LukeRanieri

LukeRanieri

Coptic Lesson 8 | "What's your name?" "My name is..."

Added 2022-11-09 07:43:42 +0000 UTC

Coptic Lessons Index

Topics covered in this lesson:

• Review of colloquial expressions

• New conversational phrases

• Numbers 1-7

Comments

Interesting! I must admit I wasn’t aware these spellings were prescribed by the church. Now I’m wondering how far back these variants go. I know of an 18th century Coptic-Arabic-Geʽez dictionary which gives 4 and 5 as እፍጡ (ʾəfṭu) and ዲው (diw). So the ϥ̀ⲧⲟⲩ pronunciation seems to be a few hundred years old at least. ⲧ̀ⲓⲟⲩ looks to be more recent, with ϯⲟⲩ at some point being reanalyzed as tyū and an obligatory helping vowel being added before the newly-formed cluster. And just to be clear, as far as I know the spellings ϥⲧⲱⲟⲩ, ϯⲟⲩ, ⲥⲱⲟⲩ never actually occur (although Allen does write them out this way in his grammar of the Coptic dialects) due to the fact that classical Bohairic texts always write 4, 5, and 6 as ⲇ̅, ⲉ̅, and ⲋ̅. But nevertheless these can be securely reconstructed as the Bohairic cognates to Sahidic ϥⲧⲟⲟⲩ, ϯⲟⲩ, ⲥⲟⲟⲩ, Akhmimic ϥⲧⲁⲩ, ϯⲟⲩ, ⲥⲁⲩ, etc.

2022-11-16 02:47:36 +0000 UTC

Ah look here, what I present appears to be in line with at least Greco-Bohairic: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ⲥⲟⲟⲩ#Coptic https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ⲧⲓⲟⲩ#Coptic https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ϥⲧⲟⲩ#Coptic

2022-11-09 10:23:32 +0000 UTC

I have no doubt those versions are more standard in some regard. Nevertheless, the material I present here is directly from Father Kyrillos Makar of the Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern United States: https://youtu.be/XJkzzoPLw-0 I can only surmise, given that Coptic is highly unstandardized in general, that the numbers I give are comparable to spelling Latin “four” as “quatuor,” which was the standard way for virtually all of Mediaeval and Renaissance Latin, while naturally “quattuor” is in line with the usual spelling of Classical authors. Over time, soloecistic variants eventually become “correct,” as Italian pièno with open vowel from Latin plēnus, and nésso with closed vowel from nexum. These pronunciations in Italian are completely indefensible from an etymological point of view, and indeed are contrary to how the language traditionally was pronounced. Nevertheless, they have since become so common that attempting to “correct” them to their historical sound is a dubious proposition at best. I can only surmise that this is what’s happening here with the numbers from the liturgical Bohairic of the Coptic Church, as I find these spellings elsewhere among Orthodox Coptic specialists. Still, I am interested in a more restored version of Bohairic, something as it might have sounded in Antiquity, so I will demonstrate the numbers as you wrote above in the next video. Ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ!

2022-11-09 10:19:40 +0000 UTC

4, 5, 6 in Bohairic are ϥⲧⲱⲟⲩ, ϯⲟⲩ (/tiw/ not /tju/), ⲥⲱⲟⲩ instead of ϥⲧⲟⲩ, ⲧⲓⲟⲩ, ⲥⲟⲟⲩ. There’s confusion around these sometimes since they’re not usually spelled out.

2022-11-09 10:04:50 +0000 UTC

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