Update On Merchant Tiers

I'm not a merchant and I'm still learning the ins and outs of this new business type. I been interested in this account to sell minis to friends and family mostly, but also to have a vendor table to sell a few prints. I am nowhere interested in etsy and similar sites to sell prints. I feel there are already way too many people selling the same thing online. Although I rarely see prints at conventions, unless I am missing something due to recent Covid restrictions maybe there are folks that do this. On a side note, I look at selling your prints, or anyone else's like having a franchise and helping the company out by showing their products off and respectfully sharing links to your sites and more. If doesn't have to be a clash of champions, it should be a shared interested in an amazing hobby.

BrokenHeroics

I think this is a simple calculation for me. Either A) the market is flooded and sales drop or B) my branding and positioning remain strong enough to make the brand profitable. If (A) happens then I will simply drop the license and move on to other sellers. If (B) happens then all is good. I will say it is pretty discouraging to see these artists not fully understand the market. Creating a wild west situation around your brand isn't the best in the long run. There needs to be some level of barrier to entry - either through fees or exclusivity. Otherwise, as a growing seller, the brand carries so much risk. I've seen it happen with other brands. Luckily for merchants though, there are tons of artists out there to support.

Matt Fu

Kickstarter and Patreon have forced a lot of bad habbits on people who have no experience in retail, or sales, or maketing. their "ideas" and system is ANTI sales. On kickstarter you offer "early bird" but then people who find you later can be pissed off people are getting the same fiels for MORE money. It's not like a product that needs to be manufactured. Patreon has the same problem with "loyalty" and it works both ways. Creators forget that the LOYALTY is being able to count on that $10 every month. It's about GIVING MORE to get that loyalty. And you need to make it worthwhile, because that $10 a month is $120 a year. and it's a lot easier to KEEP an existing customer than to find a new one!! But it also is ANTI new customers, because you want to say that $10 price is "just for patrons" and jack the costs up to $50 or $75 or $200 after the month is over. What does that really do? It chases NEW PEOPLE away. Most people find you from LAST MONTHS files someone finally painted and posted. they come, and those files are gone, now $50 not $10. they don't like that "attitude" so they leave. You lost not only thata sale, but a potential new LOYAL subscriber. And as your back catalogue gets bigger, that problem gets worse, because that $120 a year to buy 12 months is now $600 or $800. The biggest demand for your back catalog is your NEW SUBSCRIBERS. If you made it attractive, they would fill in AND you will pick up people who now had a hope of getting this month, as well as the previous months AFFORDABLY. You have to realize this not LOST income, it's GAINED INCOME. That is the hardest thing to get across. Some patreons now offer last months offering to subscribers because they;ve realized that many POTENTIAL subscribers came for that. Even if they stay for one month, you still picked up $10 you didn't have before..... Will people try to game it, and skip months? Maybe, but they use that money to support other artists (jus like they are supporting you). think about it.

PUGDOG Enterprises, Inc.

I won’t go into all of it. But other patreons that have or have had unlimited merchant tiers wrecked their merchant market. The issue is the merchants that don’t care because the tier is unlimited and relatively cheap that print the models in a horrifically low standard. So people buy them because they are the cheapest, then get a model that looks like crap and come to the conclusion that all models from that sculptor are crap. Which then tanks the merchant market. Having competition in the merchant market keeps prices manageable and also quality prints. Unlimited destroys that and has always so far ruined the reputation of the patreon for buyers.

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and likely draw the ire of the existing merchants. I don't see any reason the merchant tier should be capped at all, and even adding the additional spots at a higher cost seems artificially anti-competitive. Why should someone have an advantage because they were here longer? If a new guy comes in and wants to try making money by selling 3D models, what exactly justifies having artificial barriers of entry for him? The market should be open and competitive. The edge that you existing merchants have should be experience, quality, and ratings/recognition on Etsy or wherever you're selling stuff. Just because you got your foot in the door earlier doesn't mean that you bring more value in any way. I think having any sort of cap is anti-competitive. If that means raising the price for all merchants and uncapping it entirely I think that would be more fair than this change (although this change is more fair than an artificial cap in the first place). Imagine if 3D printer manufacturers had merchant tiers, where only the first 500 people to buy a printer were allowed to commercially produce models. Or if Lowes had a cap where only the first 500 people to buy a new tool were allowed to use it commercially. Honestly, it doesn't make much sense to me besides being an artificial way to increase scarcity and therefor demand and profit for the Patreon's doing it. If DTL or other Patreons do prefer to keep the numbers low and cap the number of people selling their models (I understand how flooding the market with poor quality stuff could be bad) then imo the solution for that would be to vet merchants, not just limit it to first-come first-serve.

Corax

I thought as someone who has been a merchant since the first couple of months I should share my thoughts. When I started selling minis, Dragon trappers lodge was among the first two licenses I picked up. It was my best seller for a long time and I always had orders. Over the course of 2021 I have seen a significant drop of orders for mini from you guys and new shops who dont care about profit as much undercutting me is a big factor in my opinion. I spent a lot of time deciding what prices to place on my items especially large ones so I can actually make a living. A lot of shop sell stuff nearly for the cost of resin which I cant do as this is how I pay bills. You are right that people should be allowed to try selling minis, but no cap is a little worrying. As for more models, I really hope it doesnt affect the quality and creativity. I'd honestly much rather have less that are better, than more. I think 45 models a month a excessive, not sure how you guys are going to be able to keep up creatively over the long run. All this to say I just hope my dragon trappers lodge mini sales dont drop low enough from this that I wont be making money anymore and have to drop the license. You made some fair points on your end for sure, but over the past year the 3D printing miniature market has definitely gotten saturated. I would gladly pay double the price for the license as long as I know I'll be able to make sales.

I'm in total support for this as a patreon subscriber. Honestly, I bought a 3D printer due to the low quality of workmanship I was getting from merchants. Don't get me wrong, some are fantastic and support their product, knowing exactly what it means to be a proud business owner, while others push stuff out as quickly and cheaply as possible with no form of QC. My point is, if you're one of the "good" merchants, you have nothing to worry about. Retaining return business should be easy. if you're not, maybe it's time to step up you're game. As someone with 2 printers now, I'd still rather give you $40-$50 for a model, than run my printers all weekend and deal with post processing. Out of all the merchants I've done business with, only 3/10 would get my return business. The ones that charge more are usually the passionate ones who care, and do an amazing job representing the hobby. The cheaper ones are usually pushing things out quickly to make more money faster, but there's no quality control, bad scaling, uncured parts, cracks and open fissures, broken/missing peices etc. This really hurts the hobby and in some cases hurts the actual creators by misrepresenting their product. This industry is still growing and maturing, and there's lots of room for healthy competition. Anyways, Dragon Trappers Lodge, more models per month is nothing but win win for me! You guys deliver amazing models every month and that's why you always remain in my "don't touch" list when it comes to pruning. To all the merchants who feel hurt by this move, learn how to promote, learn the true meaning of QC, don't profit on shipping rates, also customer support/relations and communication should be a huge priority. Open merchant tiers are gonna be a common reality sooner or later. It's time to set yourself apart from the herd. Just a guy with over 30 years experience in retail, management, and an old school resinhead dating back to the beginning of the hobby. Anyways, love it, hate it, take it or leave it... just my humble opinion based on my exposure to this hobby over the last year.

Ralph Gethings

I mean. I pay 67 dollars CAD for White Werewolf Tavern, and only 33 CAD for Dragon Trappers....so...I think they have a great price point. I just think the price should be steeper for the new tier. Especially if they are to keep it open indefinitely. But that's just me. These guys make some incredible sculpts, so I just can't not see what they do. xD

Joshua Harris

I would rather you raise my merchant fee then allow an unlimited number of new merchants. You will drive away the merchants who have been loyal month after month. I will wait and see what happens but if I can not make a profit then I can not justify continuing to pay from a business prospective. Its already bad enough as it is when I see a model selling for less then 5.00 more then it cost to produce. I have 14 patreons. I have only one I pay more then yours so your price comparison is a little off.

AVS 3D Printing - Laser Cutting - Engraving

This is a great idea! Even at 35$ you're still really cheap compare to other Patreon with much much smaller release than your current ones. I would have though the new merchant tier would have been even higher at 45-50$ like most patreon now. I'm happy for the change and more stuff!! I really do love you characters and unique monsters! I do hope this will also bring us more trappers :D love what you do with all those races!

MinionMancer

Thanks for the support. We understand why current merchants are upset and I think they have a fair reason to be. We still feel this is a necessary change though.

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

Look, I'm not a merchant, I have no skin in this game, but I feel like I have to step in with some support for you, to provide a balance against some of the messages above. You're a brand new company in a brand new industry that changes completely every few months, no one should expect you to never change your business model. BAM coming onto the scene must have really shaken things up, just as you did when you came on last year, and I love seeing what heights everyone can help each other achieve. Keep up the amazing work.

Josh Rodell

If it helps fund more models in your monthly set then go for it.

Harry Colquhoun

We weren’t even aware it might not be legal in some places. Good to know

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

Thank you. We’re glad to have you as a member of the lodge.

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

Just leaving some support. You guys are awesome, and I'm loving the news that we're getting more models per release.

Love this. The cartel system that’s on most patreons is bad and downright illegal in some countries tnx

Jeffrey Ernst

Thanks for your support and we’re happy to have you as one of our merchants.

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

I agree. Your raising the tier 10$. 35$ is nothing, specially with it still being less than 1$ a model, for new merchants. It would be a no brainer as a merchant to take it on.

Kristina B.

We have not decided yet. We may keep it open indefinitely.

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

Thanks for your support

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

As I mentioned I don't believe in artificially limiting the number of people who have an opportunity to sell our models. Others have just as much right to sell as you do. The market will find a balance with out our intervention but I am open to hearing other perspectives.

The Dragon Trappers Lodge

You guys do an amazing job with your models, and we're going to be getting 45+ models per month from now on??? I dunno how the "hobbyist sellers" are gonna keep up! Heck, I don't know how we're gonna keep up 😂 But this has been an amazing ride so far and I can't wait to see where it goes from here!!

HalZyr's 3D Emporium

I feel better about this knowing the packs will be trippling in size but would honestly feel better either with a much higher merchant tier price for new people (that many minis, some go as high as 50 dollars a month or more) or/and the new tiers were going to be capped. Overall I appreciate you guys taking the time to address our concerns. You really do make amazing miniatures and I am very happy to be working with a team so open to feedback.

Ryder Frankle

Thank you for responding to concerns. I would like to know though is the new Merchant Tier going to truly be unlimited for an arbitrary amount of time? or do you have a general idea when you would cut it off?

Sensibly put Austin. You guys are amazing, as is your work, and your models sell really well. It's always been a great value from you. I'd add that this is in no way unusual when compared to many other Patreons. Bring on the competition ;)

Figure Forge

The problem isn’t opening the new spots, problem is having no cap