Japanese Phonetics Episode 40—LIVE (Updated with native recordings!)
Added 2018-04-20 01:00:01 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good morning Patrons! The fortieth episode of Japanese Phonetics is live, now updated with native recordings! In this lesson we look at を, comparing phonetic literature with standard language programs, native speech from Forvo, and independent surveys.
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dōgen
Comments
Oh, and as a bonus, I am a Greek teacher to US students, and my students always mock me when I say *pronOUnciation* instead of *pronUnciation*. Pretty sure I picked up this habit from you :D
Elijah Lubben
2024-07-08 15:57:19 +0000 UTCBecause of some unique circumstances, I fairly regularly get to sit in on my daughter's 1st-grade Japanese classes. In 国語, when covering the を particle, the teacher made a big point of how を should *not* be pronounced as ”お” and practiced saying ぅお with the whole class. Not sure this is happening in 一年生 all over the country, but at least one 1st grade teacher is teaching all her students ぅお is the correct pronunciation.
Elijah Lubben
2024-07-08 15:56:12 +0000 UTCHi, David. JP here, Dōgen's business partner. I'm helping manage the messages here on Patreon. We have been having some problems with Patreon notifications, and I just saw your question while reviewing some posts. I am very sorry I didn't catch this earlier. This is a good question. You probably found your answer in lesson 54, which covers the "hatsuon", or the ん sound in detail. It's a little hard to describe in writing, but the ん sound is pronounced nasally while the を/お is pronounced from your mouth, not nasally. Because the two sounds are so different, the shift can be difficult. This could be why it sounds like natives pronounce を as ぅお following ん, so that they can make this shift more naturally. The only time んを or んお will sound like の is if you are pronouncing ん closer to an English "N" sound. I hope this helps, and thank you for your question!
Dogen
2023-11-13 06:55:49 +0000 UTCI’ve also noticed natives pronouncing the を as ぅお when following a word ending with ん. As for my own Japanese pronunciation, when I say a word ending in ん followed by an を I’ve been told it sometimes sounds like の. I’ve tried to be more conscious about giving the ん a full space when pronouncing it but have found that pronouncing the を as ぅお when followed by ん the problem goes away (i.e., the ん＋を doesn’t sound like の). I would be curious to hear Dogen’s thoughts. First, do natives sometimes pronounce the を as ぅお when following an ん sound, whereas they might otherwise pronounce the を as お. And, second, what does Dogen think about pronouncing the を as ぅお only when following the ん sound to avoid the ん＋を sounding like の. Thanks!
David
2023-06-11 05:11:32 +0000 UTCHi Tomoki! Sorry I never saw this—I do think that instances like this, in which を is surrounded by two other お sounds, that it's best to pronounce it simply as お. Apologies again for the late comment!
Dogen
2023-02-17 06:12:50 +0000 UTCI've noticed the same honestly, I always thought を simply changed sounds in that case
Pablo Zaid
2022-12-26 18:55:18 +0000 UTCI've been learning Japanese for about 10 years and I feel like most people pronounce を as お in most cases, but I've noticed that in cases where を comes after an ん sound, like 自分を, it's definitely always pronounced as ぅお, is that just me?
Patrick Auri
2021-09-15 20:02:26 +0000 UTCRegarding the parsing of お to を, I've come across many examples where 3 お sounds appear one after the other, in またご利用をお待ちしています、or またご使用をお待ちしています. Not only does the difference between りよう and りょう make this sentence a pain, but for some one to even attempt to pronounce the を as ぅお in the midst of all that in natural quick speech seems impossible, or impractical. (To be honest all 3 お sounds in a row seems impractical to me too when ご has a similar function, but whatever). In that kind of instance, what is the best way to parse this? I'm wondering if you'd address this sort of thing in a later lesson, or if it's too specific to bother covering *again*
Tomoki有基
2018-05-16 17:37:11 +0000 UTCNailed it.
Dogen
2018-05-02 23:55:29 +0000 UTCJIBUN WOOOOO
Jonathan Parecki
2018-05-02 20:47:09 +0000 UTCHi again! While I do intend on covering voicing to a certain degree, I don't expect it to be in the detail you may be hoping for, as this program is primarily aimed at native English speakers; I apologize for this in advance. Incidentally can you remind me what your native language is? Also just to clarify, do you have difficulty making the z sound in isolation as well?
Dogen
2018-04-20 12:14:01 +0000 UTCHi Sascha. Great question. I do believe that some native speakers might always pronounce it as お when not paying attention, but believe the proper pronunciation to be 'wo', but I think the key word in this statement is 'some'. That is to say, there are certainly many native speakers who believe it is 'o' in both careful speech and normal conversation as well. Hope that this helps!
Dogen
2018-04-20 12:06:30 +0000 UTCOh, and an actual question on upcoming content: are you gonna cover vocing in detail? As a native speaker of a language with no proper voicing contrasts, properly voicing consonants when they ought to be is somewhat of a challenge, even if I conceptually know what voicing is. I’m not sure what sorts of tips you could give though. My major struggle (in both English and Japanese) is [z], but I also struggle with the plosives, highlighting them primarily by a lack of aspiration.
Sascha Baer
2018-04-20 11:34:13 +0000 UTCI’ve noticed before that people quote the particle as “wo” and then immediately give an example where they pronounce it as “o”. Might it just be that in careful speech, they are applying what amounts to hypercorrection or reading pronunciation? That is, would you consider it plausible that some native speakers do always consistently pronounce it as “o” when not paying attention to it, but believe they pronounce it as “wo” as they think of it as a w-series kana?
Sascha Baer
2018-04-20 11:30:19 +0000 UTC
