Midnight Mass Episode 4 Reaction
Added 2023-05-30 23:48:07 +0000 UTC
Comments
which one?
leonthesleepy
2023-06-19 19:32:00 +0000 UTCIt's essentially the creator taking pot shots at faith and people's beliefs via his fictional stand-in.
Aj
2023-06-09 01:12:13 +0000 UTCwell, i was gong to leave a long comment now that i finally had the time to finish watching the discussion but seeing the state of the comments i think that i'm okay lol
sand_fl
2023-06-01 11:20:24 +0000 UTCThey were talking and mourning the death of Erin's baby. Situations like that would cause a little ruminating about the nature of life and death and afterlife. And most people don't talk like characters on TV do, it's a stylistic choice. Midnight Mass and True Detective go for more theatrical styles, while The Wire goes for very direct, punchy dialogue. And then there's your action movie/MCU-style, which is not to my taste, but is also a choice the writer makes to convey a tone.
Mo
2023-06-01 01:02:33 +0000 UTCPeople don't just break into soliloquies about death and the afterlife. If someone were to do that I would probably end up running myself over with their car... Waitaminute, is alcoholism a metaphor for "Reddit" in this show?
Orr Malus
2023-06-01 00:23:50 +0000 UTCHard agree with Mo. I think viewing Riley as nothing more than an author stand-in, rather than one character out of many with specific reasons for why he thinks and acts the way he does, leads to less understanding of the story rather than more.
Squidward's Grumpier Cousin
2023-05-31 23:37:46 +0000 UTCNothing about that scene is surface level imo. Through talking about death they are actually talking about their most desperate wish. Riley wishes for non-existence, because he cannot fathom a world where he forgives himself, and for his body to be used by nature, because he cannot imagine his soul as being worth anything. Erin meanwhile wishes for a return to the loving embrace of the people she loves that will replace her crushing solitude. Also I disagree that we are meant to come away from this scene thinking Riley is "right". His lack of faith is shown as a symptom of his self hatred and *never* framed in positive manner, as opposed to Erin,his mom and Hassan and how their relationship with faith is portrayed. I don't know what the creator has said in interviews but the work itself is decidedly not an indictment of faith, just of the mindless fanatic kind of faith.
Squidward's Grumpier Cousin
2023-05-31 23:10:50 +0000 UTCI'm not arguing that Riley isn't meant to be a stand-in for the author's views (he's also one for the author's fears when he was drinking. That he might hurt someone) I'm arguing that the story isn't about Riley. He's a viewpoint character, but he's not the center of the narrative. That's not what I mean by stranger. Moses calls himself a stranger not only because he left his homeland (after killing someone), but because he never felt like a true part of the land of Egypt. His alienation can be felt by all Jews in diaspora, you are among the people of the land, but you aren't truly one of them. How true it is is up to the individual, but It's a fear carried by most people, I suspect. The line also comes right before Moses is called by God to return to Egypt and deliver his people. Riley questioning is how we got to the ending scene of the episode in the first place. He refused to go along with the lie that Joe went to see his sister. And he's very involved in Joe, Paul and Erin's lives. People who are friends (or a priest and parishioner) talk and share their feelings with each other. The dialogue style is not everyone's thing, I get that, but the things communicated aren't coming from nowhere.
Mo
2023-05-31 22:44:14 +0000 UTCI just don't think it's particularly well-done, that's all there is to it. My issue isn't the things they discuss, per se, it's how they are handled. Like I said, there's plenty of other media out there that tackle similar themes and do it with a lot more tact and subtlety. If it resonated with people because of its subject matter, then fair enough, but that doesn't mean I think it's particularly good. The reason why I mentioned DMT is that it tries to ingratiate itself with the average Joe viewer by mentioning something they might have heard online once. It has that sort of surface-level appeal.
Aj
2023-05-31 22:20:23 +0000 UTCMost stories have a character who is essentially the avatar of the audience meant to learn about the plot and characters at the same rate the audience does (best example is Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks). You can't make that case for Riley because he is the self-insert of the author and meant to represent the perspective of the author and not the audience. Furthermore he's not a stranger but an all knowledgeable character: he's familiar with every other character on the island and interested in none of them. Riley asks no questions, he just sits there passively as other characters start pouring their hearts to him for no reason whatsoever.
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 22:02:12 +0000 UTCI'd actually argue that Riley isn't the protagonist of the series (it's about the island as a whole), but rather a vehicle for us to see the island from the point of view of someone who is essentially unfamiliar with it. A stranger in a strange land, if you will. To say more would get into spoilers though.
Mo
2023-05-31 20:33:32 +0000 UTCI mean, you can interpret it however you want. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fine. But that’s not what I got from the scene at all. Riley isn’t dismissive of Erin’s beliefs. He doesn’t tell her she’s wrong or foolish. He prays with her. He tells her he hopes she’s right about her view of the afterlife, even if it’s not what he believes. I really don’t get the impression at all that the show is portraying Riley as someone who is always right or enlightened and that the town is backwards. We are meant to understand why they are being taken in by Father Paul and what he’s doing. Characters like Erin and Riley’s mom, not to mention Hassan, are all examples of people who are religious and are being portrayed as kind and intelligent, and not remotely foolish for believing what they do. Hell, there are plenty of people who don’t know your brain floods with DMT when you die. And yeah, I feel similarly to Riley about death so you can say I’m biased, but I really liked what he said and found it very lovely. And I think it was a nice moment of him explaining to Erin. I’ve had a lot of very religious people in my life not understand how I can’t believe in heaven (or even outright ask me how I have morality if I don’t). And having Riley explain his perspective to Erin, articulating feelings and thoughts I’ve had, felt very real. Obviously you disagree. But that’s the thing. People have different experiences and perspectives. And a lot people do relate to the religious experiences portrayed in this show, in both positive and negative ways. So while it is absolutely tied into Mike Flannigan’s personal history and beliefs, it’s also clearly something that a lot of people find to be true to their own experiences as well. And that’s not nothing. Even if you don’t agree with it, I think it would be worth you exploring why other people have related to it so strongly. There are tons of video essays on YouTube from people of all kinds of religious backgrounds doing just that.
cosmotron
2023-05-31 18:24:09 +0000 UTCI’m not sure why that means that there isn’t also real wine in there. And even if there wasn’t - it’s vampire blood, who knows what that tastes like. Thinking it would be recognizable as such to other people doesn’t make sense. It wouldn’t taste like human blood anyway.
cosmotron
2023-05-31 18:18:56 +0000 UTCThe huge plothole of people not noticing the wine tastes like blood was a dumb mistake. I know this because it could have easily been fixed in episode 3 by showing Paul pour a small drop of blood inside the chalice instead of a whole flask. Riley being a fedora atheist could have been fixed by removing his character altogether. There's zero reason for his character to exist because Joe could have easily taken his place, or have Riley be the one who paralyzed the girl instead of killing some rando. Imagine how much of a better arc it would have been if Joe became an atheist because he paralyzed the girl, atoned, saw the miracle of her walking again, have him be forgiven by her, have him be forgiven by her family, have him be forgiven by his own family, have him be reintegrated in the community, have him come back to his faith, and then have him discover that it was all a trick.
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 16:04:15 +0000 UTCIn my mind, at least, what separates Riley from your average YouTube atheist is that he's not he's not trying to save anyone from "wrong belief." He definitely has a little bit of the "I'm too smart for this," but he does make it clear those are his own views, not some universal truth. It doesn't really help him any, and it has caused him some problems with his father in the past. I have a feeling that argument with his dad regarding his job is a well-worn one. That's one of the things lacking in Paul's "conversions:" consent. A conversion by force or trickery is no conversion at all. Although it hasn't always played out that way historically. For many people of Crockett Island. the healing of the sick is a miracle, for Erin, it's an anti-miracle. A reverse of the immaculate conception. People not noticing the wine or that the congregants are getting younger does strain suspension of disbelief a little, but I think an element of it is that the people of the island don't want to notice it. They don't want to question this. Bev is the most outright, but others are following along with things they wouldn't otherwise do, like Wade and Dolly. If you want to find one admirable quality about Bev, it's her ability to roll with it, and even that is used for terrible purposes.
Mo
2023-05-31 13:31:10 +0000 UTCFull disclosure: this is not my sock puppet account, I swear!
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 11:56:23 +0000 UTCThe theological conversations in the show are so overplayed, in my opinion. They've been done a million times before in other media, and a lot better I might add, so it's just tiresome at this point. It's almost like the creators think they need to have these types of discussions in order to be a respectable story about people's religious views or lack thereof. It is very on-the-nose and the self-indulgent monologues were a bit much. It also gives off ''oh, this one guy is somehow enlightened and this backward town still believes in fairy tales and superstitions'' vibes with Riley and the rest of the town, which is one of my pet peeves. It's clear that Riley is just a self-insert of the show's creator, and based on interviews with him, it's abundantly clear how he views religious ideas. ''Hey, Guys, DiD You KnOW Your BRaIn floODs with DMT wHeN you DiE??''
Aj
2023-05-31 08:33:34 +0000 UTCExcept the show clearly established in episode 3 that they pour communion "wine" in the communion chalice from the same bottle the vampire poured his blood in in this episode. Oops!
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 08:13:23 +0000 UTCHim reiterating his personal responsibility is both beautiful and heart crushing.
cosmotron
2023-05-31 07:28:38 +0000 UTCIt’s pretty clearly being mixed with actual wine.
cosmotron
2023-05-31 07:26:54 +0000 UTCA few other thoughts: Riley’s view on death is pretty in line with my own. And it also reminds me a little of the conversation between the priest and Canute in Vinland Saga s1 - talking about a dead man representing the purest form of love, because he takes nothing and only gives, and becomes a part of the world that feeds other life. Erin’s experience is so crushing, but a crucial counterpoint to what has been happening with the rest of the town. Riley’s parents are getting healthier because of it, but it’s also something that essentially erased the pregnancy that saved Erin from her abusive relationship. It’s clear proof that the “miracles” caused by the “Angel” blood aren’t inherently good as Paul/Pruitt believes. Not that we need more proof after watching him drink Joe Collie like a capri sun lol.
cosmotron
2023-05-31 07:25:49 +0000 UTCI totally agree, there are some excellent short shows that are amazing and enthralling but don't quite hit that emotional attachment that you get from longer shows.
Alex
2023-05-31 06:47:21 +0000 UTCYeah I was always under the assumption that it was only a small amount of blood in the regular wine
Dante
2023-05-31 04:05:16 +0000 UTCI'm an avid supporter of having Bev for lunch
HenryM
2023-05-31 03:42:44 +0000 UTCBecause it is a small amount of blood mixed with a lot of wine.
alexray
2023-05-31 02:49:20 +0000 UTCYour absolute outrage that Bev hasn’t been eaten is EVERYTHING
Wanda Did Nothing Wrong
2023-05-31 02:34:06 +0000 UTCHow do we know it tasted like anything?
Wanda Did Nothing Wrong
2023-05-31 02:33:14 +0000 UTCI absolutely love how insightful the end discussions are
Naya37
2023-05-31 01:49:35 +0000 UTCHow do we know it tasted exactly like wine?
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 01:46:33 +0000 UTCHow do we know that that things blood, tasted like blood?
Wanda Did Nothing Wrong
2023-05-31 01:40:58 +0000 UTCTransubstantiation, obviously
Mo
2023-05-31 01:08:43 +0000 UTCLola: How come nobody noticed the communion wine tasted like blood? Mike Flanagan: https://i.imgflip.com/375ati.png
Orr Malus
2023-05-31 00:52:58 +0000 UTCWoof. This show is a rough but beautiful ride. Poor Joe. He went to Father Paul/Pruitt for help with his addiction, only for Paul to succumb to an addiction of his own. :(
cosmotron
2023-05-31 00:04:35 +0000 UTCCan't wait to see the reaction to THAT jumpscare lmao
HenryM
2023-05-31 00:02:26 +0000 UTCWhat’s the schedule for this week girls? ❤️
Joaquín Calderón
2023-05-30 23:59:57 +0000 UTCgreat, i was hoping you'd post it today because work the dinner shift tomorrow night and i'd be too tired to watch after! yeah, not a great view to see pruitt use joe as a lollipop 💀 also, the monologues about death are one of my favourite scenes of the show and th acting is amazing. when riley's voice cracks when he says "that i killed soneone" i always bawl my eyes out.
sand_fl
2023-05-30 23:56:45 +0000 UTC
