The Sopranos 4x03 Reaction
Added 2025-01-06 01:01:19 +0000 UTC
Comments
yeap, and if western society as a whole decides to look at history through a modern lens better be prepared to offend everybody, the Prophet Muhammad for example was a p*dophile according to modern standards so be prepared to offend billions.
HeauxHalter
2025-01-17 08:27:54 +0000 UTCA lot of people consider this the worst episode of the whole series, I’m not one of those people, but there are a lot of them.
Thomas De Peña
2025-01-11 03:26:06 +0000 UTC"She will.." 🤣
Johnny_Raincloud
2025-01-08 22:28:05 +0000 UTCColumbus was neither a good guy nor bad guy. Was he extremely violent? Sure. That was the vocabulary of the time unfortunately. We in the West have an awful habit of looking at history thru 2025 lenses. Lol I'm sorry that Columbus wasn't rockin a BLM Tee-shirt. 😆
Johnny_Raincloud
2025-01-08 22:25:36 +0000 UTCLol "they see us as pizza makers...." The best food known to man? "Oh pooooor you" 🤣
Johnny_Raincloud
2025-01-08 22:23:57 +0000 UTCAlright then. Putting Howard Zinn's book into the hands of AJ rather than Meadow was apt. Zinn was famous for saying, "You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train". Furio's comments perfectly illustrate that people migrating to America bring with them all of their resentments and grievances from the old country. I personally have had a dozen friends over the years who I would not put in the same room together for fear that a fight would break out.
Thomas Fahey
2025-01-08 21:59:38 +0000 UTCAgree; it’s not a bad episode of tv, but I think it’s the worst episode of The Sopranos, and by far the worst not if going past season one.
James Oleinik
2025-01-08 10:44:25 +0000 UTCFor me, Christmas means summer, warm weather, and the beach. That’s life in the southern hemisphere 😂
RepliCant
2025-01-08 05:11:56 +0000 UTCAlso, Chief Doug Smith criticizing the protestors because of their "Ivory towers" and having a new swimming pool installed for himself in the next scene lol.
IanJ
2025-01-07 04:40:41 +0000 UTCAs was noted several times, this is generally is considered the worst episode of the Sopranos because it essentially serves to lecture the audience about some socio political messages with the subtlety of a sledge hammer. My god, they had Tony literally delivering the message in the last scene. The only thing missing was that he wasn't looking directly into the camera to address the audience. It was so heavy handed, might as well break the fourth wall. The main thing I want to note is that this was basically an hour of ordinary TV. This type of script would have been right at home in any show on network TV. Which is the opposite of what made the show great in the first place. So it wasn't bad per se. Only when compared to the stratospheric standards of this particular series.
Julien
2025-01-07 03:56:19 +0000 UTCFrankie Valli, the guy Tony mentions when they were driving back from the casino, is a famous singer and part of the band The Four Seasons. He is from New Jersey, and is somewhat infamous for his real-life ties to organized crime during his youth. The story of the Four Seasons was adapted into a play "Jersey Boys" in 2005, and then a movie in 2014. As told in "Jersey Boys", Frankie desperately wanted to be in the mafia when he was a kid, but all of the mafioso liked his singing too much to let him get involved because they didn't want to risk him getting hurt. Silvio is a little out-of-character in this episode, since normally he is the levelheaded one. That's because it was originally supposed to be Paulie getting overexcited, but when his role was reduced due to Tony Sirico's surgery they gave the role to Silvio. The thing about Christopher Columbus is that even if you disregard all of the crimes against humanity that he committed -- and let's be clear he did everything that they said he did -- he was still a MORON. People in his society already knew the circumference of the Earth to a reasonable accuracy, and he did the math again and got it WRONG. He was off by 50%. He didn't predict that the American continents would be where they were, and if the Americas hadn't been there his entire expedition would have gotten stuck in the middle of the Pacific when their supplies ran out before even getting close to Asia.
JBK405
2025-01-06 23:55:21 +0000 UTCVery telling that the guys don’t even know about the North/South divide in Italy, a reality well-understood by anyone from Italy. All this running defence of Italian heritage and pride and they have no notion of one of the most famous aspects of Italian geography. Artie getting hit with a slushie and acting like he’s taking fire was so great. This episode is a lot of fun and the heavy-handedness heightens how comical this whole thing is, like that scene of the news report at the protest and it’s the two protest leaders giving each other pelters is so ridiculous. Chief Doug Smith being the most generic name ever, of the least native looking guy ever is also a fun bit of on-the-nose satire.
Darrach
2025-01-06 23:50:41 +0000 UTCAnd she has no Italian blood in her either!
Darrach
2025-01-06 22:19:03 +0000 UTCIN THIS HOUSE CRISTOPHER COLUMBUS IS A HERO. END OF STORY.
Michael M
2025-01-06 17:57:56 +0000 UTCI always thought it was Ironic the actress who was talking about Italians not being associated with organized crime is named Roma Maffia in real life.
JayFi
2025-01-06 17:45:56 +0000 UTC@Johnny Bxb I get it though, they're women so it's natural for them to be more upset watching women being hurt because that's who they identify with. I just wanted to point out that these people don't really care who they kill. Although I will say it does irk me when they get mad when a male character talks about how attractive a woman is but when women talk about how hot one of the men are they seem fine with it. I mean come on, everyone has conversations about how attractive someone is, doesnt' mean they're a piece of shit
BNJ
2025-01-06 17:27:23 +0000 UTC@Abacus I bet he was an anti-semite.
BNJ
2025-01-06 17:07:48 +0000 UTCI wanted to warn you two that there are some arguments in the Youtube comment sections lately for the recent episodes and they can get so heated that they stray into spoiler territory, so I'd stay away from them If I were the two of you. Some of them are from the same person as well.
IanJ
2025-01-06 16:00:40 +0000 UTCSilvio with the permanent frown on his face ☹️
Knot
2025-01-06 14:29:21 +0000 UTCDiscovering the Americas, whatever happened there
Abacus
2025-01-06 12:22:17 +0000 UTCHe also says "you want my opinion, you brought it on yourself with that girl". He's playing mediator. I agree with your point overall, but it's inaccurate to suggest Johnny wasn't critical of Ralph, or that he isn't overall more respectful to the women around him, even if that's not exactly going to win him the male ally of the year award.
Mark M
2025-01-06 10:16:20 +0000 UTCI have 0 doubts they’ll adore it
bondbond53
2025-01-06 08:46:22 +0000 UTCSocialist I think, yeah
Matty
2025-01-06 07:46:24 +0000 UTCHe was a gay commie, Howard Zinn?
Abacus
2025-01-06 07:44:25 +0000 UTC"I wouldn't mind sitting on my ass all day smoking mushrooms and collecting Patreon cheques"
Abacus
2025-01-06 07:40:30 +0000 UTCAJ was reading The People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn. We were assigned to read it in high school and it tells American history not through glorification and sentimentality, but through what different exploited groups experienced and suffered. Great book. 🇵🇸
Matty
2025-01-06 06:47:59 +0000 UTCTony’s rant at the end lol classic case of right message , wrong messenger
Johnny Bxb
2025-01-06 06:47:43 +0000 UTCExactly BNJ. All due respect but I really don’t understand the constant focus on women as if these guys aren’t murderers and scumbags to everyone they come across. I don’t wanna say too much but remember a certain civilian who gets killed by winghead and natural canopy? That was one of the most senseless murders in the entire show and they showed zero sympathy towards him after. “Somebody could have got hurt”. They used his death as a bonding moment between them to reconcile 😂 No thought towards the innocent man at all
Johnny Bxb
2025-01-06 06:42:45 +0000 UTCIn his Diario de a Bordo (Journal of the First Voyage), Columbus describes his initial impressions of the Indigenous peoples as docile and ripe for exploitation, stating, “With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.” This reveals his intent to dominate and exploit the populations he encountered. Las Casas, a Spanish priest and historian, wrote extensively in A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies about the atrocities committed under Columbus and subsequent Spanish governance. He detailed how Indigenous people were enslaved, brutally punished, and systematically exterminated, estimating that millions perished in the Caribbean due to these actions. Columbus initiated the transatlantic slave trade, forcibly capturing Indigenous people and sending them to Spain. In one instance, he sent 500 Arawak people to Europe as slaves, with many dying during the journey. He also established the encomienda system, effectively enslaving the Indigenous population for labor, leading to massive deaths. There are so much more but here are just a few of the things he did. For 2 of those I gave the source. His own journal, and a witness who wrote his actions. I’m not sure what the goal is here of defending him, but good luck.
Cole
2025-01-06 05:53:44 +0000 UTCOh and by the way. To avoid confusion. "The Spanish" and " Columbus" are not synonyms. So if you read "the Spanish" did so and so and you have no idea when or if Columbus was at all involved, don't try to use it as evidence against my original comment. I specifically said Columbus. Which includes anything he was actually apart of.
Angel
2025-01-06 05:49:58 +0000 UTCI have this to say. Send me sources. But actually I have a question too. His second example was "what he did in Haiti to the Arawaks...". What did he do exactly?
Angel
2025-01-06 05:40:13 +0000 UTCWhat do you have to say about the rest of the stuff he wrote?
Alberto Cruz
2025-01-06 05:25:50 +0000 UTCJweher, prove me wrong.
Angel
2025-01-06 04:40:04 +0000 UTCAre you roleplaying as a sopranos character or are you being fr?
jweher
2025-01-06 04:38:44 +0000 UTCLet's start small. Point me to where I can read about the crown getting upset about him repeatedly sending ships full of dead slaves. And it can't be people that died for reasons that can't be blamed on Columbus by the way. To me it sounds like you're painting the picture that he sent a bunch of dead slaves as some sick joke or something (correct me if I'm wrong). But ya I would love to read about these ships to begin with. I truly don't know where to find this info. So don't pull the typical "find it yourself" thing that so many people love to do. You know where the info is. Just point me there.
Angel
2025-01-06 04:38:08 +0000 UTCThere's so much terrible about Columbus that even people back then thought what he was doing was fucked up. Columbus himself wrote about what he was doing. The Spanish crown became upset with him for repeatedly sending ships full of dead enslaved people. What he did in Haiti to the Arawaks constitutes genocide as well. In A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies, published in 1552 by friar Bartolomé de las Casas, wrote "Thus husbands and wives were together only once every eight or nine months and when they meet they are so exhausted and depressed on both sides …they cease to procreate. As for the newly born, they died early because their mothers, overworked and famished, had no milk to nurse them, and for this reason, while I was in Cuba, 7,000 children died in three months. “Some mothers even drowned their babies from sheer desperation. In this way, husbands died in the mines, wives died at work, and children died from lack of milk …and in a short time this land which was so great, so powerful and fertile, was depopulated. My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature, and now I tremble as I write…” Fuck Christopher Columbus
Yarrow
2025-01-06 04:27:36 +0000 UTCok, based on your reactions i think you'll love mad men. i wasn't sure, but i think so.
Robert
2025-01-06 04:25:45 +0000 UTCAs you pointed out, this episode is really heavy-handed and over-the-top in its messaging. Usually the show is far more subtle in its messaging than this. Still, some really good elements in the B storylines in this episode.
Marcus Cato
2025-01-06 04:13:32 +0000 UTCA lot of the issues in this episode were also explored in a beautiful Macedonian movie from the 90s called Before the Rain. Not sure if that would be of interest to you, but I highly recommend it. Kind of a shame it isn't better known.
Marcus Cato
2025-01-06 04:10:55 +0000 UTCPoint me to your sources
Angel
2025-01-06 04:05:47 +0000 UTCHe definitely did. He enslaved, massacred, and destroyed Indigenous populations and their cultures through systemic violence and exploitation. That sounds pretty genocidal.
Cole
2025-01-06 04:04:26 +0000 UTCColumbus did not commit genocide.
Angel
2025-01-06 03:52:49 +0000 UTCHaven't finished the discussion yet to see if you knew the name/reference, but as you've now seen The Godfather, James Caan played Sonny Corleone in that film. He was not Italian and they revere that film
ryany
2025-01-06 03:34:43 +0000 UTCI think the thing with Janice was that she loved the thrill of being with Ralph behind Ro's back. She got a thrill from the sneaking around and she even mentioned it when Ralph was on the phone with Ro while they were together. Once he left Ro that thrill was gone and she wasn't excited anymore, I think that's all it was.
BNJ
2025-01-06 02:34:01 +0000 UTCHe was gay, Gary Cooper?
Alexander
2025-01-06 02:33:54 +0000 UTCLet's be honest, they really aren't sympathetic towards anyone they kill. If Ralph killed the bartender they wouldn't give a shit either. These aren't moral people, so when one of them demonstrates even a glimmer of morality it is amplified because we're not used to seeing it from them.
BNJ
2025-01-06 02:22:07 +0000 UTCThis episode has an infamous reputation among the Sopranos fanbase, some saying that it's the worst episode of season 4 and the whole series as whole. But for me personally, I love it. I do think growing up surrounded by identity politics and victim mentalities made me appreciate this episode much more. Tony's rant at the end is basically David Chase voicing his opinion on the issue, as he initially got a lot of complaints from Italian Americans when creating the show. Interestingly, despite its reputation among the fanbase, this episode produced the most popular memes that even someone who has never watched Sopranos before knew by osmosis ("It's Anti-Italian discrimination" and "In this house, Christopher Columbus was a hero!") As a side note, I watched The Sopranos with my sister and Johnny Sack is her favourite male character (alongside Junior). Definitely can't wait for the next episode where we can delve deeper into his character.
IanJ
2025-01-06 02:16:16 +0000 UTCInteresting fact: this is commonly regarded as the worst episode of the entire series, particularly for how heavy-handed it is. The show was always a bit preachy about the italian-american thing but never to THIS degree. It felt like I was watching an after-school special at times. I don't personally think it's THE worst (a hit for a hit in s1 is my vote) because of the plots outside of the christopher columbus thing. The bobby and janice subplots and the final scene in the car, which was basically what the episode was trying to work it's way to, were great. It showed to what degree tony really gave a shit about his image as an italian-american (which is some, but not to lunatic levels like some of the others) and basically what the writers thought of the whole ordeal with the self-esteem line.
Veya
2025-01-06 02:08:04 +0000 UTCLola doing the DiCaprio pointing meme when Carmela mentioned Milosevic got a giggle out of me
bondbond53
2025-01-06 01:56:36 +0000 UTC"But she was a whore, Tony" - Johnny Sack about the stripper Ralphie murdered. He was just as callous about her death as most of them, but great he treats his wife well. Bobby is the only real sympathetic one honestly, if we're taking a full view in regards to women.
Veya
2025-01-06 01:52:01 +0000 UTCFake!
Isaac
2025-01-06 01:20:36 +0000 UTCI think I vaguely remember them talking about the coin thing before
HenryM
2025-01-06 01:14:48 +0000 UTCI just started watching The Expanse and I noticed that the actress who played FBI Agent Deborah (Danielle) also played Detective Joe Miller's boss. I don't know if the girls made that connection.
Damien Fenton
2025-01-06 01:10:36 +0000 UTCNah, this is a first time insight into Serbian holidays lol
Isaac
2025-01-06 01:06:02 +0000 UTC
