Poll: Cliff warnings
Added 2024-11-07 23:47:37 +0000 UTCLook, I promise I am not sitting behind my computer twirling my moustache while I concoct the most brutal, heart wrenching cliffs possible.
It's quite genuinely just how I write, and avoiding cliffs would mean chapters wildly swing between 500 and 9k words. I'm not trying to inflate word count or anything, there's just a crap load of character, skill development, and pay off to fit into a skill evo we have been working towards for 100 chapters. I promise next chapter has more to it than 'skill description, scene ends, next scene starts'. If the skill description was the end of the scene, I would have tacked it on to chapter 103 (seriously, the skill description would have been even worse of a cliff).
However, I do understand that some of you really really wanna get to the pay off of tension in one go.
To that end, I am open to putting a A/N at the top of chapters that start a high tension sequence that lets you know how long they go on for.
Comments
Cliffhangers are my fave. love em.
Tim Judge
2024-11-08 20:01:31 +0000 UTCAs a reader, I understand that a cliff at the end of a chapter is a useful tool for building tension before the release in the next chapter. That is, however, when the tension is built in the right way. The MC ventures into a cave and then passes out? Oh no what has happened! I must keep reading. Because it is an UNKNOWN. When tension is built by merely hiding information that I as a reader know is coming? It’s sort of like a false cliff and really does nothing more than irritate. I agree that there are set plans for chapters etc. but in this instance, for example, Kaius could’ve glanced at the notification and THEN passed out. We get the info we have been craving and essentially racing to the end of the chapter to see, & there is a cliff of concern over what has happened to the MC so there is some tension. So yeah, totally happy with cliffs. It’s the quality of the cliff that matters. Enjoying the story but this is something to consider improving I feel. Edit to add: plus, with an unknown cliff, it gives us readers something to discuss before the next chapter drop! It’s a fun, curious tension I think. Rather than all being salty over not getting the skill blurb or whatever!
Tommy
2024-11-08 09:29:18 +0000 UTCTo be honest I would rather have longer chapters but with fewer releases, this allows for the tension to build and dissipate multiple times in a single read based on your writing style. In traditional novels a chapter break is a place where the reader knows they can put the novel down. A rest per say. I do love your story though, do not take that love lightly.
Aureus
2024-11-08 05:52:47 +0000 UTCOk, so, in one hand, write what you want to write. Literally ignore us if you think it's best for the book. Quality above all else. With that said, do read and think about the feedback and decide if there are gains if truth that can be used to improve. Thinking about what works best and using feedback to gain experience is OP.
Matt
2024-11-08 05:50:30 +0000 UTCThat is categorically false. They have gotten more common because they are a self-perpetuating blight. As more authors write cliffs into every chapter, so do new writers learn that same behavior, subconsciously absorbing the pattern as a hallmark of how web novels "should" be written.
Dax
2024-11-08 04:50:55 +0000 UTCIm torn. On one hand cliffs are part of the format of webnovels, its just baked in. You do a good job using it. Im highly anticipating this next chapter. On the other? This particular cliff today felt forced. This chapter could have been split in half and added to the previous chapter and the next chapter and it would have been waaaay more enjoyable. Its ok to make huge important moments longer chapters. Either way I wouldnt sweat it, great writing, loving the mechanics and the characters!
CPTincognito
2024-11-08 04:39:50 +0000 UTCDefiance of the Fall was a Patreon I bailed on fairly early because of egregious and predatory cliff use
Dax
2024-11-08 03:37:54 +0000 UTCHonestly, "It's quite genuinely just how I write" seems like a copout. As many others have mentioned on the latest chapter, all you would have needed to do was put the skill description. A tame 100-ish word swing, as opposed to the 8500 word swing you mentioned. You'd still have the reaction to the skill upgrade in the next chapter, and I would still feel anticipation for those reactions, while not feeling like my catharsis was stolen. The point of a cliffhanger is to make the outcome uncertain enough that an audience waits with bated breath to see what happens next. It doesn't work nearly so well when the audience knows what's going to happen. Rather than a cliffhanger, you've presented a door to your audience, so we're just . . . staring at a door, waiting for it to open. In this case, you're eliciting impatience rather than anticipation, which simply leaves a reader dissatisfied and unfulfilled. Also, if you have a surprise after the 'cliffhanger' (in this case, perhaps the system pulls them into some challenge to pressure them, or forces class selection early, etc), the cliffhanger itself should be related to it. So if that were to be the case, it would have been much better to have put the skill description and then a message from the system along the lines of, "[Commencing Class Selection]," or, "[Challenge Initiated]," etc. It surprises the reader and gives them something to wonder about, without merely delaying information that they know they're going to receive.
OriksGaming
2024-11-08 03:37:35 +0000 UTCNeither. Cliffhangers are generally bad writing. They were traditionally at the end of whole books to hook a reader for the next one. This was also seen as a little shady, but at least reasonable. For web novels, they can be seen in much the same way - contrived specifically to increase numbers of people pushed to paid services like Patreon. Except now it's at the end of every chapter. It's a blight that has unfortunately spread through webnovel culture, and as more do it, so do more people unconsciously incorporate it into their own writing style because they think that's how writing is done. It's a vicious cycle.
Dax
2024-11-08 03:30:51 +0000 UTCI enjoy the story so far but the cliffhangers are killing it. It doesn't build tension, it builds agrivation. Part of the problem is that you aren't posting "chapters", you are posting "scenes". A chapter, in a professional novel, is usually three to five scenes ending with an, at least minor, resolution to a plot point. To point directly at last chapter, everything from him getting his last Legacy skill to next chapter when we see his new skill should have been one chapter. This would be starting a chapter from finally explaining what the bond is, and ending it with the skill description of the updated skill. The chapter after that might include them discussing the skill, any updates on thier achievements from the merge, and them starting on their passage to the next area, ending with either the name of the next area or a view of the dwarven city, depending on where they are going.
Tristan R Mitchell
2024-11-08 02:26:56 +0000 UTCRead Inexorable chaos. Cliff King with that guy
BearerOfDoom
2024-11-08 01:34:35 +0000 UTCIt's like reading Inexorable chaos all over again. Every chapter was a freaking cliff. The options listed are all redundant to what I feel like most readers want. But alas, I still do genuinely appreciate this Novel even being written. Cliff or not
BearerOfDoom
2024-11-08 01:32:27 +0000 UTCI think there is a reasonable point to be made that the last few chapters have the payoff of the previous chapter at the beginning of the next one. I don't think that's something you needed to do - you've set up a sufficiently compelling story without it. What often works well is giving us the payoff (and info) at the end of a chapter, so that we have information to work and engage with in the comments. That's much better than getting info at the top of the chapter and then that feeling lost because of the next cliff. Also, you need to consider reading satisfaction with short chapters. I find the most satisfying chapters have at least 3 'things' in them - whereas your chosen format has one. That's fine, but when you split that one across two chapters, the effect is that I read the final 20% of the previous chapter and then 80% of the next story beat, it feels like I've only read 80% of a point - which is unsatisfying, especially when it happens multiple chapters in a row. I started writing this comment thinking I was okay with the cliffs, and I've realised that I'm not - because they have multiple storytelling reasons not to exist.
Rheklr
2024-11-08 01:28:02 +0000 UTCYou are writing in a certain chapter format, this should inform your scenes layout disposition. You could have easily fit the skill description at the end of the chapter and we’d have had less of a feeling that you are just messing with us, putting paragraphs of fluff on how the merge/evolution is mind shattering pain and just leaving out the meat all the set up was leading to. At the beginning of the next chapter it just won’t have the same effect if one is not binging.
yohan gu
2024-11-08 00:57:16 +0000 UTC103 was better than 102. Cliff are aways a challenge in serial vs novel releases. You want each chapter to fulfilling in and of itself by giving some progression and resolution. You could always just set a release cadence that allows you a larger backlog for flexibility to double release where one chapter is entirely exposition for the next. That way you can make sure each release is fulfilling rather than each chapter.
Samuel McCarren
2024-11-08 00:55:03 +0000 UTCI don't care. I just go "Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" and move on. =P
Paratus
2024-11-08 00:51:24 +0000 UTCPutting information at the end of the chapter is not « worse of a cliff », it is letting people have something to think about while waiting, with greater excitement, might I add, for the next chapter.
yohan gu
2024-11-08 00:50:26 +0000 UTCI pretty much don’t read for a week or two. Some authors I read write like you.
IdolTrust
2024-11-08 00:37:14 +0000 UTCBesides, there is no way you can possible eclipse the Dungeon Crawler Carl cliffs... that guy posts nothing but cliff chapters.
The Lost Pages
2024-11-08 00:17:18 +0000 UTCI am all too aware of the Dao of the Cliff and have long since joined in cultivation of it thanks to Defiance of the Fall. No warnings are necessary.
The Lost Pages
2024-11-08 00:15:58 +0000 UTCAlthough I voted for the banking chapters option, I don't mind overall either way. What matters to me is that you're aware of it and not purposefully TRYING to cause cliffs as some other authors do, as I've noticed it increases my engagement when the chapters feel satisfying and I look forward to the next one, as opposed to it feeling like a one piece filler episode between each relevant event.
Connor Hartmann
2024-11-08 00:14:01 +0000 UTCI've been really enjoying the story so far but was a little disappointed in the chapters from the last skill merge it was something that we'd mostly seen before and didn't come with a description. It feels not much that is unpredictable has happened in a while I mean the whole bonding skill thing was obvious since he brought it up so the explanation on why it's slightly different took a chapter then the getting the skill took a chapter and we still don't know what the skill will be. I feel like if I knew how long I'd have to wait before hand it would lead to less disappointment. I don't do discord though find it messy and annoying maybe I'm just old and grumpy. Whatever I know this comment has been pretty negative but I have really enjoyed your story so far
deushadow
2024-11-08 00:06:28 +0000 UTCBut I can see you twirling your moustache right now!
Hunter Vook
2024-11-08 00:06:06 +0000 UTCAs someone who doesn't want an A/N spoiling the tension, I think a good middle ground would be a layer of indirection. Keeping the information of how many chapters to bank behind spoiler text where supported, or like a link to a discord message. Just putting it in discord isn't very discoverable on its own, and putting it directly in the chapter makes it a little too easy to read unintentionally for those who don't want to.
Valinora
2024-11-08 00:01:58 +0000 UTC"sitting behind my computer twirling my moustache" Now this is exactly how I will think of you as you write each chapter! As for the poll, don't mind either way.
David White
2024-11-08 00:01:09 +0000 UTCShould be in discord for anyone that doesn’t want to be spoiled. Everyone else can just join discord
Ihsan Gunay
2024-11-07 23:52:35 +0000 UTCCliffs are part of the process, I personally find the anticipation enjoyable.
Michael Crenshaw
2024-11-07 23:50:08 +0000 UTC
