Episode 78: The Half-Baked 'Grooming' Allegations Against Alice Ripley And The Cringeworthy Awokening Of The Sports World (feat. Ethan Strauss)

I've never been a huge fan of Ethan but probably wouldn't be able to explain why. I think him mentioning that something can be proved with social psychology cemented my previous notions. It's nice to see he's anti-woke though.

LOVE Ethan Strauss, and it made it possible to get my husband, who recognized his voice from the other end of the house, to raise an eyebrow and listen to Blocked & Reported. Yes, please do have him on again. Great chemistry with Jesse, too.

The Alice Ripley section reminded me of a recent furore about the comics creator Warren Ellis. Allegations against him were catalogued in lengthy "testimonials" on a specially created websites - grown adults (some nearly 30 years of age!) complaining of being “groomed” and the like, resulting in Ellis (who, to be clear, seems like a bit of a arsehole) being ostracised and losing lots of work as he’s now been labelled as a predator. https://www.somanyofus.com/testimonials I defy people to explain what his ‘crime’ is in a lot of those cases. In some of them, they never met. In a lot of the others, he’s essentially guilty of being a shitty person and boyfriend. One person states that he hypnotised her via email, which I'm not sure is even possible. (Anybody with expertise who could clear that up?) This is the sort of article that followed in the trade press: https://www.comicsbeat.com/more-than-60-people-document-predatory-behavior-by-warren-ellis/ These sort of stories are essentially a wealth of ammunition for people who wish to dismiss stories of real exploitative abuse - and as somebody who was a victim of such a relationship, I find that incredibly worrying.

The YouTube video is "private" but this Vimeo works for me:  https://vimeo.com/585385587

I dislike a lot of cringe woke ads, but Strauss seems to be suggesting that masculinity is inherently cruel and domineering. Isn’t this just misandry? He throws around “fighting the patriarchy” glibly, but does he really think this is an unworthy goal that’s mutually exclusive from sports? What about domestic violence among sports stars? Would Stauss also be opposed to trying to fight this because it’s part of the players’ “masculinity”? I mean, if you actually believe that negative “masculine” behaviors and sports are inseparable, what’s the argument for not just throwing out sports completely? Just because people like something doesn’t mean it’s good. Stauss seems to conflate wokeness and genuine social progress. I like this podcast because I thought it recognized the distinction between the two. I wish Jesse pushed back on this a bit more.

Serious question: why do you think all team sports are down? Just abbreviated/weird seasons? (I don't watch any team sports and don't really care about the wokeness or lack thereof in any sport.. I dont have an ax to grind here.)

Matt, I believe ratings are down in all team sports — why were hockey ratings down 60%? I don’t think the social activism HELPED ratings, but I heard more complaints from folks that never watch (or haven’t watched in years) than NBA fans. The woke ads and even the “message jerseys” may be clunky and eye roll-inducing, but nowhere near as cringeworthy as asking “why don’t they just shut up and play?” Jesse offered some mild pushback (I still don’t follow Strauss’s “manliness” point) but I would’ve liked to hear much more.

why do you think nba ratings are in decline?

he has a good podcast persona. i've liked listening to all of the guests they've had on. i wish that they would bring them back regularly.

I likey Strauss because he has an excellent vocabulary and uses cool words correctly and effortlessly. It's the skill I want more than any other but will likely never be able to attain.

can you guys modulate your levels better? I have to turn Jesse down and turn Katie up.

I was a bit disappointed with the interview, and would’ve liked to hear a bit more pushback from Jesse. I’m still unsure why the sports dude is now on substack — because he shares a vapid theory with trump about why NBA ratings declined? Because the wokeness is stifling the manliness? Because Nike ads “used to be awesome” but now suck? Because NBA players are concerned about social justice? As much as I love this podcast, I do think issues involving race are handled the least successfully. “Do better!”

capitol hill

went into the basketball interview expecting to be bored out of my mind, left kinda even more deeply neurotic and anxious about society. I really like the guest interviews and think almost they should be a more regular part of the show. but also I would have liked to have heard katie's perspective bc they touched on a lot of things that I think she could have some interesting insight into. anyway, what I'm trying to say is, make more content.

Men men Menity men masculine blah blah. IDK man, it's always seemed to me that the big division in mainstream team sports fannishness is a sort of education / class one rather than primarily gender based one. I know only a handful of academics who are into sports but like regular poeple like my kids parents male and female are into the team sports thing "Go Bills! GO Tarheels!" etc. And my husband and I are akwardly like "haha"...

I think the guy being interviewed doesn’t have an issue with wokeness in sports, but has an issue with a specific type of wokeness in sports: that which conflicts with stereotypical manhood. And there wasn’t enough diving into that lurking theme so the interview seemed disingenuous. Like when he goes “I think the players feel more comfortable speaking out against racism.” No Ethan I think YOU feel more comfortable with that.

Entertainment media (music, games, movies, etc.) has gotten way worse than sports journalism.

Washingtonian here, which mountain was this?? I feel like I've gone on some hikes like this and it effectively conquered my fear of heights.

I don't know if Katie reads these comments, but if she does, Katie, I was like you. I had a fear of heights. Since you're in the northwest, I highly recommend the Exum climbing school at the Grand Teton National Park. They start you off on gently sloped rocks and before you know it you're a hundred feet up. They do it so slowly over two days you really don't even notice you are being acclimated to heights. And it's a blast. Ta da! No more fear of heights!

Perhaps, yes. For example I think it's perfectly reasonable for Colin Kaepernick to decide he will kneel instead of being ordered to stand for the national anthem. Though it is possible to be consistent in arguing "This person should be free to express their opinions publicly." and also "This person is not free to express their opinions at work, while they're supposed to be working." For example, we reasonably demand that weather presenters don't insert political commentary into their forecasts, actors don't insert their own political commentary into plays, et cetera.

lol this Strauss guy is very cringe

I remember that very article and it was such a stark contrast from the regular Athletic fare I started following him on twitter. May have to give that sub a look; he was great

I really enjoyed the Strauss interview even if I did feel like he was overstating his case. I’m looking forward to reading his newsletter though. The great awokening in sports media seems even worse when compared to the rest of the media. It’s hard for me to judge though because I essentially stopped watching ESPN in late 2015 after my son was born. I just don’t have time to read or pay attention to anything outside of my local sports team.

It's almost like they don't care if we ever love again.

Jo Lynn

Losing time, panic attack...

Anyone else think Katie was just too high on her hike?

After listening to the interview with this sports bro, can someone explain to me how this isn't entire podcast isn't anything more than right wing pearl clutching at this point? Also, does he know Trump lost?

Vincent Mastronardi

Good to know I am not the only bloodsport enthusiast around here. I think it's a lot of things (including what you said): with each fighter doing at most only a couple fights a year its hard to maintain that presence. Its not like you have a game every week where you can showboat your politics. Also the fan base probably does skew right wing or at least culturally conservative. But most of all I think it's just that so much, not all but most, of this woke stuff is so penny ante and inconsequential. And fighting is real and extremely hard and dangerous. Its hard to moan about how JK Rowling's opinions are going to Literally Murder Children when you're covered in blood and cant stand because your tibia just cracked.

Totally. I have zero interest in sports and I found him fascinating.

Where on here do I send my personal ad?

Yes, this is a classic case of ‘super fan’ behaviour tipping into obsession, with the resulting fall-out when the actress tried to be friendly and kind. She probably felt bad for the autistic kid and assumed it was the normal-for-autistic deep interest in the play and not an unhealthy interest with her personally.

It's interesting how wokeness in sports and sports coverage isn't evenly distributed. I watch a lot of boxing and UFC. The way they're covered feels almost completely different from how the NFL and NBA get covered. The broadcasts and journalism around combat sports feel way more aimed at normies. Is it because combat sports are less mainstream and less popular? Do the people covering them figure that the type of fans who watch people hit each other for money won't be receptive to social justice narratives? The UFC in a weird sort of way is kind of progressive without the wokeness. It has women's and men's fights on the same broadcasts, women sometimes headline the big pay-per-view cards, and there are a number of openly lesbian fighters like two division champion Amanda Nunes. Amanda's wife Nina is a UFC fighter too. While the UFC broadcasts don't shy away from mentioning this, they don't make a big deal out of it. Some UFC fighters like Trump superfan Colby Covington do have an obnoxious political streak. I think it probably bothers fans less than it would in team sports. In the NFL if there's a guy on your team whose political views are driving you crazy, you don't want to root against him because you want to see your team win. In the UFC if someone's political views piss you off you can cheer on their opponent and hope they get beaten up. People don't usually think of Muhammad Ali's fights this way now, but part of the reason they were so popular is that people hated Ali's outspoken politics and wanted to watch him get his ass kicked.

Being a Celtics and Patriots fan is the most cancel worthy thing about Jesse

Its been so many years but I know the late great David Rakoff won the This American Life testosterone contest.

Jordan Bickett

Is the disease Danny DeVito has that makes him so short called “being Southern Italian”? 4’11” is pretty respectable for the sicilian side of my family…

I can't speak to the female side but on the male side I find the death of adult-child friendships to be extremely sad. I had a lot of fun with non familial adults, mainly men, who were maybe nominally "taking care of me" for an afternoon, but who were really just fun friends. As a kid I think I'd have loved to hang out with now middle aged childless me. I have all kinds of crazy books and magazines and music and musical instruments and sports equipment. And I think as an adult I might enjoy hanging out with a kid now and then. But I'd be terrified to do it because nowadays everybody would assume I'm trying bang the kid.

When I was about 14, I developed a close mother daughter like relationship with a camp leader in her 20s. There was nothing remotely inappropriate about the relationship, and it was wonderful to have an additional year and support in my life. I understand Katie‘s point about double standards with regards to men and women mentoring young kids, but I honestly think that might be somewhat justified. First, because women are simply far less likely to commit sexual misconduct. And secondly, because there’s a natural instinct (maternal, if you well) to nurture kids. My older sister also had some female mentors in their 20s when she was in high school and going through an extremely hard time.I think the most realistic reading of the situation is that these girls were and are emotionally unstable, became obsessively devoted To this actress, and she tried to be kind. Obviously, if their parents were letting them follow her around to different cities, They weren’t super attuned to the unhealthy behaviors of their kids. I expect she simply felt bad for them. Moreover, theater kids are often social outcasts. She may have felt protective because she identified with that experience.

I really doubt that companies are leaving a lot of money on the table by embracing wokeness. I wish it were so. But I doubt it. There is simply less drama in being woke than in not. And you don't want drama if you're a Disney or a Chase or a Nike. Unwokeness is niche. That may change eventually but for now the vast majority dont know or dont care. (Maybe there's specific exceptions like the NBA, but overall I think I'm right.)

Vaguely reminiscent of the rat-fucking of Alex Morse, who was accused of... letting people with crushes on him follow him on Instagram.

Manzell Blakeley

Is there any music writer like Ethan Strauss (Freddie sort of counts but he has a broader focus)? If so you should get them on to talk about the how these trends have informed coverage of music since 2015-2016.

yellowkid

"To-cuck-ville" 😂

I liked the interview about the direction of sports too. The reason so many love sports is because it's about the most true meritocracy that exists (not always the case historically of course). Further, as he noted, it is very masculine. As someone that used to really like sports, if somewhat casually, I've stopped watching them altogether. I used to think the bottom line ruled in Hollywood and at corporations, the sports kind included, but whatever you call this woke thing it's clearly powerful enough to make it the secondary concern, and I think that is what worries me most about it.

CTE

Plus, Broadway shows are expensive, so the parents are probably the ones paying for it. Are none of them concerned by the fact that their daughters are spending a lot of money to go see Broadway shows and stake out a particular actress? Do they not notice that the girls seem to be close with a Broadway actress who's decades older? I want a hardball interview with these parents.

All I can think of during this Alice Ripley stuff is: Where were these girls' parents? Did they not notice notice their 14 year old going to a bunch of Broadway shows? To be fair, though, I'd probably ditch mine if either of them were theater kids.

Yeah it's 'officially' launching later today. -Jesse

You guys should close the personals section and open a parasocial grooming service.

I get woke complaints but some people are hypocritical when they complain about censorship and players protesting police violence simultaneously.

JGraves

That was a really interesting interview, great work

George Sinclair

Regarding Nike's new ads and the female dynasty: if I owned a WNBA franchise the first thing I would do would be to fill it with male trans stringers. It won't be long until the WNBA has no true females. What will Nike do then?

Ethan’s sub stack sounds great but sign up is “Invite Only”. Does he mean it to be this way?

Ethan is a fantastic guest, and you should think about having him on again in the future if there are more wokeness/sports issues that come up and that you think merit talking about (as seems likely). FWIW, I remember reading a piece last year by him for the Athletic that touched on the political / cringe aspects on the NBA bubble -- it was a thoughtful piece, but I also remember having the sense that he was walking on eggshells and not criticizing it as directly or bluntly as he would have liked -- may be relevant to the question of why he moved to Substack...

The sports guy was great. I’ve gotta check him out.

Rhys Halliwell

Notification just woke me up. You know you’re a fan when you’re like “4 am?! this better not be Mom with another piece of covid advi— oh, BAP… Good stuff.”

LTO

Jesse's up late tonight! This ep dropped at 4am EDT.