The Skeptics Guide #805 - Dec 12 2020 (Ad Free)
Added 2020-12-12 16:08:51 +0000 UTCCOVID-19 Update; News Items: Chuck Yeagar dies at 97, The Smellicopter, COVID Anti-Vaxxers, Are We Ready for Aliens; Who's That Noisy; Your Questions and E-mails: Protein Folding; Name That Logical Fallacy: More Slippery Slope; Science or Fiction
Comments
@Yonatan, You are right, libertarianism isn't anti-science and antivaxxer. The organization, which is both of those, overlaps with libertarianism solely in regard to pushing zero-gov't interference. (Like in a venn diagram.) Steve never said they were libertarian, he was referring to the view they take. This is why your strawman claim is not correct. (Same for your poison the well claim.) The anti-religion comes from the rejection of the supernatural (the byline of the show is "Your escape to reality"). Supernatural belief, .i.e. god, karma, or chi, is squarely at the heart of religion. The statist "bias" comes from the very thing you take a dim view of, gov't regulation. (You have an anti-statist bias, which is why you're defending libertarianism at all cost.) People want the gov't to protect them, not just from crime and foreign powers, but by ensuring that individuals/corporations don't sell fake "medicine" (snake oil) or dangerous medication (thalidomide), that doctors are licensed to perform medicine (anesthesiologist) and have the requisite training. Personally, I'm for this type of regulation. If people want to drink bleach, there's nothing stopping them. However, there are laws preventing doctors from prescribing or promoting drinking bleach. One would hope you're not against this type of regulation. Don't rely too heavily on throwing around logical fallacies. It's too easy to lob the wrong one, and a logical fallacy doesn't automatically mean the person is wrong.
Asymetra
2020-12-21 21:04:03 +0000 UTCI feel like you are putting way too much into his throw away line of "capital L Libertarian". Steve is obviously using the word to mean the idea of completely having no regulation from the government. He wasnt using it to mean a normal person who wants less regulation on things that dont kill people. I think you need to take a step back from your own bias and not take his comment for more than it was.
Joshua Luzania
2020-12-18 18:16:48 +0000 UTCThank you for the answer, Yonatan.
Ville Kuitunen
2020-12-14 16:01:39 +0000 UTCAgainst regulation especially in health care? Thalidomide
Jess Donovan
2020-12-14 01:28:51 +0000 UTC@asymetra - 1. I clearly stated why this organisation is in no way libertarian 2. That is a straw man because there is absolutely no connection between them supposedly libertarian world view and then being science denialers, antivaxxers, etc. They mention them being libertarian as a sort of political bashing on the way. I grew accustomed to the anti-religion and slight statist bias in this show. But this is the first time this was a true poison the well move - saying libertarian as if it's some sort of snakeoil paddeling related.
Yonatan Huber
2020-12-13 20:27:10 +0000 UTC@Ville, I can offer some insight as an ex-libertarian. The general idea that kept me going for a while was that without an alternative, the good nature of humanity will fill the gaps with charity. This is, largely, why I consider myself an ex-libertarian. I no longer have that level of faith in humanity :-).
Kyle Smith
2020-12-13 20:24:36 +0000 UTC@ville - health through voucher programs and charity work. especially for under 18s, to whom we have an expanded responsibility. I am not against healthcare, I am against freedom and choice limiting regulation.
Yonatan Huber
2020-12-13 20:24:06 +0000 UTCYou're loyalty to your ideology taints your view. Actually, they don't commit the strawman fallacy or even bash libertarianism. Their use of libertarian has to do with the organization wanting zero regulation of doctors and healthcare, which you, yourself, admit to also being against.
Asymetra
2020-12-13 17:55:40 +0000 UTCWhat is your solution to poor people's healthcare?
Ville Kuitunen
2020-12-13 16:36:17 +0000 UTCAs a staunch "extreme" libertarian, I feel the need to defend an Ideology that has been bashed on air without due. Yes. As a general tendency, libertarians are givernment-skeptic. I for instance am against most current regulatory systems, especially in healthcare. But as a group, all libertarians I know are the far opposite of the mentioned association. They are not libertarians (libertarians believe in at demand abortions, as part of personal physical sovereignity and basic right of freedom). They use freedom as an excuse to justify their crackpot ideas, and you fell into a strawman argument. Libertarianism is about freedom of choice, as absolute as possible, and about the non aggression principle. Libertarianism has nothing to do with sceince denial, antivaxxing (and yes, we do attract crakpots ourselves, every ideology does), and pronatal fanatiscism.
Yonatan Huber
2020-12-13 14:26:41 +0000 UTC
