The 1776 Report: backer version

Wish Shaun had seen this comment earlier - it's not his usual thing to get other people to do voices but would have been great.

All-Natural Fig Jam

I thought the same thing when I first watched the video, but after a couple of rewatches (or rather, relistens) I came around on it. It's a great illustration on how it's less about information than rhetoric, and that the frame of the debate is (sadly) more important than any of the debate's content. Give it some time to percolate.

All-Natural Fig Jam

Great video as usual! Re: your concern about quoting MLK's words directly. A thought i had when you said you won't be able to do Frederick Douglass' speech justice was that you could see about finding a black creator to put voice to his words instead?

Howlcat

So, I've been reading How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney (which is really eye-opening) and one of the things that really hit me in the gut was the passage about how the British colonizers in Africa used to make the Africans sing Rule Britannia. I sang that song often as a child, and to my shame the full context of the second line never occurred to me. I think I somehow thought it was a reference to the Roman occupation of Britain?

Kat

Shaun, Great video. I am not sure I have any constructive criticisms to offer, but I wanted to offer some constructive, err, praise? I guess. I showed this video to my dad, who is one of those centrist/libertarian/basically moderately conservative but thinks they are not types. I've been getting him to watch a lot of more left leaning videos, and this was the first one that I think actually shook him. He kind of went off on a tangent right after we finished about how people don't quote MLK as an "authority", really trying to rationalize the fact that he has in fact quoted MLK in exactly the way you criticized many times in conversations with me. I didn't even try to argue with him, because I think he was genuinely upset at how he had been called out implicitly. I think in the long run this is probably a good thing for him, though obviously I am not really sure. Anyway, whatever changes you do make to this, I suggest leaving in everything you have about MLK and Frederick Douglass. It was very hard hitting and apparently even so to somebody I thought was immune to seeing the contradiction in how they hold up these black historical figures as ways to criticize modern anti-racism movements.

Dylan

Hey Shaun! Great video. To me, it seems that the anecdote about the science teacher and the atheist debate is a little irrelevant, and that time might be better spent summing up the dichotomy of the 1619/1776 projects before delving into the details of each. It just feels a little out there

At 37:52, you mention the passage of the civil rights act in 1965. However, the civil rights act was passed in 1964. The voting rights act was passed in 1965.

John Mignone

Stellar ending "All of this bullshit is easy to see through if we take the time to act calmly and intelligently and- oh. ...oh dear.

Robyn F H Veitch

I live in the US, have all my life. Yup, that last statement is spot on. There are a few of us people with functioning brains but not enough.

Aaron Bono

I liked the ending. I realize you have to put all the stuff, as per your responsibilities to your backers and such, but it certainly was a fun, punchy finish.

Kat

I don't know if you still add any passages to your vid but if so, you might consider this: You correctly say that the whole 'cultural marxism'-thing is antisemitic and there are a bunch of reasons why, but you don't really go into detail (which is understandable because it's not the subject of your essay). To strengthen your argument at this point you could simply point to the obvious similarities between 'cultural marxism' and 'cultural bolshevism'. The latter was the main concept of nazi germany propaganda to subsume communism under 'jewish agency' which ultimately lead to the Vernichtungskrieg against the soviet union. Not adding this of course doesn't make your point invalid or anything. Great video, I always enjoy listening to your arguments. <3

I agree to this to a certain extend. However, P.R. was first invited by the U.S. in 1898 and became a territory in 1917 (which they used it to draft puerto rican soldier to fight in ww1).

Another observation that undermines the 1619 Project's claim that the USA wasn't a democracy until African-Americans made it and has thereafter been one, is that the United States is an empire that claims ownership and absolute authority to rule over colonies like Puerto Rico and dispose of them as they see fit. Apart from how it's a contemporary departure from government by consent of the governed in the Declaration of Independence that Americans are utterly untroubled by, a more obscure observation is that for all that Americans like to disguise this by lecturing everybody that Puerto Rico is (supposedly) part of the USA and that its people are (supposedly) Americans, Hannah-Jones and the New York Times didn't title their thing the 1509 Project (the year the first enslaved persons were brought to Puerto Rico). PS What is to the Puerto Rican the 4th of July, indeed

sacundim

the exception/unexceptional point is very interesting, great video, thanks for making it

What's Therapy

Loved it!

I don't know if the video title is a joke, an accident, or the path of least resistance, but I love it all the same.

Toward the end (~45 minutes), I think the decontextualization, recreation, and canonization of Black leaders fits beautifully into this Lenin quote, and it might be a nice inclusion? During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.

Arben

Also, not for nothing, I'm going to take that final joke a lot differently from an American than from a European. (I realize there is dispute within Great Britain as to whether they are European, but I mean it in the sense of "descended from the white people who went out and colonized everywhere," which surely fits the U.K.)

Marissa Collins

I love the topic. My only challenge was that I felt it took a long time in the beginning to understand what your thesis was, or what the subject of the video is even about. I wondered if it was simply a 1776 Project debunk, but was very glad to see you introduce a more important narrative around the 4-5min mark. What I loved about "Dropping the Bomb" in contrast was how you set up the video with a great deal of clarity in the first 2 minutes. "The popular belief is X, but let's dig in to see if that's a fair assessment" and I was hooked. I guess I just fear you might lose people with what I felt to be meandering details in minutes 1-3. Feedback given with love! Feel free to dismiss if I'm the only one to have observed this.

Eric Rodriguez

I LOVED this video! Great job! I noticed a minor factual error at about 37:55. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965. Your point is good, but you probably ought to say "...ended in 1965 with the passing of the Voting Rights Act."

Great video Shaun 😊 to me the word negro comes across as neutral when quoting King, but I hope some American POCs will weigh in on it in this comment section. As for the ending joke, it's definitely funny and I love whenever you include your trademark bone-dry (ha!) sense of humour in videos - the overt vs veiled racism one was particular good. But others (particularly Americans) night take the ending joke differently and it could be a little alienating if they're not into self-deprecation. You could instead use the space to make a point about how this sort of rhetoric muddies the waters and is particularly harmful to children, who definitely don't have the critical capacity or context to challenge the more comfortable, whitewashed history - circle back around to that creationism vs evolution debate. And once something is taught in primary school it can be very difficult to unlearn, especially if you don't attend school past grade 12. Just a thought.

All-Natural Fig Jam

Yeah agree with this - going straight from this video to another Shaun vid the audio gets noticeably louder.

All-Natural Fig Jam

It might be a bit too much of a digression, but the podcast 'Know Your Enemy' had an episode recently discussing the 1776 report that pointed out that a lot of the authors are part of a strain of thought called 'West Coast Straussianism', which shares a lot of rhetorical moves and obsessions with the report (excessive focus on the declaration of Independence; contempt for real democratic movements). Though it might also sound like a bit of a stretch out of context, a lot of these people also justify whitewashing history in the name of civic virtue via a particular reading of the Plato's Republic. Alan Bloom ran in similar circles and talked about this in his translation of the work (I think, been a bit since I read it).

I second that. I don't think I've ever heard the phrase 'race reductionism' used.

Commit to the ending joke. It’s great.

KosyKat

Fellow Puerto Rican chiming in to agree! The point about modern-day voter suppression would be stronger if you mentioned specific laws-- the lack of representation for US territories (whose citizens are largely people of color), the disenfranchisement of many people convicted of crimes (again, largely people of color), etc. Gerrymandering, the monetary cost of political participation, and the general difficulty of just casting a vote are important tools of voter suppression, but I think these arguments kind of rely on the listener already being on your side and knowing about these issues. I think it's a little easier to grasp the scale of the problem when you can also point to a specific law and say "this here says X number of people can't vote."

Victoria Borges

It's good. I like it. And I would worry more about misquoting King than about quoting awkward anachronisms.

Ricardo Costa

One thing I would slightly dispute- at around 8:28 you mention that the report is "rhetoric", but I actually would argue a more accurate word would be "propaganda". While it may seem a bit strong, academically it's the proper definition for when you are "propagandizing" or "propagating" your ideas. States engage in propaganda all the time- and it isn't inherently bad in an International Relations respect, mainly something that needs considering.

bmueller

Maybe just my set-up but your voice seems more quiet than normal, otherwise really enjoyed it!

Ben Masters

Very good so far. If you're looking for (admittedly minor) corrections, at 39:19 you say, "Because as the 1619 Report highlights..." Does the NYT refer to the 1619 Project as a report? Regarding the final joke, it was exactly what I was thinking before you delivered the punchline. Is it appropriate for this video? Yes. Helpful? I dunno. I fear it gives people like you and me a tiny bit of catharsis while leaving those that might be swayed just a little (would they be watching?) with a sense that there's nothing to be done, this was all for laughs, or that you don't care. Since I know all that is wrong, I can laugh. But I would much rather leave them with something more if you can.

David Harkness

This is incredibly minor, but in my experience you're a lot more likely to get accusations of "identity politics" rather than "race reductionism". In this context they mean the same thing, but it threw me for a loop a bit because I don't actually know that I've ever heard the phrase "race reductionism" before.

DevilGhoti

Here is a good reading of "What to a slave is the 4th of July" done by James Earl Jones if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0baE_CtU08

Skibbityboo

+1 for this suggestion, plus it just feels like the right thing to do tbh

Lucy Welch

I think that in a video concerning Black people to this extent it would be best to consult some Black people, especially Black historians. They could also provide some insight as to the use of the n-word you mention in the video. That said, I liked the video a whole lot, especially how you deconstructed the narrative devices used in the "report".

Forgot to mention this in my earlier comment, but... There are current efforts here by Republicans to restrict voting rights even further in poor and diverse communities. Congress has a bill to counter this effort (HR-1) called the "For the People Act" which is mostly necessary because the Supreme Court, which has been stacked with conservatives thanks to Moscow Mitch McConnell, is probably about to further gut the voting rights law passed in 1965. Anyway, it's a live issue here. Google "U.S. voting rights" and you'll get a lot of current news.

Kathy G

I like your take on the problematic words. Curious where you teach history. My brother is a history teacher in Austin, Texas.

Kathy G

Hi Shaun. I'm an old white lady, and I grew up in Texas. And this video is EXCELLENT! I now live in Colorado, but my three brothers (good, liberal Dems all) still live in Texas, and one of them is even a History teacher. I also consider myself an amateur historian, and wrote a book that focuses on certain aspects of American History. All this to say, I know a little about the subject, and I find your take on this stupid report to be spot-on. I especially loved your references to Douglass, and his remarkable July 4 speech. (Even more poignant given that Trump doesn't know who he was.) As regards the use of the word "Negro", I will gladly defer to any POC, but in my experience it is not offensive, especially when quoting someone else, and ESPECIALLY when quoting MLK.

Kathy G

I just reread what you said above about the conclusion not being finished. But going to leave this comment in case you plan on having the joke in the final conclusion.

Joseph Cook-Williams

Whilst I find the ending funny, I find it unfair to say that. As the famous quote of the great MIB philosopher goes “a person is smart, people are dumb...”. I believe this last line undermines the role of projects like the 1776 project and its air of authority in shaping the conversation. A lot of people don’t have time to be critical thinkers. If you’re working 2 jobs to make enough to live then you accept what is told to you as fact. Even if cynical, when do they have the time and/or energy to check it. Just a thought but maybe this last line should focus more on the reasons why people aren’t critical and refer to those in authority, even those who themselves say we shouldn’t listen to those who are experts and therefore have authority! Love the video and think it was really interesting but the last line just sat wrong with me so thought I’d speak up!

Joseph Cook-Williams

You could consider seeing if you can get a black US citizen to read the MLK quotes? That way you can still includes them, but also sidestep the issue of you saying words you might not be comfortable saying on youtube/in public.

Lint

In my History class, we say the word "Negro" if it's included in a historical document. I also will read words such as "colored person" which we wouldn't say in normal speech today. I usually take a moment to say something to my students along the lines of, "There are some words in this document that I normally wouldn't say, and we're only going to use them in their historical context." I typically try to change the word up if I'm not explicitly quoting the text. So I might say, "And what does W.E.B. Du Bois say about the experiences of Black people in the South in this text?" when asking students a question, while the text itself says "Negroes" instead of Black people. But I don't successfully execute this 100% of the time. If we're talking about racism in history, I usually frame the lesson entirely through the lens of anti-racism and I usually try to give students explicit space to express anti-racist thoughts (such as an open-ended question). I'm sure there are other perspectives on this issue but I just wanted to share how I deal with it in my classroom. (If I wanted to read a document that used the hard slur, I'd probably edit it and use [brackets] before it got to my students. I have shown videos where black people say the hard slur when talking about their experiences, and I've given a content warning before showing the video. If were doing some kind of analysis of, say, a rap song, I'm not sure what I'd do with the neologism w/ the open a instead of the hard r. It hasn't come up in my class before but I'm sure it will one day.)

puerto rican here, you made a great point on 13:40 explaining how the u.s isn't really a democracy. It would be really helpful if you mentioned the US treatment of Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans are considered US citizens however they are unable to vote on US elections and lack any true representation in the US congress and house of representatives. As a disclaimer, not saying that the solution is for PR to become a state (since PR status complicated issue), but at the end of the day we lack any true autonomy to decide our political future.

The sound seems very quiet, at least on the version currently there. I had to turn my speakers up quite a bit to listen comfortably, then turn them back down to make my other audio bearable after. I didn't read your comment until after having watched the video, and I personally didn't blink at you using 'Negro' in the MLK quotes. It's not like you're directing it at someone, it's not the OTHER n-word, and it's a historically accurate quote used in context. I've never seen people taking umbrage at that before? But I'm also not Black, so it's not for me to say.

M

As a white European with limited historical knowledge I have nothing meaningful to contribute, just that it was a pleasure to listen to as always, a dollar well spent, thanksxx

Magdalena Milewska

Thanks, Sean!

That is a great video! Your pronounciation of Herbert Marcuse is fine, the e in "Herbert" sounds very English, if you are interested, there is an interview with him on YouTube (Herbert Marcuse: Von der Jugend lernen), no subtitles regrettably, but they say his name in the first seconds. Also probably a bit late in the process for a spring themed skull.

Eyy you're using the same background from the last video. Poggers

Fantastic. Please keep this ending, it is perfect

Ryan Aston

Way better tbh

Ryan Aston

The sound mixing is a bit quiet in this one. Got my phone turned up all the way and it's still a bit quiet to hear well, while I typically watch videos around 60% or so.

Cash Nelson

White Person here. I may have got things a little wrong, but when you argue against capitalism in the first part, it sounds like you are saying the person from the report saying "we 'just' need better capitalism" is wrong. And while I get your point I find the wording pretty harsh. I would simply make it more clear, that it is your opinion there, because otherwise it may sounds like you wanna lecture black people on how to do their criticism. Again, you did not, but imo the wording make it sound like this a little. Also I am very interested in what non-white people think about the quotation of the word you mentioned. I find it weird and would not have said that, but I simply don't know the discourse around this word in the English language. I learned a lot and liked the video and it's length. Maybe it would be nice to credit videos by PoC that also cover this topic? After all I am pretty happy this topic was brought to me, bacaus otherwise I just would have missed it completely.

Lila hat nicht mehr so viel Geld =(

I feel for that teacher, jeez. Science teachers generally aren't debate team types.

Sarah Wilson

I can’t wait for the full version so I can share it!

Pillbughug

It might seem like a "snowflakey" nitpick, but sometimes I really wish when we were talking about slavery, and specifically enslaved people, we would call them just that. "Enslaved people" does something to return some of the humanity that simply referring to them as "slaves" is meant to take away.

Spoodle

Shrek 2 looking a little different than I remember 🤔

Yvonne  ̴ ̮͠ ̴