DECEPTION, LIES, AND VALVE - EARLY ACCESS EP 3

I don't know how it works now, back then I used to use some trading bots for TF2 trading (not gambling, a totally legit use of the same tech). Even it that wasn't the case, these casinos make enough money that they could hire a bunch of people managing the Steam transactions manually with normal accounts. And then banning them would be a game of whack a mole

Gna Gnoc

Love your content. Boomer here, I had no idea. Thank you. I became a supporter. Found out about the 30% Patreon Apple app tax. Cancelled support. Renewed support on my computer. Apple strong arming Patreon and others is disgraceful. I imagine your supporters are aware but I wasn’t.

Donna Kato

Bring back fake guru fridays

Max Kavanagh

I was shouting Pachinko since the first spisode. Same issue, just instead of loud balls loud teenagers.

NoNameForNone

csgo?

Blu3Diamond

Can't even find LinkedIn

Teodor Djakov

I can't find his email anywhere and I've seen reports of unsuccessful contact attempts via x/twitter on reddit

Teodor Djakov

i think its best to contact him via x/twitter or email

F

Teodor Djakov

Refreshing too an actual journalist at work. Not only does he present a valid case, with multiple points. It illustrates the behemoth that valve is amongst digital gambling.

Arthur Javier

Dear Coffezilla, I wish you and your loved ones all the best and a wonderful start to the new Year. I hope nothing ever clouds that wonderful mischievous genuine smile you exhibit, fighting the good fight.

Asyouare

Valve? Or Value?

Kaushik Venkatasubramaniyan

I think it would be a cool idea to make one short Patreon exclusive video per series that is full of cut content. Gives the Patreon some more value

Jack Lehmann

No, on a project we want to launch that we've been working on for 10 years now. Thanks for replying

James van der Hoven

Related cs go?

Blu3Diamond

I've been trying to make contact with Stephen via email about a project we're working on. Does anyone have alternative email for him please?

James van der Hoven

For them and their friends, as underage gamblers, skins made the game. If you engage with the comment, you can see that if you’re caught in the gambling scene, it becomes the one thing ‘sticking’ you to the game.

V L

Amazing.

V L

not really, i highly doubt he invested in the skin market lol

Jonathan Hjertkvist

private company, they dont have any obligation. Read TOS before doing anything that touches the systems they own

Jonathan Hjertkvist

I'd argue they're not mutually exclusive. It can be true this is how psychology was first used but it doesn't mean it didn't evolve or was subsequently used for CS:GO

Ada MC

I had a question after watching part 1 or 2, can't recall which, about attacking the issue by regulating lootboxes due to the % of the prizes that can be obtained, and you answered that here, especially in the section about how they went around it in France. The Gambling Industry really finds very pernicious ways of getting their products out there.

Ada MC

Coffee, alert: someone stole your patreon video and put it on YouTube. By the name of Fr_og : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF9h50WzR2c

DragonKing

is that expert guy single

lain harley

Underage gambling is collateral damage to them . Yes it's a negative, but it's an acceptable thing that benefits them in the long run . I personally think it's disgusting behavior by a huge corporation that doesn't need the extra cash . But corporations are going to do what they do best , and that's make money .

Randoir

Cant say that about cs2 tbh

Yoan Gargov

the Lawyer looks like a anime character lol

Critical_Audity

Coffee , i think valve's usage of psychology to improve gambling fees a bit too convenient don you think? The reason i say this is , back in the days it was thought to improve game play experience on their single players games like Hl2 and portal Not trying to support valve here but felt like sharring

Critical_Audity

It all comes down to money. The chinese government actually tried to crack down on loot boxes and other dark patterns with roots in gambling in gaming. That very same day Tencent stock went down 12% (50 billion in market value) and NetEase fell by 25% (15 billion). The chinese government had to quickly reverse their decision.

Paul Dejean

Like the other person said, the game is unparalleled when it comes to esports. The problem is that the foundation this amazing esport scene is built on is gambling. CS was one of the best Esports for over a decade before skins ever became a thing

Djinigami

As long as money is involved they will never stop, once they tasted the top dollar all morals went down the drain, it would be very few people that would CHOOSE to end it.

Dainius Paluckas

Thank you for making this. When I watched your first part, my thought is that the Influencers were worse than the casinos because they were PROMOTING them, and that Valve was the WORST because this is their PLATFORM. If Valve wanted to, as you mentioned, they can shut this whole operation down. Valve say they don't because player's items could be lost. But as we've seen lately with other digital storefronts and services; none of that lasts. Digital "stuff" is not tangible and will be lost at some point. Casinos are casinos, they are gonna gamble and try to skirt the legal lines in an attempt to have as large a customer base as possible while scamming them as much as possible. Those places are inherently scummy, which is why I think Influencers are worse because they are promoting such vile places, however I don't blame some influencers because the money is so large. Even small Influencers are offered so much, that amount of money is life changing to most people. In their position, I would have to have a long think about my priorities if offered such a deal. Of course Valve is then THE worst here since they have the power to fix this problem, and they could have fixed this years ago saving many from addiction and financial ruin. Steam helped them get to the top of a game storefront/library platform, mainly because there was no-one else at the time and they continue to see a large amount of revenue from it. However, I think they get quite a significant amount of revenue from the gambling and this revenue is obviously too big for them to just cut off. Even when they do implement changes, it seems more like a warning to casinos to not step too out of line. So perhaps the money they get from this is a lot but not enough to the point where they could (maybe) cut if off, at least very, very begrudgingly. Gambling can be "fine", just look at gacha games. MiHoYo make millions form people rolling for new characters. New games like Girls Frontline 2: Exilium, Zenless Zone Hero and Arknights: Endfield are much bigger budget games than the ones that came before them and that's because the previous games of those companies/studio's made so much money from gacha it enabled them to make bigger budget games. It's an issue in a way still, people get addicted to it like any other form of gambling, but since there's no third-party trading it's not easy to get money out of the characters besides selling your account. There's also only two ways of getting the gambling currency; ingame or by pulling out your wallet and there isn't any other way to get the characters you want unless the developed gift them further down the line. Although, these games are free-to-play and are heavily promoted by Influencers. Lots of kids do play these gacha games, because they are free to play and are on mobile devices all someone needs to do is tap "download" and they can play the game. Mommy and Daddy's credit card or life savings are just as susceptible to these games as they are to CSGO Casinos but because there isn't the ability to make money, in the same way as CSGO, I think it isn't as bad but I have seen it ruin people's lives still. Gambling is gambling at the end of the day and so is addiction.

PapHew

the game itself is amazing without the skins. speak for yourself

Dereck V

Ive been very interested in this series as i have personally experienced this! I used to play this game since its release and i can confirm that skins is all that makes this game! I also started gambling in this game at the age of 14 probably. I have profited a lot on the cs go lottery websites back in the day, as me and some of my friends joined the website we were waiting for someone with a lot of valuable skins to join and we would snipe him and then share the profit, i was doing it for couple of months, even remembering that we spend days not even playing but just waiting in the websites for gambling! I have personally stopped doing it maybe around the age of 17, but i continued trading skins with people p2p and selling, my account balance in skins when i stopped and withdraw everything was around 20k$, which for a 17 yo was huge! I haven't gambled since and i have never been addicted, my online friends on the other side continued gambling and at one point reached absurd amounts of money for being underage through skins, i can relate to this series and can confirm that everything is as it is! Skins are highly valued in the community especially Chinese players and collectors, every skin has its own unique pattern and float, same skins visually with different wear could be double or even triple in price! Being a grown up now i see that this is a huge huge problem! Valve can solve it within minutes, by disabling the trade option (make the skins untradable) but they will just never do it, as it will destroy their game and a couple billion dollar industry as it stands! All other games i have played have untradable cosmetics, yes they can be rare but they are just for you, as soon as you enable trading you give the cosmetic(skins), a real world value in some way!

Yoan Gargov

Definitely agree, hope my comment didnt come off as "they should not do it at all"

Patrik Frais

Well I hope this video leads to some kind of action, no guarantees of course but at the very least underage gambling needs to be eradicated

Jean-Daniel Proulx

Its still an added barrier and should be pursued, it is clear that one cannot mitigate a very small portion left that are willing to do anything.It is important to have a barrier that keeps them away from such a thing. I Kid would definitely think twice under normal circumstances if they should take the ID.

Lukas

That's true. My original post lacked that information. However, and this is just playing devil's advocate, Valve likely needs the funds that gambling brings them and legally speaking, has no reason to stop it. Like the video pointed out, it's third parties that use the API for gambling purposes and to be frank, nobody below the age of 18 should have the ability to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars of their parent's money without the parents knowing. If I were Valve or Gabe, I'd take a look at what everybody's said about this and ignore it. The product, steam, has the tools for parents to control the amount of spending their kids can do or block purchases entirely. Legally speaking, Valve doesn't really need to do much. But let's say they did, they made a software change and went after international gambling sites...that would take YEARS of litigation and discovery before anything is done. YEARS of legal fees and court battles that drain Valve's coffers. Now, given how pragmatic the company is, it's likely they have some sort of buffer for such a crusade, but why would they spend it? They've been around 20+ years now and own their corner of the market. I think the best option would be to just call it gambling and do some kyc like you and coffee suggested. One thing that's interesting about all of this though is that the problem is very likely not what valve intended to happens. Skins dropped in 2012, I doubt anybody at valve knew EXACTLY what was gonna happen over the coming decade, and when the problem's this large, there's a lot of changes that would need to be made that would cost a lot of money. In the end, acknowledging CSGO markets as a casino and ID-ing individuals is the cheapest and smartest move for Valve to make. Because people will gamble point blank period, and parents will avoid parenting as they should. So this solution is the best of both worlds

Junio

Lol even Chatgpt recognises an issue here. I asked him whether CS case openings can be recognised as gambling and should it be regulated and here is shorted reply: The case openings within Counter-Strike where players invest money for a chance to win something of value, combined with the fact that those virtual items can be traded for real money, makes it much more than just a game mechanic. It introduces the risk of financial loss and addictive behavior, much like traditional gambling. This dual nature of virtual items having both in-game and real-world value makes the system especially tricky to regulate and can blur the line between entertainment and gambling. Players might be more likely to keep spending, chasing that “big win,” and this can lead to financial and psychological consequences, especially for younger or more vulnerable players. The decision to regulate depends on societal attitudes toward gambling mechanics in games and the willingness of governments to address the growing overlap between gaming and gambling.

Ivan Milovidov

It raises a question of what actually distinguishes store credit from 'real money', especially when explicitly denominated in US Dollars and other fiat currencies as it is on Steam, and directly usable to buy products from tens of thousands of different companies.

D

These kinds of psychologists pretty much only work for casinos and casino-like operations like Valve, Zynga or King -- most video game studios do not run these kinds of experiments.

D

Valve uniquely lacks this excuse -- the blame for this is entirely on Gabe Newell, personally. As majority shareholder of a private company, he can do whatever he wants, and this is only happening because he wants it to happen.

D

Valve's general counsel Karl Quackenbush is friends with Senator Maria Cantwell since their RealNetworks days in the 90s.

D

Not all have psychology consultants tbf

Oowoo

Capitalism as always is the problem

Oowoo

CS gambling has always been a proverbial hydra. Very entertaining and informative, but even if this were to insight change like what occurred in 2016, it's likely this issue will be revisited ad nauseam. It won't be until meaningful legislation is implemented by various "impactful" countries that revise how digital items are assessed/taxed based on things like their liquidity that we'll finally start seeing mandatory KYC on all CS gambling websites (à la crypto exchanges).

Active Channel

the reference to the original drama in the title, nice

Loveletters

decent kys requires more than just your ID -- you usually need to take a photo of yourself holding your ID or a piece of paper with something written on it. That being said, these sites will probably implement ineffectual KYC and use their having implemented it at all as further plausible deniability.

Active Channel

There is no more ridiculous a thought than Valve doesn't know if gambling affects their bottom line. Come on. They have the monetary numbers from the skin purchases on their own! And the player base statistics. This is an insane dodge.

judasdubois

The us very rarely ever does anything about companies, and for the foreseeable future its going to be a lot lot worse.

judasdubois

They don't want to. All these casinos/betting sites use weapon skins - their product - as a currency. But the skins have to appear somewhere - in the cases. It is a mutually benefiting symbiosis, because without these casinos, i believe the amount of cases opened would drop significantly, since people love casinos/betting more, than the case opening itself - it just looks more profitable. But it isn't, just like any real life casino or betting site.

Patrik Frais

IMO, the sad truth is - ID'ing won't help. The kids will just take their parents ID and gamble on their names and regulating this would need cooperation between Valve and Governments all over the world.

Patrik Frais

It’s crazy to me how much money is involved in this stuff. I personally don’t know anyone who does it but obviously it’s a huge thing

jack piper

Thanks for the great work on this series. The very end touched a bit more on what Valve/Steam is, their background, etc. I could have used that and maybe a bit more about them earlier. Before watching this, if someone asked me I would have guessed that Steam was owned by Microsoft or some other big game company.

Alex

Absolutely agree with this!

Mosa Altalibi

I'm struggling to understand why Valve hasn't been prosecuted in US despite all the findings from the regulators against them. What else do you need for a court case?

Ivan Milovidov

The Counter-Strike 2 review bombing when?

Serk

that thumbnail goes hard, feel free to screenshot

Thomas the Dank Engine

Find a way. And dont blame others 🤣 even if youre 13. maybe dont play CS in that age and touch Grass? Go into sports club etc. enough opportunities for everyone. Why everybody blaming others instead of doing something. And yes. Valve should fix it that it is possible but the rest is up to everyone else.

sm1th

I’m seeing a glitch around 1:37 but it may be just me?

Mark Turner

Just do both. Who needs ad revenue that's what Patreon is for

L

Can you add a credit for People Make Games for the clip you used? I'm sure they appreciate the feature eitherway

L

It would be helpful if someoene was saying that to the 13 years old who have no idea they're going to have a problem. It woukd be more helpful for these types of temptations to not be out in front of people, and unfortunately for every person saying don't there are 10 making money to say "do" How are you going to stop that? Gambling is clearly an addiction, being glib is not going to help anyone.

Blair Russell

I understand what you mean that Valve is doing what every American company chooses to do, but they don't have to. No one has to, greed is a choice. Valve doesn't have any legal responsibility to make money, it's privately held, they can tank it if they want to and wouldn't have to explain it. Gabe Newell owns over 50% of the company, they claim to have never taken outside funding, so he's actually not answering to a board or anyone else. They could make less money, or the same amount of money, they could give away all of their profits, and they would have no one to answer to. The greed is a choice, Valve is no different that the influencers saying "if they don't, someone else will" and they're probably right, but that doesn't make it moral.

Blair Russell

Thank you for doing these investigations. As someone who runs an org in the scene, it's rough, but gambling sponsors are not the way. Best of luck coffee!

Saben Neale

Good video, personally though, I feel like Valve is just doing what every American company MUST DO when it has investors. IT MUST MAKE MONEY. Valve isn't public, but there's still a board and investors, they have a feduciary and legal responsibility to maintain the amount of money they've been making or make more. When the law of the land is greed, can you be surprised when that greed seeps into literally everything?

Junio

I can see where you might think that. I think maybe he is highlighting the fact that they outright state they are using psychology in their game. Others of course do it too, from food to cars, but they don't usually advertise that they are using it. Hopefully the way i wrote my explanation makes sense.

Sara C.

It looks like the ACMA warning was due to providing online gambling services to Australians without the proper permits. I wonder if the ACCC will eventually look into the false advertising side of these operations?

Isaac Marks

The sad thing is valve could stop this at this second but choose not to. Turn off randomization or make skins free and the well dries up.

Aaron Hardy

The owner of clash.gg (HobbesHD on twitter) has already received a warning from the Australian communications and media authority, thought this might be some valid input: https://www.acma.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-02/Formal%20Warning%20-%20Rust%20Clash%20Entertainment%20Ltd%20%28Clash.gg%29.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Dillon Tynan

Hey coffee i thought it would have been cool to add the fact that grim has a relatively small channel the fact that he could have make 6mil plus while many youtubers would have to reach 10 times his following to make that type of money

John MacLaine

Aaaaand now I need to repurchase all the expansions for my game so the monthly sub doesn’t go through Steam. Only thing I can do as a consumer is not fling money at them.

RiaClerica

Unbelievable work on this. The more I watch, the more I thank all the powers that be I didn't end up tripping into this world.

Puck Gray

I get so excited when I see my boy Quinns show up in videos

Patrick Farabaugh

Thats just an excuse. Work on yourself and fuck that addiction. You are the only own that can change your own behaviour. And i speak with experience. But not addicted to gambling in the past..different stuff. and it worked to quit everything

sm1th

Unfortunately bad actors use tools that download even unlisted YouTube videos, then upload the Copy on their own channel and steal the ad revenue. Wait until it's officially published soon

DaMu

tell an addict that

DaMu

Loved the series, it was worth it to pay 5 dollars to watch it early. The only thing I didn`t like was 4:34, where you say "valve uses psychology to manipulate users" I know you didn`t mean it that way because I`m a gamer, but I heard it like they are the only ones to employ such tactics.

Недялко Добрев

This is such a great series and I'm *so* upset that Valve didn't bother to respond to any of your questions because if anyone could grill them it'd be Coffee and that would be an amazing display!

NotSoSpy

You are correct, my mistake.

Mario Stoilov

Your rant around the 22 minute mark really hits it home. Clearly valve has rightly generated a ton of goodwill by offering a beloved service, but that makes their greed here all the more damning. There's no public stockholders to answer to. No quarterly earnings they have to hit or they're out of a job. CS:GO could still be wildly profitable, just less so, with the side benefit of not ruining the lives of their greatest (and youngest) fans through mechanisms explicitly designed to take all their money.

Kirk Cunningham

That's what he was saying - you can't sell it for "real" money, only Steam wallet credits, which is technically not real money since you can only use it within Steam. You can of course then use that money to buy actual products, like games or even a Steam deck, but in terms of the law this still technically isn't considered gambling.

NotSoSpy

Thank you so much for investigating this, as a longtime CS player it feels long overdue for this to get renewed publicity. I wonder two things: 1) Maybe we need to remove the legal distinction between gambling and sweepstakes. I understand that there are legitimate sweepstakes, but whether it's CS skins, Yotta cash, or other crummy casino environments, that loophole in particular seems well exploited. 2) Valve absolutely, positively has the ability to prevent third-party marketplaces from accessing and transacting your market items. It's malicious that they haven't properly modified this, not ignorance or laziness. I've had friends that have developed gambling problems since being underage. It feels like an incredible injustice to support this ecosystem, perhaps even just by playing, so I feel like I'll have to reexamine my own gaming habits personally. Thanks again for your awesome work, this is why I support you!!

Robbie

So they can find the loopholes. What's the point of the laws then? Question for the authorities. Anyways, glad you share about this. We lack this type of journalism so much

amicus121

A really good video, again. Thank you very much for all your work. A was gambeling a lot on Slotmachines, a few years back when I was unemployed. It kinda helped me to pass the time. I could stop though, because I understood that the odds of winning a lot are really against the players. Would be good if more people understand that on a deep level.

Silverback

Hi! Something that I have always found fascinating is that Valve does not make any KYC checks for AML purposes. I am quite sure that legally speaking Valve should make KYC mandatory (at least in EU).

Aleksi Takala

okay... but why does steam even allow their steam account details to be accessed by third parties or allowed to logon to third party sites with them?... is this like a loophole? steam MUST allow steam account access by third parties because that's how modern games work. so these gambling sites just.... they fill out the correct forms and steams allows them access as a vendor whom you can proxy logon and allow them to read and trade amount steam accounts?

Eric August

Monarch is doing the same thing Valve is doing. While Valve focuses on the evil offshore casinos, Monarch focuses on “unfair” casinos that are rigged. But he operates a casino too, which is naturally rigged and unfair in the favour of the casino. By doing this, Monarch is able to create a group of loyal followers willing to harass people because they think Monarch is doing “the right thing” and they are angered about their own gambling addiction. Meanwhile, Monarch is hinting that his casino has better odds than other casinos or that it is “more fair”, which isn’t actually true but it does drive more users to his casino than to his competitors.

Ryan Hartigan

If Valve takes action on this, maybe they will shift focus and finally finish HL3 :-P

Brandon William Thomas

Looks like it's time to migrate to GOG

Fan38264

I'd have to argue the part "you can't cash it out in the steam store". Not directly, no. But these skins have a community defined value. And you CAN sell your game items on steam store, including these skins. I, personally, when I was addicted to Dota 2, have had the situation where I open a chest for 4 euros, get a rare item from it, and sell this item on the steam store for 12 euros. All within the steam client.

Mario Stoilov

Fantastic video! Whenever you play clips from other channels, it is super helpful to have their channel name overlaid on the video somewhere. The creator's name will be much more sticky to the viewer that way.

Shadoninja

MONEY is the reason .

Randoir

Having grown up on Counter Strike and Half Life, it’s sad to see I need to watch my kids for gambling behavior if I let them get into it.

Stephen Ford

Hey, investigator extraordinaire—what a "true detective" you are! Let me take you on a deeper dive into the fascinating interplay between deception and perception in this space. Consider Sparkles, a figure whose series chasing the mythical Dragon Lore skin has captivated audiences. The sheer dollar value of this endeavor borders on fantastical—yet, the total cost remains conspicuously absent. This omission plays a significant role in shaping the audience’s perception. To many, Sparkles appears to achieve these extraordinary feats with effortless ease, reinforcing the allure of his character. But is that really the full story? Deception often thrives where perception is left unchecked. Sparkles’ subtle shift from promoting gambling site-fueled "trades" to encouraging the acquisition of "contracts" is a masterstroke in narrative manipulation. By using the term "contract," there’s an implicit association with legitimacy—a strategic choice of language that might make the entire operation seem more trustworthy, more structured, even as it perpetuates similar outcomes. What’s truly clever (and concerning) is how these layers of perception work to obscure the underlying reality. The glamorized pursuit of these skins, the unspoken sums involved, and the shadowy sponsorships all weave together into a narrative that the average viewer may never question. And when someone does question it, well, as I’ve personally experienced, a quick shadow ban suggests there’s more here than meets the eye. So, where does perception end and deception begin? And how much of what we see is shaped to keep us from asking the hard questions?

Alexius Skalin

Just dont buy cases.. it is very simple

sm1th

I love being here and this is not a complaint, but maybe you could consider posting these videos with a YouTube mirror link that goes to an unlisted YouTube video? Jenny Nicholson does that, and it makes it much easier to listen to in the car and cast to the tv.

Amanda Crispino

Really good work and really highlights the loot box, gambling problem. Value should be made to make changes as they obviously won't do it willingly but whilst the most noticeable, they are part of a much bigger problem. I came because of the lawsuit, I am here because of this sort of necessary work.

b.evil.c

It's a shame Valve will just continue to shrug it off or respond in token fashion, but its worth periodically reminding people all the same. They want to be a casino, fine, but make then admit it.

Kieran Elliott

I wish the hThe furture back you pull this issue the bigger it gets. Hole industry would just be struck with regulation and we can get rid of these loot boxes and gambling practices. But that is unlikely to happen.

Leo

He who controls the Skins controls the universe

Felix May

I was addressing the part of the video in which he was comparing lootboxes with gambling. Yes Valve should definitely do more to fight these casinos.

Gna Gnoc

That will have a tonne of collateral damage though. A lot of sites use that for non nefarious purposes. Blocking inventory access though would effectively shut down all gambling economy. It would also impact other sites, but it would be a lot cleaner.

VeryProfessionalDodo

I used to play TF2, over the years I bought/traded quite a few valuable cosmetics. All in all it costed me less to play TF2 for six years than it costs to play any yearly released AAA shooter for half as much, and I had cool cosmetics while at it. When the Steamdeck Dock release I hadn't been playing TF2 for a few years, so I sold my old cosmetics and paid for it with that money. I never gambled, I never abused the system. If the only way to solve underage gambling is to get rid of it, so be it, but in no way is Valve marketplace more scummy than all other games not allowing me to trade or sell my digital content. I see the problems with how the system is abused, and still, there's added value in it. It's not a problem exclusive to Valve, WOTC has the same problem with recognizing the secondary market for Magic cards, if they did, booster packs would be considered illegal underage gambling in many jurisdictions.

Gna Gnoc

In Islamic law, what Valve is doing would seemingly be classified as illegal as it falls under the category of "ri-baa", i.e., conducting a transaction in which there is an unfair advantage. The purchaser is not made aware of what they will receive from their purchase.

Chris Baines

So glad the PMG doc got a mention. They make good shit!

Niall Mac

Noone asked for Valve to completly remove Loot-Boxes. You're right that that is an industry-problem. Valve should however shutdown illegal third party trading sites.

Storymaker

Just wanted to say that you're doing amazing work! Valve is for some reason treated by many as a messiah of gaming, while it's more like they are the messiah of underage gambling. Thank you for showing your audience that Valve is not really the "good" company. I hope that your series about Counter Strike Gambling will finally impact the situation, and all this stuff will finally be put to an end. I simply really hate how Valve massacred the game of my childhood - we went from chill community servers in Counter Strike 1.6, to underage gambling streamers in Counter Strike GO / 2. Thank you for doing a deep research and exposing Valve for what they did!

keeno

One interesting thing would be GTA. In GTA you can buy shark cards, you can't cash these out either but you can take the money that the shark cards provide to the literal in game casinos. You also have in GTA RP servers that don't typically have legal limits the ability to get into gambling without using actual cash.

Adam Frost

No, he’s a journalist, he doesn’t have the means nor the knowledge to do so. Doing it will only get him destroyed. Besides, Valve isn’t breaking any laws, they work around them, so there is no case to begin with. The only thing he can do is what he just did, make a great video that points the finger towards the party that can make the change, but refuses to do so. Coffe can’t force them, but he can sway the public opinion enough to make a meaningful impact.

Alex

WOTC doesn't sell Magic singles to avoid assigning them a "real world value" and avoid gambling laws too. And pretty much every TGC shop "independently" sells and buy singles.

Gna Gnoc

Those sites have Steam accounts they use for those trades.

Gna Gnoc

Skill issue

Lee Hernandez

Why stop at digital lootboxes? TGCs are just the same and use the same loopholes as CSGO casinos to avoid being regulated as gambling. Baseball cards are lootboxes without even a game to hide behind.

Gna Gnoc

It would be so easy for Valve to disable their API or Steam sign-in to third-party sites. They must be making too much money to even think of stopping it.

Heinrich Thiart

I think this problem goes well beyond Valve itself. If anything, believe me or not, if we all agree Valve has an underage gambling problem, then they're the tip of that particular iceberg, just the least concealed expression of it. Valve could argue in good faith that their particular version of underage gambling is the least predatory because it's as overt as it can be. Recently Balatro's dev got a 18+ PEGI rating on their game because it features poker cards and rules. The dev joked that it should add micro transactions and loot boxes like FIFA to get the rating back to 3+. If in CS you pull the slot lever to get a nice skin, in FIFA you do to build your whole competive team, one pull after the other. If CS is F2P and updated regularly over the years, in FIFA you have a new 70$ game to buy every year. And if in CS you have the skins in your Steam inventory and can trade or sell them, in FIFA you get refreshed every year and start from scratch with the "new" game. But even then, EA (who liked FIFA loot box model so much that its inventor became their CEO) can in totally good faith claim that they just digitalized a major form of entertainment for kids around the world. And that's the crux of the matter. If lootboxes are slot machines, then Pokemon, Magic The Gathering and You-Gi-Oh are all underage gambling too. And they're not only a much more pervasive and profitable market, but also completely socially accepted and uncontroversial. This is not a "what about" it's just the explanation of why regulation on this fails over and over. WOTC even uses the same excuse as Valve on why booster packs aren't gambling. The cards have no official value, as they don't officially sell singles. Pretty much every shop does, the secondary market for it is a crucial part of every TGC ecosystem, but they never do it directly, as a loophole to circumvent gambling laws. They could solve it. Just scrap the rarity system or, even more radically, just do away with boosters entirely. But they won't do it, because, deep down, it's the dopamine rush of a slot machine pull that keeps the whole TGC industry up. Regulation will fail because people are nostalgic of their football and baseball cards (which are even more egregious that TGCs or videogame lootboxes as they are the lootbox without even a game around it), they won't see it as the slot machine that it really is. They will try to get lootboxes recognized as gambling in the Court only for any lawyer to show them that the toy industry has been dominated by "surprise mechanics" for decades and it's never been controversial.

Gna Gnoc

as much as i love the steam platform, their executives and gabe himself as just another bunch of greedy hustlers. off the top of my head, making skins untradable outside of steam itself should have a massive impact. unless i'm misunderstanding..... i mean how you can trade your steam skin to an outside market unless steam allows it?

Eric August

You should start a class action lawsuit like the swedish kid against mojang

Cyrill Oppikofer

Well done.

Jan Jensen

It's bizarre that on one hand Valve can claim these things "have no real world value", but then people suggest they can't shut down trading because "it would destroy the market value", which is supposedly 0? This is all horribly parasitic. Just turn off all the APIs for trading this stuff outside of the games. To be honest, the whole thing is disgusting.

Tristan Colgate

Saying a company shouldn't do the terrible thing because then another company would do the terrible thing is a >terrible< argument.

Jan Jensen

Great fucking work. Hope you’ll get the leverage to have Steam respond ✊

Grégoire Nedelcovici

Amazing series, that's why I support you! Thanks a lot!

Jakub Turan

Agreed with this - they've been open about how their use of psychology is focused on understanding the nuances of game implementation details - see the director notes for L4D2 and other things. I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it, but it weakens the argument to malign the use of psychology in game design, especially with regards to the *actual* steamworks talk that you pulled that quote from, in which a: it's entirely focused on DOTA as its case study, and B, is entirely focused on ingame decision making and biases. It's manipulative and a bit scummy to use a clip from a 45-minute talk that doesn't have anything to do with the monetization aspects, and ultimately weakens your case in ways that are unnecessary.

SevenDeadlySins

Did you reply to the wrong comment? 😭

WoodMM2

One of your best series for sure, loving it

René Klačan

Hey maybe Valve could learn something from Coffeezilla. Like learning how to count to three!

Kevin DeBruin

The Knives Out inspired thumbnail is top tier!!

K Marie

I find it hard to envision any change without the actual casinos using the same loopholes to advertise being punished first. They’re all grown in the same garden. Stake was a RuneScape casino before they converted the site to a real one, once these sites become big enough you no longer have to hide the fact you’re a casino just use different more expensive loopholes to advertise around the globe. Why am I seeing stake adverts on TV in the uk if they don’t accept uk customers, for example? Loved the series, would love to see a future investigation into the actual casinos that grew using the same methods

Jord M

Great case study of the destructive and downright nefarious force of unregulated or underregulated capitalism. If you will make more money by hurting more people, someone is going to do it, and so the market forces everyone to do it. We can (rightfully) critize individuals for their individual actions, but nothing substantial is going to change without systematic action that alters the incentive structure. Its a universal problem: see e.g. health care etc.

who, me

I don't think you should feel bad. It's a personal decision how to react to this news, but I would think that you could absolve yourself of any guilt by just spreading the word about these videos. Game developers would still want you to be enjoying their games, however you want!

D

Thank you for taking the time to share your story and perspective. It’s really important for people to hear firsthand experiences like yours.

D

That's a good point. It's mostly relevant here in that it makes it impossible for Valve to be unaware of the psychological and economic impact of their decisions, given their employ of multiple full-time psychologists and economists.

D

Yes, Valve owns Steam. Now that Valve was forced to removed forced arbitration from their agreements, anyone harmed by this skins gambling could team up to file a class action lawsuit against Valve, and possibly get their money back.

D

yea... they aint gonna kill the goose that shits money

Paul Kang

Damn, thanks for letting me know.

Canyoueventakeit

Given how widespread the lootbox practices are in games, it is possible the only remedy is laws being passed to prevent underage gambling. Even if Valve were to stop this for csgo, there are hundreds of other games doing the same thing, if not worse. Seems pretty clear society isn't better off with people funneling millions/billions into production of useless digital goods, but who can prevent them from doing the same thing into something else? Perhaps they could pass a law where all such lootbox interactions are required to have a button right next to it where you can donate the money to some reputable charity instead? Granted people could try to game that system as well. Though if the donation had some in-game vanity benefit as well, maybe it could work? In any case, thanks for investigating and highlighting the topic!

Ian Rosenbery

Yes, Valve owns Steam.

WolfsQuill

In 2008, there were loot boxes ('decoders') in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Strike_Online In 2005, there were ads for real-money gambling in Counter Strike itself: https://tlundmark.blogspot.com/2005/12/in-game-advertising.html

D

Valve sent me a 1099K in 2013 for Steam Community Market sales. Except I couldn’t cash out the money. Let me know if you want the proof

Nathan

This is why I cant really take this video series seriously. He wants to frame CS as this slot machine game and nothing more when it is the most popular and arguably greatest shooter of all time. Skins don't have value because of gambling they have value because you play with them. Additionally, you can buy the skins you want directly from Steam or a 3rd party marketplace with no issues and no gambling attached. It's the same thing as Pokémon cards lmao: you can either rip packs to get the best card in the set or buy the chase card itself. People have free will and on top of that valve does not shove lootboxes in anyone's face like other games do. Also he didn't even mention that Valve added the rental system so if you want you can literally play with any skin the the game lmao.

FluorideStare

That is fair that it is hard to monitor 24/7, I don't have any kids myself so I can't really judge tbh. My father had given me a credit card when I was a teen and he would monitor the spending on monthly statements that were sent home to see what transactions and how much was being spent. But again, even if Valve did stop it another avenue would pop up. There's all kinds of crypto casinos and other vices (porn addicts who spend on OF and other stuff for example) online. You can't expect every company to be so moral and the internet to be such a happy go lucky place

DaPengy

Damn, if Coffee's studio cost 10 million dollars, Valve's must cost, like... 11 million.

Ross Vincent

I think shuttering the gambling to under-age is the first, and probably only, safe option Valve can truly take. The fact they haven't is disappointing, but having worked on the other side before, there is an element of truth to "They can't truly stop us." I've seen the extents these sites will go to, even going so far as to trade whole accounts. But I think the line in the sand is the same now as it was when I first got roped into this whole thing about a decade ago. Once skin trading is shut down... well, my second ever freelance employer had something to say: "Don't worry about valve changing the rules. We are more adaptability. We'll make a hundred new companies if we have to. Unless they permanently ban trading, we'll be fine. *And Gabe knows we have their data too. He cares too much about his employees to actually stop this.*" I am so glad I was a small fry on their dev team. Walking away a week into starting was the sanest thing I did. I've known people less lucky. EDIT: Want to add that this in no way excuses them creating this monster in the first place, nor suggests that profits *arent* a motivation. they def are. And they still are best poised to solve this. Just a wrinkle to know about, cause this almost certainly has some effect on what they do/say.

Faer-Anne

According to tf2 official wiki the first release of loot boxes named Mann Co. Supply Crates in the update Mann-comony update in September 30th, 2010. idk much about it other than it's a prior valve system that pre-dates CS:GO, and has similar aspects with hats and wetnot. Source: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann-Conomy_Update

Canyoueventakeit

Well sometimes maybe the parents are to blame. But don't paint with such a broad brush. When my son, who lived away from me, received a "child friendly" debit card from me as a birthday present when he turned 13, I thought it would help him learn money habits and how to budget etc. Figured he would spend it on school lunch extras, maybe some snacks on his walk home after school, perhaps save some of it to buy his mom and sister a Christmas present, etc. Instead, almost all of it went to game skins. He developed the addiction soooo fast, we didn't realize what had happened until it was too late. It's on the game creators to put a stop to it. Parents of teens usually can't watch over their kids 24/7.

portlandpixel

My sentiment is that if Valve were to shutdown gambling sites for good, heads would roll... literally. There is no doubt in my in my mind that some of these websites are used for money laundering or other criminal activities. A YouTuber that goes by "Madskillzzhc" recently uploaded a video saying he is quitting World of Warcraft and will stop making videos because he is getting death threats. They threatened his life and well as his family's because his content revolved around killing "bots" in the hardcore version of the game (meaning you only have one life and need to start over everything if you die), which are used by people to farm in-game currency that they later sell on shady websites. It's understandable that people would kill those bots for fun because they lessen the experience for everyone, as they are not controlled by humans. But, more often than not, those same bots are run by organizations, often based in third-world Countries, who depend on them to make a living. Same as Blizzard, I think Valve have let this issue go for so long because of the money it made them that there is no turning back now without major consequences for literally everyone involved.

Vincent Desroches

glad to be supporting this!

Longthorn

gambling creators who create a false reality of winnings for promotion should be held liable as well

DaPengy

Not at all...we should also investigate the parents of these children...parents for some reason have no fault in this and allowing it to happen? the kids are getting money from them..

DaPengy

Sounds like the argument of a gambling creator... 21

Jonah

its also not just my wallet...its a 3.4 billion $ market many of whom are people who have nothing to do with gambling

DaPengy

In my honest opinion all gambling is bad (kids and even adults)...but I feel like even if Valve stopped it completely and shut it down it wouldn't really do anything...another avenue would just open through crypto casinos etc. Governments HAVE to step in and stop this.

DaPengy

true

DaPengy

Legal loopholes are the "well actually (nerd emoji pointer-finger emoji)" of the world. Like we all know what it is, they know what it is, and it's that much more frustrating when that's enough for them to get away with it. Someone made a good point about the amount of money tied up in this currently. Billions of dollars... that's a large number... envision it as credit card debt.. unpaid mortgage.. overdrafts.. no groceries. If Valve shuts this down.. what will happen to this market, all the people invested, if all their values go to zero. VALVE is not going to be the one to cash them out. They won't even claim responsibility I bet. They'll skirt around with their well actuallys. This is a tricky situation... but Valve is terrible for letting this happen in the first place. Also, they own steam? Did I hear that right?

Shivani

When I used to play csgo I had gotten a $300 knife out of a loot box after only opening like 10 cases ever. Then my steam account procceds to get so many accounts adding me for that knife skin. And one day someone tried to trade it with me and I told them no they called me a scammer and hacked my steam account and took the skin. I have since deleted the game and will never touch it again thanks to the experience. Amazing that you are bringing to light this awful ongoing situation.

Aron

You are apart of the problem and this comment shows how selfish you are. Kids are being destroyed and your only worry is your damn wallet.

Bryce Arneson

Casual customers don't use gambling sites to buy/sell skins. Well... No one does to be honest. Because gambling site cashing out rates are too low compared to peer-to-peer community marketplaces. These marketplaces have KYC and don't have roulette wheel attached and are only for trading /selling items. Normal customers, gamblers, investors buy assets for cheaper price than steam market and do whatever they want afterwards.

Rokas

Painful to see Valve in this light as I so often like to see them as good guys, but this research and story is just so compelling Coffee. Amazing work, and I appreciate the effort. I hope it does get their attention (and, just to note, I appreciate the cake reference. More of that, less gamba Valve, please)

Ham_Radio

I would love to see a video about RMT sites dedicated to MMORPGS.

Joseph Colombo

Bruh I've been on Steam since early days. Always said Skin/Loot Boxes are gambling for kids. Its crazy how long its taken to hit main stream AGAIN.

Joseph Colombo

@ rokas You heard valve the items are worthless. they have zero value. its not billions of dollars of items its just fun money steam bucks. It only has value when you use a mostly exploitive and illegible third party gambling site to cash out. It sounds like the only value is made off of child exploitation and gambling addicts, that sounds fine to shut down if people only derive profit from exploiting these vulnerable groups.

johnny R

One of my best friends in high school made around 8k in one semester by abusing these loopholes, we were 14. Valve has the key to end it. Keep it up my man, the truth always comes out.

NotTheGM

Solid reporting, thank you!

Christophe

Phuck

Denis Mercure

It’s sad to think Valve really doesn’t want to get involved. Steam is a great platform but all the CS skin shit will forever be a stain on them as a company

Deion Prince

Around 2 years

xtoxicwizzy

That’s just open gambling lol

Devin Bender

Regarding TheDecompiler's thoughts. If you look at this problem from moral standpoint, you should clearly realize that assets worth billions of dollars being frozen from players unrelated to underaged gambling or any other illegal activities isn't really "good faith" argument, is it? Your argument is obviously more bad faith than mine, because your solution fucks over everyone who owns valve products and who is unrelated to underaged illegal gambling. The only solution, as I said, would be to implement KYC to allow trading and buying keys for cases, and follow government rules on gambling regulation. But this solution would fuck digital goods economy the same way because of VAC banned accounts problem.

Rokas

Really really great series! Love the work as always. Top rate investagitive journalism. Feels great to know my tiny patreon contribution helps support this. I hope more and more join.

Neil P

there is no solution, they can provide the platform but its ultimatly a gambling system built on top of an open user account driven database

DIGI

Another great series Coffee. I had no idea that CSGO had all of this going on, and I always thought Steam was one of the "good" companies. Thank you for the work you continue to do.

Daniel Goldhorn

This is incredibly bad faith argument, and ignores the proposed resolution of them admitting that the loot boxes are gambling and therefore regulated under gambling laws in each territory they operate which Valve does not do. Furthermore you bought a virtual item for a video game, it should never have real world value and Valve clearly leverages gambling to inflate the "value" of these assets for that exact purpise. Finally coming to the defense of VAC banned accounts?! If you were banned for cheating you should forfeit any virtual item bought as part of the TOS. This is not an "incredibly hard" problem that is dishonest, this was a problem valve created and there is an easy resolution: stop allowing trading, stop the lootbox practice, and just set a fixed price for your skin sold directly to customer. The idea a problem they intentionally created is "hard" to resolve is ludicrus.

TheDecompiler

That's going to be hard for me, it easy for me to get games through it, and it's my only way of playing pc games. Unless I'm given a reason such as value being sued with their sales being net hold, I can't bring myself from giving it up or the store.

Nemo1045

If a market crashes because because someone said "Hey let's stop giving kids gambling addictions" then it deserves to crash.

Daniel Goldhorn

Honestly I own a steam deck and will now only use it to play the games that I have already purchased, and refunded all purchases made in the latest Winter Sale. I can't personally stand by a company that allows child gambling. No more purchasing from the Steam Store until Valve actually address this issue. Even then, I'd have a sour taste in my mouth knowing they allowed this for 8+ years. I will likely move to GOG.

Jonah

I don't think valve has liquidity to implement cashing out. Their business model is much different than third-party marketplaces who use steam trading feature. They reinvest the money they gain from steam funds into the company so i don't know if it's even possible too. But then again, in this regard, i don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Rokas

well Arrow is also one who ABUSED valves systems of getting certain items in cs2 to bennefit from their in game shop so he could use theese stars (certain in game currency) that he gained for whatever his wants and needs was inside the game. Accuser is often the abuser. And guess what he got trade banned and rightly so.

Jonathan Hjertkvist

I mean how hard is it for them to write "I used to like Coffeezilla"

Seth Munroe

Valve will have to cash them out. They've got the money. Look at DraftKings when they shut down Reignmakers.

D

3k over a year? 8 years? a month?

EnthusiasticOwl

if they didn't have data to support it, they'd have data to refute it. He IS essentially saying they don't have any data.

EnthusiasticOwl

trying to make other people feel worthless just because you are isn't going to help.

EnthusiasticOwl

CS Item Market Cap, owned by customers, who can sell it for real-world money, is at least 3.626 Billion Dollars. If valve touches peer-to-peer trading and disables it, all that money is gone from customer hands. So 3.626 Billion Dollars lost by normal customers/traders is better than hundreds of millions lost by gambling junkies? This problem is somewhat paradoxical and impossible to solve. The only solution would be KYC implementation, but then again - if by law and TOS, CS2 skins have real-world value, what happens with vac banned accounts? Is it theft from customers, who cheat in a game, to disable market for the assets they own? And if they allow trading from the accounts that are banned - the whole market crashes because of sudden huge supply increase from thin air - and yet again - normal customers lose. This problem is incredibly hard. There's a reason why Valve didn't do anything and refuse to comment.

Rokas

people have a lot of money invested in these skins...if the values tank because of this Coffeezilla essentially rug pulled every skin owner.

DaPengy

And effectively rugpull everyone who has money in their investment?

Trip

not at all. the steam deck isnt just a cs2 gamba machine, its an awesome piece of tech.

lakersbaby

I don't say this to undermine anything in this video, but I just wanted to note that it is not unusual for game studios to hire people with knowledge in psychology or similar fields for not malicious purposes. Psychology is an important topic in game design. Knowing how people think can help you design your game so that you can teach players how to play properly or help them go in the right direction. This is of course also used to make people spend more money in applicable games, but just wanted to say that simply hiring a guy like this isn't unusual even for games made in good faith. Great video, been binging your whole channel for the past couple of months and I hope Valve actually does something about this because this is such a huge ugly stain on an otherwise pretty awesome company.

Dennis Löfgren

yap yap yap do you shut up man

WoodMM2

I got my first job at 14, saved up for a PC and started playing CS:GO. Skins were all anyone talked about. You would join a match and see a guy swinging around his brightly colored gem-looking skins and knives and all you wanted was to match that level. I began using my extra funds after buying a PC (considered it "free money" since there was "nothing left to save for") and it was so easy to say "ill do just 5 more dollars" the way that the steam funds work is to get you to spend 5 dollars, leaving you yearning for more. Eventually, you were 25-50 dollars deep in a given day. You'd stop yourself, only to wake up the next day and dread looking at your bank statement. It became a game of mindless spending and ever-yielding rewards. I had earned a skin at the age of around 15 after spending roughly $800 and the knife I had at the time was worth that amount! I lucked out, I had beaten the system and it was a cool knife. The thing about this real world value, anybody can take it and everyone wants to. I was shortly contacted by a guy claiming he would trade my knife for a more valuable one. It was really stupid of me and makes no sense in hindsight, but I gotten scammed out of $800 (which has since inflated to nearly 2k!) Scamming creates an even bigger rift in someones wallet, not only do the scammers have incentive to keep scamming and pedaling skins, but players feel the need to "recoup their losses" There's a feature in the steam OS where you can view how much money you have spent in a single game, not including the price of taxes/purchasing from the community market. By the time I was 16 years old I had spent over $2,500 in CS:GO keys alone. over the course of 2 years I paid out $2,500 dollars that could have gone towards my first car, my college tuition, any sort of future purchase. Instead, it was in the hands of valve and some guy in Taiwan. The system is built to be predatory. You crave opening a case because "it might be your lucky day" then you buy just a couple. $5 dollars is nothing, to some, so you rationalize spending ANOTHER $5 and the cycle continues. The reason creators can make a living opening these cases is very simple, they are not only paid to do so, sponsored to do so, but they have the disposable income. If you are growing up in a middle to lower class reigion you don't have that disposible income. It SEEMS like you do when you're so young because "overtime ill save up enough money anyways" Yes, I have very poor money management skills, believe me I am aware. But, this can and does happen to ANYONE. That's the issue, there is no ID, it seems like just a small purchase one time, then it's multiple times, then it's multiple times a day. There were weeks were I would RUN OUT OF MONEY and would have to wait for my paycheck just to buy more cases. In total I have spent nearly $5,000 in Cases alone, and I am lucky ( INSANELY LUCKLY) to have actually recouped a lot of my losses and made it barely under even. This money management has followed me throughout my life and the thousands I wasted on virtual pixels keeps me up at night. I really appreciate you making this video, because Valve is 99% to blame for the CS:GO skin market, because they created and facilitate it. There is no excuses, it is an underage gambling ring thats pushed in your face the entire time youre on the game, watching a creator, watching the VALVE SPONSORED ESPORTS EVENTS, there is no escaping the tantalizing glow of the cases. Do not buy any cases, if you want to gamble, gamble in the stock market smartly with non-essential disposable income. If what I did sounds stupid, it is. I hope you can find solace knowing you are smarter than me, and hopefully you can show these videos to a friend of yours who is struggling with the addiction.

WoodMM2

The thing that sets this situation apart is the fact that although the gambling is a big part of Counter Strike, it is also an incredibly popular game outside of the gambling aspects. 1.5mil+ players concurrently and although a sizeable amount of those players might be gambling, opening cases, etc a vast majority are just playing the game. I think that's also one of the main reasons Valve is so scared to take action. They are scared that if the CS skin market collapses, the everyday regular person who threw 50 bucks into some skins will lose trust in CS because his skins are now worth 20 bucks and he feels like he got ripped off. Especially considering those people are the vast majority of players in CS (gamblers make up a small % of cs players). It's a bubble, and it's inflating the value of skins beyond what average people would/could spend on them. Valve knows eventually it has to pop but they are trying to find ways to deflate it (unsuccessfully so far) rather than risk losing everything by popping it.

Erik Buettner

"Valve did not reply".. mmm, familiar

Tewan

It's crazy, cause valve don't even TRY to stop it. No percentages on the site, no kyc, encouraging gamba with the weekly case drops (Rewarding players for playing csgo by giving them a case, makes them feel like they should open this case.)

eigo simps

My brother in christ... that's addiction. Get some help and live a better life! You got this.

Riley Callahan

This series tipped the scale for me, had to sub to the patreon. Great work Coffee, much appreciated. I've said for ages Valve had NFTs years before crypto ever had the idea, in the form of "skins".

noxn21#8508

new Armory system probably gonna be enough to skirt rules again for 4-6 years

Evan Chevalier

ANOTHER ONE!

Dawit Samuel

Good work coffee

Rebecca Succes

I’ve worked in the games industry, sadly I think it is fundamentally broken at the moment. As a colleague said to me years ago before last, the games industry is at a similar level of maturity to that of the film industry when it just started to make talkies. The issues run so much deeper than just loot boxes, but they’re a perfect microcosm of everything that’s broken.

Michelle D'israeli

It is intentionally vague, and i agree with you. What i take issue with is Coffee focusing in on this point as if he said "we dont have the data" whilst ignoring the exact words that have been said. It's framing a snippet from and interview for his own narrative that's so common with corrupt media. Ultimately it's not necessary and the point can be made without twisting what's been said.

Jay Hunter

Valve requiring age verification would be admitting that it's gambling. Making skins have any value in the first place was the mistake. Make them non-tradeable, problem solved.

Mark

Should I feel bad for owning a steam deck?

Nemo1045

"We don't have any data to support that" is intentionally vague. It could mean they have no data, it could mean the data is inconclusive, it could mean anything. But you can be damn sure that if the data showed that gambling was NOT a positive, they would not be vague about it.

Mark

Great series Coffee, thank you. I'm afraid the sad reality is that this is never gonna change, unless by legal force. And if that happens, the entire CS2 ecosystem needs to change. From buying cases to esports. Because in this story, if you try to do the good thing, you probably end up losing it all.

MXRSE

love the cs series coffee, but its kinda sad as a counter strike player since GO's release, that nothing you said was new information for us in the cs community. Good luck trying to hold Valve accountable.

lakersbaby

Sadley everything in life seems to be a loop home these days. The issues is eyes are everywhere now. Even 20 years ago there were less people willing to research how companies were screwing customers, we all knew it but couldn't prove it.

Anthony Headley

Bit harsh on valve as you said, but the way you’ve put this argument together I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually does result in them being incentivised to fix the problem.

Pat Mifsud

Valve doesn’t care about underage gambling because the company makes billions of dollars a year from it....

Tpbraut Braut

I feel that, once posted to YT, this will absolutely E X P L O D E.

Lebon14

REMEMBER THAT THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS!!!

Tpbraut Braut

that closing line was goated

TinderSamurai

I loved that you pulled no punches with this series.

James Goines

i've personally lost 20k+ on these gambling sites and can for sure say everyone who plays on these sites, knows for a fact they will lose but still come back everyday to gamble.

steven

"And we all know that *that* kind of cake is a lie" might be the hardest line you've ever said lmao. This is, by far, your most impressive work yet and I'm truly in awe. Great job Stephen, or should I say, gg no re

angelfacepeanut

i fucking love this guy he doesn't give a shit about these assholes felling's

Taha Aljanabi

should have brought on bossmanjackk lol

Tristan Mmmerjil

IP Arguments: They will proxy/churn/vpn their site to a new host. Legal: Offshore Patches: What are they going to patch for them but not for us? I think age verification is the way to go, a lot of people will loose a lot of money if this scene is de-valued entirely.

Trip

Love the content coffee, but I don't like how you frame the statement made by a valve employee at around 15:00. It's not "we don't have any data" they state "we don't have any data to support that" they are indicating that the data they do have isn't in support/agreement. If that statements accurate is a different question.

Jay Hunter

TO STOP A GABEN

TheCoolKidzOTB

Never like this game

Jeremy Strickland

Amazing work as always Coffee. This is what journalism is.

Fernando Parnes

I’ve personally spent around 3k on opening cases. And I hate it but love gambling 😂

xtoxicwizzy

yuhhhhhh

Tristan Mmmerjil

LETS GOOO

TinderSamurai

Thank you for your work.

Kevin MCLT

Ohohohoho here we go. Extremely excited for this one...

angelfacepeanut

Lets goooooo, the wait is finally over

Apoorv Singh