Electric After Dark Podcast - The People Want BLOOD!
Added 2022-02-14 09:41:18 +0000 UTCIn today's episode I talk about my growing alienation with discord (a running theme of the show), the importance of Online Leaderboards being built into games, and my review of the new G4 and why it was doomed from the start.
Comments
awesome stuff my dude!!! Yes, sadly many scoring systems these days do not measure up to scoring systems of the past. And since this ep I have actually stopped being the server owner and it has been a Massive relief ha. Also no need to go back and watch attack of the show, though it is like prototype youtube.
The Electric Underground
2022-07-11 15:34:43 +0000 UTCJust listened now on my work marathon. I completely agree with the situation regarding scoring, and the absence of online leaderboards is a huge yellow flag when I try new games, especially since I'm just relegated to my PC. (zeroranger is excepted though.) I also feel that many new games fail to design scoring in such a way that it itself has its own unique yet smooth enough learning curve (thinking back to the DDP scoring learning curve, for example). A lot of these games have extremely lopsided learning curves or little potential for maximization at all. That's also the hidden value when you finally do find games that engineer it properly (blue revolver my beloved). As for Discord, I feel it's just too hard to think of it as something that one can easily be a leader or public figure within. The way it's structured leads to the urge to be personally responsible to respond to every message and sentiment which is less seen on other platforms. It's easy to say "just let go and stop caring" but that is just so much harder to do on Discord than other places because of the online social and psychological threat. Lastly, forgive my zoomerism but I have no idea wtf a G4 or an Attack of the Show is. Might look it up later but I get the gist haha. Thanks for staving off my boredom as always
legless
2022-07-11 13:38:38 +0000 UTCYeah it is a bummer how much drama goes on with discord, even if you try to keep it to a minimum it's hard to escape ha. But yes I think stepping down as a mod and server owner is going to be a nice change of pace for me. Also yes, I'd to do more scoring content, it's just really tricky to dig up correct information. That being said I do plan on doing a scoring overview of DOJ soon!
The Electric Underground
2022-02-19 23:59:19 +0000 UTCSorry to hear that about your discord. I never joined it myself, but a friend of mine who's in there (a mod even?) mentioned how there was a lot of drama in there that made him want to tune out as well. It seems disheartening when you want to create a nice community and it ends up turning into something more toxic. Hopefully a vacation from that stuff will be good for you since nobody needs to get jumped on all the time. Also, content on scoring on the channel would be great. As much as I enjoy shmups, I'm actually pretty ignorant of the state of world records and different scoring players etc so it'd be cool to learn about that stuff (I still mostly play them casually myself, in part because I haven't gotten many 1CCs yet).
CosmicCrown
2022-02-19 17:04:48 +0000 UTCExcellent points!! Yes I've been discussing this a lot with Boghog about how shmups could potentially start doing more to make the points make sense, like giving players a ranking system similiar to the one in tekken, so that you could literally rank grind online, that would be pretty cool I think
The Electric Underground
2022-02-16 17:43:17 +0000 UTCWith scoring I think it's that devs in general haven't done a good job encouraging it. Your average player doesn't see the point of it - not just in shooters, but pretty much any genre that still includes a score counter. The thing is, people still grind for gamer score & PSN trophies. They still grind for special items in MMOs & online FPSes. So it's not like the urge has gone anywhere, the genre just weirdly stalled out on advancing one of its central defining characteristics. It's often under the surface or off to the side, and offers no tangible reward or effect outside a leaderboard and maybe a couple of extends like it has since Galaga. The rest of the gaming world is like 5 major evolutionary shifts ahead of that in terms of incentivizing mastery and displaying achievement.
Philip Mason
2022-02-16 03:42:45 +0000 UTCWe have online leaderboards in Schildmaid MX and have been thinking about the cheating aspect as well and how to counter it. Til now everyone has been behaving and the most ridiculous scores have the recordings to prove it, but if we can manage to implement integrated replays, we will have a better idea of if scores are legit or not.
Michiel Kroder
2022-02-15 09:16:41 +0000 UTCYeah and a possible solution could be some clever anti cheat measures, I do want to start exploring how these might work in future vids and discuss
The Electric Underground
2022-02-15 01:44:58 +0000 UTCYes Gotta love the Chrono trigger ost!! I do hope I can help make the idea of online leaderboards being a norm more popular
The Electric Underground
2022-02-15 01:43:24 +0000 UTCGreat points! You're putting out a lot of fantastic creative content, despite your circumstances. Yeah people definitely agitated these days, wanting blood. I'm finding social media interactions pretty dissapointing too. As a dev, the online leaderboards are something that I'd like to do but also not wanting to do, because there's always some desperate cheaters that will do anything to be on top and ruin the whole thing. I don't' want to have to spend a lot of time moderating scoreboards. But you do make a good point, maybe I should just do them anyway.
Alastair Jack
2022-02-15 00:04:54 +0000 UTCI can definitely see that!
Michiel Kroder
2022-02-14 21:14:17 +0000 UTCAlways appreciate the podcasts Mark, also the part about you using your influence in the wider shmup scene is definitely a good idea, and good Chrono Trigger music
Kikoman589
2022-02-14 20:13:35 +0000 UTCIt's a shitter that, I created a discord recently but I just don't plain have the time for it I don't think, I don't know how you do in the first place to be honest!
RiffMason
2022-02-14 20:08:48 +0000 UTCYes exactly, very good assessment of the situation. Basically stuff like discord does start off with a fun positive vibe, but as it grows in popularity more and more people start to come in and push that attitude away from trying to get along and into "OH BIG DRAMA" and people just feast on that like it's a drug. So yeah I think that's how the situation on there as de-evolved where the more positive people are becoming less and less active and the more aggressive people are becoming more bold by the day. I'll probably try just stepping down as server owner and moderator after slam 5 and see if that improves things, where I'll basically just use my account to dm people and such.
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 19:25:22 +0000 UTCYeah I've been thinking about it and I'll probably still have my account on there, but I'm going to step down from being a server owner and moderator and instead just use my account to dm people basically, because trying to take part in general conversations on there is pretty brutal ha.
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 19:21:50 +0000 UTCexactly my dude! This is why it's not nearly as fun using it anymore, you don't really get the freedom to express new ideas without people going ham on you in 0.3 seconds if you make such a critical mistake as "I like ketsui's pixel art" ha.
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 19:19:57 +0000 UTCYeah and I really appreciate that. I get a lot of positive feedback these days on the youtube channel as well, so it's funny how there is that rift in attitude on the youtube side of my audience vs when I try to post things to discord and people are cranky about it. I do think discord is just slowly turning more and more negative for whatever reason, even outside of me being on there.
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 19:18:25 +0000 UTCYes exactly, I def do understand that it comes with the territory for sure! I think the problem with discord is that it has a tendency to really pull people into these negative dogpiles where one person complains about something (like me being biased in my fav shmup reviews) and before you know it people are just bringing up random things to rant and complain about. That real time momentum and thrill people get I think can be a big issue of the platform. Whereas on youtube things don't tend to snowball the same way.
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 19:16:45 +0000 UTCSeems to me that whatever the discord thing was supposed to be hasn't really ended up that way. I marvel at your creative output, but I get a twinge of horror as to all of the voices you have to manage/deal with coming at you throughout the day. Best to just keep it minimal, positive and giving you energy to reinvest into what you do creatively. The rest just ends up a drain for the most part (even if you think you need the diversion/entertainment, there are usually better choices). I walked away from Twitter for about 5 months and it really cleared my head. I recently dipped back in and I'm already regretting it. It just brings out the worst in people, on the whole. You may or may not recall that I had my own garbage to deal with in the discord and I walked away entirely a year ago. I only drop in to msg you every now and again. But I get it that you started the whole thing and probably somewhere you wanted to have this chill community to rally people around what we're all supposed to be interested in (shmups). It's just how these communities evolve (devolve?). It gets heavily skewed towards loud and obnoxious, dramatic voices. There probably is something to be said for what it would take for someone to spend so much time in a small virtual room. What's going on in their life by the way of positivity that drives them to that? Probably not much. Anyways, you're on the top of your game when it comes to your creative output and it's a shame that all of this other stuff is dragging you down. I think you just have to walk away and refocus on the things that give you energy. Your youtube channel, this patreon, other creative pursuits. I think you'll discover the same thing you did when you left Twitter.
NeonDaggerGames
2022-02-14 18:30:22 +0000 UTCAlways cool to see a new pod bro beans. Sounds like it may be to pull the plug on discord - if you do after the slam you'll give yourself the time to be sure. I know it's easy for me to say - those folks that just want to be rude etc - it's on them Mark, thats their error not yours, try not to carry their stuff or take it to heart. I occasionally check out peoples channels when they leave a shitty comment and 99% of the time they don't upload or do anything - mfs canne celebrate what they love. Hope you feel better soon bub and that you don't have to take another job . Tc fren ... https://youtu.be/CMjQVRWxbPI
broken1394
2022-02-14 18:29:20 +0000 UTCIt's not just you, while your discord is a great source of information, it's absolutely not a place where I feel comfortable just hanging out. I don't know what it is but I just don't connect well with whatever is going on. For example, one thing I like to do is check out the various ports of shmups that are on consoles. So if I find something interesting or discover that an old version of a game finally has good emulation and can run I'll post about it in the respective channel. Without fail this is met with, "Why would you ever play this, it's garbage, this is a waste of time, play MAME." etc. I guess it's just a much more hardcore mindset that prevails these days. It's not just your discord though, even other places it gets to be a little too much. I think in such a skill based genre people put so much of themselves into their favorite game or accomplishment that they can feel personally attacked when someone has a different opinion on things. I'm sure it happens in all skill based communities. I've almost had to walk away from discord a few times myself because of it.
Chinopolis
2022-02-14 13:26:58 +0000 UTCHey once again, made up you like the tune dude. Sorry to hear about you having a rough time on the discord though, it seems like you really work your tail off making shmup content and contributing to the community so it can't be fun when people with bad attitude problems start giving you grief. Just wanted to say despite that there's plenty of people, myself included who are really grateful for all the work you put in. P.S. I fulfilled my new year's resolution to 1cc a game with Crimzon Clover (Novice Mode mind haha) so cheers for the introduction to it!
RiffMason
2022-02-14 11:47:01 +0000 UTCApart from the Discord format, it also seems to me that whether you like it or not, you being a prime shmup centric content creator has put you in a position of certain authority on the genre, as your voice is much "louder" than that of the average online dwelling shmup fan. And with that position comes a certain need for a lot of people to challenge that authority. So especially when you have said something they disagree with, it comes with a lot of unnecessary ire. Us on here obviously appreciating what you do definitely brings out a more positive vibe on Patreon.
Michiel Kroder
2022-02-14 11:07:25 +0000 UTC100% yes social media specifically trains people to battle and try and pick fights, as that is what drives engagement. Glad you are enjoying the episodes!!!
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 10:30:25 +0000 UTCThanks my dude! Yeah I'm going to give myself a month or so to think the situation over
The Electric Underground
2022-02-14 10:29:10 +0000 UTCI get what you mean about angry people on social media People's perceptions have been coloured by such sites and their algorithms encourage dissent because it keeps the sites active(FB I'm looking at you.I believe the senate in your country are investigating this?)The whole irony of the behaviour is that the posts often miss the context and meaning of others posts.This is sometimes deliberate but also maybe the result of the facts that in one sense postings aren't the same as talking with somebody they actually know?By the way , for the tiny amount of money you get from me, the Patreon is an absolute bargain with the content provided.
TheN1
2022-02-14 10:21:58 +0000 UTCSorry to hear this mate. Time for a great long vacation from Discord. Whatever you do, make sure to take care of yourself first and foremost! π
FULLSET
2022-02-14 10:12:07 +0000 UTC
