Ask Ian: What Rifles Were the M2-M13? (ad-free)
Added 2022-09-27 12:00:05 +0000 UTCFrom Dennis on Patreon:
"What rifles were between the M1 Garand and the M14? I went through Basic with an M14 and I know the M15 was supposed to be a BAR replacement. Google doesn't really find anything on the M2 - M13 rifles."
The Army had rifle for much more than just standard infantry use. They also adopted rifles for marksmanship practice, sub caliber firing of artillery, pilot survival (as the Army Air Force), and spotting. Here are the M2 through M13:
M2 - Springfield .22LR training rifle (updated from the M1922) (https://youtu.be/kOc23X5IeEM)
M3 - Not used
M4 - Harrington & Richardson pilot survival rifle; bolt action .22 Hornet
M5 - Subcaliber .22LR adapter for 37mm guns
M6 - Ithaca pilot survival combination gun; .22 Hornet over .410 shotgun (https://youtu.be/LnHW3-aDP30)
M7 - Subcaliber .30-06 adapter for the 75mm recoilless rifle
M8 - Spotting rifle for the 106mm recoilless rifle (https://youtu.be/GHvmeyA-8rQ)
M9 - Subcaliber .30-06 adapter for the 106mm recoilless rifle
M10 - Not used
M11 - Not used
M12 - Harrington & Richardson .22LR training rifle
M13 - Remington .22LR training rifle
Comments
Probably that. New class, new numbers.
alphawhiskey
2022-09-29 02:49:06 +0000 UTCSubmachine guns had their own independent set of designation numbers. The Thompson was the M1 SMG, for instance.
Forgotten Weapons
2022-09-28 10:07:50 +0000 UTCIan, in this session you said that the m-3 was not used in nomenclature. The M3 was used for the M3 submachine gun.
Eugene Neigoff
2022-09-28 04:00:24 +0000 UTCThere were several renumbering schemes for equipment through the years. Some came from when Congress realized that that the Navy and Air Force were buying the same planes, but giving them different designations.
Bryan R Stahl
2022-09-27 22:54:52 +0000 UTCThis makes me wonder, why is the Abrams the M1 tank, when we had M2, M3 and M4 tanks going back to WWII? Plus the M60 tank of the Vietnam era. Did they just ignore their own numbering system? Was the Abrams a different category of tank, like "Main Battle Tank" or something along those lines while the M4 was a "Medium Tank"?
Matt Haught
2022-09-27 19:27:43 +0000 UTCThe SMG designations were independent of the Rifle ones.
Forgotten Weapons
2022-09-27 18:50:21 +0000 UTCI’m thinking the M3 Grease Gun took the M3 designation.
Patrick Moran
2022-09-27 18:11:48 +0000 UTChey if it would be brit it would be something like mark.....star.star.star... plus shotguns precision rifles cable throwing navy something....
Guido Schriewer
2022-09-27 16:30:53 +0000 UTCGreat question and fantastic answer. Thanks.
Glenn Miller
2022-09-27 15:12:19 +0000 UTCDidn't IMI make a reproduction of the M6? It may have been 22lr/410 rather than 22 hornet/410.
David K. Jernigan
2022-09-27 14:34:59 +0000 UTCThere is a large collection of USAF survival rifles and development versions at the Air and Armaments Museum near Egland AFB, Fl.
Beverly Chmelik
2022-09-27 14:15:53 +0000 UTCForgot about that, thanks!
Brett Baker
2022-09-27 14:00:20 +0000 UTCThe Carbine designations were independent of the Rifle ones.
Forgotten Weapons
2022-09-27 13:51:15 +0000 UTCM3 carbine probably took the M3 designation. Remember the M2 carbine was used by USAF until the early 60s.
Brett Baker
2022-09-27 13:19:06 +0000 UTC...and people complain that the British system of Markss and Stars is complicated! lol
Julian Corbett
2022-09-27 13:12:21 +0000 UTCThe US military as a whole ignores its equipment designation systems on a regular basis for all kinds of reasons, but usually dumb ones.
Ryan D Thorne
2022-09-27 13:08:19 +0000 UTCI am so glad somebody else brought this up. In the press releases for the new Sig M5, they kept calling it the M5 Rifle instead of the M5 Carbine. I even contacted the PEO about it and the general response was “Huh. That’s weird”. So yeah, even the Army has apparently forgotten that they already had an M5 rifle and this new infantry small arm is supposed to be the M5 carbine.
alphawhiskey
2022-09-27 12:37:27 +0000 UTC
