The Skeptics Guide #806 - Dec 19 2020 (Ad Free)
Added 2020-12-19 16:47:54 +0000 UTCCOVID-19 Update: Vaccine and Home Testing; News Items: Arecibo Telescope, AI Predicting Weather, Manipulated by Robots, Genetically Engineered Pigs, Asteroid Sample Return; Who's That Noisy; Your Questions and E-mails: Historicity of Jesus; Science or Fiction
Comments
Not that it has any bearing on the truth of falsity of Carrier's facts or arguments, but I think it is important to point out he has a problematic history of behavior at various skeptical events and conventions, which people should be aware of if they ever plan to deal with him in person. I could find very little about this online, just a paragraph in his Wikipedia article and this page [https://freethoughtblogs.com/babbler/2020/02/25/allegedly-the-conclusion-of-the-richard-carrier-saga-non-fiction/] about the final settlement of various SLAPP suits he filed. Since SGU has also been the victim of SLAPP suits, I thought you would be interested.
Buzz Parsec
2020-12-21 16:41:16 +0000 UTCI have never read his book, but I have seen his videos on YouTube. They are very well done, and easy to understand.
Ted Apelt
2020-12-21 03:18:06 +0000 UTCCarrier's book is a DENSE read, but it is absolutely excellent. Go Bayes' Theorem!
Jason Goertzen
2020-12-21 03:05:27 +0000 UTCThe time I started studying the historicity of Jesus and the validity of the Bible, both Old and New Testament, was 1984. In 1989 I was taking classes at a local community college and took a class of the Bible as literature. It took me less than an hour for me to go through the textbook and verify that there was nothing there that I did not already know. At class, I did not take notes, instead I did algebra homework, but I was listening just enough to pick up anything the professor might say that I didn’t already know. That never happened. I had a midterm test, essay questions. I did not study for it at all. Got an A+. Professor needed to see me after class. “Where did you get all that stuff?”, he wanted to know. He said that my test answers had things that were not in the textbook or anything he said or even knew about. He was convinced I was trying to snow him. He fact checked everything I said - all correct. Since 1989 I have done much more research. I participated in an online forum called “Debating Christianity and Religion” (or something like that) where I was “Question Everything”. I got bored with the forum and the subject many years ago because I felt there was nothing more to learn from it or say about it.
Ted Apelt
2020-12-20 23:06:33 +0000 UTCThat's why I was unhappy with the earlier show talking about Ehrman but not Carrier, who makes way more sense.
Ted Apelt
2020-12-20 23:01:26 +0000 UTCI looked into this several years ago. I started with the question, "Was there actually a census?" Turns out there was. The problem, as you pointed out, was it didn't occur until 10 years after the death of Herod the Great. So, he ordered the slaughter in Bethlehem from the grave. I delved into Bart Ehrman's "Did Jesus Exist?" (Spoiler alert: Yes) Absolute garbage. To me, his "proof" was composed of a lot of gross assumptions and a major Appeal to Authority. I do half wonder if he wrote it to appease the people who write his paycheck. The gospels eventually began to appear to me to be essentially just fanfiction that references actual events and places, much like Sherlock Holmes being based in London. IMHO the gospels are like you said, inspirational aspirations laced with the prevailing supernatural beliefs of the day. Unlike the Cult of Glycon, christianity was a successful cult.
Asymetra
2020-12-20 19:28:14 +0000 UTCSteve did a terrific analysis of the historicity of Jesus, complete with a look at Richard Carrier, who is my favorite expert on the subject. It is also worth pointing out that adding to Carrier's view is the sheer number of mistakes and contradictions in the Gospels. For example, the Sanhedrin would never meet on Passover Eve and the Romans would never crucify someone just because a group of subjugated people wanted them to. There never was a census in Judea when Herod was king, and people were never required to go anywhere when they had one, they were just simply counted where they lived. All of the Gospels, especially when compared with each other, are loaded with things that anyone who lived at the time would know is incorrect. This is why it is my conclusion that not only are the Gospels fiction, they were understood to be fiction. Jesus was a Superman type hero who you were supposed to imitate the best way you could.
Ted Apelt
2020-12-20 18:23:56 +0000 UTCWhen I lived on the Big Island in Hawaii, I didn’t have to look at a weather forecast for 3 years. It doesn’t matter what season it is, it only depends on elevation.
Rada
2020-12-19 17:22:36 +0000 UTC
