OA688: Oh No, the Privilege is MINE!
Added 2023-02-10 03:52:37 +0000 UTCToday, Liz and Andrew have two stories for us, each touching on executive privilege.
We begin with a quick fun Liz story where what comes around, goes around, particularly in Georgia.
Then, for the first main story, Liz gives us a detailed update in the E. Jean Carroll litigation, where Trump has finally replaced Alina Habba with an actual lawyer. How's that going to go for him? Hint: probably still not great.
After that, Andrew picks up a story involving the January 6th Committee, the New York Times, Politico, Judge Beryl A. Howell, executive privilege, and the world's longest minute order. It's a deep dive and a breaking news story all in one!
Notes
It's okay to vote while black in Georgia!
https://www.gpb.org/news/2023/02/08/black-volunteers-passing-out-water-at-2020-albany-voting-site-cleared-of-wrongdoing
Facts about Georgia's restrictions
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/29/josh-holmes/facts-about-georgias-ban-food-water-giveaways-vote/
Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997)
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1768307810279741111
The world's longest minute order
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65636836/application-of-the-new-york-times-company-and-charlie-savage-for-access-to/?order_by=desc
Fed. R. Crim. Pro. 6
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_6
McKeever v. Barr, 920 F.3d 842 (D.C. Cir. 2019)
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3726944855474329424&q=mckeever+v+barr&hl=en&as_sdt=2006
Comments
If the problem with the right is that they continue to support people long past when they should, the left has the opposite problem in bailing the instant there appears to be a flaw in someone. So far, the worst allegation I've seen about Andrew is that he "made some people feel uncomfortable." Wow. I'm looking in the Constitution for where it guarantees everyone the right to never be made uncomfortable. I noticed that when I carried a rifle in defense of this country, nobody seemed especially concerned with my comfort. I also remember Thomas Smith, Allison Gill, and Noah Lugeons all mentioning Andrew as their "close personal friend" on more than one occasion, so we see what THAT is worth on the left. Where I come from a friend is someone you help when they have a problem.
Kevin Hicks
2023-02-17 15:07:49 +0000 UTCHas new information come out?
Uncle Frank's Nephew
2023-02-15 07:40:30 +0000 UTC"For now, I plan to continue listening and supporting the show and will continuously reevaluate this decision as new information becomes available." How's that going so far? Any reevaluation going on yet?
Gretchen Koch
2023-02-14 23:25:54 +0000 UTCActions speak louder than words. Andrew returned to the podcast mere days after removing Thomas and pledging to make changes, and is proceeding as if nothing is amiss. I was waiting to see how the dust would settle. Each patron will have different levels of comfort with this, but I can no longer financially support this podcast if it puts out episodes I cannot enjoy. Thank you for all the news, analysis, and entertainment. They were greatly appreciated.
One, seven, three, four, six, seven, three, two, one, four, seven, six, Charlie, three, two, seven, eight, nine, seven, seven, s
2023-02-12 13:13:39 +0000 UTC3-4 year listener here and I've listened to both sides and read everything here. Thomas' reaction was super convenient given the timing. He was being brought up as an enabler who let Andrew do what he did to keep the peace to have his job. When suddenly his next post put him next to the victim i was suddenly popped out of this entire situation. It was so clear what was happening. His world was being destroyed, due to ANDREW'S ACTIONS, and he panicked and did something really, really, really gross and convenient. He saw it as his only way out, i think he was wrong, and he went for it. I don't think that was right to do and i think long term he will agree with that statement. He is not a victim. His world also wasn't being destroyed, he was just being sucked in by the witch hunting this community went to right away without a moments pause to breath. His behavior as a result of this situation is what has made the situation untenable and irreconcilable. Both folks have made mistakes, on the topic of OA continuing and this episode existing, Thomas has made the mistake which caused this outcome in my opinion. For Andrews side, rape is not alleged just allegations of sexual harassment / adultery / whatever. This community went from 0 to rapist, harasser, disgusting human, etc so quickly my head is still spinning. This is the left eating its own and i personally am not here for it. The moment Thomas made his accusation, everyone switched from coming after him to being on his side and supporting him. I'm sorry but this doesn't seem like a group acting in good faith this seems more like a mob looking for someone, anyone, to stick a pitch fork in. No one was raped here, no one was murdered, and i am here for legal analysis. I think a lot of this community have become way too parasocially connected to these creators and you need to take a step back. If that means no longer listening to the podcast than i sincerely encourage you to do so. Why does that mean the earth needs to remain scorched behind you? Let the individuals pursue the actions they are pursing and it will work itself out. For me, ill continue listening here and also listening to whatever Thomas comes out with because i like him too. I truly think reasonable people can disagree here.
someoneyouusedtoknow
2023-02-12 02:48:57 +0000 UTCI would enjoy listening to Liz Dye read and comment on the best worst Truths on Truth Social.
Fame and fortune guaranteed in the state of Tintucky
2023-02-11 20:29:23 +0000 UTCI'm a computer nerd that enjoys listening to a law nerd so yes I'm a bit uncomfortable with Andrew not taking a break but at the same time I don't think I'll stop listening.
Fame and fortune guaranteed in the state of Tintucky
2023-02-11 20:27:23 +0000 UTCAndrew continues to be a creep. Far from turning over a new leaf as his lukewarm apology seemed to indicate, he just had to victimize Thomas one more time. OA will get no more money from me.
Ginny
2023-02-11 13:40:17 +0000 UTCFinally, Thomas has been purged from my podcast feed! So loving that you are still doing OA! Welcome Liz!
Dsthymia
2023-02-11 02:45:47 +0000 UTCI think @The individual is correct that it may have been Thomas announcing Andrew was stepping away. Maybe that was the original plan, but it was also the right thing to do both ethically (my opinion) and PR (as obvious here and reddit and FB). If there is some obligation pressuring Andrew, he should be open about that or some sort of clear between-the-lines, but also looking to get out of that obligation and/or replace himself ASAP.
el que es causa de la causa es causa del mal causado
2023-02-10 22:43:26 +0000 UTCHis first statement was on Facebook only.
Chris Conley
2023-02-10 22:28:29 +0000 UTCSome of these comments - siding with AT - feels like something I'd be reading on a Newsmax article or something. Yikes.
(You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Ex Parte)
2023-02-10 22:12:36 +0000 UTCThomas said Andrew was stepping away, but Andrew himself didn't actually say it. I must admit, though, that it's what I expected them both to do. If there were contractual obligations to release a certain number of episodes why tell us that?
Dr_Emil_Schaffhousen
2023-02-10 21:51:07 +0000 UTCI’m a sauce packet.
A Sauce Packet
2023-02-10 21:02:54 +0000 UTCVery good suggestions for continuing the podcast. I wished Andrew had chosen one those. I was willing to leave my Patreon support on simmer but this is too much, too soon.
Diane Fishburne
2023-02-10 20:54:59 +0000 UTCI never found where he said he was stepping away. I listened to the apology episode again and he didn't say that. He said he would seek alcohol treatment. I can see how people would assume that means stepping away. Treatment can be done in an outpatient setting without impacting someones work. He actually made clear his intent to keep making OA episodes there.
The Show Goes On
2023-02-10 20:53:10 +0000 UTCThank you for a thoughtful start to these comments, William. So well-parsed. I had originally planned to continue my support on Patreon and give myself and all involved time to sort things out. However, I got quite a shock when I opened my email and found a notification for a new OA. I took more time to consider my actions than Andrew? Seriously? In my mind this is not where his focus should be this week. I can’t continue to engage with this. It is just too upsetting.
Diane Fishburne
2023-02-10 20:48:16 +0000 UTCIt is a particularly poorly choice of title and segment given the current circumstances of Andrew and the podcast. I assume he isn't running any of the production tasks (new intro music, ep title) by anyone else before pulling the trigger.
el que es causa de la causa es causa del mal causado
2023-02-10 20:39:11 +0000 UTCI appreciate your position, and there was way to much and too public rapid fire responses over the last week. However from the outside it sounds like he was able to handle his relationships with PIATS and Cleanup decently. - They are not all "unproven", he has acknowledged/admitted to at least some, though perhaps has been non-specific on which ones are included in that. - No matter how hard the feelings are, it is not appropriate to block and then continue posting to a feed he shares 50:50 with someone else. - he also stated he was stepping away for a few weeks. Some people including myself were supportive of that position that he take time off to figure things out, including the ownership of this feed. That makes these new (paid) episodes within a few days of that seem like he either isn't taking the situation seriously or is reneging on his public statements. If he had followed through with a long hiatus (range of weeks to months) I would feel very differently than I do right now. I don't fault him for wanting to continue a podcast, but I think he has gone about this in a very poorly thought out manner. With Thomas out of the picture, if he was dependent on this income he could have found another person to pair with Liz for the regular episodes and minimized his part to a first introduction to the format and then stepped back until a later date. This may have been his intention until Thomas's post, but by prominently including himself is going to rub a lot of people as disingenuous.
el que es causa de la causa es causa del mal causado
2023-02-10 20:36:02 +0000 UTCNot to mention how self serving Thomas' own accusations were. Just when the mob was turning on him as an enabler we learn he's a victim too. Thomas was ready to move on without Andrew too and obviously Thomas hadn't discussed it with Andrew. He just assumed that's how it would go because of prevailing public sentiment.
The Show Goes On
2023-02-10 20:24:44 +0000 UTCThe vitriol around this situation is insane. I honestly can't believe the way everyone is jumping down Andrew's throat based on a handful of unproven accusations and rumors. Have we learned nothing from listening to OA? Do we have no empathy? The mob screaming that Andrew should lose all his income, his practice, all his credibility in any field, etc etc... it's crazy. Why can't we slow down and have a nuanced conversation about the situation? Why is it so hard to believe he wants to continue with a podcast which he has said is his main gig these days? Why is it hard to understand he make take steps to remove Thomas in advance of Thomas removing him, if it's the primary income for both of them and the partnership has become acrimonious? Why are we assuming we know everything going on behind the scenes? Ah. It's crazy to me.
Mike Gustavson
2023-02-10 20:09:59 +0000 UTCI think I am learning as much about the audience of OA as I have about the creators.
Timothy F Sharp
2023-02-10 18:49:32 +0000 UTCWas going to stick around for the rest of the month to see if things improved, but I see you're doubling down. Gave me a greater appreciation for Thomas and his editing skills, the quotes chosen were too long, obvious safe favorites since you didn't poll the audience, and the read was painfully slow. Check into the program and come back to us when you're working on Step 9.
Galaar
2023-02-10 18:44:13 +0000 UTCHe released that paid episode so he could squeeze every last dollar out of the patrons before everyone jumped ship, since membership had already dropped more than 50% REALLY would never have expected this level of scumbaggery
Blue Gemini
2023-02-10 17:50:29 +0000 UTCAny SHRED of credibility you might have retained based on the goodwill and benefit of the doubt from the community has been destroyed, Andrew. Never would have expected this from you.
Blue Gemini
2023-02-10 17:48:01 +0000 UTCAnd the interesting aside of, "Which you [Andrew] can link to in the show notes." A clear indication that Thomas can't do any posting.
KRiS
2023-02-10 17:31:05 +0000 UTCAndrew - I hope you are getting the help you need for alcoholism. I know I'm a stranger who doesn't know you personally and doesn't understand what you're relationship with alcohol is really like, and perhaps I am wrong - but I clocked you as someone who is in an abusive relationship with alcohol many many moons ago. I'm in the midst of watching a second person who I love slowly kill themselves with a poison they don't recognize as being deadly. I'm supporting people who are watching their loved one disintegrate, bit by bit. Please, please, please. Get. Help. Even if you think you don't need it.
PrincessJohn
2023-02-10 17:22:18 +0000 UTCWell Bill Cosb-I mean Andrew, I waited as long as I reasonably could. I thought you were a good person who just did an extremely shitty thing. I had hoped that you would take the path of redemption/responsibility, but nope. Your actions show that at the end of the day, in reality, when the mask is off, you're just another manipulative scumbag. Just like every other parasite out there. And I see despite your "apology", you're already starting your show up again as though nothing happened eh? Try not to harass or touch this co-host alright there Harvey Weinstein? Or did you cross that line already too? Oh wait, you'd probably just claim drunken amnesia anyway. Nevermind. Moving along- since I paid for your show (until today) I've more than earned the right to say all this and more so: I'm done with you! Go fuck yourself with a cactus turned sideways you pathetic fucking loser! You're a useless fucking hypocrite and nothing more! You're not a fucking victim pus-for-brains! You created victims! You pearl clutched over Trump's treatment of women for years when the reality is, you two are cut from the exact same goddamn cloth! And you blocked Thomas from his meal ticket because why? Oh boo-hoo he exposed you for being the vile cancer to society that you turned out to really be!? Alright then Matt Lauer! Because of all the abhorrent ways you have chosen to handle this, I'm canceling my membership to your show and giving TRIPLE to SIO or DOD. A precious "little" cinnamon bun like you should more than understand the importance of someone's meal ticket. But I guess not. That would require integrity. That would require you to sincerely give a shit about what you did. And because you obviously have no integrity, you've now gone from some 3,700 paying members down to about 1,900 and still dropping. Lmfao! Good!!! You deserve to watch your show crumble into dust for how you've acted. You claim to be a skeptic, a progressive, and a critical thinker, and yet you never thought you had a problem until now?? Never thought you were doing something wrong? Somehow thought the intellectual move is to start the show right back up?? Fuck off! Fuck all the way off and suck a bag of dicks while you're at it! Your words are beyond hollow. You weren't anybody before Thomas made you what you were in this community. Now you can go back to being and irrelevant nobody again. You've now proven to us that you're not even worthy enough to pick out and eat the corn from our shit, let alone be worthy of forgiveness. All you are now is living proof the abortion should always be an option! Fuck you Andrew Torrez! Fuck you for what you did to your victims! Fuck you for betraying women as a whole! Fuck you for minimizing your actions! Fuck you for betraying the atheist/humanist community! Fuck you for betraying your family and friends! Fuck you for every single listener you hurt with your bullshit! FUCK YOU! Enjoy your now embarrassing shell of a show with whatever obviously toxic, misogynistic, and brainwashed audience you end up left with. All us decent human beings are gone! 🖕🖕 Oh, and Liz Dye- FYI for what it's worth, you are beyond a disgusting and worthless excuse for a woman!! You are also 100% a traitor to all females everywhere for sticking by this repugnant pig of a man!! You know it, and I know it. Soon the whole community will know it too. Your parents should be ashamed of the spineless worm they raised you to be!!
Tim Niemiec
2023-02-10 16:54:54 +0000 UTCNothing snap about it, it's not about the initial allegations. It's what he's done after the story came out that made my decision to leave at the end of the month.
Galaar
2023-02-10 16:47:49 +0000 UTCWelp, I'm out.
Madelyn Jirasek
2023-02-10 15:56:20 +0000 UTCI've been following this show since Hilary Clinton's damn emails but I think today's the day I pull my support. I believe everyone can be forgiven and has the opportunity to change. Andrew, I wish you the best in your recovery and that you and Thomas can reconcile. You two together is what made the show so special. But coming back one week later with a new intro song diving right into the news without Thomas leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Your last apology recording rings hollow to me. I don't know what stepping away and taking inventory of your life is supposed to look like for everyone, but this ain't it. Peace ✌️
James Linscheid
2023-02-10 15:55:13 +0000 UTCOA should probably update their Patreon banner...
Gordito1981
2023-02-10 15:17:57 +0000 UTCThis is not what 'stepping away' and working on making amends looks like. Rather, this is 'business as usual'. I'd much rather see the entire podcast go dark for several months while Andrew deals with his personal issues. What I just started listening to isn't worth my Patreon. I don't need to pay money to listen to a guy pretend everything is OK.
Pete Grimes
2023-02-10 14:52:15 +0000 UTCDid the title strike anyone else as passive aggressive?
Mike Lilley
2023-02-10 14:46:00 +0000 UTCThanks for continuing! One of my very favorite podcasts!
Nancy Anderson
2023-02-10 14:33:39 +0000 UTChttps://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1jIFbWDxgY0ZyIB899GHeu_BjGRV7llCZ There is quite a lot of information and documentation that can be found at the above link.
Crazy Animal Lady
2023-02-10 14:24:56 +0000 UTChttps://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1jIFbWDxgY0ZyIB899GHeu_BjGRV7llCZ In the interest of transparency, this link contains info on the misconduct allegations against Andrew that Liz Dye was referring to.
Crazy Animal Lady
2023-02-10 14:22:02 +0000 UTCYeah. Nope. Andrew this ain’t it. I thought maybe I was mistaken when I saw the new episode. Thought it was previously recorded or something. I’m stunned you would release this.
Lisa Carrera
2023-02-10 14:07:47 +0000 UTCOr at least pledge your share (whatever it comes out to be) of OA profit to the organization.
Christine M
2023-02-10 13:13:39 +0000 UTCOA has been my favorite podcast for a long time. Glad you will keep it running. Looking forward to more episodes.
The Show Goes On
2023-02-10 12:50:25 +0000 UTCI'm thrilled Andrew is back. He apologized, he will work on it, that's enough for me. Also - Thomas no longer interrupting Andrew with some useless inanity is a refreshing change of pace.
Matt Leyden
2023-02-10 12:49:32 +0000 UTCDude seriously? I was keeping OA active here to show support and hope you were actually doing something productive but def should have known better. You have also helped Liz lose her pretty rad reputation.. and I say helped because it takes 2 to tango. Both of you are fucking idiots. You have no idea how much of a toll this is taking on the community. Some people use this to escape their traumas and find comfort in justice and law. Seeing how a sexual assault from 10 years ago resurfaced a year ago.... How the fuck do you think I or others in my situation are doing knowing the person who fed us justice is a fucking monster/predator/jack ass? ITS NOT FUCKING GREAT ANDREW, LET ME TELL YOU THAT. I was pissed at first that AG dropped you so fast but it makes sense now. You aren't taking any responsibility for your actions which in turn makes you a really shitty lawyer and so-called "human".
Savanaugh Wilson
2023-02-10 11:52:00 +0000 UTCAndrew is out here finding new ways to keep letting me down It’s barely been a week since everything broke, and his actions POST scandal have done more to damage my view of his character than I had thought possible Who are you, even? I hope the person I thought existed comes back one day I’m out ✌️
IS SHE TALKING ABOUT ME
2023-02-10 11:45:13 +0000 UTCThe focus of this podcast has always been calm and measured responses to current events, waiting on official court documents before fully reacting. I’m disappointed that so many are making snap judgments based on incomplete information. I don’t feel like I know enough to be anything but disappointed for what we’ve lost.
Shawn Patrick
2023-02-10 11:43:39 +0000 UTCHow/Why do you know how I felt listening to QA688?
PeterinKorea
2023-02-10 11:43:12 +0000 UTCI don't have the time to read much, but I would certainly like listen to the take of a couple of other people, Aaron, Eli and Lindsey would be great. I listened to Andrew on OA, Noah on Scathing and Thomas on SIO . As for this OA688, I tried to listen and made it halfway through. I think I am fairly good in compartmentalizing and separating the artist from their work, but this just isn't for me. If nothing of this would have happened and Thomas would have just left the show in good terms, I think I also would have stopped listening . I guess was never here for the law in the first place, but only for the entertainment. I just don't feel entertained by this episode. Don't get me wrong, I am much more sympathetic with anyone, who is angry and disappointed with Andrew than with the other side. My heart goes out to anyone who got harmed by all this.
PeterinKorea
2023-02-10 11:41:36 +0000 UTCI tend to agree. I'm here for the content, and while I'm not happy about the stuff that came out, I am not here to be friends with the hosts. Art is not the artist, and the product is not the creator. I can listen to Wagner, read Harry Potter, and read Letter from a Birmingham jail. Sometimes the creator turns me of the product, so I appreciate that it's a natural reaction. It's just different for each person what triggers us.
Søren Kongstad
2023-02-10 11:38:10 +0000 UTCThis episode should have been hosted by someone else who wasn’t “stepping away for now.” It’s like watching a tap dance, except the floor is made of integrity and the audience paid for the shoes.
Rawls’s OG Position
2023-02-10 11:00:01 +0000 UTCFucking despicable, Andrew. Goodbye 🖕
Richard Branson
2023-02-10 10:33:04 +0000 UTCI am speechless. I have wanted to give every benefit of the doubt, but this is too soon. This is too soon to be releasing a paid episode, too soon have resolved any joint ownerhiip status with thomas, and too soon for your own attempt at reconciliation/restoration to be taken seriously.
el que es causa de la causa es causa del mal causado
2023-02-10 10:30:55 +0000 UTCWell. Perhaps this should have been titled 'the purloined podcast'? Whatever else we may or may not know we DO know that this property is joint owned. After the non-apology apology and now this I am yanking my support for the foreseeable future.
Tom Pegg
2023-02-10 10:02:02 +0000 UTCI’m absolutely gutted. Until recently I had thought that, at some point in the future, Andrew could be rehabilitated as part of the community after a full-throated apology and reckoning. Now it seems that he’s reverted to litigator mode and is just interested in making statements that get him what he wants. I don’t think I’ve been as disappointed in anyone since George Galloway asked if he should be the cat.
Demand a UK general election and stop this madness now!
2023-02-10 09:08:49 +0000 UTCThere's...a bit more to it than that.
Shrooom!
2023-02-10 07:59:13 +0000 UTCConsequences rarely come this quickly. Even if no criminal charges result, Thomas and Andrew will be going to court over the company, and I suspect the judge will take a dim view of Andrew's hostile takeover.
Shrooom!
2023-02-10 07:56:34 +0000 UTCFor certain values of interesting.
Chris Conley
2023-02-10 07:39:07 +0000 UTCWow, you barely took a week off. And "immersed" yourself in an alcohol treatment program for, what, maybe three days? Lol, fuck no. And the irony of the theme of this garbage episode... You continue to dissappoint. Bye, bitch.
creepy thieves r the worst
2023-02-10 07:29:19 +0000 UTCI was so relieved to hear that they did that this morning. That's what it looks like to really try to do better
William Evan Barnes
2023-02-10 06:16:27 +0000 UTCHere’s a thought. The Piat crew have put $10,000 into the new creator accountability organisation. Match it, Andrew.
Joannasephine
2023-02-10 06:14:57 +0000 UTCAn episode about a white man acting shitty in the wake of a sexual misconduct case against him? Really? Elon Musk tanked tesla stock as fast as you're tanking OA's listener count at this point. You're making his business acumen look good rn. I'm actually curious now, may run the numbers on this when the dust settles.
Cassidy Rogers
2023-02-10 06:10:47 +0000 UTCDamn dude really thought better of you, especially given what youve stood for. Hate to stop being a patron but I’ve got to pull the plug until you show some real signs of recovery.
Pizza School the Corgi says Imagine a cute corgi (me). Now imagine that corgi (me again) in a backpack. All this and more on ins
2023-02-10 06:07:07 +0000 UTCLess than a week. Apology Monday night, new episode, compete w research, new audio, and editing- plus time to record- posted Thursday night. At *longest* he waited a day to start working on this. Realistically, he posted the apology and locked Thomas out Monday night, went to b bed, started working on this Tuesday morning. Bc his promises of treatment and internal work were always bullshit, apparently.
Cassidy Rogers
2023-02-10 06:02:35 +0000 UTCI’m debating staying subbed to make him read it.
My imaginary friend Omad Kcin.
2023-02-10 05:51:18 +0000 UTCLove the name
NSaneAtheist
2023-02-10 05:46:34 +0000 UTChttps://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1jIFbWDxgY0ZyIB899GHeu_BjGRV7llCZ here's all the information that is available
Crazy Animal Lady
2023-02-10 05:39:54 +0000 UTCI’m now more disappointed than I was before.
My imaginary friend Omad Kcin.
2023-02-10 05:28:14 +0000 UTCI stuck around to see how it would shake out. I guess it only takes a week to take stock of you personal actions, reflect on the harm you’ve caused an entire community, and sought the deep immersive treatment you claimed to have needed. You absolute sack of shit.
Blaseking
2023-02-10 05:21:50 +0000 UTCI tend to disagree with the majority of the comments on this episode. I’m here for legal / political news and analysis, and don’t need to be involved in the hosts’ personal shit. Pursuing romantic / sexual relationships via text message with persistence is not cool, and Andrew should have stopped after the first ‘not interested’. That said, it’s doesn’t rise to the level of a cancellable offense in my book. I don’t want to diminish any of the people who were made to feel uncomfortable or pressured. It is a shame that they were made to feel that way, and they are right to share their stories publicly. It is now up to each listener to decide for themselves whether they want to continue supporting OA or not. For now, I plan to continue listening and supporting the show and will continuously reevaluate this decision as new information becomes available.
Uncle Frank's Nephew
2023-02-10 05:18:37 +0000 UTCWilliam, I agree with everything you've said. I also want to add a comment to your statement "your [Andrew's] blanket denial that you [he] touched Thomas isn't super convincing when the two main effects of alcohol are removing inhibitions and preventing memory formation". My comment is that we should all remember that Thomas has contemporaneous notes, in the form of the text messages he sent to his wife at the time the incident with Andrew occurred. And we all know—because we learned from Andrew—that contemporaneous notes are admissible as evidence in a court of law. So, if Thomas files suit against Andrew (for either sexual harassment or assault, or retaliation, or both), it is Andrew's memory-altered word against not only Thomas' word, but ALSO Thomas' evidence. Of course, I need to offer the disclaimer that IANAL, and any chance Thomas has at succeeding in a lawsuit against Andrew depends a LOT (and possibly, wholly) on the terms of the contract they signed with each other when they formed Opening Arguments Media, LLC.
Jenn H
2023-02-10 05:15:03 +0000 UTCAndrew you actually need to make amends. I love this show, but releasing this episode while gently eliding over everything else, and doing so so soon, is not the way.
Listener
2023-02-10 05:09:45 +0000 UTCI am thrilled to see Andrew back. Him continuing with the podcast guarantees my continued support for the show.
Zoe the pug puppy’s best friend
2023-02-10 05:08:31 +0000 UTCMan, even Anthony Weiner knew to step away from the position of power while he got "treatment". So what's your Carlos Danger name going to be?
Alexander Thomas
2023-02-10 05:02:56 +0000 UTCWow. I guess a week is all it takes to “take personal inventory.” You’re a real sack of shit, Andrew.
AJ
2023-02-10 04:49:48 +0000 UTCHey Andrew, I’ve been a listener for 4 years and when I heard the news, it was disappointing, to say the least. I’m not commenting just to give you, or Thomas shit. I think you both are going to go through enough shit for next few months without my input. I really love the show and I will keep listening whenever you decide to comeback. I do believe you were the major asset in the show, I think that’s undeniable. But I believe coming back on the show so quickly before the dust settles will only make you look as if you’re trying to ignore the major issue that it’s on the mind of 70% of your listeners (your most faithful listeners) and you’re just going to receive a rightful backlash. Be patient. Those of us who have listened to you for the past few years, will be here whenever you’re ready. I really wish you and your family the best, I hope that these mistakes will put you on the right path to deal with your issues. No one posting here is without sin. We all make mistakes.
Frank Diaz
2023-02-10 04:48:06 +0000 UTCLot’s of folks in the replies have said Thomas couldn’t do this with out Andrew. This new episode shows that inverse is very much true. Hate that this amazing has been ruined. And ruined by yet another cis white man in power taking advantage of that power and suffering no real consequences. (Some unintentional humor that you chose to post an episode about a white man in power being an asshole to an accuser, but based on the funny vacuum in this episode, i am sure it was completely unintentional.) The only positive outcome of this the community pulling together to find a way to hold these assholes accountable.
Blank Blankman
2023-02-10 04:43:32 +0000 UTCYeah . . . no. Your new intro, much like your approach to this situation, is hot garbage. Of all the people to turn out to be a cowardly asshole I didn't think it would be you. You don't deserve OA. Go away, figure your shit out, and once you can actually take responsibility for your actions and not light other people's lives on fire then think about coming back.
Schrödinger's law podcast has yet to be observed
2023-02-10 04:42:43 +0000 UTCI agree, William. I listened to this morning's Scathing Atheist today. Noah cold opens with an apology and link to a website: http://creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org which the Puzzle in a Thunderstorm crew helped newly create. It's brand new, but basically the idea is a group of fans and other third parties who could independently investigate SH/SA allegations without being financially or professionally beholden to the podcasters, public figures, whomever the network is investigating. PiaT gave a showing of goodwill along with an apology for not having been better. It doesn't erase the harm which is already done, but it hopes to help prevent future victims as well as promote a culture of accountability. We'll see how that goes. I expected a cold open on this OA episode. I hoped for Andrew maybe saying something about steps he's taken to help heal the harms which originates from Andrew. I recognize that Liz is not responsible for any of Andrew's actions, and I think that she is a good legal voice right now. I think that Andrew was an important voice in legal news. Maybe he even could be again if he were to stop and take some serious self-inventory and then show up to do better much later. Nevertheless, I cannot continue supporting OA. I'll pledge to the creator accountability network instead. Legal news is important, but there are other sources. Legal AF, MeidasTouch, and Talking Feds are a few I like. Cleanup on Aisle 45 is about to gain Pete Strzok.
Peter Kyrouac
2023-02-10 04:42:17 +0000 UTCThe absolute hubris of doing this episode about a lawsuit involving a sexual misconduct allegation... Just when I thought I couldn't gonna be any more grossed out, wow.
Blue Gemini
2023-02-10 04:39:28 +0000 UTCYikes. This ain’t it fam
Jack Baumruk
2023-02-10 04:30:55 +0000 UTCAndrew, put things on hiatus and get yourself some help and then make business and future decisions when your head is clear. You’d never tell a client to tweet through it. You shouldn’t be podcasting through this. You may be very sure you are seeing this situation clearly, but you almost certainly are not. As a $2 patron since Stormy Daniels is a legal genius, skipping only a handful of episodes, usually very bad news ones, thank you for the years of quality content. It was more than worth my patronage. I learned so much. I laughed and even occasionally cried. I sent so many friends episodes or told them about their contents. Truly thank you and all involved for that. But my ride ends here. Please get some help. Please don’t screw your partners.
Matthew McNulty
2023-02-10 04:30:55 +0000 UTCI agree with most of this and just wanted to add my own thoughts. I've been trying to give you as much benefit of the doubt as I can, Andrew, but ..... this feels so wrong. After all that's happened, you can't just slap new intro music on, mix in some new intro quotes, re-record the iconic "don't take legal advice from a podcast" and then start anew with "Thank you so much, Liz. So with that in mind, what's our first story today?" I get that you have been accused of some awful things. I get that you and Thomas, and your fans, and other people, had a falling out. I get that there are different sides to every story and that you probably have grievances of your own that haven't been aired. I get that this whole business is ugly and sordid on so many levels and that maybe some things that have happened haven't been fair to you. But to just try and slog on without any explanation despite virtually no listeners being ready for it, most vocal listeners being opposed to you and objecting to what you've said so far, and the rest wanting to wait and see before deciding... It's such a bad call. I don't feel like you're acknowledging the reality of the situation. It feels like resurrecting a corpse.
Dr_Emil_Schaffhousen
2023-02-10 04:30:40 +0000 UTCfucking hell...
CutePhoton
2023-02-10 04:28:38 +0000 UTCYo this episode just disappeared from my podcast app feed just like the other “missing” audio. Let’s see if it stays up or not Edit: if the intro is what the new editing style will be, this is unlistenable. Yikes
MechaClover
2023-02-10 04:18:59 +0000 UTChttps://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1jIFbWDxgY0ZyIB899GHeu_BjGRV7llCZ
Crazy Animal Lady
2023-02-10 04:18:45 +0000 UTCThis is "fully immersing" yourself in an alcohol treatment program? Yeah, okay, your actions speak louder than your words. We're done here.
Erik A
2023-02-10 04:13:42 +0000 UTCPretty sure we already know
Dean
2023-02-10 04:12:30 +0000 UTCI hope Andrew and Thomas manage to make amends. I miss their dynamic already.
kalsuri
2023-02-10 04:11:47 +0000 UTCDefinitely scraped the rear on take off. Ooof, asking a lot OA.
lf
2023-02-10 04:10:17 +0000 UTCIs this parody?
Renee Z
2023-02-10 04:10:00 +0000 UTCSo after all this time, we finally know. The "P" stands for Pyrrhic.
Dusty Lee
2023-02-10 04:06:36 +0000 UTCDude what? I think you might need to chill on posting episodes for a bit man. Really don't think you can just go back to normal after all this. Andrew, I have been so disappointed by these revelations. It was heartbreaking because I expect most men to be kind of shit, but looked up to you as one of the good ones. I and others are furious with you because you held a role of trust and respect that we all believed you deserved, and you violated that trust to harm others. This is a community where I expected better from all the men in it, but especially from you, someone who genuinely does seem to want to champion causes of social justice. I am also keeping in mind the truly tremendous amounts of good you have done, including with this podcast and for Modest Needs. But that doesn't erase the harm you did to those women, and apparently also to Thomas. And by the way man, you should absolutely be aware that alcohol is an amnestic drug, so your blanket denial that you touched Thomas isn't super convincing when the two main effects of alcohol are removing inhibitions and preventing memory formation. But that's beside the point. The point is that you have done a lot of good and share a lot of good values, but that you deeply violated those values and caused real harm. You can't just jump back into making OA like it's all in the past and we've moved on. At the very least, you're going to filter your audience down to the people who don't care as much as most of us about the harm you did, and I don't think you want to be left with the few Republicans who inexplicably listen to the show. I genuinely think there may be a path forward in which you can come back into this world and community and do this work again, but it's a long slow path of hard work, seeking forgiveness and redemption. This just feels gross, and I think forging ahead like this just further closes down your option of ever coming back in a good way. I'll miss your work deeply. Your explanations of the law helped me feel like sane, smart, good people were still fighting for the social good in this fucked up world. You filled a vital role that nobody had filled before. But you ejected yourself from that role with your own behavior, and it's not a role that you can just step back into. Take a break. Figure your fucking shit out. Come back in a few months or years, I don't know. Now isn't the time.
William Evan Barnes
2023-02-10 04:06:33 +0000 UTCThe all caps for MINE is an … interesting choice.
Joannasephine
2023-02-10 04:06:11 +0000 UTCARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME ANDREW!???
NSaneAtheist
2023-02-10 04:05:27 +0000 UTCWow. Ok. Not sure how I feel about this.
Joannasephine
2023-02-10 04:04:20 +0000 UTCI guess we’ll know from the audio quality whether Thomas is involved 🤔
MechaClover
2023-02-10 04:01:11 +0000 UTCNo one pay attention! All is well (🔥🔥💣💣💥💥🧨
Checkout DSmagic.us and DeepFakeStop.com
2023-02-10 03:58:52 +0000 UTCOkay, so we're doing this? Interesting...
the character limit is too small for my international shoe joke
2023-02-10 03:57:49 +0000 UTCGive the keys to Thomas, Andrew
Checkout DSmagic.us and DeepFakeStop.com
2023-02-10 03:57:09 +0000 UTC
