EP 2: Exposing the Counter-Strike Gambling Industry - EARLY ACCESS!
Added 2024-12-18 22:41:49 +0000 UTCThis video is the heart of the gambling story, the nuts and bolts of how CS2 offshore gambling works, why it's hard to stop, and why casinos, influencers, and esports teams are in a race-to-the-bottom of this dirty industry.
At the heart of this, everyone KNOWS intuitively there is a large underage problem, and gambling addiction is rampant, but no one has actually fixed it.
In this episode we take a close look at all the stakeholders, what their reasonings are, and try to understand how we can fix this broken system.
Comments
Please see my reply to uya and NotSoSpy above, as I don't wish to CXV and, therefore, be spammy, but I know that it's plausible because of an accent idiosyncracy in Bellevue, Ky, which has a British accent even though its neighbors a dozen blocks in any direction (Dayton, Newport, and Fort Thomas, Ky) have the same Appalachian accent as the rest of Northern Kentucky where I'm at. It's strange, but here in Kentucky, fact is stranger than fiction.
Nicholas Rednour
2025-01-23 03:47:25 +0000 UTCTo that point, I live in Northern Kentucky, and can see downtown Cincinnati, Ohio from my window and can walk to a Reds/ Bengals game in about 20 minutes (or could the last I tried several years & 35 lbs. ago). Being from New Orleans, I notice the Appalachian accent of most people here. However, I've found that people who grew up and have lived their whole lives in Bellevue, Ky sound British, even though just a dozen blocks in either direction in Dayton, Ky to the east, Newport, Ky to the west, and Fort Thomas, Ky to the south, they have the same regional accent as everybody else around here. It's to the point that when I mistook an employee at NKU, when I was a physics major at the time, as British, he said that he gets that a lot and several international students from the UK asked him his origin, because they couldn't place it but it was familiar. Yet, he said it was common in his neighborhood. (I might point out that in this depressing to live in region, even communities in less than 10,000 people total population, it's not uncommon for people to be born, live, and die without having left not just the county they were born in but not ventured outside of 35 miles from the Interstate 275 loop).
Nicholas Rednour
2025-01-23 03:34:28 +0000 UTCStephen, great video. Your sum-up at the end was incredibly polished, insightful and compelling.
Ron Coleman
2024-12-24 03:44:51 +0000 UTCMy only issue with this is that WWE/TKO are big on testing and getting steroids out of the profession. It isn't perfect but I would "CSGamble" to say none of the stars you see on TV are on illegal or over prescribed steroids.
Larry Raab
2024-12-23 19:26:28 +0000 UTCHope you can recover. The people behind this are absolutely evil.
nocturn9x
2024-12-23 08:42:43 +0000 UTCYou stupid? The video literally features a streamer with integrity who won't sell out to scam his fans. Cut it with the generalizations, they help no one.
nocturn9x
2024-12-23 08:41:48 +0000 UTCGreat case study of the destructive and downright nefarious force of unregulated or underregulated capitalism. If you will make more money by hurting more people, someone is going to do it, and so the market forces everyone to do it. We can (rightfully) critize individuals for their individual actions, but nothing substantial is going to change without systematic action that alters the incentive structure. Its a universal problem: see e.g. health care etc.
who, me
2024-12-23 07:28:01 +0000 UTCHe has mentioned in previous videos he doesn't advertise it intentionally, although I forget his exact stated reasons and don't want to falsely attribute anything
John F
2024-12-22 15:13:02 +0000 UTCIt sounds Australian, but that doesn't mean he doesn't live in the US... There are a LOT of people with accents in the US.
NotSoSpy
2024-12-22 07:42:07 +0000 UTCI didn't know I could just support you for $5. You should mention that more often in your videos. Signed up!
Johnny Walker
2024-12-22 03:25:58 +0000 UTCI fear this situation is very similar to "real world" gambling, like for example sports betting. Especially in the EU and especially around soccer - betting houses receive all kinds of exemptions and they're more or less easily accessible to anyone (a bit of hassle but always do-able if they have a gateway or poc, and most do). And once the soccer federations/representatives are asked about this they act like it's a non problem and try to hand wave it away - cus obviously they won't diss their own big buck sponsors... Fun fact: in Romania some families have a family tradition to go put in a parley all together (kids included), usually on Sundays after the church mass.
Vlad Munteanu
2024-12-21 23:07:13 +0000 UTCAt the end of the day it doesn’t matter how they justify it to be moral. The websites wouldn’t continue to pay if the influencers weren’t making them a profit
Monty Ewer
2024-12-21 22:43:57 +0000 UTCthe guy who didn’t use the one site bc they geo block. Am I crazy or does he not have a british accent? It’s weird i feel like it switches between british and then some parts are american
uya
2024-12-21 20:19:49 +0000 UTCThe Netherlands banned all that. Even twitch loot
nidar
2024-12-21 20:03:04 +0000 UTCYeah...my opinion about influencers hasn't changed. Disgusting scumbags all of them.
RTheren
2024-12-21 15:16:41 +0000 UTCGreat investigation. In the first part I didn’t get the connection between CSGO and casinos, I’ll have to go rewatch it now.
Ron McKinnon
2024-12-21 14:23:38 +0000 UTCCongrats on 4m subs!
Sadie Pittman
2024-12-21 14:12:41 +0000 UTCYour last few series have been good but this is the kind of investigation that makes being a supporter worth it!
Jack Lehmann
2024-12-21 05:09:31 +0000 UTCAbsolutely wonderful reporting as always, Coffeezilla! I finally signed up for your patreon to get early access to this video, but I noticed something a bit odd. I’m hard of hearing so I turned on the closed captioning, which thanks to your excellent diction and I imagine some backend work are impeccable. However, on the sections where Monarch is speaking, the closed captioning seems to switch to Finnish - at least according to Google translate. Since you have hardcoded subtitles during those sections the accessibility issues are minimal, but it is somewhat confusing, and I’m unsure of the intentionality. Just thought I should let you know. Have a wonderful day!
Oboeist3
2024-12-21 04:50:16 +0000 UTCi just had to buy patreon to see second ep, finally someone is covering actual problems in the scene, i am cs player since cs1.6 and i was so mad back in like 2012 when they added skins, skins by themselves were fine but i started to draw the line when they were thousands of dollars, i was like no way a pixel in a videogame costs like thousands of dollars, but i was like eh alr like its extremely rare skin and all and i guess 3K ain't that much (keep in mind this was back in 2017 and im talkin about D lore) but it snowballed so much its basically glorified casino at this point that also locks out normal people out of actually having good skins cuz they are all (good ones) thousands of dollars so that gamblers have something quasi rare to unbox on their gambling sites, so they locked normal players out of the good content so they can make gamblers that don't even play the game gamble more
yuzu
2024-12-21 03:47:58 +0000 UTCI’m currently $17,000 in debt to the websites you have mentioned. I started gambling at 14 via CSGO and have RARELY ever gambled elsewhere. As soon as I saw your first video bringing this topic to light I instantly subscribed to your patreon because my money is better spent here than there. Illegal counter strike gambling has ruined my life.
Keaton Pine
2024-12-20 23:40:39 +0000 UTCYou brought up csgo gambling and I instantly bought your patreon. I don't gamble but i've spent 10-20 on cs just trying it out, stupid ass purchase, might as well pay for your effort. p.s. I opened a $1200 knife on my third case and got scammed cuz i didn't know anything about selling and all.
Apoorv Singh
2024-12-20 20:53:25 +0000 UTCCoffee has been making these videos for almost a decade. People getting scammed is a thing he hates, starting with his mom getting scammed. I've noticed lately a vibe shift in the world where no one can want to help people just because it's the right thing to do.
FOEBREAKER
2024-12-20 19:21:31 +0000 UTCYeah its not just csgo, the rust skin gambling sites are also very easy to use if not easier, since there is no trade lock on the skins.
Wyatt Johnston
2024-12-20 18:58:01 +0000 UTC@Matteo.YB there is an ecosystem that allows people to convert skins to cash but literally everything you've just said about it is factually innaccurate.
Nick Henderson
2024-12-20 17:07:33 +0000 UTCCan't wait for the next part
Mesha
2024-12-20 12:00:10 +0000 UTCFascinating video, love it!
René Klačan
2024-12-20 11:31:14 +0000 UTCBest episode of the year—bravo! This case is even more compelling than most crypto cases. Can't wait for part 3
Blu3Diamond
2024-12-20 10:32:14 +0000 UTCI personally started gambling through CS when I was 11ish and can say through the age of 11-19 I lost easily around $75,000 and a good part of that is through csgoroll. With the csgoroll part being said, Juicy and Grim were key factors in me choosing to use the site and gamble. I would be willing to show my account on roll and what I’ve spent to help in any of this as I truly do hope the next person in my shoes stops. I am 22 now and haven’t gambled in quite some time. It’s not worth it and overall you will lose. I have shifted now to watching people like arrow and heyzues which while they still gamble using cases, they aren’t promoting a site that is inherently dangerous and triggered to use our little monkey brains to get more and more money. Rant over. Thank you Coffee for going into this and I wish you the best.
Johnathen Hammonds
2024-12-20 09:18:05 +0000 UTCRip valve. Its an industry problem really
Luis Liz
2024-12-20 05:08:43 +0000 UTCCmon Juicy, just admit you are doing it for the money you fken loser, lmao
Sam Larson
2024-12-20 04:04:41 +0000 UTCABSOLUTE CINEMA!!!!! RELEASE PART 3 RIGHT NOW :DDD
TheDarka
2024-12-20 04:04:20 +0000 UTCPutting it on patreon early was smart coffee you got me
jub jub
2024-12-20 03:41:23 +0000 UTCDamn shoutout to this Jeff guy for doing that initial investigation!
Dylan Boczar
2024-12-20 03:37:42 +0000 UTCwhen <3 ?
Kiburici
2024-12-20 03:05:32 +0000 UTCDamn he’s going after VALVE
Jonathan
2024-12-20 02:34:34 +0000 UTCJoined your community because of this piece—long time watcher. I'll be with you here from here on out. You shine an incredible light on the darkest corners found on the internet.
Kristof
2024-12-20 02:13:25 +0000 UTCThis rabbit hole goes insanely deep
Deion Prince
2024-12-20 01:58:46 +0000 UTCSame I finally joined!
Deion Prince
2024-12-20 01:58:26 +0000 UTCI started on counter strike based gambling websites at the age of 13. My two friends got me into it one day and they were 10 and 12. We ironicly played on Tmartns website which eventually got taken down because tmartn promoted and recorded videos on the gambling site and it was never revealed that it was his site. Rumors were his account would rig wins but the three of us ended up miraculously winning and by the end of it all we had won a few thousands in skins... luckily. Over the next 10 years on and off I must have lost 40 grand. There was also something more that csgo gambling had to offer than real casinos. at age 15 i had already knew multiple sites and how to play the most popular gamemodes. I never cared about turning 21 and playing in real casinos because csgo gambling was better. I could yap for hours about how it was a dark part of my life and how I changed my life habits and psyce. My parents never found out. Just recently in july i played and won 125k usd in btc and that was the first time i ever told them about the industry. currently i've profited 95k gambling on csgo but the tole on my mental health ... no $ amount could pay that back. Counter stike youtubers, influencers and advertisers. These groups with data on human patterns, they tapped into video games and vulnerable teens and youth. Its an invisable money collector with so many loop holes it becomes clear.
Beau Morris
2024-12-20 01:25:54 +0000 UTCI’m addicted to knowing when the next episode is coming out
Shivani
2024-12-20 00:50:30 +0000 UTCHard agree. The accessibility and marketing of sports betting to the general public is going to have huge consequences. But there’s money to be made so I guess we’ll pretend not to see it coming.
Mia
2024-12-20 00:48:11 +0000 UTCUmmm. I don’t think you understood. It’s not about taking his time. He will do it when there are regulations in place which allow him to abide by the strict standards he prefers, without going out of business. Meaning: regulation first, then change. Otherwise he will be out of business due to unregulated competition. The reality is, there has been no change in regulation in 9 years. If he makes changes now, he will be out-competed. It’s a completely fair argument and is not hypocritical. Due to CoffeeZilla’s videos, CSGo Roll is now requiring ID verification. Now that the competition is doing so, we can expect Monarch to do similarly. If he doesn’t, then you can call him a hypocrite. I like Monarch. I dont like these influencers, I dont like these shady tactics, and I dont like that Monarch runs a company like this either. Take the money youve made and invest it somewhere else, stop this ugly business. But.. at least he is standing up for what’s right. I can’t judge him because I dont know how money motivates people. I’ve never seen money like that in my life. Maybe if it was me, I would react the same way. I dont know so I can’t judge.
Shivani
2024-12-20 00:47:44 +0000 UTCSame!
Mia
2024-12-20 00:46:43 +0000 UTCSubscribed for this :) Amazing video. Also bought three shirts from you.
Christoffer Lantz
2024-12-20 00:45:45 +0000 UTCExactly. I don’t know about this whole world, but my first thought after the first video was, why don’t they just stop selling those $2.50 skin mystery box things? That would literally solve this whole thing.. right? They are complicit
Shivani
2024-12-20 00:41:15 +0000 UTCSo happy to be apart of the Patreon now 🙌 I'm really excited to see how this investigation turns out coffee. Very impressive so far
Aron
2024-12-20 00:22:32 +0000 UTCI was going to say, as an old timer CS player… I’m mind blown about how these crates got stunned into a casino gateway 🤯
Xavier Lozinguez
2024-12-19 23:57:50 +0000 UTCJuicy is feckless, I hope he loses fans over this
Thomas Robinson
2024-12-19 23:38:46 +0000 UTCJust signed up to watch this
Rebecca Succes
2024-12-19 23:22:06 +0000 UTCThanks Coffee this series is insanely good! Can't wait for you to expose the gambling problem in gaming!
Vic Jang
2024-12-19 22:28:20 +0000 UTCn1
하준 박
2024-12-19 22:19:48 +0000 UTCYes of course.
Coffeezilla
2024-12-19 22:04:18 +0000 UTCThis was definitely top 3 pieces I’ve seen out of your catalogue, well done and do stay safe.
Zara
2024-12-19 22:00:05 +0000 UTCIs there gonna be a part 3?
Cole Rozen
2024-12-19 21:57:25 +0000 UTC"I feel bad" but the money feels too good enough to stop hurting people, so maybe it doesn't really actually feel so bad.
Jackalgirl
2024-12-19 21:09:22 +0000 UTCDefinitely. Skinclub is easily the largest cs casino and has a lot of partnerships with streamers. I get that's not the focus of this video, but the market as a whole has a bunch of problems that have been around for multiple years.
Ian R
2024-12-19 21:01:48 +0000 UTCJust saying phatphuck name Gabe Newell does even more money
Denis Mercure
2024-12-19 20:45:12 +0000 UTC25:34 typo: should be "its", not "it's".
Lebon14
2024-12-19 20:42:51 +0000 UTCBro this shit is your magnum opus, absolute fire, take my money
FurBz GriNd
2024-12-19 20:37:32 +0000 UTCThis was good. Thanks for making it. And good job looking at the whole ecosystem. The solution based framing feels novel in this YouTube space.
V L
2024-12-19 20:32:01 +0000 UTCThat bit is the reason why 3rd party gambling websites exist, because people can't cash out directly from Valve. There's a system in place that allows them to do that which involves money laundering via sites that use stolen credit cards and key resellers like g2a but that's ultimately how money made with skins are converted to cold hard cash. It's also the reason why mentioning sites like g2a is banned in Steam.
Matteo.YB
2024-12-19 19:45:41 +0000 UTCThat guy was definitely not an American.
Cody Cunningham
2024-12-19 19:12:29 +0000 UTCIf you paid in that $400 in skins, then at some point Valve did make about $400 out of them (that's averaged over all box openings, your particular skins could have cost more or less).
DOM Pekka
2024-12-19 19:00:08 +0000 UTCYou know what’s interesting? Now that physical professional sports in most countries are now beinh supported by gambling companies and websites the addiction levels is going to get worse and worse. There isn’t going to be any place where someone could ignore it. This is so insidious.
Brit
2024-12-19 18:09:41 +0000 UTCfire
Timo
2024-12-19 17:33:27 +0000 UTCGreat quality material, thank you, Coffee. None of the influencers ever mention that they're playing on rigged chances to make winning seem easier than it really is. Total con artists. 👎
Smiglo
2024-12-19 17:14:09 +0000 UTCPlease tell me you interviewed Jeff. He is the absolute biggest influencer in CS2 that never sold his soul
Shadoninja
2024-12-19 17:08:43 +0000 UTCCould ruin valve after i get half life 3. cheers, thanks!
MutinyDB
2024-12-19 17:03:59 +0000 UTCMan, HypeDrop is/was possibly the worst site anywhere. Their excuse is also ridiculous. If you made all of your money back gambling with them they wouldn't exist. AFAIR when he rugpulled he even took away rewards/prizes people had already "earned" and were waiting for.
NotSoBadAndy
2024-12-19 16:55:55 +0000 UTCVery nice to watch this video as an addicted.
Fatbardh Berisha
2024-12-19 16:55:29 +0000 UTCJustice for the Robot
Reece Brown
2024-12-19 16:49:34 +0000 UTCAs an avid CS fan since before all the gambling began and as someone who also spent quite a bit of money on these awful schemes at a young age, thank you so much for covering this topic. You, Houngoungagne, and all the big streamers who haven't bit the bullet give me hope for the future of this game's economy and all the people who are stuck in this loophole. Take my 5 dollars, you absolutely deserve it for informing everyone, and in such an entertaining way too.
frostyfawxy
2024-12-19 16:39:08 +0000 UTCoh totally, i've seen coffeezillas great work on other topics before, and as soon as he said hes making videos on counter strike gambling i knew i had to support him
frostyfawxy
2024-12-19 16:31:32 +0000 UTCThe cognitive dissonance with the influencers is strong. They are addicted to the money themselves but can't admit it.
Tally
2024-12-19 16:30:47 +0000 UTCIn my opinion one of the shadiest things about Valve is that they DO NOT allow you to withdraw funds deposited into steam. I’ve always wonder why, hopefully this is touched on in part 3.
Robert Lando
2024-12-19 15:55:11 +0000 UTCIncredible, important work 🙏 thank you Coffee
Liam Alexander O’Brien
2024-12-19 15:33:01 +0000 UTCCS 1.3, TF2oomer here, These games did fine before skins/hats were integrated. Counter Strike had a pro scene and I even had a friend who made some decent monies by winning tournaments. Life changing? No, the game was a hobby but what exactly should Counter Strike be at the end of the day? Valve spawned these industries. Valve could come out tomorrow and turn all this shit off.
Stephen Ford
2024-12-19 15:11:39 +0000 UTCMonarch is full of shit. He wants to take KYC "step by step" in order to not go out of business, but he REALLY wants the industry to change, he really does! Well he really is taking his sweet time, since that website has been running for over 9 years, and the age verification upon registration is still a single checkbox saying "im over 18". What a hypocrite.
Csaba Sáfrány
2024-12-19 15:11:17 +0000 UTCThis was OBVIOUSLY a very lazy attempt at taking you down. A kind of sloppy hit job. "Look he took the money! What a hypocrit!" No?
Asyouare
2024-12-19 15:08:41 +0000 UTCExcellent work, looking forward to part 3. Very curious to see if you were able to interview anyone from Valve.
Tim Hyde
2024-12-19 14:46:25 +0000 UTCI hope that this can spark some long overdue change.
Storymaker
2024-12-19 13:49:52 +0000 UTCyeah you re literally exposing a large part of my life, i remember i started gambling when I was 13-14 on such shady ass websites like csgoegg that i saw influencers play in, long time dead influencers like skinfreak. Absolute scum, im 21 now and still reeling from the amount of losses these pieces of shit took from me
Przemyslaw Lisiecki
2024-12-19 13:29:44 +0000 UTCSiding with Monarch wasn't something I expected from you, you should dig deeper into him
xen nex
2024-12-19 13:26:55 +0000 UTCI really am interested in this to the point I subbed for the early access. I lost over $22k in unadjusted prices (likely 6 figure number now) before I was 18 from sites that were closed from the H3 video reaction. I hope to see in this or later that you cover Valves attempts to stop the sites bots where they’re trying to hold back the same way they do with VAC; in that their iron fist is intended to hit as few innocent people as possible (like clients of sites) while thoroughly punishing the sites. If I recall their last wave was them BANNING any supplier account they could prove was supplying skins to these casinos
ConnorTD
2024-12-19 13:14:36 +0000 UTCYou're all welcome here in the Patreon Crowd
Merijn Vogel
2024-12-19 12:47:32 +0000 UTCCoffee, you're a legend. Thanks for all your hard work.
Ingo
2024-12-19 12:46:50 +0000 UTCNeed part 3 of this noww. As a CS player who lives in a country where all game related gambling is forbidden (even opening cases in the game itself) this is a part of the game i never truly get to see. I am fully locked into this story.
MXRSE
2024-12-19 12:08:38 +0000 UTCLol samee
Elvin Sislava
2024-12-19 11:54:14 +0000 UTCCmonn wheres part 3 I need itttttty
Elvin Sislava
2024-12-19 11:53:39 +0000 UTCYou are the only creator that i paid to support, keep up the great work.
squirelleledi
2024-12-19 11:44:38 +0000 UTCYeah, No, I mean Yeah, No, but uuuuuh, Yeah No Dude this guys is bad liar
Mario Stoilov
2024-12-19 11:41:58 +0000 UTCIt’s not just unlikely but impossible for valve to disable selling on market as with stickers for teams and player stickers a portion of the sales goes to them and I don’t think valve wants a law suit they cannot win
f1.
2024-12-19 11:38:23 +0000 UTCLove this video series Coffee! Just wanted to let you know, there is an audio editing mistake at 24:24.
Axel Arkheden
2024-12-19 10:43:11 +0000 UTCIt's a shame that you didn't get Sparkles to talk cause that guy must have even bigger partnerships with these shady casino's. Love the exposure on these gambling websites.
Stephen_DER
2024-12-19 09:54:52 +0000 UTCSo well crafted, coffee. Lootboxes are the true evil. Looking forward to see more of your Investigation.
Stefan
2024-12-19 09:52:25 +0000 UTCHere's the thing. Valve makes a LOT of money off of this. But IF I'm gambling $400 to get a $3 skin, who's really making the money? Valve only charges me $3(Kangaroo Bucks) for effectively the same odds, if not better.
Trip
2024-12-19 09:17:43 +0000 UTCIt feels like Valve could easily kill this whole industry if they were less greedy. I'm not necessarily dunking on Valve, but ultimately they have the real power to nip it in the bud. Would it hurt their profits? Abso-fucking-lutely it would and I assume this is the only reason they haven't already. Websites that make a profit off of skin values are predatory and disgusting but they are just leeching onto what Valve essentially allows them to do, ToS be damned. Edit: I wrote this about 5 minutes before the end of the video. Very much looking forward to Part 3!! Coffee - you're always so on the nose with everything!
NotSoSpy
2024-12-19 09:10:37 +0000 UTCthey addicted #copium
martin man
2024-12-19 08:59:40 +0000 UTCmaybe valve is not to directly blame because its not like they are the ones propping up third party casino sites but i think its really important to remember the lack of iniative from their side to do any proper measures about it TO HELP regulating this in the first place, because at the end of the day its SO much money involved in the picture, valve is directly profiting of how things work today, not only in terms of skins potentially being worth more because its more money in the playing field and more uses for it besides «LOOKS GOOD». valve is reaping in profits from even just skins being sold on the market or people cashing out their steam balances to physical steam decks for resale etc. valve knows what has been going on and the effects (keep in mind how easy accessible it is/has been for kids) and they definitely deserve criticism along with third party casino owners.
martin man
2024-12-19 08:58:11 +0000 UTCi get what you mean, the way valve have gone about this problem over the years is honestly unacceptable its damn fucking time
martin man
2024-12-19 08:46:47 +0000 UTCValve is a company. They have good stuff, and they have bad stuff. Overly focusing on one is not healthy, whichever of the two it is.
VeryProfessionalDodo
2024-12-19 08:45:15 +0000 UTCyou got me hooked on part 1 i had to sub to the patreon to get part 2 asap!
Thomas Gibbs
2024-12-19 08:02:35 +0000 UTCThis is a completely valid response and the main reason i think valve isn't to blame. Skin prices exist fluctuate not because of gambling, but because the backing is that you want pretty skins on your gun the greatest shooter of all time. Valve is by no means an indie company but when I want to leave CSGO for a few months, I can cash out my skins on a trading website and retain the money I spent. The alternative to this is a skin system like Valorant or Fortnite where you can only feed the company money with skins you wont get back. In the long run, a the person who plays those games will waste more money feeding the corporate, investor driven slop company rather than retaining any amount of money as they would in CS. I do think gambling is a problem though but tbh i think 2.5 dollar cases are a lot better risk wise then dumping thousands onto these other sites. I think we can regulate gambling while keeping the current skin economy.
FluorideStare
2024-12-19 07:01:11 +0000 UTCThat one dude was not American.
Zachary Allinger
2024-12-19 06:35:41 +0000 UTCGahhh and then you play the Valve sound and I wanna cry. I know they're not the Valve I loved anymore, and I always knew this was coming. But that really felt like "Fuck. It's time, huh?"
localnomad
2024-12-19 06:32:09 +0000 UTCThis comment needs more traction
Devin Bender
2024-12-19 06:31:21 +0000 UTCHey, legitimate business owner in CS Skins (skin inspection site) Just wanted to say great video, and I'm excited for what you say about Valve. I don't take gambling sponsorships and was in a fortunate enough position to self fund my business but if there was another competitor that was willing to take gambling I would've 100% lost a large % of my market share so the part about eSport organization owners and to some degree even other influencers essentially being forced to take them to be competitive really resonated with me. I hope Valve bars teams / event organizers from taking illegal & unregulated gambling sponsorships. I also hope that they cease and desist the current ones acting in bad faith. Ideally it would be great if they can finally just come out and say. Hey these are assets worth money and overhaul the entire system to be no longer a grey market but instead a fully fledged white market. They have the money & I assume the resources (at the very least they have the money to acquire them) to do so. What I ultimately think the result of this will be, are one or more of a few options: A) A nothing burger for Valve - they may just do nothing if the reaction isn't large enough to impact them. (Are we really in a regulatory environment where they would care enough to do anything? I.E Hawk Tuah, Fart Coin, whatever other vaporware bs) B) They regulate what types of sponsorships are allowed at the eSports level C) They cease and desist the bad actors like they did in 2016 and go back to doing nothing. D) They cease and desist the bad actors and actively monitor for more on a regular basis. Z) They disable trading. (This is the most unlikely outcome, although it would solve the single digit % of overall skin volume that is problematic. The market is a massive cash cow for them that I don't think they want to kill. I think it would take actual potential legal ramifications post legal battle for this to actually happen based on the precedent they set in 2016-17) Excited for the next one, much love & hope this can finally get them to do something.
Epidemic
2024-12-19 06:29:29 +0000 UTCThis story is just as massive as the low taper fade meme
0.
2024-12-19 06:16:09 +0000 UTCGreat video. The lack of regulations lead to a literal money printer for everyone except the consumer. I haven't seen the next video yet but, clearly Valve is partially to blame. Opening cases is gambling, Fortnite had a similar case with 'Loot Llama's'. Epic had to pay out millions in damages. In no way can I see how opening $2.5 cases that can be worth thousands, is not gambling. I've done it, it's fun. Open a case, sell it on the marketplace. There is a guaranteed winner which is Valve. You can never have a case of $2.5 have an expected market value of greater than $2.5. If you did, there would be no reason as a consumer not to spend infinite money to earn infinite money. Unfortunately that is an impossibility.
Mitch D
2024-12-19 06:08:59 +0000 UTCI didn’t start csgo gambling till I was of age but they didn’t do any verification until sometime last year. Where I got started underage was rust gambling but that’s a lot less juicy than csgo I think lol
xtoxicwizzy
2024-12-19 06:04:40 +0000 UTCYeah gambling is a huge issue and advertising it should be illegal, same with nicotine products, Cannabis, pharmaceutical products and booze. Kids are too vulnerable and if they are predisposed to these things are more likely to have addiction in the future. Also this is an accessibility issue for people with addiction as addiction is a medical condition. Constantly having adds for addictive things is cruel and leads to addicts abandoning recovery, this is a very disabling thing for people with addiction. The health of the population is more important than making money. Too bad not everyone sees it that way.
Pollen
2024-12-19 06:03:18 +0000 UTCGod, the look on Arrow's face when you said "you're a good person" at 30:39. Looked like he'd been telling himself that for years and someone else finally said it. That's gotta feel so overwhelming.
localnomad
2024-12-19 05:52:54 +0000 UTCJus givin' people what they want...
Kyle G
2024-12-19 05:41:50 +0000 UTCI agree with what you said. Similar thing happened with Epic Games and Rocket League. By stopping trading altogether, will almost certainly kill off at least half of their community and eliminate the problem other than selling accounts. But then these gambling companies will just go to other games that offer the same thing. It's sadly a bit of a lose lose situation.
AJ
2024-12-19 05:32:41 +0000 UTCI got a computer in the garage, anyone know how to start one of these companies? I’m tryin to get that bag.
Snotface
2024-12-19 05:22:55 +0000 UTCSouth African
Holly Smith
2024-12-19 05:14:49 +0000 UTCIn my algorithm of the internet I watch a guy named Ludwig. He has an esports team, and talk about not having funding alot. Somtimes comparing themthemselves to the csgo scene. It's makes sense to me now knowing why they have such huge events. It's run by the csgo gambling mafia
Javukie
2024-12-19 05:08:42 +0000 UTCGOLD GOLD GOLD
bigthecat
2024-12-19 04:26:24 +0000 UTCLong time CS player here. While valve is definitely to blame, I don't think they should change how skins work. In order for them to stop this gambling epidemic, they would need to make skins not tradeable. This would be detrimental to the game. The ability to trade skins in goes all the way back to team fortress 2. In TF2, there is an identical skin system that ultimately birthed CS:GO skins. In TF2, you can buy keys to open crates that are identical to CS:GO keys, except they are tradeable. These keys are worth $2.50 usd and are a means of exchanging skins; they are treated like a liquid asset. There are TF2 servers where people will trade skins for keys and these trades dictate market prices on websites like "backpack.tf" Several years back Valve made CS:GO keys untradeable with a 7 day trade hold on skins in an attempt to combat gambling websites. This was detrimental to the CS:GO trading world making it almost necessary to have a middle man, in the form of trading websites, for regular trading. Ultimately this did nothing to deter gambling websites, just kill a lot of skin traders. It is very in character for valve to do nothing about large issues. For example, they have not given TF2 a content update in over 7 years, besides just dropping community made skins to generate free money for them. They also basically refuse to create a proper anti-cheat for CS. Despite these issues and many more I understand where Valve is coming from. I don't think Valve is ignoring the gambling issues for their own personal gain. What they do is make games and damn good ones at that. They are stuck with a monster of their own making. The CS:GO skins market is an incredibly unique and special thing that no other game company has been able to replicate. No matter what Valve does, it will make people upset, so they choose to do nothing and ignore the problem. This is very negligent, but Valve neglects everything except Steam. I love Valve. They make fantastic products l and in my opinion not greedy. I am glazing, but I have given their games thousands of hours of my life. Gambling has become a cultural epidemic outside of CS:GO. Sports betting apps are advertised everywhere just like CS:GO gambling websites. Many of my friends and peers have become serious gambling addicts sometimes spending all of their free time gambling on sports and watching the games. They gamble every chance they get and its tragic. The accessibility and normalization of gambling has turned it into an epidemic. Even if Valve somehow stops it, people and persons underage will go elsewhere to gamble. I can't believe I just wrote a whole ass essay about gambling and I still got so much to say. Anyway thanks for the great vid coffee! I've loved your content for a long time and this vid convinced me to join the patreon. I respect your integrity and thorough research on these topics. Can't wait for part 3! Edit: Even if Valve were to somehow completely stop CS skin gambling, there are still websites like "rustypot.com" This is a rust gambling website that is identical to CS:GO gambling websites, except it is even more unregulated. Rust skins being instantly tradeable, unlike CS skins. Furthermore, there are websites like "skinswap.com" where you can trade Rust skins for CS skins. No matter what Valve does the gambling of video game skins is a monster of leviathan proportions that they have no chance to take down.
bigthecat
2024-12-19 04:25:33 +0000 UTCRight? Like, "Nooo, I'm scamming people for the love of it, but the money sure is nice!"
Shoo
2024-12-19 04:25:00 +0000 UTCI just can't place that guy's accent at 5:38. Born in the UK, spent childhood in USA?
Goralim
2024-12-19 04:22:12 +0000 UTCHow is it better that you aren’t scamming people for the money. You would be doing it without money. That feels way worse.
Jasmine Noack
2024-12-19 04:21:27 +0000 UTCIt's wild when you think about, there's all these people involved at multiple levels... They all are to blame to some degree. But ultimately, all of them are just layers of symptoms when you finally locate the root cause. There's literally one point to all of this that could shut all this down overnight.
Lakstoties
2024-12-19 03:57:14 +0000 UTCgood excuse for me to payup finally..
TheCoolKidzOTB
2024-12-19 03:55:44 +0000 UTCI won and lost thousands of dollars gambling on CSGO lotto when I was 15. This needs to be talked about more to protect all the other kids being exposed to this. To be fair it did teach me a good lesson early.. But the only reason I used the sites was due to youtubers pumping the site which end up being proven to be rigged. Nasty world..
TheCoolKidzOTB
2024-12-19 03:54:18 +0000 UTCwhats fucked up is that these ppl dont gamble to win things but to get that paycheck to their bank account .. what the youtubers does is day & night vs basic users
Paskal
2024-12-19 03:53:52 +0000 UTCid take down my own casino industry after making millions too
Paskal
2024-12-19 03:49:10 +0000 UTCGot me to sub with ep 1, now you got me hooked for ep 3. Darn you Zilla and your smart marketing.
Peter Bosco
2024-12-19 03:45:28 +0000 UTCShould have included a short background info of what CS gambling actually is in the first episode. I literally had no idea there was actual gambling involved with the skins, and I've been serially online since the late '80s.
Colby Newton
2024-12-19 03:41:49 +0000 UTCI'm not even playing CSGO nor have I ever gambled in my life but part 1 finally made me become a patreon of yours. Great work you're doing!
WolfSquirrel1754
2024-12-19 03:40:02 +0000 UTCI was 15 when i got hooked on gambling with csgo skins. I spent hundreds of dollars on steam cards for keys and eventually skins. Found out about CSGO Jackpot and started gambling. It was an absolute thrill. My inventory was worth close to $30k at one point before I gambled nearly all of it away. I ended up selling my last couple skins including my minimal wear Dragon Lore and leaving the game entirely. I did come out of it slightly positive but after the insane highs and the depressing lows, it was far too emotionally taxing.
L14M9R1C3
2024-12-19 03:32:01 +0000 UTCI was hoping to see ohnePixel featured in this video, him being one of the most addicted case openers yet actively refuses gambling sponsorships, instead building his own alternative as a skins shop. Dunno if it's too late to get his comments but it would be absolutely a gem of a byte on this topic, possibly providing a solution too.
Kaustubh Rajpathak
2024-12-19 03:32:00 +0000 UTCGenius move to have episode 2 ready on Patreon
dalton hobbs
2024-12-19 03:30:44 +0000 UTCI am the final boss, the puppeteer pulling all the strings
Topdogger-
2024-12-19 03:18:01 +0000 UTCFirst ever Patreon subscription, and well worth it. Very excited to see how this progresses, and much love to CoffeeZilla & the team for putting this out! Cheers to Arrow for standing up for his morals even when presented life changing money like that, very much respected move.
Taylor Reali
2024-12-19 03:17:40 +0000 UTCI'm not sure how much of a secret Valve's involvement is in the gambling ecosystem even is. Dedicated PC gamers seem pretty aware of it, and a lot of them seem to know the consequences it has on young players. But most seem more willing to boycott Epic because they sign exclusivity deals, or host NFT games (As terrible as those games are). Valve knows what kind of damage they're doing with this system. They've been sued for it a few times, but have, more or less, come out unscathed and continued right on course. The only way I see them changing in the short term is a massive public backlash. And informing people is the first step making that happen. Good luck, (Formerly Homeless Man) Coffezilla.
FUNNZO
2024-12-19 03:16:41 +0000 UTCWonderful job as always. Kind of wish the baseline explanation of the gambling scheme was in the first video. As someone who doesn’t know anything about counter strike, it cleared up a lot of confusion that made the first video a little bit harder to follow
Renee
2024-12-19 02:54:54 +0000 UTCWild!!! 3 is going to be even more. Excited to watch you unfold it all!
Letcha B
2024-12-19 02:53:28 +0000 UTCI think it is part of the marketing scheme of the sites themselves, they rope in these influencers who themselves are addicts and now you're bankrolling their addiction. That's why these people will pass off these terrible things while acknowledging just how terrible they are.
Daniel Stevens
2024-12-19 02:44:10 +0000 UTCExcellent topic. I don't quite understand CS but it seems to me if the ability to move skins out of the game was removed this would all stop.
Mike Gervasi
2024-12-19 02:41:48 +0000 UTCTo a "T." Churn is low, so business is good. Just like a drug dealer, all you need is zero morals or conscience.
Alex McIntosh
2024-12-19 02:35:15 +0000 UTCNeed part 3
adhitthana yip
2024-12-19 02:34:04 +0000 UTCNGL this vid made me bite the bullet and subscribe finally. Missed the merch drop but much love to you Coffeezilla. Hope you are getting the financial support you need to fend off these grifter's legal attacks. Keep up the good work!
Pollen
2024-12-19 02:28:45 +0000 UTCMan this second video in the series is so good. I think Streamers and YouTubers should be held more accountable for the sponsors they take. Although I think it's sad that the only sponsors willing to give these streamers money are the unethical ones and Arrow here deserves a lot of credit for doing the right thing when 75% of others aren't.
BuckleysPants
2024-12-19 02:22:34 +0000 UTCNever had signed up for Patreon before. This was too ironic
Alex Regan
2024-12-19 02:20:07 +0000 UTCIf only they’d stuck to Portal and Half-Life.
RiaClerica
2024-12-19 02:18:40 +0000 UTCI didn’t sign up for this or because of this, but I did happen to get paid today.
RiaClerica
2024-12-19 02:17:18 +0000 UTCHe definitely means it, trust me. It's just like he said, there's always gonna be people promoting gambling, so it's nice he can do it himself in a responsible way, he always tells people it's not a way to make money and so on.
FrgalfrgalCZ
2024-12-19 02:08:34 +0000 UTCI think they understand, but just don't care enough to do anything about it. But I agree with you, I physically cringed listening to Grim and Juicy trying to argue their point - it holds zero value.
hahanice
2024-12-19 02:05:36 +0000 UTCIt's hilarious (sad) to hear the influencers break down their hypocrisy and not understand what they're saying about themselves
David Morton
2024-12-19 01:58:32 +0000 UTCA slight modification, would Coffee being doing this if it was hurting innocent people? As far as I'm concerned a person can make money as long as they do no harm to others.
Aaron Hardy
2024-12-19 01:39:26 +0000 UTCIt's panning out. What is this a picture oVALVE. Gabe, Gabe, Gabe, why I am I not surprised. The influencer saying that he felt bad was interesting. Much like an actual drug dealer, he said it but didn't mean it.
Aaron Hardy
2024-12-19 01:38:15 +0000 UTCImpeccable work again. I've already been talking up this series with folks around me, I can't wait for Part 3.
Daniel Goldhorn
2024-12-19 01:32:14 +0000 UTCSigned up for this! So ready for the top quality Coffeezilla investigation and storytelling!
Jacob Mirzaian
2024-12-19 01:24:32 +0000 UTCThe rabbit hole just keeps going deeper..
KingPr0o7
2024-12-19 01:22:01 +0000 UTCfound Juicy XD
gavisama
2024-12-19 01:20:17 +0000 UTCWould you go to work if you weren't getting paid for it?
Shawn Sanchez
2024-12-19 01:18:25 +0000 UTCi see what you're getting at, but how do u think he started out ? and i feel the act of continuing investigations despite the danger to him shows the intent, whereas those in this situation who took the deals won't speak out against the dangers -- not saying i don't understand wanting to stay safe, but it shows his priority is to fight for a story to try and help people and hold people accountable rather than to just make money
MARLOW
2024-12-19 01:15:24 +0000 UTCGAHHHHHHH This was your best work to date Coffee!!!!!
Cian Parker
2024-12-19 01:13:14 +0000 UTCAll these "influencers" promoting these sites are addicts that got lucky they were able to cultivate an audience that's too dumb to realize they're the people at a loss at the end of the day. Everyone involved with advertising any gambling site is getting 100% of their losses covered and millions deposited in their bank accounts. None of it is real, and until its made outright illegal people will continue to fall for it.
Bubbles
2024-12-19 01:08:55 +0000 UTCGod those streamers are so morally bankrupt.
Øyvind Rønningstad
2024-12-19 01:08:15 +0000 UTCjust wondering, im not trying to justify anything, but would you make these videos if you weren't making money from them?
sbe321
2024-12-19 01:06:07 +0000 UTCWhat I hear from the streamers is that they are addicted they just get paid to be addicted. How they worded it sounds exactly like a drug addict
Cassandra Kellner
2024-12-19 01:05:09 +0000 UTCHere’s to you Coffee and the streamers who refuse to take the casinos’ blood money. Of course someone morally bankrupt or desperate will always step up to take it, but still I celebrate that ethical sacrifice and everyday heroism.
Elizabeth Woodley
2024-12-19 00:59:40 +0000 UTC...wonder if they're truly the final boss or if an even bigger fish is hiding behind them...
Christophe
2024-12-19 00:58:57 +0000 UTCSolid reporting! It's just sad how gambling has been normalized, from betting sites basically bank rolling professional sports to "video game" companies basically coding addiction for the next generation of gamblers.
Christophe
2024-12-19 00:56:12 +0000 UTCDo you think the influencer promoters are addicted as well? Like a drug dealer getting addicts to push their stuff, and giving them money and their drug as payment? They have typical addict behaviors.
Brandon Bradford
2024-12-19 00:54:28 +0000 UTCQuestion: Why aren't these considered loot boxes? Have there been any lawsuits approaching it from that avenue? I recall loot boxes and regulations regarding them some years ago and I think it was related to the % of prizes you could obtain. I mean, it's not really the concern you mention, but just wondered if maybe regulation could start or continue pulling from that string.
Ada MC
2024-12-19 00:44:47 +0000 UTCAll the way to the top is valve; the rotted king.
Alejandro A Castro-Vera
2024-12-19 00:39:38 +0000 UTCAs someone who plays Counter Strike, I love this video. The fact you uncovered everything about the gambling scene from a outsiders perspective is nuts. Thank you so much
3kh0
2024-12-19 00:39:08 +0000 UTCIts painful how so many influencers seemingly ignore the damage they are engaging in. "sure I make millions promoting this, but that's clearly just to adults who lets be honest I don't give an f about". Like streamers who hawk sports gambling sites do the same thing. They are literally making money on their audiences losses and at no point do they care.
judasdubois
2024-12-19 00:37:40 +0000 UTCW
Tpbraut Braut
2024-12-19 00:32:23 +0000 UTCWatching these back to back was like a movie fr
Nathan Tavares
2024-12-19 00:31:20 +0000 UTCJust rewatched part 1 on YouTube, let's jump to part 2.
Ada MC
2024-12-19 00:29:07 +0000 UTCGlad valve is going to get their fair share of the blame here, they've gotten away with it for far too long
Michael Fitzgerald
2024-12-19 00:19:58 +0000 UTCGlad you're investigating this! I also watched a bunch of these videos from anomaly back in 2016 but it was really only about his personality and banter with his friends. That's the entry level drug for so many teens gambling. I really love valve's games and most of their business practices are so grestly pro-sumer that this CSGO skin gambling BS just feels so strangely out of character for them. I doubt you'll get somebody from valve to actually comment. They are notorious for how hard they are to get in touch. But best of luck!
Tewan
2024-12-19 00:19:57 +0000 UTCI had to subscribe on Patreon because I've been a long time YT sub and I was really excited to see you cover my favorite game. I'm a late bloomer to the CS scene but I absolutely love the competitive nature of this game. With that being said, I also love the skins too. From community made skins to skins with cool patterns etc, it's fun to collect and play with skins, especially since they have real world value. The problem really comes down to valve as they've created an ecosystem that is fully based on gambling and rng. You want a skin? Open a case and it is a gamble of what you get, even the pattern and wear (aka float) are gambles. You get a drop every single week for FREE in hopes that you open the case and gamble. You don't like the skin you got? Trade it up using 10 skins you have and gamble to see if you get the skin from the collection you wanted. Gambling is synonymous with CS and I've even opened numerous cases hoping to get the nice skin or a knife. The odds are horrible, there's no clarity, and valve does not care how old you are. Greed is what drives Valve, not just in CS but in every single facet of their business. Sidenote: the odds are so horrible on CS in-game cases that these shady 3rd party casinos will advertise themselves as "more fair" than Valve. Sites like skinclub also allow you to upgrade skins or do case battles which is just another form of gambling. I'm surprised skinclub hasn't been mentioned at all because it's one of the newer and popular sites that a ton of people get sponsored by. I even played on a community workshop 1v1 map that had skinclub sponsors ON THE MAP lol. Fortunately, me and my friends stay away from cases/gambling now and we just play the game. Valve needs to add an option to remove the ability to open cases, especially for those that want to stop. The average CS inventory is ~$231.54 last I checked, which is definitely skewed because of the top collectors, but I still thought this number was insane. Stay safe everyone and thank you Coffee for your amazing investigations!
Thomas A
2024-12-19 00:14:40 +0000 UTCThanks for this Coffee! I always loved your work. I'm finally in a place where I can support you beyond YouTube views!
Ky Chan
2024-12-19 00:12:44 +0000 UTCLoving the 3 layered analytical approach to this problem
James Linderman
2024-12-19 00:08:47 +0000 UTCGreat video and love your work as always. As someone who followed CSGO esports on and off over the years its nice to see someone from outside come in and open up the issue to people outside of the space. I do think you come off as a bit soft on Monarch though, I wouldn't take his moral stances at face value as you seem to in the video, he still cashes in on young kids just like all of them and his moral posturing is likely just for PR - care not to accidentally give him the kind of good publicity he wants as the "least bad" of the gambling sites. Can't wait for the final part!
Dario Biedma-Coleman
2024-12-19 00:05:49 +0000 UTCEarly days MrBeast also participated in csgo gambling videos :)
Topdogger-
2024-12-19 00:05:30 +0000 UTCAs a person that lived inn Halden a few years back and is Norwegian, this was crazy to learn about
Hiro
2024-12-19 00:05:00 +0000 UTCGreat handling of the subject. I appreciate that instead of just being judgmental towards the influencers you took a systemic approach. It’s easy for one of us, the viewers, to say “I wouldn’t take a deal from a casino” when we are not the ones being offered risk free millions of dollars. Shaming those influencers is good but law is the true fix. If the only consequence for crime was being shamed the crime rate would skyrocket. Can’t wait for the next part to learn about Valve’s involvement in this whole situation.
Hamza H
2024-12-18 23:58:55 +0000 UTCGreat video! Excited for part 3
Kevin Kwast
2024-12-18 23:56:45 +0000 UTCIm addicted to csgo/crypto gambling and have made a couple of friends that are streamers and the truth is that the money is to good. You can have 40 viewers and take in about 20-30k a month. Shit is insane.
Sebastian
2024-12-18 23:56:07 +0000 UTChow do you justify it? cognitive dissonance at full force :)
Sebastian Wagner
2024-12-18 23:46:52 +0000 UTCamazing video coffee, it's time to go after Valve themselves!
lakersbaby
2024-12-18 23:46:26 +0000 UTCThe YouTubers promoting these casinos are losers who never worked a day in their life. Now they can't stop because their lifestyle and income depends on it. That's why they don't care that it's unethical.
Laika
2024-12-18 23:39:00 +0000 UTCThese casino owners and influencers saying gambling is wrong have all the sincerity of a drug dealer wearing a D.A.R.E t-shirt
Michael Simmons, Author
2024-12-18 23:36:03 +0000 UTCnice. and especially liked the end perspective of following this to the root cause.
Eric August
2024-12-18 23:18:43 +0000 UTC
