The Wire 5x04 Reaction

Dude, c'mon.

Michael M

The difference between Rawls and Burrell is that Rawls has shown signs that he's "real police". He knew about the signs being turned in Season 1 after Kima is shot. He respects Lester's efforts on going after the money, etc. He just plays the game differently. He knows doing what's right will not advance his career and letting anyone underneath him play the game for themselves will make him look bad (ie Jimmy and Bunny). Landsman is the same way. He considers his career above all else but he also values actual effort within the homicide unit. Jay has shown a few times that he also really knows his stuff as a detective. They may have once been like Jimmy but learned that there's no use fighting the system.

Blood Raven

For me the difference between Rawls and Burrell is pretty minimal. At the end of the day Rawls is much more interested in doing what is best for his career and what the superiors tell him to, and has quite often made choices to the detriment of actual work in the department out of pure pettiness. I also can't help but think of the glee with which he had everyone start committing mass arrests in Hamsterdam. He was blasting music like it was a theme song while officers were beating and arresting people all around him, and this was after he admitted to Bunny that he actually thought his idea was brilliant. That said, Rawls has had more human moments than Burrell for sure. So I guess I'd say he is marginally better.

cosmotron

Joe wasn't dumb, he was afraid of Marlo. All that showing him how to hide his money, finding him a lawyer, all that stuff was because Joe thought keeping Marlo close would endear himself to Marlo enough that Marlo wouldn't be a threat. People usually treat threats 1 of two ways: distance or get close to them. He chose the "get close" because he thought there was some humanity in him, and creating a bond would soften Marlo to him. Joe doesn't realize Marlo is a psychopath. Avon is the only person that has shown they truly understand Marlo. There is no reasoning with him. You have to terminate him.

M Salam

Pretty sure they thought Kenard was Bug in that opening scene 😂

David

@Nina you totally delivered with the high IQ answer!

TeaDrinker3000

I'm interested in hearing from the other patrons if y'all are still peeping the comments: I think most of us would agree that Burrell is considerably worse than Daniels, but how do you think he compares to Rawls? I find myself a bit too biased in favour of Rawls because he was such a pivotal character in the first 2 seasons, and from my point of view he does seem to genuinely give a shit about the department (and law enforcement in general) that I think I'm a bit too forgiving of his transgressions. He's no Clay Davis, but he sure as shit ain't Daniels neither. So, I'm curious to find out if other people here think he's on the same level as Burrell, or if he's better or worse.

TeaDrinker3000

"The fact that the wire remains timeless is just as much a condemnation of the US as it is a testament to the show’s writing" they should literally have this on the back-cover of the box set for the show. You probably summed up the show with that one sentence.

TeaDrinker3000

See, I considered that, but it really didn't play that way in the moment to me. I feel like that's something Herc would say. Like, if Carver had started in with "You know that kid from last year you were supposed to take to Bunk?" And Herc had replied with "Yeah, what's-his -face." And Carver sort of clenches his jaw or is clearly irritated and corrects him with "Randy." And then the conversation would be able to continue basically the same as it is in the show, but it would feel a little more in line with how much the Randy situation affected Carver. At least in my opinion.

cosmotron

One small point, I don't think Carver actually forgot Randy's name. I've always felt he was playing it up because he figured Herc wouldn't remember or care. That is admittedly pure speculation on my part though.

prolifik5

Yeah, Daniels not being different from guys like Burrell or Rawls is a pretty wild take.

prolifik5

I do love it in rewatches being able to pinpoint some of the scenes where people like Daniels and (especially) Bunny did or said something that you can tell Carver took to heart or it at least made think a bit. Even McNulty, Kima, Lester, and Cutty contribute a little bit too. Little positive things can impact people, even if not instantly.

Craig Manning

Yep, that might be my least favorite thing about the season, at least how it all went down. Joe went from being a pretty savvy, smart dude to a dumdum. And the Greek is just fine with handing it all over to this new guy when he's been dealing with Joe for literally years and no problems (the shipment got robbed that once but I'm pretty sure the Greeks still got paid). Anyway, like @chadi. mentions, the season was a constricted as a whole so I'd think this is area they would have fleshed out more if given a couple more episodes.

Craig Manning

Agree, I don't understand what Daniels has done to be lumped in as just another part of the problem, other than the position he's in. We've watched how he got there and it was pretty much the right way. Yes, he's compromised at times rather than fight a losing battle and he's ambitious (often pushed by his significant other) but I'd rather have a dozen of him at the top of the chain of command than anyone else we've seen close to it (ok, unless there were a dozen Bunny Colvins but he's quite an exceptional character)

Craig Manning

I think earlier season Burrell isn't as fresh in their mind since he's basically only been finally getting the consequences of his actions for the last few episodes and not actively being evil, he wasn't just part of a bad system where he had to eat shit like he tries to claim in this episode but was actively corrupt and ruined investigations out of spite and eventually shut down the entire Barksdale investigation just because it involved Clay Davis' Aide. Him and Rawls also fucked over Bunny as much as possible, ruined his retirement, violated his contract, threatened to ruin the career of everyone under him etc etc I think Burrell is MUCH worse regularly than Daniels is at his worst, which was season 1 where he admittedly was trying to climb rank. He's climbed in rank the last 2 seasons but not due to underhanded tactics or a greedy attempt for more power it's kind of just falling into his lap

HeavenlyR

Spoiler in there, Mike.

Chidi.

There are a few things this season which would have normally taken two episodes to conclude but due to the shorter length this season they get wrapped up more quickly.

Chidi.

Instead of Joe telling Stringer to "call off his dog [Avon]" he should have let Avon handle that situation. As Wee-Bay said, "back in the day when a punk like Marlo steps out, breaking the rules and shit, he'd find himself in the back of a car trunk on the way to Leakin Park." Nip the problem in the bud before it grows. Instead, Joe brought his problem in front of his connect. Joe's downfall was entirely of his own making.

Chidi.

its jarring how casually the carcetti admin agrees to relinquish 500 public housing units and how austerity measures always target the most essential public services. immediately reminded of nyc’s recent budget cuts that include a $1 billion cut to the education dept and closing libraries on sundays. the fact that the wire remains timeless is just as much a condemnation of the US as it is a testament to the show’s writing

Sebastian

Carver's character growth brings tears to my eyes man. From fucking with people in the projects at 2 am to charging his guys. It all matters, he grew so much. Personal growth is possible, no one is far gone.

Karabo

Lol some of the things you guys discuss. It shows that you truy understand the shows you consume. Same thing happened with AOT. Once Lola and Milena understand the core of a show, they cook some great predictions because they understand story and charater. Bravo!

Karabo

Damn, I really feel that with the context of what is happening right now

Karabo

Avon was right. The co-op tried to civilize the game, which is fine if everyone is in agreement. Marlo is from the old school but with new school visciousness.

Karabo

That was definitely Johnny 50 from season 2. Pretty sad how that turned out considering Frank died trying to keep them all employed.

Twon

Mike

He literally said in the previous episode "it aint easy civilizing this motherfucker", that wasn't just about teaching him what the fuck a bank is, it was an attempt at curbing his violent side so he'd stop going at everyone else. Prop Joe was always about cooperation but that wasn't purely because he wanted everyone to profit, he was well aware that he had access to the best dope in the city and instead of letting that turn him into a target, he offered it up to everyone else so it would become protection. Trying to civilize Marlo is the same idea, he didn't actually care about Marlo's well being, he wanted to be in his good graces. I'd love anyone that called him "naive" to give a better plan on how to go at Marlo, and don't even start with "just kill him", it's well established that he has the strongest "army" in the city, it's just not that easy. Nobody in the coop is interested in starting a war and putting a target on themselves, the destruction of it by Marlo was always going to be inevitable.

Nina

The whole Joe/Marlo thing was rushed, in my opinion. They dropped the ball a bit in that regard. However, the politics is more compelling now than it has been in the entire show.

Aj

I know some people in the fanbase think that Joe was written too stupid here, but I just think Joe was doing everything he could to avoid Marlo having him killed. Joe’s manipulative skill set doesn’t really work with someone as single minded as Marlo.

Eric Posin

"Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil" Isn't that the truth. That hits hard considering current events...

Lil Don075

Just a disclaimer this was before they started the new show so idk where it is exactly in the schedule

Salvatore

Poor Joe. Way too trusting and naive for his own good. Omar's on the hunt again and it's good to see him back tbh. When I first watched this I was just glad to have someone else on Marlo's case along with McNulty and Lester. Worth also reminding ourselves that Omar's accomplice (Donnie) was the "real-life Omar" - an armed robber who robbed drug dealers. He also allegedly jumped out of a sixth-floor window to escape an ambush. So if you had two options which would you prefer?: 1. Marlo ends up in jail but Chris, Snoop, and Clay Davis walk free. 2. A happy ending for Michael and Dukie but Bubs relapses and never escapes the cycle of drug abuse. PS: Daniels over Burrell every day of the week! Really looking forward to see how you react to the next episode.

Chidi.

I don't agree that Daniels is no different to Burrell. He's done a lot of good things over the course of the show, while Burrell has always been stat and career minded first and foremost. Daniels has compromised at times but that doesn't mean they're the same just because he's climbing the ladder. As much as the show is about the cycle turning and new characters taking up old roles, I don't think it's fair to just assume the worst about everyone. Marlo is the 'new Avon' but they're very different. Anyway I'm being defensive just because I like Daniels lmao.

Mark M

thu- the wire fri- hh sat- violet sun- the wire mon- hh

Salvatore

Marlo has done a lot of callous things but the stone cold way he did Prop Joe tops the list. I mean he literally played nice with Joe so he could get him to show him all his business tricks (laundering money, getting clean bills, introducing him to Levy etc) just before he killed him. He took what he needed from Joe and then just disposed of him like a piece of litter. Absolutely ruthless.

David

“I wasn’t made to play the son” 😈

Thomas

can someone tell me the schedule im lost here

V

Only slightly ahead of you guys (seen through 5x05), but despite a few pacing issues and some small moments feeling off (like how quickly Lester was convinced last episode) I've really been enjoying the season so far. That Prop Joe and Marlo conversation...while I wouldn't generally call Marlo "complex", I do think the way he interacts with Joe here is interesting. Usually when we've seen him kill it's been in anger to some degree, like the security guard or the girl who was giving information on him. Otherwise it was Chris and Snoop doing his dirty work for the sake of "the game". Here he isn't angry. You could almost say he did his best to give Joe comfort, and there seemed to be an element of...maybe not respect, but like he realized he had in fact learned some things from Joe and wanted to acknowledge it in the way he has Joe killed. At the same time, it also feels like Marlo gloating - watching Joe be at his mercy and enjoying it. I don't know, it felt like more than one thing being conveyed at once, and I thought it was interesting. EDIT: Also, as satisfying as it is to see Carver taking a stand here, I wish he'd been planning to do it anyway before the officer continued to be belligerent. I also genuinely got a little upset at the implication that he's forgotten Randy's name. He was at a point where he was offering to foster Randy, forgetting his name doesn't feel right. On top of that, I kind of wish it was shown to have effected his relationship with Herc more, like maybe having their relationship be very strained or even completely on the outs. IDK, he's certainly developed as a character but it feels like pretty small changes to him overall, and it's often left me wanting to see more from it. Kind of like how I wished that the kid Prez blinded had been a part of his arc, but at least with Prez you get a lot more of him self-reflecting and you see how his growth impacts the relationships he has with the officers he used to work with. EDIT 2: Okay, last thing. Generally the writing on this show is really really good, but I have noticed a certain repetitiveness to particular storylines. Some repitition makes sense thematically ("shit never changes" and all that). But others stand out. Take for example how every season seems to end with the Major Crimes unit getting a victory and seeming to be closing in on something big...only for the next season to start with the unit being stopped in some way, even though if they "just had a little more time" they'd bring the case in. The other one that stands out is with Omar. It feels like every season there's someone who tricks him into thinking another person is out to kill him/killed his loved ones. Only for Omar to confront this person at gunpoint and realize "oh wait, I'm being set up". Like...it's happened enough you'd think he'd have learned by now, especially considering what he knows of Marlo vs Joe. It doesn't make me enjoy the show less, but it is rather noticeable, especially when watching the show through all at once.

cosmotron

I wanted to upload this after the previous episode's discussion: (contains minor spoilers for the Attack on Titan finale) https://tinypic.host/image/HxRcx

Doug

lowkey not ready for these discussions about fake news

space colon

Prop Joe was naive...thats why he died!

Alwyn Smith