The Watcher, The Self, The Shadow

I'm late... but I think Alice had already a fight with her shadowself in the first (middle) game when she finally defeated the Red Queen. I missed that fight from AMR. I like the metaphor, cause every human being have fights with theirselves sometimes but I more like the "enemies are metaphoring feelings" concept. Like Jabberwocky - guilt etc. (I never knew what Mad Hatter symbolized from Alice feelings.)

sumblinker

I absolutely love these games and to see such a deep design for the idea of having to fight past selves sounds great. In order to maintain balance i feel that it would be neat to see the world go sorta topsy turvy after you fight one half of the shadow figures. Makeing the rush to defeat the last shadow figure more prominate, makeing alice more determined to push on and get her bareings streight. It would be femominal to see this put to some use as it could create a neat background or even layers to the story itself as she realizes who she truely is.

Shadow selves and shadow work are concepts I'm vastly interested in. The chance to actually meet and converse with the rage and hysteria, and fight them only to realize that they are necessary parts of oneself.. Amazing. I imagine the fight as either one of Alice going "I need you, we need each other" or her being the one trying to reject them as "you are unproductive and hurtful, I will not allow you to cause anymore pain" I just love your brain.

Sarah Heist

Looking forward to this game!! But quick question. When am I gonna get the chaos pendant and art? Just curious :3 going on my 2nd month of being patron to this~ 🖤

I absolutely love the detail in this artpiece. It's gorgeous. I find that the art I love the most are artpieces in which, no matter how many times you see them, you discover something new in them. I have that with this one, as well as those he made of the Mad Hatter. Lovely work by Omri. Concerning confronting ones own shadow self, I recognise it very well. In a way though, I always assumed Alice faced (a portion of?) her shadow self in the first game. The Queen eventually turning into different faces, until eventually showing Alice herself, telling her that she would lose herself forever if she would continue onwards. Of course, one can face many shadow selves throughout his/her life.. I know I have. It has to start somewhere, so in this case.. The Asylum. All behind this idea, American. Looking forward to see and read more! Always loved the symbolism in the Alice games. ^.^

The problem is: this idea isn't for everyone. Most gamer \casual gamer need something else to fight for that's why this idea isn't "that" popular. They want to create a game for the mass and i see a big problem with an final boss like yourself. At the end they will do what they want (of course, it is their game) but how i said: fighting yourself already exist in some games but NEVER as an end-boss fight because the mass doesn't like the idea of that...(of course they just wanna get some idea off their chests and i just think of the main product at the end and what people (again, the mass not just a view) like \would like. ^_^ )

Jessi St.

I keep meaning to read up on Jung myself, so I can understand abit more about some things Peterson talks about. His psychology lectures are very interesting. He could have actually helped Alice !

Shadow Self huh ? ... sounds like Jordan Peterson has been brought on as a consultant ! (or maybe i've just watched too many of his videos).

Or a new game plus where you play as that alternative Alice?

Rob Burch

Oooohhhhhh..... the realization that the real enemy is her shadow self could turn the game inside out having to basically replay it in that upside down or inside out world, a la Castlevania symphony of the night. Or the inside out/upside down could be a transient state like the asylum version of rage/hysteria.

SCarey151

Love the idea. I believe it was Renfield from Bram Stoker's Dracula who said "I am no lunatic man. I'm A sane man fighting for his soul!" A few questions about the concept. And apologies if i had missed a previous explanation of the scenario. But, would Rage and Hysteria be separate physical entities or psychological? Would one be responsible for the house fire? Would both? Are they playing tug of war with Alice's psyche with Alice winning in sense with a pseudo self sacrifice that ultimately puts her in her coma? Just some thoughts on the matter.

Christian Cooper

It would be difficult to argue that, almost invariably, we are our own worst enemy, biggest critic, and cruelest bully. I think it would be great to somehow demonstrate that in Alice Asylum.

SCarey151

I cannot appreciate the detail as well as I'd like, but from what I can see, this is a phenomenal image.

SCarey151

I love the idea of Rage and Hysteria being separate entities within Alice and her recognition and reconciliation with them being a factor. I'm reminded of Susanna/ Detta/ Odetta from Stephen King's Dark Tower series, for reasons I won't go into, Dark Tower spoilers. Perhaps Shadow Alice could be reborn in her psyche as the Red Queen? What if one of them takes the role of the Queen of Hearts and the other as the Red Queen, and after they're defeated, what remains of them converges into the entity Alice faces in the first game...

Rob Burch

Now that's interesting. Or maybe something like Richenbach Falls, where both Alices fall into the darkness, but Alice slowly finds her way back.

Rob Burch

Oh your definitely right tho Priss isn't the nicest person she did get Alice clothes and a home and Nan definately was there for Alice and Lizzie when they had been younger

The idea of Hysteria and Rage Alice as foes is interesting. I sort of love it. Fighting the darkness within. Its definitely an intriguing idea and I would imagine that the fights would be insane (just like we want!)

This is absolutely my favorite art so far!

I think making the player fight its own character (Alice fighting herself , her Shadow and darkness) could be a great idea , not only to the narrative display , also in gameplay ,because it's a real challenge for every person or player to fight ourselves and our own enemy within us , also it could be also good to the game mechanics , sounds nice !

Alice vs Alice(s) fight would require a lot of technicity in the gameplay so that it's not just a stab-her-in-the-back-and-run kind of thing. You've got to make these fights count: Decapitation and dismemberment at the least. You grew up with Monthy Python movies so you know what I mean ;)

Make Nine Inch Nails great again

Love the black dragon. He looks like he is protecting his treasure which is covered in Tar. The ideas sounds great, Mainly since Alice find out about the fire is not her fault from the first game and who caused it in the second game. Id like to see Ms. Nan Sharpe since Alice seems to like her so much (even though she owns a whore house) and Ms. Priss Witless. According to Alice those 2 helped her out allot in her childhood. Someone correct me here.

Saleh Abu-Rashid

I always love the idea of fighting a dark version of the main character, it makes for a really hard fight usually, since the shadow version of yourself usually has the same (or at least similar) moves and weapons, which makes you have to find a new way of going about it, otherwise, you’ll get beaten by your own tricks

eman5112

I was thinking (since the jabberwocky is whole here) what if. The reason the jabberwocky is all made up of machine parts is because Alice already hacked him to pieces and he was rebuilt by order of the Queen? The Mad hatter Maybe had something to do with that? Also Alice's shadow forms being born from the jabberwocky blood? Kinda like Medusa birthing the horse Pegasus from her blood!

I personally like the idea of Rage and Hysteria Alice making a comeback, nicely ties in to the previous games, but IMHO there needs to be a larger narrative reason so it doesn’t feel corny. “A hero’s biggest enemy is actually themselves” is kinda trite and it would take some interesting gameplay/interesting plot combo to make it memorable. Maybe something that reframed the entire game in retrospect a la Spec Ops The Line

Alex L.

Omg! These art pieces look amazing! Love the shadow self idea <3 I think it would be so cool if Rage or Hysteria were introduced by dealing the finishing blow to the Jabberwocky when everything seems to be over. That would be an entrance! :o Maybe there could be different shadow selves that aren't just rage too like emotions that contribute to rage (e.g. Guilt, Hurt and Fear). I'm so glad you are making this :D

I fucking love this idea, but I do wonder... Will this 'Shadow Alice' be ultimately be the demise of Alice herself? That is to say, will she lose the battle, thus causing her to go into the coma that bridges the gap between this game and AMA? Or will she defeat her Shadow, and something else entirely causes her to go into a coma?

Loving this and the art is sick!!! I want it on my wall!!! o(≧∇≦o) True, our greatest enemy is ourselves. Alice has to face her true self and accept it, that is the only way to win and move forward. Do I sense an Alice vs. Dark Alice fight? I do hope so!!!! Think of Link vs. Dark Link in 'Zelda: Ocarina of Time' ... Oh, would that kind of battle be amazing in this game.

I like the shadow Alice idea. I think the art would be amazing for this; after defeating it have an image of her standing in the middle and two shadowy versions on either side of her (kinda like the angel and devil on each shoulder) have her looking mean with a smirk while the two suck into her immediately followed by a flash! Cut to her new stage/dress/power upgrade for the last boss. Just an idea ;)

Way better than I can draw! Awesome art, Gregory!

I'm not a good artist, but this idea got me so excited I went and did a little drawing of Rage and Hysteria fighting over Alice that I'd like to share: <a href="https://i.imgur.com/6OCNeq5.jpg" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/6OCNeq5.jpg</a> (I promise it's not a picture or drawing of anyone's junk)

Just wanted to say that I love this picture. It reminds me of William Blake's the red dragon

Fighting bigger foes always points out where the real battle is. With my own mind and thoughts. Thinking you aren’t good enough to overcome those qualities. The physical pain you feel when your pride is stabbed. It’s not that you did it wrong that hurts, it’s that you let YOURSELF do it wrong and you didn’t let that person down more than you disappointed yourself. Could Alice have saved her family? If she woke up sooner could she do something? If she was stronger and not as scared could she see who the real culprit was. Why didn’t she point out the fathers friends creepy interest in her sister sooner? Could it have saved her ? I think these questions are more dangerous and dark than a dragon to be slayed. So short answer - yes. Love the idea.

I like the idea of the Jabberwock as the primary antagonist and the art is amazing. I especially like that even though he may be the main foe in the game, in the art you still see the Queen's tentacles, which is a nice foreshadowing of events to come in the first Alice game.

Love this idea and the art! It is true sometimes the greatest foe is your shadow self. So much so you never want to face it. Sometimes its that internal struggle that is making the external struggles for you and you don't even realize it.

Ohh, I looove your idea of Alice stapping Hysteria Alice. Seeing her conquer her anger and learning to control it.

The short version: Awesome art from Omri. Nice little detail with the skull shape in the smoke. Awesome incorporation of the Chaos Coins. I really love the idea of the quests. It feels very natural to look to your surroundings for the source of troubles, only to later realize the true enemy is inside yourself (who hasn't done so?). I can see them tower over her, looking scary and telling her that it is all her fault, and later in the game Alice realizes that they are a part of her and thus she "harnesses" them and finds her strength to fight the real enemy.

Love the idea of her fighting her shadow selves. The jabberwocky looks great

I think having her fight herself makes sense since she is literally battling within her own mind. Also, I'd be interested in seeing her fight not just rage and hysteria but maybe multiple battling emotions. Maybe something like the "wave forms of the final boss". Rage, fear, sadness, hysteria, etc. And every time they change they are a little stronger until the final stage? I'm sure after everything she went through she felt many emotions, and seeing them all get some time in the spotlight would be interesting (maybe just to me, but it's a thought). Then as the final boss is defeated she could cycle through forms violently until she "wakes up" and looks just like the normal Alice. ((Also, Hi from Texas!!! I live in the DFW area too))

Destiny Jenson

The conflict with Alice’s “inner demons”, her acceptance of herself, her identity, her agency, and responsibility has always been lurking in the narrative. The conflict with Rage and Hysteria almost feels more like a build-up to the finale to me. Alice must come to terms with these aspects of herself before facing her final foe, whoever that turns out to be. This approach avoids paralleling AMA too closely, yet allows this must-see showdown to build the narrative to its conclusion.

Love the idea, works well!

While I like the idea of having a Jabberwocky as a primary foe, I think the final outcome should not be killing it, as it is alive in AMA. It does, however, have several mechanical prostheses which could tie-in with the events that will happen in Asylum.

Well if you wanted horror that picture sure marks the beginning of a dark descent indeed. As for the idea of having to battle against rage and hysteria alices, well ... let's just say that simply reading the sentence in my head gave me goose bumps. I sure would love to see it happen.

Davinellulinvega

How about this idea: Rage and Hysteria could be occasional allies throughout the game, lending Alice their strength and will to help her along key moments of the game and certain crises, but every time they do, they have something to gain that isn't immediately apparent. Along the way, they commit acts Alice doesn't agree with and she has to either compete with them to reach an objective or have something of a duel or miniboss fight with Rage or Hysteria (or both!). Each of these would be symbolic of Alice's outbursts during her stay at Rutledge and the overarching idea of the true enemy being (at) her (side) all along. At the end, they could finish off the Jabberwocky (who has something they want, like the key to controlling Alice's mind or becoming the dominant personality) after Alice has weakened it through the "final" boss fight. This final fight against Rage and Hysteria would be Alice's fight to subjugate and control her emotions and enter a more stable state of mind for further healing to begin.

Jay Olsen

I'm so excited to meet Jabberwocky! That's one of my most favorite villains in the Alice series. Also, LOVE the idea of Alice fighting her shadow self. My favorite thing about American McGee's Alice was that she had to fight herself in the end. Make it happen, guys!

Holy crap, I love the idea of Rage and Hysteria Alice as some of the main obstacles of the game! The amount of fascinating possibilities that leaps to mind reading that is just immense, from the visuals, to conversations she could have with them, and how potential boss fights against them would go. And defeating the Jabberwocky as a “final boss” would set up his mechanized state from “AMA” nicely. One thing I think would be awesome for Hysteria Alice is if after defeating her, Alice stabs her through the heart with the Vorpal Blade, retroactively showing that the bleeding wound on her chest in “AMR” was self-inflicted. Might look cool, might also have some deeper meaning too!

Also, love this Jabberwocky! He looks much scarier than the AMA one!

Priscila Nosoma

I FREAKING LOVE the idea of fighting Rage and Hysteria Alice! Not as a final boss, but they would make an insane boss fight. Also like the idea of Alice having some blackouts between some levels, when the shadows could take over.

Priscila Nosoma

I would love to see both forms back, it's exciting to imagine getting to see the rage form of Alice in the newer more detailed graphics/style. Hysteria was ridiculously fun and lovely visually in Madness Returns, I am always for more of that as well. I also like the idea of her absorbing and using them as her own tools in the future as we've seen. As usual nothing but good news and ideas :).

Yess!!! I was hoping to see more of the Jabberwocky!!! I wanted to see him in the second game but this is awesome too!! :D

The plot that you have laid out for us is very similar to the first game in my opinion. *SPOILER* Alice is trying to save wonderland only to realise she and the red queen are the same person and its herself who is the greater evil. So there might need to be some consideration to make the story of asylum more independent. Loving the art as always (they're always so creepily fascinating) American, enjoy your time in Texas Martin, look after Lulu See you next week at stream

LOVE LOVE LOOOOVE the idea! &lt;3

Very incredible the art is stunning and profound it shows that inner darkness of one's self and also that we as humans carry things in which we wish to hide deep inside of ourselves. The grief , the guilt deep in ones heart that consumes us for wanting to make a change. The should have and the would have are far too late. But when looks in a mirror and sees beyond one's self and the depth of one's heart it tends to be ugly and we wish to wash that away or lock it up in the darkest abyss of one's mind. Till that day that shatters and over takes the body, mind and soul. Devouring everything in it's path becoming destructing. One tries to keep in chains that beast of Carnage but not even the cage of light can hold it in. By how much the mind is shattered. Sometimes freedom is an option to erase it all. But it is better to fight the beast within to destroy and accept was has happened. That is how my past self has felt after a tragedy happened in my family. I still have that wound of guilt in my heart. But knowing time and understanding why thing went the way they did. Redemption is far from my reach.

Love the idea. True to the game, character and narrative.

The trinity idea really makes an impression. Many years ago I dreamt I was split into three: the dreaming me, the dark me and the light me. I did away with the dark me quite brutally, but never could find the light me in the labyrinthine edifice in which the dream played out. I've been searching ever since

Last time i had to "fight my characters self" was in Zelda XD. I like the idea but not as an final Boss...I don't know but the best thing about Madness returns end boss (for me at least) was that i really REALLY hated him so i just wanted to kill him and make him suffer...fighting Alice would be something....kinda strange(maybe too boring for normal people, ii guess that's why no game did this for an end boss XD). I would love to see an "real" end boss and after that fight, a fight with your inner self maybe (maybe with and "choose option": kill your inner self or forgive him so 2 ends would be possible XD just an idea). But i love the new art, it looks really good.

Jessi St.

This idea sounds perfect to me, I always got the sense from the Alice games that even with all the external enemies in Alice's life and the traumas she faces, the biggest battle would be within herself/against her own mind, fighting to overcome the guilt and depression and grief. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how you translate that into Asylum!

The image is splendid. The idea of fighting your 'other self' is something that many of us must have thought of in some way, but having it materialised in a form of Hysteria Alice could be interesting. It reminds me of Silent Hill 3. I wonder if splitting Alice and her shadow is a must - maybe she can have blackouts where she doesn't remember what she was doing (between changing levels?) and that would be when her shadow self could take over. We could interact with a shadow by looking into a mirror or something. Anyway, I'm excited about the plot, looking forward to more ideas! :)

Fighting the rage/hysteria Alice's would be crazy! Great boss battle idea 🔥🔥🔥

HelplessHeroes

That is an impressive idea. Looking forward to seeing how you’ll develop the symbolic plot in the future!