Minnesota Flag Redesign: Grey's First Impressions

My only peeve with snowflake is how the two layers don’t sit perfectly alligned. The yellow v behind the white prongs is not in symmetry. I have the same problem with another US flag, the one with a big C on it - the ends of the c don’t happen where the horizontal stripes are, but with the angled line it looks like they do point to being connected… but just don’t. ( Wouldn’t look so bad if the ends of the letters were parallel to the stripes!) I think with asymmetry in design it has to be obvious (like the U.K.) AND angles and overlaps have to be considered with all the science art can throw at design. (There’s an art term I can’t think of that covers the ‘abuttment’ or near abutment of lines… and I can’t think of it…. Grrrrr.)

Hathornefer

No script = perfect!

Patrick and Rachel

The colours on the Polaris Tricolour reminds me of the unofficial flag of Labrador in Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Labrador

Oliver Dingwell

Heraldry is my special interest. It’s interesting that you brought it up while looking at Snowflake, because I detest it. Heraldic rules say that yellow and white should never be touching, because it doesn’t pop and it takes some time looking at it to differentiate. Most famous example of violating the Rule of Tincture is Monty Python’s Black Knight. What is the emblem (or charge) on his costume? It’s a boar’s head. Red on black, like white on yellow, does not provide enough contrast to make it instantly recognizable.

Ronin316

I preferred Snowflake just over Polaris, but this is a really solid point. I think it changed my mind, tbh. Both would be a massive improvement. I'm happy for Minnesota either way they choose

Javier Sandoval

All of them have color problems. So drab! - Snowflake is it uses the same color palette as all the boring state flags — navy blue, white, and often gold. Bleh. Otherwise not bad. - Big star is pretty good, could use a color tweak but I like that it's not drab. - Liquid crystal was awkward and apparently the corn was meant to be trees. o_O - The star point on Star rise (I'm prolly getting these names wrong already) comes too close to the wavy line. - I appreciate Old Wavy's boldness and distinctiveness but I don't actually like it. A Minnesotan I know prefers it. - Polaris Tricolor has ugly colors but the state shape thing (which I hadn't noticed) is cool and it does look really good vertical.

Kallin

Shocked at Snowflake getting the axe! It's so gorgeous.

TruffflePigg

Definitely Polaris. Old Wavy is #2 for sure. BTW Grey, Minnesota has TEN thousand lakes. ;)

Dennis Dimka

Tricolor seems like the likeliest winner, to me. It seems like the thing that will move hearts. But I do quite enjoy Old Wavy. When Grey was saying "They killed all the loons" I laughed when he immediately showed a loon. Old Wavy is nice! But Tricolor is the probable winner, in my mind.

Scott Myers

Snowflake and Big Wavy were my two choices.

Cameron Tegeler

I pretty much agreed with your ranking. My Minnesotan wife thinks old wavy is the best. MN also resigned the terrible seal. The new one they picked will have a loon on it.

Terry Steiner

Big Wavy is my favorite. all others pale in comparison.

Christopher Buteau

I'm actually quite fond of Old Wavy myself, and Star Rise is also nice.... but neither me nor Grey have much input into what the state chooses, so we'll see.

Jo Mason

Hmmm. I really like Old Wavy, and my problem with both Snowflake and North Star is that if they fold in on themselves you lose the only item on the flag that you can see so they become only a background colour. My final vote, all things considered, would be for Polaris.

Daisee

Ok, this is brilliant, and I hope it encourages you to trust your instincts and make more "spontaneous" videos. I know that you prefer to edit, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, revise, and then publish, and while it's given us some great content, this video shows how strong your instincts can be.

Sean Munson

I'd rename "liquid crystal" to "Transformers Statue of Liberty"

CGP's assumption about tri-colour being sky-land-water suggests the white "problem" could be eliminated by making the sky a light blue with a darker blue for the water at the bottom. The green land in between may stand out better serving the need for a flag to be recognizable however it is flying on a staff.

Old wavy was definitely designed to invoke not just water/river, but also give reference to a loon/bird. I do like the design, but not necessarily as the flag

Lexandor Davunt

Tricolor looks like the printer ran out of magenta and came out overcyaned.

Artem Kreimer

I can't get it to play on YT either much sadness

Elizabeth Calvert

Any of those 6 would be better than what they currently have..I like Old Wavy and the Tri-Stripe the best out of the bunch..

Superpotroast

A committee pre-selection of the flags after a open submittal from the public is a good way to start. But what will the voting method be from here on? Surely first past the post won’t do :-)

Polaris has 4 non-contrasting cold colors which is bad idea in heraldry but okay in a modern flag. It's almost grim, very House Stark, which is good for Minnesota.

Quind

My first thought on the liquid crystal one was "What is that cactus doing there?" I am not up on the Native tribes symbol depictions though.

Danelle M

They are considering a mashup of sorts, according to news stories, so MAYBE!?!

Danelle M

Thank you!! I was coming here to say it's totally a Norwegian Rose (rosette) or 8pt star - very traditional in Scandinavian design. I can't speak to its usage in native tribes that occupied Minnesota or the upper north though.

Danelle M

Can they put the snowflake star on the Polaris tricolor?

Grey considering the Sioux star: “There may be something Sioux about it”

Andy Aspaas

The different "star" patterns on a lot of these are heavily used in Scandinavian and Nordic designs too - wondering if Minnesota is giving a nod to the significant Swedish and German immigrant history (in addition to the native one).

Old Wavey was my favorite. It stands out, it's easily differentiated; it's pleasing to look at; it's not too busy. I like it a lot

Kraken Artificer

Thanks for posting this here so I could watch it not on YouTube

Kraken Artificer

My ranking is almost the same. I'd bump Old Wavy up one spot but Polaris is absolutely the best, followed by Snowflake.

Cogspace

The shapes in Liquid Crystal reminds me of tangrams/pattern blocks from elementary school.

Next he's gonna call it "duck duck goose"

Themata

For “Liquid crystal” the green part kind of looks like a transformer robot (or maybe Iron Man?) with arms raised holding a torch

Neil Neyman

Good video, thanks! I do sorta like Old Wavey. I thought of the white being representative of the Aurora Borealis, and the blue more the source of the Mississippi river. And as others have stated, could also be seen as stylized loons. Polaris Tricolor, I think white should be the center. Sky above, Snow (middle) on the land (green).

Vik-Thor Rose

Personally I think that Snowflake is the best as it 'feels' the most Minnesota to me (very scientific I know). The dark background seems to represent the midnight winter sky, the star in the center the north star, both of which present how north and cold Minnesota is, and whatever that tribal design is seems to fit and also looks like a snowflake, which is appropriate given how snowy the state is. Its also different enough from other flags to stand out (my issue with Polaris is, color aside, it looks like Every Other Flag and to a colorblind person it might not be easily identifiable). Of course, as someone *not* from Minnesota my vote is not particularly valid but eh.

Phoenix Ryzing

Two of these flags look like they were made with pattern blocks borrowed from a kindergarten classroom. I guess a good tool for first drafts, but maybe smooth it a bit before the final? Also I love that snowflake flag. I’m Minnesotan and I promise if that gets chosen I’m buying one and it is going on my wall.

Laura Danielson

At 2:50 Grey shows all the star shapes on a blue background, and I thought “hum” that’s a distinctive flag! But, alas-ka’s already got dibs on “Stars on bedsheets”.

Hans Cathcart

Here's another vote for Old Wavey. In the introductory grid with all flags visible side-by-side, to me it absolutely stands out as eye-catching and it's not even close. And if the others get a demerit for looking too corporate, Old Wavey gets a bonus point for being anti-corporate. I'm also a sucker for motion in art and Old Wavey *flows*. While also being a visual pun on loons and rivers. What's not to love about it?

PC Escobar

I'm not a Minnesotan and have no dog in this race but I was thinking the same thing. I think I'm craving some asymmetry there, both aesthetically and to more closely match the state's shape

Riemann Zeta-Jones

And as CGP mentioned the waves look a bit like a stylized duck, or more accurately a loon!

Louis Albrecht

if you're ranking and there's a large number of things you're working with, merge sort is pretty easy to understand and to do with fairly limited notes, and much faster

tha1whonox

I also think Star-Rise got sold a little short here, but I was coming into this blinder than Grey did.

Is the black portion of the Polaris Tricolor supposed to look like an M if the flag is hung vertically?

DixonLu

So Minnesota is switching their flag cause we are getting rid of the current seal, for obvious reasons, and out of the 5 for that competition even the judges all loved a single submission so that one will probably win for the new seal and can totally agree on it

Peter the Bear

Thank you for doing this video.

Katherine Aumer

I submitted a couple flags to the contest. Kinda bummed they didn't make the finals

Don't mess with Texas(' high-tier design, I guess)!

Morjax

Yes, please!!

Morjax

To be fair, Polaris looks like copied homework from Texas, but both are nice designs, so maybe rightfully so.

Morjax

The council choosing isn't under an obligation to take the designs as-is, so the colors could be tweaked.

Morjax

I do think the cutout on Polaris is intentional, and I'd like it more (as a Minnesotan) if it was asymmetric like the state silhouette: instead of the point in the middle, put the point at the lower 1/3 mark. Is that an unpopular opinion? If so sooorry in advance.

Morjax

I my opinion, I think that the North Star flag was a pretty boring design, it could have been made a lot nicer by just changing the star to have more points, maybe make the colors a bit better, although I did see many flags that i liked better than these 6 in the competition

The_Bradinator

Gotcha, thanks! Must have misheard the video

Aurora H.

11 yellow lines for the 11 tribal nations within Minnesota. 87 white lines for the 87 counties. What drives me crazy is the lines aren't spaced perfectly.

Scott Seligman

Polaris colors are just an approximation of the glorious colors present in the dog submission

I’m a little sad the North Star Flag didn’t make it to the finals. That was my favorite of the bunch. Of these, though, Polaris and Rising are my favorites.

Curious if anyone knows why some of the lines in Liquid Crystal in the upper left corner are yellow instead of white? At first I thought it could be the 12 tribes Gray mentioned but there are only 11 of them

Aurora H.

I like "Old Wavey". I think it would look really great in a breeze whipping back and forth. It's also very distinct from other state flags.

Andrew Dyjach

I don't think that is corn. Pretty sure it is a Transformer holding a winged baby Transformer.

This was fun to watch, good idea to put it together!

Stéphane Lemay

The "Snowflake" jumped out at me from the first look at all of them. I think that maybe the blue background is bothering you; it's effectively the same boring blue that permeates the US State set, as you have previously pointed out.

Anonymously_Famous

Liquid Crystal could be seen as a star, a menorah, and a crucifix without much effort

Michael Wolff

I do like polaris. though I feel like the colors could change a bit, maybe the blue around the star to be the same blue as the american flag

Lopoi

Land of TEN THOUSAND lakes, Grey. /Minnesotan, ironically from the only county in MN without a single natural lake Your reasons for rejecting the loons are sound even if I'm sad about it. Snowflake for me, idk why. I just like it.

Thanks for this Grey - fun little video. And I’m so proud of my home state for finally doing something (anything!) about that flag of ours.

Brian M

i think the color combination on polaris is one of the best i’ve seen in a long time. the light blue and green is perfect

Judah Chambers

Hi! Minnesotan here. Many of us Minnesotans are not happy with any of these finalists. Sadly, there were many wonderful candidates just missing the final list. None more beloved than the North Star Flag. It has been around since 1989, and it's been speculated for years that this flag would eventually become official. It was a massive shock to us when this flag was rejected by the committee.

I looked at these with my SO last night and Polaris absolutely jumped out at me as the best overall flag for the reasons Grey outlined. One other thing that jumped out at me: it has the best overall design elements to pull from - the star, the geometric shape, and the colors all can be remixed in various ways but still be recognizable (think Roman Mars on the Chicago flag).

Rufo Sanchez

the dot or the shapes around the white dot on the "Snowflake" flag is/are not centered

Jacob

Personally prefer snowflake, although I know tricolour is the standard, its nice to see a new design appear so my favourite has to be snowflake, could see either winning though

Your irrational bias against smooth curves has warped your judgment, CGP. Old Wavy is clearly the best flag of the bunch -- best color scheme, eye catching, and NOT BORING. Blue on the bottom evoking a winding, rushing stream, and white on the top evoking wind-blown clouds and snow. Perfect for Minnesota. I agree that Snowflake is a good second choice. Polaris is just so.....dingy. I would like it better if the colors were brighter. Also Polaris is evocative of a lot of country flags I don't much care for. If you're going to go with that general layout, only Comoros' flag really appeals to me, so maybe add another horizontal stripe or two to Polaris and brighten up the color scheme and I could get on board with it.

Maytree

Old Wavy is my favorite out of the bunch, I think that it symbolizes many things such as the north star (obviously) and maybe the fact that the Mississippi river starts in Minnesota (which is why it gets smaller) I also think the white may represent the Northern lights. Personally I think it is just very appealing and the curved edges work well with it.

The_Bradinator

As is I like Snowflake best, but you could reorder the stripes on the tricolor to be blue (sky) over white (snow) over green (earth) and I'd like that better.

PsyMar

It's a plant person holding up a plant statue of Liberty style 🗽

Parker Bond

Hard disagree on Old Wavy. That design kicks ass.

Ghilz

Apparently, the tribal design is called a "Sioux Star"

Ahem: Land of *Ten* Thousand Lakes. I forgive you. Old Wavy would look great on shirt or a mug, or as the background of the title card of a powerpoint deck. Tricolor definitely makes the best flag.

Just an Aardvark

It looks too knock off Texas to me.

Nathan Swapp

I think Snowflake is my favorite but it is very "New Mexico." It feels like the designer was trying to mirror the Zia with a colder climate.

Nathan Swapp

I agree that Polaris Tricolor is the best, but I like Star-Rise better than Grey does. That said, any of these six would be VAST improvements over the current flag!

Derek Hiemforth

Flag news is the best news

Okay, now we just need Roman to do an episode of 99Pi about the Minnesota flag redesign.

Ryan

Don't really agree with your take on Old Wavy. I think it's really beautiful, evokes the landscape of the state, and if it IS two ducks... well, there's your loon that people wanted without it being over the top. I do wish they'd used a different shape for the star, but it's fine. It also looks good rotated unlike some of the others. That said, it's my second favorite and I don't disagree with your first choice. Polaris tricolor is still the best. Snowflake is also fine.

David W (d20dave) (d_dave)

I saw another video covering this topic and I immediately picked the Polaris design.

Will Farr

at first i was confused by the star pattern you called out as tribal, because traditional native american star quilts use the ratios of a sawtooth star. but then i realized it’s just that it’s set on point, like an ohio star. it’s one of the most common blocks in american quilting and has european design origins, but definitely has midwest native associations. (the quilt block that’s actually named “minnesota” is cool, but not a star and not great for a flag unless you’re going to do it all over.)

L. Lee Butler

Polaris Tri-Color is the best of all those flags

Yeah, the vague Minnesota shape in Polaris Tricolor definitely immediately jumped out at me as a nice geometrification of the state shape. Nice 😊

Julian Fiander

Polaris was my favourite, jumped out to me imidiatly and the shape on the left is like a quarter of the sort of cross shape 3 of the other flags had,

Liam Pender

Just saw "Old Wavy." Wait, those waves are actually TWO LOONS! It gives me MC Escher vibes too. (PS, if Grey doesn't like landscapes, why did he love the red-rock-white-peaks-blue-sky from Utah?

April Pulvirenti

I mean any of them are better than to SoB it currently is. so Progress?

WeylandsWings

The new Utah flag is wonderful

Weirdly strange imaging myself under a blanket in hotel with CPG grey

James Patton

“Good luck joining me under this blanket in a hotel”

Jose Betancourt