Vinland Saga 2x19 Reaction
Added 2023-05-19 16:23:53 +0000 UTCno you are not dreaming, im posting this and it is still daylight outside
Comments
ok !
MrChicam
2023-05-25 17:05:52 +0000 UTCPlenty people have defended kelti
20 16
2023-05-21 06:26:09 +0000 UTC@A You're ascribing negatives to Ketil with no real basis in the story itself. Ketil wasn't "just beating his property" because once Snake reminded him that Arnheid was indeed his property, he stopped. This is because his whole thing is wealth. He beat her because he felt betrayed by her, they even juxtaposed this with a flashback of his past trauma to nail this point home. Once he realized his wealth would be affected negatively due to "defending his pride" he stopped. Now that you know Ketil's motivation behind attacking Arnheid (he thought she plotted in secret with her flame to sabotage his entire farm), does it magically change your opinion of him?
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 22:15:15 +0000 UTCexcept nobody is arguing Ketil needs to die to save anyone. Its just revenge
ian
2023-05-20 19:38:49 +0000 UTCThere no way he said that bro lol the issue is people like characters and then turn a blind eye to how bad they are. Its ok to think a character is written well and still admit how trash they are
Jonathan baez
2023-05-20 15:52:48 +0000 UTCI'm dying ๐๐๐คฃ๐
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 15:46:31 +0000 UTC"I'm only killing innocent men, women, and children because I'm actually saving the lives of innocent men, women, and children." is better than doing it because your feelings are hurt. Ashkelad was actually conflicted. Ketil doesn't care.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-20 15:18:14 +0000 UTC@Camzee Thorfinn is one of the lowest lowlifes of the story. That's the point of his character. The author himself said it: Thorfinn is meant to show people that no matter how terrible you are there's still a way to turn things around. You're not meant to justify any of the actions he did prior to becoming a slave. Even the character himself explained this several times in this season.
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 15:09:06 +0000 UTC"Ashkeladd was killing to save others." This has got to be the funniest thing I've read all weak. "I'm only killing innocent men, women, and children because I'm actually saving the lives of innocent men, women, and children." - Askeladd 4th dimension underwater backgammon level of strategy. Hahahahaha.
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 15:03:02 +0000 UTCYou brought up the number of lives ruined but that doesn't matter as much as the reasons why. Ashkeladd was killing to save others. He never killed to satisfy himself, he did get satisfaction from killing the king but he didn't do it to satisfy himself. Ketil only acts in his own self interest. He only treats his slaves nicely because he see's how profitable it can be. The same comparison can be made between Snake and Thorgill. We have no idea who killed more, but because Snake isn't fighting for himself he's more likeable.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-20 14:28:22 +0000 UTCI mean Thorfinn couldve went home...he had a choice too. Leif literally came for him and Thorfinn rejected him willing to continue this life in order to kill Askeladd. He didnt need to work for Askeladd. Hell, the dude didnt even want Thorfinn following him around like a mad dog. Thorfinn chose to stay on that ship, chose to follow Askeladd to the warzone, chose to kill those people, vikings, soldiers and innocents alike. Neither is innocent. But because Thorfinn is young and the mc, we can give him leeway since hes obviously grown from that past. But objectively, Thorfinn ruined more lives than Ketil. If anything, other than Arnheid, Ketil saved more slaves. Yes, he still employed them but gave them the opportunity to free themselves after paying off what he paid for them. In no means does this justify slavery but had those salves been picked up by any other person, their treatment would most likely be worse off. I aint saying Ketil is a saint, hes clearly far from it. But compared to Thorfinn who has killed hundreds out of apathy and blind rage towards Askeladd, Ketil has done less damage. Thats simply the truth of the matter. Facts not opinions. If you want my opinion then i dislike him, especially what he did to Arnheid. Obviously i love thorfinn for how his character grew and I love Askeladd as well despite all the shit hes done. Those two take the number 1 and 2 spot in this show (interchangeable).
Danny
2023-05-20 13:48:32 +0000 UTCDuty might not have been the exact right word. But he worked for Askeladd and did his bidding. He didn't kill people because he enjoyed it.
Camzeee
2023-05-20 13:01:14 +0000 UTCI didn't write all the stuff just to virtue signal. I make offensive jokes that get deleted, I really don't care about virtue signaling. Just talking about opinions on a show.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-20 12:33:10 +0000 UTCThe show showed us plenty of the horrible things Ashkeladd did. They didn't show us him killing the kids but we saw their bodies being buried. The only one who got the treatment of not killing innocents directly was Thorfinn. And you guys are ignoring Javen's point on motivation. We didn't like Ashkeladd until we learned his. Ketil was just beating his property. Also Ashkeladd was hated himself. Ketil hates everyone around him. I get you guys think the point of the show is violence is never the answer, but then why did Thorfinn fight Snake? I don't think the message of the show is that violence is never the answer. Thorfinn almost saved the slave husband. Ashkeladd did save the Welsh. Thors did save his son and traveling companions. And they all did it with violent means. So if killing or torturing Ketil saves people, it's worth it.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-20 12:24:26 +0000 UTCPretty sure nobody was defending Ketil, only people saying there were people "out there" defending Ketil in order to virtue signal. Also Thorfinn killed out of duty? What show have you been watching?
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 10:04:18 +0000 UTCHow are there people out there defending Ketil... It's absurd. And you can't compare him to Thorfinn who killed out of duty. He took no pleasure in it, it was just what he had to do to survive while he was with Askeladd. Ketil actively could choose how to treat Arnheid and decided to do that. Intention and choice matters a lot when it comes to judging the nobility of a character.
Camzeee
2023-05-20 08:47:41 +0000 UTCOof seeing so many Ketil defenders/apologists is disturbing๐คฎ lol And I have to say how laughable the whole "What about Thorfinn? Did you think about that?" comparison is ๐๐คฃ As if the two are at all comparable....
slipHAZARD
2023-05-20 06:43:33 +0000 UTC@ian "We can all say we are against murder and the death penalty and war or whatever but as soon as something hits your emotions too hard it all goes out the window." Yep. This is true for the vast majority of people. The only way to circumnavigate a person's rational faculties is by appealing to their emotions alone (whether positively or negatively). This is what fascinates me so much about movies, tv shows, and anime. It's like watching a magic act that you know the trick behind but still fall for it. If Ketil would have been a young, tall, strapping lad and he would have been beating on a woman that looked like the mistress (and wronged him in the same way Arnheid did) expect a completely different reaction from people. Look at Ashkeladd, a man who literally split babies' skulls open with his sword, raped, tortured, murdered countless Arnheids, with even the author himself explaining how he's a completely reprehensible character. Yet because his crimes are off screen in the anime most people have a positive opinion of him. It's all a trick.
Orr Malus
2023-05-20 06:35:28 +0000 UTCLove? Oh no that is not love lol we need our priest boy back to explain love again
Jonathan baez
2023-05-20 03:27:00 +0000 UTCThis was how Ketil treated a person he loved. It's not the same at all.
Lexi Browning
2023-05-20 01:50:34 +0000 UTCI dont know how I could possibly make it any more clear what I'm saying lmao
ian
2023-05-20 00:53:42 +0000 UTCMy point is that's not a bad thing. We saw what it looked like when someone was an unwavering pacifist earlier this season. The show holds up Thors as an icon and he didn't just let people do whatever they wanted.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-20 00:33:15 +0000 UTCMy comment has nothing to do with sympathy. Nothing to do with self defence. Nothing to do with hating Ketil. Everything to do with letting your emotions change your opinions on murder and revenge.
ian
2023-05-19 23:57:09 +0000 UTCYou disagree with it by thinking he should stand up and fight back. Nothing is going out the window, there's just a line. I think Javen explained it best, why Thorfin and Canute get sympathy while Ketil gets deathwishes.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-19 23:44:41 +0000 UTCHow do you agree or disagree with a depressed guy standing there getting beat up? The entire point of my comment has nothing to do with the characters its just the girls wishing death on someone after all this and probably a million other shows they're watched have said. We can all say we are against murder and the death penalty and war or whatever but as soon as something hits your emotions too hard it all goes out the window.
ian
2023-05-19 23:36:07 +0000 UTCDid you agree with Thorfinn when he was letting people beat him up? Thors knew there was a time to act and that's what Thorfinn is learning.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-19 23:23:07 +0000 UTCIm not talking about the scene in the last episode, I'm talking about the reaction to what they want to happen to ketil in this video. Obviously the reaction to a guy beating his slave is the only one a non psychopath would have.
ian
2023-05-19 23:18:33 +0000 UTC@ian But the show is created so as people have an emotional reaction to that scene. Granted the show also went above the source material to make us sympathetic to Ketil as well but not to the same extent.
Orr Malus
2023-05-19 23:15:31 +0000 UTCDo you really think that is my point? That I'm defending him? And I don't mean the reaction to the scene itself but the pre episode discussion about what should happen to Ketil. The show has very clear obvious philosophy on revenge or violence and that all goes out the window for people when someone does something atrocious even if it goes against everything they believe. To say you want Ketil to die after everything the story is trying to tell is a pure emotional response. Most people here I assume are against the death penalty but I'm sure alot of people would change their minds if someone murdered their whole family. The entire show is about a man who escapes violence and revenge and the audience all agrees but as soon as a character does something like this we all flip and wish death on him as an act of revenge.
ian
2023-05-19 23:12:01 +0000 UTCYeah you're right ian, they're so weird reacting emotionally to that scene. They should really have more sympathy for the pregnant woman beater. /sarcasm
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-19 22:22:44 +0000 UTC'emotional' so similar to ketil's rash reaction then?
Tiber Septim
2023-05-19 22:10:59 +0000 UTCI like Thorgil because I'm never crying when he's on screen.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-19 21:56:40 +0000 UTCThere opinions seem to become completely emotional when a man hurts a woman in every show they watch.
ian
2023-05-19 21:49:27 +0000 UTC@Javen Turner The reason why old man Ketil is nice is because he recognized the errors of his ways and is afraid that his son is going down a similar bad path. He's the one that (accidentally) taught Ketil that wealth is power by selling off his fiancรฉ to a higher bidder. It was not established that Ketil knew that Arnheid's "flame" was (a) her husband and (b) a runaway slave. The episode even shows how Ketil imagined Gardar to be so he's not making any decisions based on actual facts. In other words, Ketil is just a coward who hides behind his own wealth and is also willing (like his father before him) to sacrifice others in order to keep that wealth. This is what the show tells us. @Toidleboy I do agree that Ketil objectively has the moral high ground to Thorfinn. The show points this out as well, Thorfinn's character would admit to this himself but it's done poorly. Granted most shows do this poorly, to show the other side of the coin in a sympathetic light. A good exception is AoT which is why it's such an exceptional show. In so far as Thorfinn's shortcomings goes, the author is fully aware of them which is why Bug Eyes (best boy) exists: to satirize Thorfinn. I'm curious to see if the creators of the anime will pick up on that.
Orr Malus
2023-05-19 21:23:25 +0000 UTCThe reason Ketil does evil to other's has been almost exclusively because of the way he would look. He is the most fragile character in the show. We justify the wrongs of Canute and Thorfin because they are seen as a means to an end. Ketil lies to his entire community that he is a famous warrior for respect and influence and beats a pregnant women half dead because he feels disgraced. He's shown to be a pretty selfish person and the only reason he's really 'nice' to his slaves is because he is following the example of his father. Without the Old Master's kindness who knows how much of a scumbag he would be.
Javen Turner
2023-05-19 20:03:57 +0000 UTCJust to challenge your views a bit on Ketil, yes its extremely horrible and unthinkable what he has done, but also think how the the very person we all love Thorfinn has killed (literally ended the lives) of hundreds if not thousands of people. So is beating a slave worse than killing people in that sense, and up to this point Ketil has been seen to be quite possibly one of the "better" slave owners, even letting Einar and Thorfinn become free again (not like its good at all, but there are definitely worse out there). Even Canute is ordering to kill people, the cycle is persistant and i just think its unfair to wish upon Ketil's death because of those actions when you wouldnt do the same to Thorfinn who has argueably done much worse. not defending him at all just pointing out what i feel would be a reasonable opposing side if you took the time to read this. love the reactions!
Toidleboy
2023-05-19 19:08:45 +0000 UTCA slave on the verge of death, exhausted from living and staying alive, terrified of his/her master. I love these parallels. And to briefly defend Thorgil: He's quite a bit further away and a battle is damn loud (the screams and yells, the bangs when swords collide). He very certainly did not hear him.
Robert H.
2023-05-19 18:52:38 +0000 UTCi completely missed the stag = einar and wolf = thorfinn connection until lola pointed it out. that detail wasnt in the manga from what i recall but i love those kind of additions
Sebastian
2023-05-19 18:50:53 +0000 UTCI love Arnheid seeing Einar as the deer{stag} and Thorfinn as the wolf for her to stay alive great visuals.
Awed
2023-05-19 18:31:33 +0000 UTCRubbing my eyes in disbelief, or maybe just because too much sun
Jay Craig
2023-05-19 18:20:19 +0000 UTCWhat on earth! Have a wonderful weekend everyjuan x
TuiLa4
2023-05-19 18:14:53 +0000 UTCRare moment but a welcome one! Watching this after work lol
Jack SV
2023-05-19 18:10:01 +0000 UTCTo me Thorfinn's redemption arc is also special because in real life I don't think many people get a chance to turn their lives around. Like even if they deserve it. At least in my country the legal system doesn't focus of rehabilitation, reformation and reintegration of a person in society. In real life, victims appeal the release of convicts, judges hesitate to grant parole. Its very complicated. I think that's the reason why desire to atone and repent within thorfinn is so strong. Like Reiner wanted to be judged, one can't help but think is thorfinn also thinking something similar?
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-05-19 17:29:49 +0000 UTC46:49 "if I can't have Einar, let her die" ๐๐ I can't with milena
Vivasvan Gautam
2023-05-19 17:16:45 +0000 UTCCrazy to see Thorfinn walk away from the fight like that
JATLA
2023-05-19 16:47:30 +0000 UTCOh my god, now I just have to wait like 7 hours till I get off from work to watch this lmao
HenryM
2023-05-19 16:35:49 +0000 UTCnot you posting early when i'm literally about to leave for my shift ๐ this is cruel
sand_fl
2023-05-19 16:25:35 +0000 UTCThis was a funky episode
Tate
2023-05-19 16:25:08 +0000 UTC
