The Sopranos 5x10 Reaction

People really need to stop complaining about how LM view Tony or Chris. They have valid reasons to dislike these characters as people. They're not decent human beings. They're bad people. They do abhorrent things. They're completely valid in how they look at these characters. Even if they weren't, so what? There's no right way to react to a show and its characters. It's baffling to me that people defend sociopathic murdering extortionists just because they have a sob story. At least you know that the writing is that good, that people would defend people like Tony Soprano actions. He is a horrible person.

Dario

Or maybe they just don’t find the offensive jokes funny…? Why are you people so deluded 😂

Layrone Williams

I love those New Balance socks! Based

robert klein

But Walter did what he did for fun. He had a good environment and good parents

robert klein

lol someone screaming in the background at the 3:00 mark. You two should watch boardwalk empire after this

robert klein

I think he's probably confused because LM mentioned breaking bad-type comments but in pateron, 95% of the more critical comments in the past were well aware that tony was a bad person, even when there were comments that thought they missed some stuff because of the hatred of the characters or people wanting them to be softer towards them. None of those comments had tried to claim tony wasn't a bad person. I don't read the youtube comments so I'm not sure if it was the case there.

Veya

Ok, I never knew there was a more formal definition of "knockaround". Given that he just says "Tony's dad" it say it's more natural that he was referring to Johnny Soprano, as we're talking in the old days, before he ran North Jersey. Chris is talking about say 20 years ago when Johnny Soprano would have been lower ranked. Anyway, not like it matters, $4 a pound.

Abacus

Because Johnny Boy definitely wasn’t a knockaround guy, on the contrary, we know he basically ran North Jersey and at the very least was a respected member. On the other hand we don’t know much about Tony Egg’s dad so by process of elimination it simply makes more sense that Chris was referring to him.

Gaboxxy

I think that some who complain(?) that they don't find the show funny aren't frustrated with the reaction so much as they feel they are missing out on a big part of what makes the show great. The show deals with serious themes, but it's also one of the funniest series in TV history. Finding Paulie funny *and* thinking he's a monster -- and wrestling with the tension there -- only enriches the experience.

Mike

Was nice that last conversation when Milena brings at the table some comments about their view of Tony and other characters. I am not a hater of course but i am in the group what thinks if you are so judgamental (and repetitive) in a mafia show, you are missing half of the fun. But i am happy that you recognice that this is your style (specially Lola). I think that your lack of black humour is a generational problem anyway and not something personal. I think there are almost no limits at humour but people now feel so guilty to make people offended that they pass some moral filters before to laughing. Laugh is almost more a "decision" than something that happens organically (for example the joke about Ginny Sack, is the first reaction where i hear "that is not funny")

Diego Palma

I don't think (or at least I don't hope) that people look up to Tony's character in a positive light. It's quite clear the man is evil, I think most people are on board with that. That said, he's still an amazing character to watch from an outside point of view. He's incredibly entertaining. For similar reasons, Tywin Lannister is one of the best fictional characters, but he is the last person I would ever want to spend an evening with myself

windyMelon

What makes you think he's referring to Tony Egg's dad specifically? Could be, but all he says is "Tony's dad". In that same conversation, he repeatedly refers to Tony S as "Tony" and to that animal (I can't even say his name) as "Tony B". I don't get why the knockaround dad in question would be Uncle Al, maybe I'm missing something?

Abacus

The reason you view Tony’s actions more harshly is because it’s more realistic. Like ‘The Wire,’ Sopranos values authenticity pertaining to the world and culture they’re portraying. Everything from the way the mob makes their money and orders their hits is veritable. It’s not cinematic. It’s ugly. Even the therapy sessions are genuine in the way they talk. BB takes a more fantastical approach to their storytelling, including their main character, Walt, who’s more of a two dimensional bad ass villain. The deaths are more fun, and are big spectacles. You don’t feel uneasy watching them. And the writers still want you to empathize with Walt as he takes on bigger villains. But unlike Walt who is living out a fantasy, Tony didn’t really choose his life. It’s not even about empathizing with Tony. We just understand him. And that’s what makes a relatable character. Even in this episode when he antagonizes Janice; we didn’t need an explanation as to why he did that. We already know. Because we know him. The first half of Season 6 will be interesting, as we see Tony in a different light than we’ve ever seen him.

Clause

Maybe so. But you can’t really know intent because can’t read someone’s mind. You can look at circumstances and actions. Walter got the shaft in life, and was dying and needed $ for his family. He acted on that = tolerable and moral, whether or not ego played a part. When he had adequate dollars but continued, my guess at least then he was driven by ego, but with or without ego, he not tolerable and became immoral.

Clay F

@Abacus Bear in mind he reffers to Tony Egg’s dad, not Tony Soprano’s

Gaboxxy

I'd argue that while WW was *portrayed* as "tolerable and even moral" the show reveals that his actions were driven more by ego than by financial necessity.

Erik D

To be fair to Janice, and I say this as her biggest hater, as far as I understand she didn't abandon her kid per, she just total custody and is not allowed to enter Canada so she's literally not allowed to see it. Don't get me wrong, she probably didn't lose it because she was a great mother, but she didn't do it voluntarily and it is a subject that (clearly) profoundly disturbs her. With Bobby she now feels the chance to be redeem herself by being the mother she couldn't be to Harpo and we see her working on her anger issues precisely in part to be better at motherhood, but that's quickly stopped in it's tracks by Tony that had to reminds her of her failings and that she will never be good enough. It's sad, really.

Gaboxxy

It's worth noting that Chris says that Uncle Pat was "a knockaround guy *like Tony's dad*", who was definitely made. A year of the hiccups, oof Madonn'

Abacus

Even David Chase said in the documentary that he still hasn’t decided if the Sopranos is a Mob Drama or a Dark Comedy.

Gaboxxy

Yeah have seen way too many people with that perspective discuss the show. It feels fresh to watch something through new eyes, I appreciate the details they focus on

space colon

When they say comments, they always mean Patreon. They haven't read YouTube since Attack on Titan

Isaac

lol, Sopranos always the best at injecting humor into any kind of scene. the one that gets me is Chris freaking out at Ralph’s toupee. Such a horrifying thing he’s doing but I busted up laughing when that toupee came off, followed by “Jesus I had no idea!”

Octavio

"Knockaround members" were made, it's just that they are the ones with low ambition that once were made stopped really caring about earning and would rather just live with the status of being made with low-level jobs. According to Franzese, the bulk of made men were like this, basically semi-retired once they get made, and relatively few made guys were the ones that actually earned a significant amount of money for the family. If he was just an associate then he could've just retired, he wouldn't need to get permission.

Gaboxxy

@27:08 "Without Tony Soprano, there is no Walter White." - Vince Gilligan.

JG

One thing about Walt is that we learn almost nothing about his parents or how he was raised, so even if we assume he had an average middle class upbringing we simply can't be sure, and he didn't seem to get along well with his mother so who knows how she raised him.

Gaboxxy

The amount of patrons is tiny compared to the bulk of fans in youtube, so it's only natural that you will see more negative comments in Youtube. Also, people that pay to watch the girls and support them are obviously gonna be less likely to be negative on average. Some might be critical, but I can't imagine someone paying just to be straight up hateful.

Gaboxxy

Love how this episode shows the 'crabs in the bucket' mentality and how far back it goes. Aida Turturro and Michael Imperioli sell the emotions in the moment so well. That scene with the two Tonys and Chris is very relatable to me, and Chris's disappointment and sadness on the way home. Takes me back to not so fond memories. Watching the last three episodes back to back is going to be an interesting experience. Have fun? Lmao

Mark M

There’s no “right way” to react to a show, everyone is going to see things differently. I’m very much enjoying this reaction because it’s genuine and honestly I also find it amusing how disgusted they are by these people. Also I think because I’ve grown up watching a lot of mafia and gangster movies maybe I’ve become desensitized to their horrible behavior. I may be wrong but I don’t think LM have seen a lot of mafia movies so they’re just not used to how these people live and are shocked by a lot of what they see.

BND

I wasn’t sure if you guys meant Patreon or YouTube comments but I noticed the latter are usually a cesspool the day the vid goes public. Not sure if it’s always like that or maybe i just noticed it. I think the shows just too popular and a certain type of fan will always be present. I like that you girls judge each episode and the character’s actions simply by how they are and what they do. Some reactors I feel are too eager to satisfy the audience and enjoy the show the “correct” way and it becomes kinda pointless watching a reaction. For me anyway. I get the vicarious feeling of watching people enjoy stuff you love but i appreciate your own perspective. With that said, he was the boys uncle!

cheech

I read the final scene exactly the same way you two did: Tony was provoking Janice so that he could validate his own actions and justify his decision NOT to try and change. Since if she can't change, then it's not his fault and it's okay that he doesn't even make the effort. "Knockaround guy", how Chris describes Uncle Pat, has a bit of a vague meaning, but it's broadest description is a mob associate who's down for anything, but kinda average. Not a Made guy, and not really TRYING to be a Made guy. Content to be the low-level street criminal who will always be a member of somebody else's crew. Presumably that's why he was allowed to retire and still be on good terms with everybody. Since nobody counted on him for anything, he could just slide away.

JBK405

I still don’t understand why people give you shit about how you feel about Tony. At the end of the day people have to understand that is your opinion about him and it shouldn’t be a point of criticism… otherwise why would people even bother checking these reactions if they know how you feel about the character? Look, I personally disagree in a couple things you said but that doesn’t mean I will tell you have to feel about these characters. At the end of the day people have to understand that not everyone will feel the same way they feel about certain things about the show in general. It’s sad that it has to be said when we are in the last couple of seasons. Hopefully this doesn’t detract from your enjoyment of the show girls :/

Jack SV

Really liked the end discussion regarding the similarities between Tony and Walter. I personally think Tonys actions are worse than Walter and that might be because breaking bad is a shorter series and Tony has been in the mafia longer than Walt was in the meth business, but i guess the biggest argument for that is Walt made the choice at 50 while Tony was groomed into the business and raised by a horrible mother.

Knot

They’ve reacted to the boys

My Toasty Toast

for some reason this was the moment where I fully turned on Tony LOL

Mahni Alizadeh

Caleb Scott

Where are all these people having a problem with their reaction? Why is everyone repeating this? Besides maybe one or two comments pretty much everyone is in agreement that Tony was horrible in this episode.

Gaboxxy

Because it feels so real. When it comes to the Mob stuff, for most people (even in the U.S) it’s something that feels so foreign to our daily lives that we can rationalize it and conform to their world, same way we can watch an action movie and not feel empathy for the 67th poor burmese farmer Rambo annihilates. But when it comes to the more mundane stuff in the show, it’s stuff many of us have lived through and seen firsthand one way or another, so we relate more easily and get more affected by it.

Gaboxxy

In general, I find it odd to watch someone’s reaction to a show for the first time and then get mad/upset when they don’t react how you want or expect them to. I love your reactions because you bring a unique perspective and unique insights to each of these fantastic episodes and it’s very clear to me from watching your reactions (and especially the discussions) that you understand and appreciate these characters and the writing, even if you don’t laugh at certain parts or find these people to be deplorable (who wouldn’t?)

Kitchener Leslie

I think there is just a problem people have with media where whoever the main character is they feel like these are supposed to see themselves in them and support them. If the show is about them then they must be the hero of the story.

Patrick

“Sacre Bleuu! Where’s me Mama!” Why do they have to put such a funny line in such a fucked up moment lol

Gaboxxy

The Tony hate thing is hilarious, because you guys always mention how interesting and complex he is

Virgil Hawkins

My best guess is that they want the scene to end with a focus on Carmela's expression but they don't have enough footage for it.

IanJ

Chase is an unreliable narrator who says a lot of contradictory stuff and likes to BS. He was also responsible for all the final edits. The director would do the initial cut, then Chase would work on it for as long as possible, maybe for months. He had the final say on all edits.

Abacus

Classic Sopranos that in a show with dozens of murders and countless violent assaults, one of the harder scenes to watch is a guy picking a fight with his sister at Sunday dinner.

John Collins

that and male heir comment

Rok Zupan

I forgot this was the episode with the weird transition. I believe someone asked David Chase about that and he had no idea why it was that way.

James Long

Agreed. You can rationalize some of Tony's violent acts in this show. His provocation of Janice at the end of the episode is just him being mean for the sake of being mean.

IanJ

Steve Buscemi is an incredible actor, demonstrating that with his awesome performance as Tony B -- convincing and nuanced. Boardwalk Empire (2010-2014) Steve Buscemi’s big critically-acclaimed TV series in which he was lead actor is the awesome “Boardwalk Empire” (2010-2014) (also has Michael Kenneth Williams who was Omar in The Wire). Buscemi won Golden Globe for Best Actor. (He hosted SNL in 2011.) The pilot episode was directed by Martin Scorsese and produced at a cost of $18 million. The series received 57 Primetime Emmy Award nominations, including two for Outstanding Drama Series. The series also won the Golden Globe Award for Best Television Series – Drama. Buscemi Movies Some of Buscemi’s movies include Reservoir Dogs (1992), Fargo (1996), The Big Lebowski (1998), and Ghost World (2001).

Clay F

Yeah, pretty much the lowest I've ever thought of him so far. His final scene is just pure pettiness.

IanJ

I hope LM watching the final 3 episodes together won't mean shortened reviews/discussions. All 3 final eps of this season are great, especially looking forward to them talking about the Test Dream.

Abacus

Don't worry girls people that are that bothered by your lack of laughter at some scenes and comment about you being on a high horse are the real losers because why are you paying for a Patreon if you're that bothered by their reaction?

bondbond53

To answer a question from the intro, that is definitely a saying in English: "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

Marcus Cato

Your hate of Tony is justified with respect to that final scene. Walter White was tolerable and even moral during the early phases of his evolution. In contrast, when he crossed the point that he had more $ than he could ever spend for him and his family, and yet he continued as a bad guy, that is when he become plainly immoral to me.

Clay F

I honestly think that Tony provoking Janice at the end of the episode is one of the cruelest non-violent acts in the entire show.

Kevin Frey

Tony is truly despicable in this episode.

Darrach