New Patreon Fees and Possible Changes

I appreciate it Alex. I'm sure Patreon is getting a lot of similar feedback right now, and hopefully they are swayed. I've switched to a monthly system and am committing myself to 4 maps per month. I'll create a surplus so that I always make this mark, and I think it will work out well. I'll try and go with the flow and keep the fees low ♫ regardless of what Patreon settles on, and I'm looking at alternatives too...

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm grateful, Christopher, and glad to hear you get so much use out of them! The new monthly system is now active, so please look over the new tiers and see if they work for you. :)

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I agree Gail. PayPal managed to find a way, and so I'm able to sell $1 maps on my website. I hope Patreon figures this out too. In the meantime, I hope the new $4(.47) per month tier works for you.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Indeed, I am committing to 4 per month! I'm even working on a surplus so I can always hit that mark. Thank you for sticking around Cedric.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Siona! I'm glad they are of such value to you, and I hope you will consider one of the new monthly pledge levels so that I don't have your 38% price hike on my conscience!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I feel the same way Devin. I'm working on an alternative and, if enough people migrate, I'm not against leaving Patreon. I think there will always be a significant crowd here though, that I wouldn't abandon. I hope you will stick around to see that alternative!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Scott! I've just flicked the switch to monthly (I wish it was as easy as that implies) and am happy to have you. :)

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you! Though I like the coupon idea, my new maps are all posted with CC licenses anyway, and giving a $1.00 map coupon for a $1.38 pledge doesn't make sense, since everyone would be better off if the map was purchased normally from my site. It still works as an icing-on-the-cake for $4+ supporters, but I'd need to think of something more to make a $1 pledge worth the money. Hmm...

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

It's a bad month for most, it seems. Campaigns are already dipping, and the change only goes live (for existing Patrons) on Jan 01. I don't want to imagine the dip then, when people see what they've been charged. Hopefully these changes will minimize the impact and we can bounce back in 2018.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm certainly looking into it Cody, and will encourage everyone to migrate should I find one. I imagine I will always have a Patreon account (for the folks who like well-established brands) but there's no reason I can't put another platform front and center for 2-Minute Table Top.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it too, Royal. I've yet to see one creator in support of it, as everyone seems to appreciate the foundation of small pledges most (all?) campaigns are built on.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you for sharing the load, Sam. I'm glad to have you!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I completely understand Nicky. Thank you for your support in the past, and I hope you will follow me and consider one of the alternatives I am looking into.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm glad you find so much value in them, Haley! I'm glad you will stick around.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

You're right Nicky, and I would be committed to four maps a month if so. It's doable now, and will be extra doable next year once I leave my second job (unless this change REALLY hurts and I'm better off keeping it...)

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm tentatively hoping so Paul! I will be swapping over to monthly in preparation for the change, and will probably stay that way if the changes are reverted, depending on feedback. Monthly is altogether a safer, more predictable model, on my end.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Julie. I'm certain that we'll bounce back thanks to people like you!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

That's great to hear Ronnie, I'm glad you think so!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Many thanks Daniel. I also considered a DIY PayPal subscription, but I think there are many supporters here who trust the well-known Patreon brand, and wouldn't be willing to migrate. I'm considering doing both though, perhaps with further incentive to use the on-site method with the lower fees!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Joel! I certainly will. It will be more or less a straight conversion, at least at first.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I appreciate you writing an honest post regarding your thoughts on the changes. For me at least, it is now another reason why I like subscribing to your project. Sorry that Patreon is putting you through this. I plan to continue subscribing myself and I prefer the monthly option you suggested. Just a suggestion, but you already have a nice website, and I would be just as happy to subscribe directly on your site (if the option existed) as I would Patreon (especially, if I could just link payments through a paypal subscription). I also appreciate the free map a month code you send out, it is icing on the cake for me. Honestly, your project is the only reason I even use Patreon at the moment. Keep up good work!

sutusa

Pateron have really missed the mark on this. I'd also recommend putting a $8 per month option as well, for those of us that don't mind the extra (and were already on the $2 per map option).

Joel McKinnon

It's bizarre how Patreon's email on this suggested that this was to help creators by giving them a more steady income, yet their changes are having the opposite affect on all the map creators that I back....

DW

Of those options, I prefer monthly. If there were an “Other” option, I would say to start seeking a new platform that patrons can use to support you and receive maps. Patreon/PayPal/Stripe won’t learn their lesson unless the customers (creators) drop them for a better option.

I read Patreon's Blog twice and I still don't understand how they came to the conclusion that increasing the number of transactions and adding a service fee per transaction would make things better. WTF? How about only allowing a patron to cancel future month's--but your current month will execute the final payment--or prorating. They could adopt a GiftCard model where we load our Patron account with an amount (equal to the maximum charges for all patroned creators), and then patron's are paid from this internal account. This would also allow me to possibly load a six month amount into my account and reduce how often *I* not the creator, incurs fees. Hmmm, problem solved and fees reduced for everyone. There are a number of ways to deal with this problem, but their solution is just horrible. I can't help but think this will hurt creators.

Royal Frazier

I plan on contributing either way, your maps are great! It is very frustrating that Patreon decide to go this route though and I'm sorry you have to put up with this. I've already submitted my complaints to them through their support site.

The more I've been reading about this change, the more upset I am with Patreon. While I love your artwork, if I were to not make my voice heard with the power of my pocketbook, I would not be happy. I will sadly be ending all my pledges. I gave patreon the power to charge my CC with explicit terms, and they are now changing those terms. I saw patreon as a system that was making micro transactions viable and they just threw all that goodwill out of the window. I hope dr.ip offers some real competition to patreon. Hopefully patreon will wake up and I'll be back.

nickythegreek

I'm staying either way. Your work is amazing and honestly this is a HUGE savings compared to any map I might buy from Paizo and I like your art style so much. I found one of your maps sold with a module on another site and purchased it to use for something else and I just fell in love with the look and feel of it all. I'm not upset at a little extra cash, I would be upset if I lost out on any of your amazing maps now that I found them.

Remember that some of your patreons do the $1 a map but also might cap to a total of $2 or $3. I wouldn't mind giving you $4/month but that's because I trust you to put out several high quality maps each month. I would ask you to look back over your past months and see how many maps you put out each month. If you are putting out 2-3 maps, than charging $4 a month is actually an even larger increase to your patreons. Look forward to your upcoming year and see if you can commit to X amount of maps/variations each month before you switch to charging a monthly rate.

nickythegreek

The monthly model seems the best of a bad option. This system really hits the people who can least afford it. There's a been quite a bit of outrage over the changes, including from some creators who are big enough to have some influence with Patreon, so hopefully these changes won't actually make it to deployment.

Paul Kingtiger

Do what you gotta do man, I'm not going anywhere!

I'm definitely sticking with you either way. Honestly, $1 or $2 per map doesn't seem too much for your gorgeous art.

Ronnie Silverlake

I already sent feedback to Patreon about how badly this will impact $1 creators. It is pretty hard to see them charging processing fees more often than they actually charge patrons as anything other than a money grab. I would be in favor of switching to a monthly model (though I am saddened at its inflexibility) or switching to another platform if one appears. I'll stick around regardless of your decision.

I use your maps weekly. I design some of my campaign encounters around your maps. Will support you no matter what, but I think most would be more inclined to continue to support under #2! Thanks for all you do.

I do think rather than a flat proportional system, it should be progressive, with the highest transaction fee in the higher tier reward and a threshold that eliminates most of the fees on the lowest tier pledges. However, this being capitalism at outs finest, they're probably aware a majority of pledges are in low tiers and are attempting to make a cash grab at the expense of content creators. Will support folks either way this month, it being Christmas and then figure things out next month for the New Year, budget wise.

Gail Dee

I'll be sticking around either way because I love your art style but if I had to pick, I'd go with a monthly fee as long as you are ok with providing 4 maps a month. Else, sticking with 1$ per map is better.

Cedric L

Regardless of what you choose, I'm sticking around because you make my favorite maps and have been so helpful for my homebrew game. :) I'd rather eat the cost than go

Cheese

I'd say switch to monthly model, leave a $1 tier option available for a coupon for any one of the 4 maps you plan to make each month (or something comparable) so you're still providing access to patrons who maybe can't afford more, and go with your $4 per month plan - just make it super clear for $4 they get four maps a month. Personally I'd gladly pledge at $4 just to maximize the % that actually goes to you.

PrintableHeroes

It's greedy of me, but I'd like to see a platform change just to demonstrate to Patreon how much their new policy displeases me.

Devin Brown

I didn’t vote because I would actually go for the fourth choice of “Either option is fine by me.” $1.38 per map is still a ridiculously good value for your work, though I’m as pissed off as you and everyone else about what Patreon is doing. Here’s hoping they walk back this boneheaded change before it does any more damage, but until that happens, I’ll still be here whatever you decide to do.

Thank you for your feedback so far everyone, but I'm off to bed now. I will look over all this again tomorrow with a fresh mind and get back to you!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'm honored, thanks!

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Stephen! Migrating platforms is an intimidating idea, as we'd no doubt lose a large percentage of the crowd we have gathered here, but it's not off the table. It's good to hear that some people are keen.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

After the changes the internet wrought on Star Wars: Battlefront, I'm a little optimistic that Patreon will sway! We will cross our fingers and see (and make plans in the meantime)

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thanks Ben. I will pay this some more thought in the morning.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

I'll be sticking with you either way! Though if an alternative to Patreon turns up I'll go there. Charging more for each $ is a terrible idea

Stephen B

I certainly will do Corey, thank you for a starting point for tomorrow's research! I'm also watching what my peers are thinking, and am not ruling out a migration attempt.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Thank you Vincent! I can relate. I makes small pledges to 26 creators on Patreon, and am now forced to reconsider most of them.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

Same here!

Vincent Legault

What ever option you pick I will stick around either on Patreon or an other platform. Keep up the good work and let's see how Patreon react to the pushback.

Vincent Legault

I'll be honest I come to Patreon to support people who do cool stuff that I use. I personally don't mind spending a little bit more money.

Ashfall Art

I'm going to say neither at the moment. I really hope that patreon changes their proposal. I would be more than happy to take a small increase to my monthly total donation. If they charged 5% on to the top of every month that would be ok with me. I like to spread out and donate a dollar or two to many campaigns so this represents a huge increase and at first I thought the flat fee would be per subscription but when I read that it was also per POST that made it too hard to swallow. Anyway at this point I have cut my subscriptions to my top 3 favorite so I can stick around after whatever happens.

Vincent Sloan

There are Patreon alternatives like Drip, Flattr, and Steady. I heartily suggest investigating those. Because this is bigger than just you--it is having a chilling effect on how people perceive Patreon as a company in general. The capacity to make such a rash decision with so little notice at this particular time of year doesn't inspire much faith in executive leadership, so I think the ripple effects on Patreon itself may be significant. It might simply be a wise idea to take the temperature of some of your fellow creatives and discuss alternatives sooner than later because who knows what might happen.

Corey Johnston

You might want to check out this post: <a href="https://owenkcstephens.com/2017/12/07/patreon-pledge-levels/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://owenkcstephens.com/2017/12/07/patreon-pledge-levels/</a>

Ben

I agree with Colarmel. If there was a better alternative to Patreon that would be ideal but I doubt there is (yet). I use your maps constantly -- exclusively, really, unless I have a need for one that doesn't exist. You could charge so much more than you do. I'm certainly getting my $5 worth. I'm staying, so long as you do.

Thank you Colarmel. I'm also tempted to just up and build my own membership/subscription system, but I know that I would be abandoning a great many who wouldn't bother transferring, or who like to have all the subscriptions on one site, or who don't trust other platforms... Maybe I could have both? I will think on it.

Ross from 2-Minute Tabletop

So my gut instinct is to quit Patreon and try to support you by buying up the non-CC maps I don't have yet. I seldom GM, but I like using quality maps when I do. I don't like the size of the price jump, but my patronage is small enough it's not a big hit, just the principle of the thing.

Cody Norton