Please Stop Spreading Panic About Denaturalization
Added 2024-12-02 09:46:16 +0000 UTCOA1094 - Denaturalization and an executive order revoking birthright citizenship for children of undocumented parents have both been in the news a lot recently, and Matt would like everyone to take a breath and do some realistic risk assessment. We review what it actually takes to denaturalize someone under our current system, and what it would take for a majority of even this Supreme Court to say that the Fourteenth Amendment doesn’t say exactly what it says.
Departure Statement of Wong Kim Ark, National Archives San Francisco
Trump announcement on birthright citizenship executive order, Agenda 47 (2024)
Birthright Citizens: a History of Race and Rights in Antebellum History, Martha Jones (2018)
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Comments
It’s not so much that I’m scared that it’ll happen, but the fact that we have to, in any serious way, consider that they want to ditch the 14th amendment is terrifying.
Richard Stifle
2024-12-05 14:44:17 +0000 UTCHow do these attempts to end birthright citizenship at any level square with fetal personhood? It seems like it would cause the definition of an unworkable system.
Wishing every Clarence Thomas a very God rest his soul
2024-12-04 20:34:04 +0000 UTCLosing 501(c)(3) status is a big deal. I also wonder how 9495 would aid Trump in trying to deport people if it should pass. I know Matt tried to encourage us to settle down, and I might be histrionic or hyperbolic or unable to calm my fears about how horrible the upcoming Trump presidency is going to be. Remember last time when attorneys were hanging out at airports to help people impacted by one of Trump’s executive orders? https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-creates-section-dedicated-denaturalization-cases
Susan
2024-12-04 05:56:37 +0000 UTCGlad to head we might be hearing about 9495 in the future. I hate to be a doomer, but the fact there really hasn't been any forward thought about that legislation and how it's going to be used is something that utterly terrifies me. On the last RRF thread, I brought it up, and maybe I was being a little hyperbolic in worrying about the Trump Admin just making 'antifa' a terrorist org and being able to staple any left-leaning orgs to it, but for example any support of the Palestinian state at all could be seen as supporting a terrorist organization considering members of their government are classified as a terrorist organization. All in all, not the end of the world, since all it really is is taking away tax breaks for non-profits, but hurting groups that are literally just trying to help people isn't great.
Mr. Wilt
2024-12-04 00:09:54 +0000 UTCIt appears to me that Trump is trying to weaponize the government against Americans and yet this is item 9 in his Agenda 47: END THE WEAPONIZATION OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE Here's the link: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform
Susan
2024-12-03 17:07:36 +0000 UTCTrump made that comment in the context of campus protests, and was specifically talking about revoking the student visas of people vocally protesting against Israel's war crimes. Student visas are one of the most tenuous legal statuses you can have--but even there as things stand with our current law/system it is very difficult to deport someone for political opinions. It was a very different system with far fewer guardrails (for whatever you might think guardrails are worth right now) when they came for Emma Goldman, but I did want to be sure to acknowledge that denaturalization has been weaponized this way before. And I am especially concerned by 9495 and we should probably talk about it soon. The only hope there is that under the current system the government can't just arbitrarily designate anything a terrorist organization--but of course as you noted, they apparently *can* arbitrarily say that your organization is associated with one without providing the evidence, and that is very bad. Really hoping this one doesn't go anywhere.
Matt Cameron
2024-12-03 16:39:15 +0000 UTCInteresting that Nazis and Emma Goldman have been denaturalized. Trump said in agenda 47 that he was going to deport “pro-hamas radicals”. Robert’s comment about prosecutorial abuse is reassuring HR 9495 is also alarming because it will let the Trump administration label groups, without evidence, as a terrorist organization? Thanks for discussing “subject to the jurisdiction”
Susan
2024-12-03 13:42:01 +0000 UTCThank you Matt for this deep-dive!! The fraught complicated history of derivation or acquisition of US citizenship is another incredibly complex subject worth exploring. You guys are my heroes right now!! And I appreciate you very much.
Status Quo Level Thing
2024-12-02 21:42:09 +0000 UTCThe "Let me just say upfront that I'm not an idiot" quote is outstanding. Really interesting ep, I had fallen for what I was reading on social media about this so a dive was helpful.
Jess C
2024-12-02 19:56:35 +0000 UTCReally grateful for this type of episode because it *is* nice not to worry about one less thing.
Rachel J Larris
2024-12-02 19:20:01 +0000 UTCI figure he must be if he has to leverage his hold over coworkers to get anyone to sleep with him.
dddebz
2024-12-02 16:53:45 +0000 UTCI once ran into Bill O’Reilly when I worked at the Capitol. I can’t go into details, but I can say he is as much of an asshole in person as he appears to be in his silly, sad vlog.
Austin Flake
2024-12-02 13:56:07 +0000 UTC
