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The Sopranos 4x02 Reaction

The Sopranos 4x02 Reaction

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The Joke of Ralphie is one of the most memorable (and important) joke of the show. Of course is not political correct but that make it more funny.

Diego Palma

“I feel like episodes like this don’t get praised enough.” You have no idea how right you are.

Thomas De Peña

Meadow should sign up for this course: Understanding Cognitive Dissonance 101.

Thomas Fahey

Your the best reactors and you think like me. Other people like "Friend request reviews" wouldn't laugh at the joke how Christopher said he was trying to say something positive since she was her friend by saying Adriannas friend had a nice ass. And they would nitpick at how Meadow ran out of the room, when she ran perfectly normal.

Varus

It’s funny tho because Jimmy was willing to stop the Howard plan TWICE and it was always Kim redoing it lol still not over my boy Howard

Ruben Welsh

At the end of the day it boils down to the fact that Tony cheats in Carmela, which happens to be their favorite character, so they hate him. It's not rational, and it is a bit hypocritical, which is ironically one of the main themes of the Sopranos: we are all hypocrites one way or the other. If Jimmy wasn't twice as bad as he is, but was an asshole to Kim, they would've hated him, I say this after years of watching them. And it's fine. Like I said, we are all hypocrites. It's funny because it's the main criticism the show makes about Carmela: her hypocrisy regarding Tony. She would be fine if Tony continued to be the same gangster he is if he was loyal to her and didn't have women on the side. Carmela never shows any problem towards the fact Tony is literally a sociopathic murderous criminal, but acts appalled that a gangster would have women on the side. The show criticizes the viewers that take a side with Carmela despite her profiting of the crimes comitting by her husband, the same way it mocks the rest of us that sympathize with the rest of these sociopaths despite all the sh*t they do. The whole show is basically a critique on the human condition.

Gaboxxy

I know Tony is a bad dude but so far I’d say he still has good qualities it’s like how Jimmys hypocrisy and lying and conning wasn’t judged heavily by you two nothing wrong with it but just wondering what makes Tony different

Ruben Welsh

The Papermill Playhouse, where Meadow was supposed to intern over the summer, is a theater in Millburn, NJ. It's classified as a regional theater, but because of its close proximity to New York City it is often viewed as a "feeder" for Broadway. Shows that are expected to be "big" on Broadway but aren't quite ready will often run at the Papermill for a season to work out the kinks and gauge the audience response. The other option is to go the "Off-Broadway" route, where they start in small theaters in NYC before being 'promoted' to Broadway. A "no show" job is a job where the person is on the payroll, but doesn't have to even show up to work. Tony has had a no show job for the whole series. In season two, when Tony's lawyer told him to show up to work to give the impression that he has a real job, his assigned office was filled with storage boxes because of how long it had been since he ever went into the office. A company can only have so many no show jobs, because they have to be able to justify it when their books are audited. If the person is on parole and their parole officer shows up at the job, they need to be able to give an excuse as to why they're not there. Any company only has so many field salesman and delivery drivers that aren't at the main location, so that's a hard limit on no show jobs. The highest ranking people get no show jobs. A "no work" job is a job where the person has to physically show up at the location, but doesn't have to do any actual work. Those are the people that we see sitting around on lawn chairs when we visit the construction sites. If anybody shows up and questions why they're not doing anything, they can just say that they're on a break or that they're the backup crew or the "on call in case of emergency" crew. A company can have a lot more no work jobs than no show jobs, so most mid-level people get these. Several other people already mentioned it in other comments, but Silvio is currently the "consigliere" of the family. The consigliere is specified as an advisor to the Boss, and (depending on how you judge things) is either the #2 or #3 person in authority. Paulie is a "caporegime" (Captain), which is generally regarded as being below the consigliere. Silvio would never be considered to fill in as the capo of Paulie's crew. But he would want the "proper" person to get the role. Patsy was a Made guy long before Christopher, and has already been shown to be in authority over him. He was one of the guys hazing Christopher after he was first Made. To promote Chris over him, without Chris having DONE anything to show he deserves it, is just bad management and Silvio can see it a mile away. As consigliere Silvio tried to make it go over smoothly at first, but when Tony wasn't receptive when he tried to explain the problems that were happening he bucked authority because he was angry and trying to make a point. The issue specific to this construction in this episode is that Tony is planning to embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars from this project. Maybe millions. So the small-time profits from stealing supplies from the job site (Fiber optic cable the first time, ceiling tiles the second time) is short-sighted. You might make $30,000 (which sure is a nice payday) but it attracts attention and may get the rest of the project shut down or investigated. And if that happens, the potential $10 million goes away. So Tony wants things to go smooth on-site, but Chris is too new (Or too stupid) to realize this. And after the first time, once Tony lays out the clear message, everybody else is too angry to listen to it.

JBK405

I actually kind of agree there but I separate Tony's interpersonal attitude from his actions as mob boss in my mind. I always felt like, especially early on, Tony's decisions would have been a lot more respected by his subordinates if he wasn't so mean all the time. So many times he had the opportunity to explain his reasoning to an aggrieved family member and instead he'd just say something to the effect of "I'm the boss, deal with it" - so I agree on the jacket. I also think if he actually explained himself to Richie about why selling along the garbage routes was a bad idea and provided a reasonable alternative, there may not have been as much beef there as well.

Mahni Alizadeh

That very gentle lullaby playing over the credits is Kid A by Radiohead who make some very beautiful music that is completely devoid of intellectual clarity..or like Tony said: "I knew all this constant harping on art was gonna cause trouble"

Ben G

Yeah of course Chrissy isn’t gonna actually shoot but still, requires a certain level of fearlessness to not pause at the sight of a gun barrel aimed at you

Darrach

Agreed. His guilt lies in how seductive the mob lifestyle is. It sends a mixed message. It's one thing to tell a child that they should work far harder for far less money, but that message isn't going to stick when he sees people in the life rolling in money.

Marcus Cato

Infighting within the Mafia wasn’t at all uncommon. These guys after all are competing with each other for power but most importantly money. You have their business constantly overlapping with one another and on top of that they’re sociopathic killers when they have to be as well. A bosses job is to keep everyone in line and keep the heat off the family so everyone can keep earning. Of course though the bosses are human and they were extremely self interested so it didn’t always run smoothly.

Alberto Cruz

Patsy is definitely one of the hardest characters in the show but he’s a made guy and knows Chrissy shooting him is an automatic death sentence. He saw a kid unsure of himself as a leader and walked all over Chris this episode.

Alberto Cruz

The casual attitude all of these people have towards life, death and loss is absolutely bonkers. These are guys who constantly talk about how much family means to them, but you really get the impression that none of them could give a shit about any of the others The way Tony and Sil discuss Patsy with the line “you wanted to have him killed last year”, like they were planning on just firing him from his job or something. It was also quite telling the way Carmela spoke about the prospect of Paulie and Sil taking care of her if Tony were to disappear. She clearly understood that it would be a disaster. Just look at any of the funerals they go to. They really don’t care about anybody else

windyMelon

Even though it's a brutal moment, the bit when Patsy whacks the black guy in the head with the pipe never fails to make me laugh due to one of the greatest unexpected references in the whole show: "who are you, Ralph Bunche ova here?", it's just such a hilarious line for a rough gangster to say. For anyone unfamiliar, Ralph Bunche was a black American who was a political mediator and won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Abacus

The "Mr Mob Boss" argument in Meadow's room is one in a great chain of (mostly) one-on-one scenes which define the progression of their relationship and how she understands and relates to her father. Up to this point, key scenes like: "They built this place. They didn't design it, but they knew how to build it" (in church, 1x01) "Dad, are you in the Mafia?" 1x05 "I didn't hurt nobody" (with Meadow silently watching drunk Tony from above) 1x09 "A man made a bet, he lost. He made another bet, he lost again" 2x06 "We're all hypocrites sometimes" & "You're all me. Nothing gets by you" 2x10

Abacus

Saw this TikTok a while ago and now seems to be the right time to share it https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdBR6ub1/

Darrach

Chris pulled a gun on Patsy and without missing a beat, he picked up an iron pipe and was ready to go, spitting and swearing, not an ounce of fear or hesitation. Much like we saw last season, Patsy has such a believable ruthlessness in his demeanour, he’s a scumbag like the rest of them but man, what a spitfire he is.

Darrach

Paulie is outraged to hear about the 98 pound mole joke about Ginny Sack, however last season he was making the exact same weight jokes about her lol. A subtle touch, but if you look at Ralph when Chris is announced as acting captain, he smiles and congratulates him, until Chris looks away from him and his smile instantly drops. I have to assume that’s a deliberate touch in a show with so many micro-expressions to pick up on. I think there is more to Silvios moves this episode than just correcting the proper order of things. First, Silvio is the second-in-command of this whole structure, as he is Consigliere (advisor) to Tony, so becoming captain of Paulies crew is a step down for him personally. Patsy meanwhile does feel passed over, and he is right to, because that is essentially what has happened. Silvio in allowing Patsy to steal the tiles, settled his ego and allowed the situation to resolve without any serious repercussions by taking the blame. He knew Tony would not be so outraged as to punish him severely. So Silvio in reality played a very clever game and kept the crew together, as opposed to letting tensions spike too high. Dr Wendi Kobler is certainly ‘interesting’ as the girls said, but you can go as far to say she does not come across appropriately, especially for a first meeting. As discussed in Sopranos Autopsy, a great post-show companion piece, there are real-life psychiatrists who found Kobler’s methods to be off, including Dr. Joel Whitebook, who had this to say: “Totally devoid of therapeutic skepticism and humility, she postures as if she has all the answers. Kobler immediately tells Meadow what to do about Columbia and Europe, despite the fact she hardly knows her.” I do think Meadow is legitimately depressed however, but not for specifically Jackie Jr, and more due to the cognitive disssonance she is experiencing as being a mob daughter, as we saw in the season 3 finale. The scene in Meadows bedroom is fantastic and Tony and Meadow is the heart of the exchange, however it’s worth paying attention to Carmela here too. Her face and silence during their fight shows where her head is at, same as the final scene in the bathroom. The line “take the children, what’s left of them, and go” must be echoing through her mind, and now we see the cost of her not doing that when she was told. Her complicity is to blame for this path for her daughter and she knows it. She can’t say this to Tony of course, and so we get no answer to his question at the end.

Darrach

Emily St. James said of The Sopranos in the post 9/11 era: “the attacks neatly cleave the series in two. Creator David Chase’s plan was likely always to have a long, slow build of the good times getting ever better, even as those good times had the taste of ashes at their core, followed by a long decline, a slow malaise that gives way to self-destruction” As Carmela said last episode, “everything comes to an end”. There definitely is a shift in the show that makes things feel like we are now in the downturn, both in the family and the ‘famiglia’.

Darrach

Movie reactions, another fucking money machine!

Darrach

"I was trying to say something positive because she's your friend" is such a funny line. Great discussion. Tony is definitely noticeably colder this season. He's not emotionless but he is able to separate himself from his emotions and people he once cared about much easier than most of us could or would even want to. We saw it with Pussy, Jackie Jr, and we're seeing it with Chris. Also totally agree on Adriana. She's kind of like Bobby. Yes they're complicit but they were born into it like everyone else. They're uncomplicated nice people that aren't trying to hurt or be calculative, like you said.

Mark M

Luigi Mangione is a fucking hero! No one can convince me otherwise.

Robert H.

Maybe I'm biased because Richie is my favourite villain, but I always see the jacket as his olive branch for Tony (It's an ugly jacket, but that's beside the point). Their relationship was getting better at that point, he looks genuinely hurt when he found out Tony gave it away, and sure enough he starts selling coke on the garbage routes afterwards.

IanJ

This was the first time she was actually scared of him. In season it was about being in the mob. This scene she actually met mobster Tony.

Edward Lewis

Yeah, this is my understanding as well.

Farbod

Reacting to TV shows... lotta money in this shit

Abacus

I always had a different read of what Sil did. I thought the point was that Tony passing over the more senior Patsy for Chris to act as capo while Paulie is away caused Patsy to be pissed off. Sil made a call about the truck of tiles to give Patsy something extra to improve the morale of an important worker, to make up for the favoritism Tony shows to Chris. Sil took the heat for it, because he and Tony are very close and he knows he can handle Tony being pissed off at him. The mini face-off they have at the end is about Sil assuring Tony that he's still loyal to him, while still standing by his decision to subvert Tony's rule and give Patsy a bonus job.

Abacus

Am I the only one who thinks Jackie Jr. wasn’t really Tony’s responsibility? How much more was he supposed to try and get him to stay away? In the end it was Ralphie who brought him down and gave him delusions, gave him a gun, etc. Not to say Tony is without fault, but I don’t think he was the primary cause of Jackie Jr.’s downfall. And I do think there is a small part of him that cares and feels guilt. But he can’t process it healthily and takes no accountability for his role in things.

Mahni Alizadeh

I mean I’m not keen on defending Tony but what was he supposed to do regarding Richie or Jackie Jr.? Richie was a loose canon trying to move against him (plus he didn’t even really kill him) and Jackie Jr. wasn’t really his responsibility. He may not have cared as much as he should have but in his position Jackie had to go after what he did. Jackie Jr.’s downfall was on Ralph more than anyone else imo.

Mahni Alizadeh

That's really tough. And they wonder why people sympathize with Luigi Mangione.

IanJ

No show jobs and business with the unions is thoroughly explained if you watch “Goodfellas” Although I recommend watching it in after season 4

Running red

Yeah in additional to the oscillation, a key to really understand his character is to remember what his view of masculinity is. "The strong, silent type". Are traditional men supposed to care and gab about personal problems? They or at least Lola read his dismissal of Gloria's venting as indifference but it seems like the answer is right there (in addition to his emotional immaturity). It's also why he doesn't speak honestly to Carmela about his OR her day. Of course the irony in all this is that he goes to therapy himself and it's a big part of the show.

Veya

I don't want to make it sound like I'm against counseling and mental health, I'm not. I think being able to talk to someone about your troubles is important, be it a family member, a friend, or a professional. My issue is that a lot of these psychiatrists just want to push psych meds on people instead of actually listening and trying to get to the root of the issues. I think many of them get kickbacks from these pharmaceutical companies.

BNJ

Words of wisdom, my friend.

Marcus Cato

Second time, he outright shouted at her and called her out for her moral high ground in second season after she wouldn't accept Eric's car. But back then she folded very fast as well. So yeah, basically the same thing as pointed out by you and LM, she's afraid of actually confronting her father. He even threw the ball in her court ("you try me"), well that was her chance, but she chose to not to pursue it.

Veya

Excellent point. I think there is a small contingent of the psychiatric profession that is starting to realize this. I know one example of one author that started his career in psychopharmacology and has become deeply skeptical in recent years. Drug therapy doesn't seem to be as effective as other forms of therapy such as CBT. Obvious there are some conditions for which drugs are indespensible, but the tide seems to be turning on using medications for basic mood regulation. How this will all play out is anybody's guess. Sorry for the screed. This topic is kind of my hobbyhorse. 😂

Marcus Cato

Also the choice of class Meadow chose to take can still imply somewhat of a rebelling, even if it's not as overt as running away. With a subject like 'Morality, Self, and Society' there's no way that doesn't brush up against her existing conflict. Tony is getting more careless and self-centered, which is a new avenue, implied by the economy mentioned in the first episode. We're seeing a side of him that has money trouble for the first time in the show. There was no "test" like this in the first three seasons, things were genuinely going well, business wise.

Veya

I think Tony wildly oscillates between feeling things too intensely and sometimes feeling irritated that he has to take other peoples' feelings into account. It's such a complex portrayal of an emotionally disturbed person.

Marcus Cato

They certainly have morality issues of their own in the Sopranos universe.

Marcus Cato

So I'll cover the whole issue with Silvio. Silvio is in the position of consigliere, which is basically #2 to the boss, or the right hand man of the boss. Tony made Chris the head of their biggest construction project because he's blood family and is grooming him to take over as boss (as it stands in Tony's planning). Silvio feels subverted and threatened by it, so when Patsy tells him about the tiles he says go ahead I have your back. When Tony has the face to face with Silvio about going against his orders, Tony tells him they go way back and he's not going to punish him or whack him. Tony said if you're trying to "feel" the situation, "it's not like that"... as in I'm not trying to get rid of you. Silvio is defending himself to see tony's reaction, who already garnered the backing of patsy perhaps in case they have to create a split and Silvio seeks infighting to take Tony's place.

Robert

This was a great episode with moving the storylines forward, but in my opinion the most important thing to happen was Meadow seeing her "real" father for the first time. After she challenged him, he took the mask off just long enough to scare her and to understand the real situation.

Edward Lewis

An important difference, Tony was already DIRECTLY exposed to mob violence by the time he hit college, as a younger kid than AJ and his father called him brave for it. Meadow's first real brush with it came when she is already in college. AJ has not to date been exposed to ANY mob violence. And yeah, Adriana and Carmela, in addition to the observation about Adriana, we KNOW Carmela was less integrated in the mob. She still was, Chris's father last episode was mentioned as a legend and they're related, but her own mother tried to get her to marry someone outside as mentioned last season. So there is a bit more of a push and pull, and how much her own selfishness brushes up against her guilt.

Veya

Even during my first watch I'm always shocked at how many times the Aprile family get the short end of the stick. This is the family of the previous acting boss and the patriarch was Tony's closest friend in the whole world. Really shows how hollow their supposed mob "family" bond is.

IanJ

I distinctly remember Lola saying something about Carmela trying to cheat with someone from Tony's crew in an earlier discussion. Well guess what, she got what she wished for lol. Back in season 3, it was Paulie who started the jokes about Ginny Sack's weight. Now, after not getting what he wants from Tony and his newfound relationship with Johnny, he found the weight jokes tasteless.

IanJ

She doesn't show the same self-reflection Carmela and Meadow do. It's a deliberate contrast. She feels far more child-like than either of them.

Veya

Hey everyone, I know it’s a New Year and I don’t mean to start it off here with something negative I just want to remind all of you who are going back to work that your job is not your family. I don’t think anyone needs this reminder, but as we enter the new year, think about how much you are putting into your work vs putting into yourself. I’m not saying don’t do your job, but remember that what you have with your employer is a transaction, not a benevolent gift from them. They need work done, you are being paid to do it, you don’t owe them anything else. Do not prioritize your job over your mental or physical health. Being a go-getter means nothing if they don’t realize you’ve been dead at your cubicle for four days. The reason I’m producing this word-vomit is at my work we just had a mass firing on Christmas and the 26th. While I still have my job, a couple hundred people I know don’t. If anyone cares to know the reasoning, during June last year the company announced that we were going to fall short of the $ amount they expected to make by the end of the year. We were $26 million short (we were projected to make about $5 billion). They assured us that no one’s jobs were in danger over this, but encouraged us to work harder. We closed the gap by almost $10 million, meaning the company ended the year short of $17 million of its $5 billion goal. On Christmas Eve and Day, they fired over 20% of our employees due to the shortage. It also came out that they have known the names of the people they were going to fire almost six months ago, and they gave no warning. On the 24th our CEO blindsided two people from HR and put them in charge of calling the impacted employees to let them know they’ve been terminated over the next two days, and then they let go of those two HR ladies on the 26th. What’s more is that every employee within four years of retirement has also been let go, likely to avoid paying retirement benefits in the near future. It’s much more difficult for them as, like Tina in that episode of the Bear, hiring standards are much different and places do not like hiring older people. The excuse for the timing of the terminations is so that the people affected can be with their families. The truth is they didn’t want to impact productivity during the election and the holidays, and our fiscal year ends the 31st so they don’t owe them bonuses either. This is after the company threw a huge holiday party as well as a Vegas retreat for its three executives as well. I’m sorry again to be negative here, but I just want to remind people that, as much as HR wants you to believe, your life is not tied to your company or their “culture.” Don’t neuter your own health, memories, and experiences for the sake of some finance-bro’s profit-margin. Enjoy the new year on your own terms, not your employers.

My Toasty Toast

that part yeah i think it makes sense he's worried about his position with respect to Chrissy's current trajectory

Mahni Alizadeh

That's true, but with Chris rising so fast and passing over so many people, it has Silvio wondering how close Chris is to getting his position. That's why Tony told him "If you're trying to read me... That's not how it is". In The Wire, season 3, Avon pretty much gave Stringer's job to Slim Charles. Keeping the #2 position isn't guaranteed.

Michael Chavira

I don't think it is actually. I think the show has given us indications that has subtly run against that. It's been said before but taking things like the therapy sessions too much at face value and how Tony says things at face value means the big picture is going to be missed. Combine everything we've seen up until this point, from season 1 episode 1 all the way to this episode and you can actually get a decent idea of it if you remember ALL things, big and small. Like it's telling she thought Tony felt nothing about the detective when it showed him visiting a bridge at the end. Even with Jackie Jr. and Gloria, I think an aspect of his character is missed if one thinks he feels nothing towards them, despite the way he acts.

Veya

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would say Silvio's role is the same as Stringer to Avon, so I don't think he has to be worrying about being captain of a crew.

Mahni Alizadeh

I love that final shot with Carmela and Tony in the bathroom, the gap between them like something out of a painting

mundanelotus

The therapists immediately recommending anti-depressants for Meadow is so perfect. Fucking pill pushers. Sometimes people just need to mourn without being drugged up.

BNJ

I feel for her more than I feel for Carmela, that's for sure.

BNJ

Sil is Tony's number two. Chris just got promoted to take Paulie's place while he was in prison.. Patsy is part of Paulie's crew, so he was thinking he'd be the one to lead it if Paulie were gone. Tony just said naaa, and put Chris in his place instead

windyMelon

It’s still early days with Bobby’s story. We will get there lol

Johnny Bxb

Ralphie killing Rosalie’s son and then cheating on her with Janice (who killed her brother in law) is such a perfect little microcosm of the realities of mob family life. Secrets and lies and death (The Aprile’s are also related to Adriana) I think Meadow is angry at Carmela because of her normalization of the tragedy of mob life. She gave up on Tony being honest with her 5 episodes into season 1 so she’s not as angry at him There was a great shot at the end of last season, Janice was staring longingly at Meadow as she ran off, telling the kids watching on to come back inside with the family. Janice ran away from family but she’s back where she started

space colon

36:40 "It feels like Tony is cosplaying somebody who has emotions" is particularly good insight, imo. I feel the same way.

Michael M

Give it time

Darrach

"No show" jobs are when somebody gets a paycheck on the books of a company, but doesn't have to physically be there. "No work" jobs are when they get the paycheck for doing no work, but still have to physically be at the job. It's a way for mafia guys to be earning a legitimate income on paper, while skimming money from construction projects etc

The Josh

Poor Bobby doesn't make your favorite characters list. For shame :)

Michael M

last thing from me because I haven't watched the reaction yet, but the FBI really pissed me off this episode. Using mob tactics on Adrianna and obviously not caring about her at all.

Mahni Alizadeh

also, happy new year to both of you!

Mahni Alizadeh

It makes sense Lola feels attached to Chris because he's as close to "baby boy" as you're gonna get in this show

Mahni Alizadeh

I know that Adriana is knowingly benefitting from Chris's illegal activities but you'd have to have a heart of stone to not feel sorry for her. Drea de Matteo is such a good actor.

Damien Fenton


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