Chapter 343: Royal Decree

I know, but it had to be done to show how little they regard women. To them, women are no better than furniture—mere objects to be used. If reading this upsets you, know that you’re a good person, and it pained me to write it!

PriÀm

I get that this society sucks to the nth degree but it's just gross to read them talking about giving a twelve year old breast implants and raping her.

Geekdumb

I can claim any definition of any word I want to back up my own point as well, but that doesn’t make it true. You cherry pick examples of the contrary, but I can do that as well. Iran was an incredibly prosperous country before it fell into fundamentalism. The Islamic empire under Mohammad was significantly more and progressive than its contemporary society. Incredibly prosperous empire. The Greek empire, and the Roman empire, incredibly prosperous and progressive for their times. The American empire was incredibly progressive. There’s an argument to be made that women’s rights in Japan only exist because of MacArthur. The truth is when 100% of your working age workforce can be used for their labor and are motivated to accomplish their goals. You have a more productive and better society. Therefore a society at the peak! The author is French and the French practiced one of the most brutal forms of slavery on earth. The French Empire was at its peak during the colonial period, but nobody would argue that the French people were more prosperous during that time than they are now. If the argument is the systems interpretation is flawed of what it means to be at its peaks it’s one thing. But you and your cohort are arguing for the efficacy of slavery and not only is that an asinine argument for its economic merits. It is morally reprehensible.

Ray Johnson

Even then, without magic slavery and oppression make sense in a wode range of concepts and societies. We are not fated for a better world, we have to build it. And I think Esmee, be it through her success or sacrifice, will construct a step along the path for a better world for all Empyrean. Fiction is a reflection of reality, be it our perception of it, our understanding, or our subconscious feelings and knowledge about it. I think Priam has done a good job at showing us a disgusting society, so I hope the payoff is as satisfying.

General

All civilisations bleed into each other, they are still civilisations. That is a distinction without a difference. And no, the USSR under stalin was not particularly progressive, that is given to the USSR under Lenin. After Lenin, Stalin rolled back women's rights. The British Empire at its peak was not particularly progressive when it came to women's rights compared to prior and latter periods in its history. The US today is more prosperous and powerful than ever before, yet women have less rights than they did in the late 90s and early 2000s, a generation ago. Saudi Arabia actually had a more progressive past too, and yet it is far more prosperous today when there are less human rights overall. Giving rights is only so good for the economy. Eventually, the population does not grow fast enough as women enter the workforce and have personal ambitions, which result in pushing off pregnancy. Countries have historically intentionally pushed sexist policies and view to pump out more babies. Economic pogress is irrelevant without people to do the work, you either have to increase your migrant population, and barring that like in the USSR, you must implement sexist policies to increase the birth rate. China as well is currently in its most socially backwards it has been in 20 years thanks to Xi, and Russia is more backwards socially today than it was under the USSR. There are arguments to be made that, while Russia is less of a hegemon, it is still more prosperous today in various ways, depending on how you define prosperous. China is definitely more prosperous than it was 20 years ago. China is also looking to boost its population a little given the damage the one child policy caused to long-term population growth, leading to a disproportionately ageing population which they know in the long term will drag down the economy. Again, we are not destined for a better world. Black people had more rights in the 1890s than in the 1960s, it took generations of struggle and sacrifice to build what is around today. Slavery did not end in the US in 1865, it ended in 1942, the myth that slavery is somehow not economically appealing is just that, a myth, that the founders of the US velieved and used to justify owning slaves because they thought it would happen naturally. Surprise, it didn't, a war had to happen to begin the process of ending slavery, and a second war had to happen (WW2) for the US to actually end slavery... except it did not. The US has an exception for slavery, called prison labor. Coincidentally, did you know that the US is the country with most prisoners in the world by far? About 20% of the world's prisoners, more than or about the same as China and India, combined. Just a coincidence, nothing to see here. Also, according to you, the only discreet civilisations are the pre-European American nations, Aboriginal Australians, and today perhaps the sentinel island residents and the rest of the world. A civilisation, as agreed upon by scholarly consensus, is defined as: A complex human society characterized by urban development, social stratification, a centralized government, complex economic systems, and cultural or technological advancements. All societies I mentioned qualify as distinct civilisations under this definition, I will not take your word for what civilisation means.

General

You’re completely wrong for the simple fact that those are not discreet civilizations… your argument would hold water if they were, but they are not. You can call them different chapters in the human civilization, but each one of those civilizations blend into the next and into the next. But also in context, your argument doesn’t make sense because many of the CHAPTERS the you cited WERE relatively progressive for their time. Nobody in their right mind would argue that we don’t live in the most prosperous time in human history. And that is a result of expanding the workforce and unlocking the intellectual labor of women and minorities. When you allow people the ability to pursue intellectual pursuits and give them safety and security, who would’ve thought that they become better producers and consumers. At the end of the day this is not about what is right or wrong but rather what makes us strong and healthy civilization. And for a civilization to prosper you need maximum contribution of every citizen in both a production and a consumer capacity!

Ray Johnson

If you if you think that some of these comments aren’t proslavery, you’re clearly blind and and support the structures that I’m talking about. These comments are clearly pro slavery we’ve seen throughout our own history. Slavery is not an economically viable tool for progress of a society. Literally in the next chapter, this very notion is addressed by one of the characters. To try to glorify slavery as some type of ingenious economic method is not only idiotic IT IS SUPPORT OF THE SYSTEM ITSELF.

Ray Johnson

keep dreaming XD, they will need a bloody revolution first.

bobby2dreki

Wait, you first write it in french before translating it all? Bhen du coup je go tester comment ça lit en français, tellement l'habitude de l'anglais mnt que je suis pas sur si je vais apprécier.

bobby2dreki

Nah, it is quite easy to turn a man into a woman today, not exceedingly illogical to expect societies to do what we can see them doing. Example: Iran. Being gay is illegal, and women are extremely oppressed in all aspects of life. Yet, trans people are legal. Fun fact: gay marriage is illegal, so a lot of gay people in Iran decide to medically transition, to be legally allowed to marry their spouse, and the government allows this because it upholds the status quo. As long as the trans person looks and acts like Iranian women are supposed to... the repressive government there does not care. If we can see this happening today with our own two eyes, I cannot see how this is illogical in a fictional story. It is just what dictatorships do, they create 'illogical' societies in the image of their dictators, which still have their own form of logic, even if it is not the logic we would want to work by. Since this is a rather extraordinary fact, here are some sources you should give a read, though by no means should you limit yourself to this reading, it is more a "this exists" sources, instead of a "this is a profound analysis that answers all questions", so do dig in further:https://www.us-iran.org/resources/2021/7/15/homosexuality-gender-assignment-in-iran https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690.amp

General

Saudi Arabia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and right now it is at its strongets ppint in the entire history of the kingdom, the tribes that preceeded it, and the empires and nations that preceeded that, in both a technological and military level. No reason why that cannot be the case for this kingdom. The Soviet Union under Stalin reached the peaknof Russian power in all pf its history, yet the gains made during the Russian revolution for women's and lgbt+ rights were lost and pushed back intentionally by him. While women's and lgbt+ rights were probably marginally better than under Tsarism, they were worse than before Stalin took over and transformed the USSR into a proper empire. Abolishing women's rights is useful when you want to rebuild your population from a series of destructive policies and wars that dwindled your population, and when you want to mass produce workers to put your economy in overdrive to compete with other nations. This is the rationale as to why the Soviet Union despite its isolation and limited resources managed to push above its weight and, briefly, give the west a run for its money on a number of fronts. China. India. The British Empire. I could go on. There are countless examples, current and historic, of human societies reaching their "peak" according to the system's definition, while still barely having any women's rights, actively regressing women's rights, or undermining them in other societies, or remaining stagnant. Your argument is completely wrong and idealistic, it is based on a 2 dimensional view of the world. There ARE benefits to ignoring ethics, exploiting people and their rights. Typically it is not sustainable, though for some societies it was for centuries. It is a tough reality to face, that we are not fated to have a brighter and better society because power will be granted to us by doing the right thing. We gotta work for it, or it could be lost forever. It is daunting, but it is the truth.

General

Your comments are so purposefully obtuse and offbase they read like a chatgpt response. Not a single one of these comments has been pro slavery. Also, you're purposefully completely missing the very important specifics of the Empyrian's geas that render 95% of what you're saying irrelevant. Empyrian women are bound totally by the geas and, from what I'm seeing, a great many are explicitly used for their intellectual labor even if they're viewed as inferior. The geas, from what I'm seeing, allows women to operate as productive 2nd class citizens who are forced them to contribute. It is still 100% a terrible society and would be improved if women were not enslaved by the geas. Also I'm not sure how you're bothered by this being the peak of their society. It's perfectly possible for the geas to have been enacted, the society then reach further peaks even if they're effectively prevented from their full potential due to the geas.

Mathrian

Their kings seem to rule like pharaohs, so maybe their first king to unify their people had this philosophy and made it the mandatory teaching and practice of his race. Then a thousandish years later nobody questions it.

Zaim İpek

Do you have some weird social justice fetish where you get off on inventing problematic scenarios and then getting mad at your own imagination? Congratulations, you’re one of the dipshits who have used nazi to the point of obsolescence, which makes the accusation carry much less weight. It’s especially frustrating when Nazism seems increasingly relevant in the modern world but now is a weak identifier due to mouth breathing fucks like yourself.

James Faulkner

It is exceedingly illogical although fitting with such a hypocritical societal model. If any man can be a woman, and any woman can be a man, all through a simple ritual, why would one have more value than the other?

jayu

“ but Officer it was fantasy” I can hear you breathing heavy as you type this. Go outside and touch some grass neck beard.

Ray Johnson

God you’re a dumbass. Trying to draw parallels between slavery as it exists today and slavery in a universe where geas magic exists and fundamentally changes the viability of slavery is pointless. A geas could essentially turn someone into an automaton except one that can level up and have their build forcibly crafted into an idealized machine for productivity. Get off your high horse and remember this is fantasy before you start moralizing.

James Faulkner

Yeah really liked that priam started learning more about aether during the tribulations always felt that was what priam would get the most out of doing and excel at that and learning about his eye curse and bloodlines.

John

I prefer to let the book speak for itself, as I find it more interesting as an author to provide facts and let the reader draw conclusions. Nevertheless, let me clarify a few points: These so-called taboo rituals come right after a chapter where we saw that empyrean mages are capable of performing together to cast complex rituals. The taboo rituals fall into this category and cannot be used by a single person (at least not by a Tier 0). The king being less skilled than Esmée and not having passed the Impossible Tutorial, he is not on Elysium (and doesn't want to go there until his survival is assured). Furthermore, these taboo rituals are the equivalent of a nuclear bomb. Other civilizations (Hoplites and Var Elegis first and foremost) are capable of razing half a continent with atomic weapons. But why push the button? They want to win this planet; vitrifying its surface is not a viable solution to make it their headquarters. For the rest, it is obvious that Priam will change his approach. His learning of aether with Wang Lin is a first step in this direction. I won't say more, but we agree: a character must grow throughout the book. Same for Jasmine, by the way ;)

PriÀm

Sure. I'll post it in pdf

PriÀm

Can I just get a French version of the next chapter?

Julia Niles

So with the rank of royalty. I hope that is to all genders because esmee could get a high rank to become leader.

IdolTrust

Imagine what would be possible if every single human on earth had access to proper education and nutrition. I think the pace of tech technological innovation we see now would be dwarfed. The fact of the matter is a healthy happy population with external stressors is gonna produce way more than enslaved population with internal stressors

Ray Johnson

Well, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I find it very difficult to believe that throughout their entire history THIS is the period where they are the strongest. Nobody in their right mind would say our civilization was the strongest under slavery times. Despite the achievements of an ancient Rome and ancient Egypt, we far surpassed what those civilizations accomplished. That is the benefit of unlocking intellectual labor of every human.

Ray Johnson

Despite all the pro slavery comments. It doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re talking about economic viability, but the reason we as a society have done so well is because a lot of our intellectual labor isn’t being gate kept behind forced servitude. It’s not a coincidence that technological innovation increased as more and more people had the ability and motive to pursue education.

Ray Johnson

Not the clarification to protect your ass. It’s OK buddy. You can come out and say what you really think about slavery.

Ray Johnson

Maybe the empyreans are at their prime potential in terms of people? I do mostly agree with what you said though. These guys were cooked from the get go

GreatCabbage

You also failed to consider that the king constantly monitor his immediate future . Esmeé has shown an incredible degree of prediction. He can quell all opposition through clever use of magic. You are also making the assumption that woman are part of the population for Empyrians. One could argue that slaves aren’t. They are treated worse than cattle.

Derze

John

To be explicitly clear though, I do think slavery is abhorrent and I think the form it takes in Esmée's civilization is a particularly insidious and evil one and I hope she, and her sisters, get the freedom and revenge they so deeply deserve.

Mathrian

Are you being serious right now? There has been nothing neonazi about any of these comments. Additionally, slavery is absolutely a viable economic tool depending upon various stages of technology, economy and amount/type of labor needs. While it is, in many ways far inferior to our current economic system, in eras where massive amounts of grueling & dangerous labor is needed to survive/prosper, it can be very beneficial, especially to public order, to use slaves for it, especially captured ones. Hell even now vast amounts of the industry the west relies on is performed by slaves or people so impoverished they might as well be. Regardless, the geas & it being on women negates the vast amount of fundamental issues with slavery. 1st. The geas completely negates their ability to revolt. Even Esmée, an unparalleled genius empowered by the system cannot break free of it & must use all of her might to indirectly engineer the deaths & misfortune upon the men in her life (who btw absolutely deserve far worse than death). 2nd, this oppression of women operates very similar to how women have been oppressed for centuries. These women, unfortunately, are additionally magically shackled to the point where they cannot fight back, cannot even truly consider killing their oppressor & can be magically forced to give their all, negating even the ability of passive rebellion. As a result, it is perfectly believable that this world could reach this point after the geas be created, and it be their greatest height if that oppressive aspect of society was completely unbreakable. Their civilization would definitely prosper and reach even greater heights than before if women weren't oppressed but that's irrelevant if circumstances have, until now, completely locked in that aspect of society.

Mathrian

Thanks for the chapter!

Custus

In general the chapter drives the point home that most Empyreans are misogynistic assholes. In my opinion Priams warning warranted because of implied stuff.

Dungeonborn

Didn’t realize the neo Nazis were in the comment section. Don’t you guys have minorities to harass? It’s absolutely absurd that you’re saying slavery is a viable economic tool. It is not. You know how I know that… look at the economic output of the United States while it had slaves versus post abolition. We are a significantly more productive country now than we were under slavery. And you’re talking about magic, but we do kind of have magic on earth. It’s technology.

Ray Johnson

Thats.. disgusting. Revenge better be swift and it better be merciless.

CipherFTW

Tftc!

James Faulkner

Priam needs to stay out of it as much as he can unless she is about to die. The potential long term benefit of the crazy powerful title she would get from freeing herself without ANY help would be massive. I could easily see that being a Seraphic title for a tier-0 to free themselves from this kind of geas that was implaned since birth. It would be an insanely OP merit tree as well that could make her immune to almost any kind of magical tampering with her mind and soul. She would probably also immediately get the qualifications for AT LEAST one ideal legendary resistance. It's best she does this on her own if possible just for the system rewards that are definitely waiting on the other side.

Zaim İpek

You are severely misunderstanding how this works. The society isn't working against itself. It's working extremely well. Slavery is an extremely powerful economic tool, and when magically enforced there is no need to waste time and manpower trying to keep any from escaping or disobeying. Their society governed by a single highly driven and capable ruler with a singular vision has every reason to grow extremely powerful and prosperous. They also need to spend less effort on law enforcement since half the population is incapable of defying royal decree. Any conflict in such a tightly controlled society would be extremely small in scale and impact compared to the things we see in most real Earth countries in the past 10 years. Your big mistake in trying to compare to Earth history is that WE DON'T HAVE MAGIC.

Zaim İpek

To the best of my knowledge, they care more about number of talents than strength of the civilization, Especially the state of the best talent in the civilization, which is Esmee. It could very well be the case that she would’ve died from trying to escape or something if the system hadnt come.

Renn

It makes a lot of sense that in their society the greatest punishment isn't death or conventional torture but instead being forcibly converted into a woman. Being turned into a worm is probably seen as a better alternative than becoming a woman.

Zaim İpek

Same here lol

Bladehawk256

This honestly doesn’t make any sense. I don’t find believable that a civilization with half its population actively working against itself could compete on an intergalactic level. It’s been stated that the system took each civilization from the prime of its timeline, so you’re telling me out of all the eons this civilization has persisted. It was the strongest when women were brutally oppressed. It doesn’t really make sense when we look at our own history.

Ray Johnson

Yeah, I understand it, but find it gets more annoying with each chapter. Priam/Esmée should do smth. Want her free

Crowny 66

Esmée really need to find a way to free herself

Lijwent

Thank you!

Andrew

Given the warning at the start, I think I'm just gonna wait for the next couple chapters to be out before even starting this haha

Sébastien Kingsbury