The Luigi Mangione Case: A NY Defense Attorney Breaks It Down
Added 2024-12-13 09:20:21 +0000 UTCOA1099 - Superstar Gavel Gavel contributor Liz Skeen joins to answer all of your questions about the arrest of Luigi Mangione and the charges he will soon be facing for his alleged shooting of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in the courthouse where she serves as a public defender. Also: Biden’s record-breaking day of clemency.
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Comments
@Thomas - might have got left on the cutting room floor because the reference is missing in the Patreon feed version, but my podcast player showed these additional tidbits that I'm sad to have missed out on: "11th Circuit judge Kevin Newsom’s surprisingly defensible argument that judges and lawyers should occasionally consult with ChatGPT, and a footnote about some recent cases involving judges being weird about food" PS if this is a spoiler, lmk, and I'll delete the comment. LYW,KOKO.
I am a philosophical hole
2024-12-15 15:56:02 +0000 UTCThanks for covering this case. One issue I'd like to hear more about in future coverage is how evidence admission and evaluation will work with multiple states involved. For example, are items the PA cops say they found in Mangione's possession seem relevant to a NY prosecution. Are there any disagreements between NY law and PA law re: how evidence must be collected and stored that could be relevant here? If so, does a NY court hold the NY prosecutors to the PA laws of evidence? Another issue I'd like to hear more about is the defense's right, if any, to private evidence such as the security camera footage recorded by McDonalds. There were some early stories that talked about how he was approached there, taken into custody, and potentially not searched until much later that seem relevant to a defense. They all seem like they would have been recorded by the McDonalds security cameras or maybe even cell phones of other patrons. Can the defense team compel the McDonalds to preserve that?
Drew Vogel
2024-12-14 19:47:14 +0000 UTCUnrelated, but love your Patreon name
Katie Byrum
2024-12-14 18:58:31 +0000 UTCfuck. I just learned about this acquittal. fuck.
lauren
2024-12-14 18:39:42 +0000 UTCI zoned out for a second and thought his lawyer's name was Al Tuna. I chose to remain in this world.
Jon C
2024-12-14 17:01:25 +0000 UTCIs Mangione likely to get the correct pain medication when he’s incarcerated?
Rae
2024-12-14 15:17:02 +0000 UTCAs a person with chronic pain that came on when I was Luigis age, I understand what happened to him. It throws you off the path you're on and forces you to reimagine your identity. I am lucky enough to not live in the USA so I was able to do that without dealing with the USA health system. I'd say the extreme emotional disturbance makes so much sense to me from my lived experience. Rather than choosing to rebuild himself it looks to me like Luigi channeled the anger and pain he felt at a pretty understandable outlet. The resulting discussion around healthcare has educated me a lot. It's a weird time to be a person with chronic pain and psychology background who is also a big OA fan 🥲 I am glad Liz could explain so much, great ep.
Jess C
2024-12-14 05:36:53 +0000 UTCIt feels like everyone i know is struggling at least a bit with how much sense it made, and maybe if pertinent revisions should be made to our moral codes. I am also of course anti-murder, and generally committed to non-violence as a way of life. But here's the thing: daniel penny was just acquitted in the same courthouse where mangione will be tried because a jury of his peers agreed that he killed an unwell unhoused man on the subway in front of a crowd in defense of others. Luigi mangione killed a man who had overseen the needless deaths of more people than we'll ever know, but it feels dangerous to suggest that he was also acting in defense of others. We are in the strangest times.
Matt Cameron
2024-12-14 05:23:46 +0000 UTCWe certainly all agreed that chronic pain would a strong emotional distress defense, but i wish i had been able to articulate it as well as you have done here.
Matt Cameron
2024-12-14 05:11:35 +0000 UTCWith regards to emotional distress as a defense, There is a reason that chronic pain is a giant risk factor for suicide. Being in pain for extended periods of time erodes the mind in a way that previously unthinkable acts become the logical course of action. In fact, there is a nerve pain condition known colloquially as "Suicide Syndrome" due to the fact that its' sufferers have a high mortality rate, without the disease causing anything but facial pain. It can be an easy jump in the mind from suicide to homicide, especially when denied care in the way UHC delights in.
Jace
2024-12-14 02:17:59 +0000 UTCAs a native Altoonan... yeah, we're just like that. Although I have it on decent authority that Blair County Corrections is probably better than Rikers, so I can't fault him for wanting to stick around in PA. As to why Dickey is running his mouth and not just shutting up, I couldn't tell you. He's pretty reputable for the area and has extensive criminal defense experience. Could just be the limelight getting to him, but I don't personally know the man, so I couldn't tell you. PS: Dammit, I wish people would stop calling Altoona a small town. Yes, it's a shithole, but it's a populated shithole!
Mr. Wilt
2024-12-13 22:51:18 +0000 UTCYeah definitely
Opening Arguments
2024-12-13 22:26:51 +0000 UTCAlso: I wonder if the PA attorney has more civil than criminal litigation experience. It sounds like he was trying to tee up a defamation claim at the beginning of his statement, like he misunderstood the assignment. And sounded clueless about basic criminal stuff.
Katie Herrmann
2024-12-13 18:14:29 +0000 UTCWhen I had heard the initial details of the crime only, I absolutely assumed the shooter had been a woman. Maybe bc it was an act of violence that kind of made sense to me? For the record, whoever is reading this, I am vehemently anti-murder.
Katie Herrmann
2024-12-13 17:42:47 +0000 UTCNo way the jury lets him walk on having a NJ ID
Maxwell Skipworth
2024-12-13 16:53:25 +0000 UTCOn one hand, concealing his identity and legging it to PA indicates he knew the impact of his actions... On the other, carrying around his I Totally Did It starter kit, maybe not?
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-12-13 16:12:10 +0000 UTCSeems like the least they could fucking do
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-12-13 16:06:17 +0000 UTCThe shareholders, United healthcare should have to foot the bill for both rewards
Oso Hermoso
2024-12-13 15:58:59 +0000 UTCI call major bullshit. Why would somebody smart enough to use the silencer still have all their shit in a bag and a manifesto and they just…. I mean, come on!
Oso Hermoso
2024-12-13 15:41:10 +0000 UTCI'll be honest my empathy for it was already low but a few days after the incident happened I looked up how many homicides there had been in the last 30 days in NY. There were 23 at the time and Google had very little information about anyone else than the CEO. Plus I deliver for the Bezos and learning this week that he got tax credits for having children because on paper he looked poor to the IRS kind of has me just shrugging. As a song I heard said "note the time of death and move on."
Wesley Harney
2024-12-13 15:30:09 +0000 UTCThe inequity of effort in the NY shooting case is obviously regrettable, but isn't it a long standing plot point or trope from almost every cop show, for years now? It certainly didn't come as a surprise to me. There are even two shows - The Closer and Major Crimes - in which the premise is that the unit concentrates on high profile crimes.
AliceMerray
2024-12-13 15:23:23 +0000 UTCUHC putting up a massive reward from funds extracted from their overcharged underserved customers would have been the ultimate irony.
Garry Myers
2024-12-13 14:02:33 +0000 UTCI'm so embarrassed on behalf of Western PA- that Altoona lawyer is yinzer cringe. No one should know anything about Altoona 🤦♀️
can I get a CHEE-HOOOOO
2024-12-13 14:01:09 +0000 UTCOk I have to get one out of my system, Dickey should send New York a letter like "I regret to inform you that my client is in an out-of-network jail and cannot be tried for this pre-existing murder"
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-12-13 12:06:28 +0000 UTC
