜜものが->くだものだけ, くだものば ꜜかり. According to the same source, for some speakers, しか may even induce stress on the preceding word: はなが->はなꜜしか. Labrune's discussion isn't very extensive, so I guess what I would like to know is if we should worry about this behavior at all. Is it safe to assume that all particles are recessive, i.e. they don't modify the accent of the preceding word and only retain their dictionary accent if the preceding word is 平板?
Filip Kostka
2019-08-25 12:19:56 +0000 UTCHi Filip! I'm not quite sure what you mean by this—the pitch of the kind of particles we've seen so far in this series is always determined by the word that precedes them. That is to say, words determine the pitch of particles, not the other way around. If I'm not understanding your question correctly please let me know!
Dogen
2019-08-25 04:32:55 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, I'm very curious about the pitch accent of various particles and how they modify the accent of the words they attach to. Are you planning to cover this in more detail anytime soon?
Filip Kostka
2019-08-23 11:04:28 +0000 UTCThank you for signing up Rainstorm—I'm sure that you will learn a lot! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-08-21 07:23:10 +0000 UTCJust joined Patreon, looking forward to working on getting caught up on your Japanese Phonetics series. :)
Rainstorm Travel
2019-08-21 03:39:11 +0000 UTCMy pleasure Natasha, glad you were able to clear up the confusion! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-08-18 04:30:24 +0000 UTCThis makes so much sense now, thank you. My teacher was saying I had to separate certain elements and run others together and I didn't understand why. I could hear the difference but I didn't know when I needed to do it and when I didn't.
Natasha Mitchell
2019-08-17 09:27:51 +0000 UTCHi Pisces! Indeed this will be answered in the next episode—apologies for the wait and thank you for your support!
Dogen
2019-08-17 07:17:33 +0000 UTCI gotta admit, I'm a bit antsy for the next lesson already! During a cooking themed audio lesson on JPod101, someone said 「砂糖三十グラム」, but said 三十 with no downstep. It's bothering me to no end! Will counters like these (or at least whatever category it's in) be addressed in the next episode?
thebasedpisces
2019-08-16 06:11:10 +0000 UTC
