Midnight Mass Episode 2 Reaction
Added 2023-05-18 00:05:14 +0000 UTCthe amount of things that went over our heads that i just realized while editing…
Comments
Watched the first two episodes of this show and tbh it's not my cup of tea. I just don't particularly care about the characters nor am I interested in finding out what happens. However, I really like the post episode discussion about morality and the themes of the show. Weird one. Tempted to watch on just so I can listen to the reactions after and not much else.
Camzeee
2023-05-20 23:25:31 +0000 UTCEveryone thinks their religion is superior to any other religion because if they didn't they would convert to whatever religion they think is superior. Atheists and Enlightenment thinkers have a form of morality in spite of their own belief systems which can be summed up in "feels good = good". "feels angry at the teaching that suffering is a part of a divine plan." Riley's character doesn't even understand this aspect of his own faith. He doesn't even address it as in to say that it's an aspect of his own faith he disagrees with. It's like everything is new information to him even though he was an altar boy and also studied most religions in prison. These elements demonstrate Riley's lazy thinking and refusal to take responsibility for his own actions. He's a very self-centered and irresponsible person which is fine but this goes against to how the show presents Riley or wants us to think about Riley. I'm not saying it's lazy writing because Riley is a bad person, I'm saying it's lazy writing because Riley is a bad person but the writer doesn't realize this. One of my favorite movies is this Korean thriller called The Chaser. In it the main character starts off as a scumbag and is presented as such. By the end of the movie the main character is still a scumbag and is still presented as such even though he's the hero of the story. There is no discrepancy between how a character is and how the show presents them to be. If Riley wasn't the main character then he would have been less likeable than Bev.
Orr Malus
2023-05-19 02:08:17 +0000 UTC"religiocentric" means to hold one's own religion as more important or correct than other religions. It's not a condemnation, just an observation. And morality is not solely the purview of religion. Atheists have codes of moral behavior and people of faith can have ethical rules separate than those dictated by their faith. The Enlightenment was basically all about figuring out ethical rules of behavior beyond those prescribed by the institutions of faith. There are no objective answers when it comes to these questions, unlike whether or not we have the means to fight infection. These aren't questions of logic or fact. Answers are going to vary widely. The show doesn't say Riley's interpretation is correct or more valid than Paul's, just that he, though both his upbringing, experiences, and reading has left the faith and feels angry at the teaching that suffering is a part of a divine plan.
Mo
2023-05-19 00:37:27 +0000 UTCEvil is religiocentric by definition because it assumes morality and morality is the purview of religion. My issue with the show's writing is not its morality but that it lacks internal logic. It's self contradictory. A story that has a character who's a doctor and has that doctor go on, and on, and on about the field of medicine and how it lacks the means by which to battle an infection is poorly written. Not only that but the story also nails it home how said doctor has read all the medicine books and has yet to discover any means by which to battle an infection. I couldn't get into the story because I was constantly trying to figure out "Is the character meant to be stupid?" or "Is the writing accidentally bad?".
Orr Malus
2023-05-18 22:23:26 +0000 UTCI think you're taking a very narrow and religiocentric view of evil. Lots of different people groups have different concepts of moral behavior, transgression, misfortune etc. You're also judging the show by how much it conforms to your personal belief system, rather than engaging with what the text is saying. No one's saying you can't do that, but it's not a very useful form of critique.
Mo
2023-05-18 22:01:16 +0000 UTC@space1999 Are you a muslim? Because I have a question about the scene where the Sheriff's asks his kid to say "Good night" to his mother and then the kid kisses the picture. Is that something muslims typically do, kissing images? Because it seems to me to go against some teachings of Islam. If it's not the case then this just further shows that Mike Flannigan doesn't really know much about any religion.
Orr Malus
2023-05-18 20:42:24 +0000 UTC@Mo Christianity is the only religion that can answer the question "if God why bad things happen?". I challenge anyone to find any religion that even comes close to defining what "evil" is in a coherent fashion. Here my argument is not theological but historical. The concept of what we today call "evil" is a Christian one and you won't see any reference to it in any culture outside Christianity prior to 2000 years ago (Mosaic Judaism notwithstanding). @A The explanation of why evil happens is in Scriptures themselves: we were given Free Will and God is all powerful. From a logical point of view, if God had to stop every evil act a human does then that would not make him all powerful. If all I had to do in order to control God is to threaten to do something bad then that would make God nothing more than my slave. In other words Epicurus makes a fundamental logical error: his argument assumes God's omnipotence and also assumes God is OBLIGATED to do something about bad things happening. These two statements contradict each other. (Also in reference to my previous point, Epicurus' "evil" is not the way you and I would define evil. When Epicurus talks about evil he's talking about natural evil which is anything that is an inconvenience or not pleasurable.) Apropo of the priest mentioning Jesus' miracle of turning water into wine. The lesson there is not what alcohol is in of itself, it's about the Virgin Mary. She was the one that asked Jesus to help the married couple out because they had no more wine for the celebration. God, in Christianity, might not act when evil people do evil things but He does choose to help good people out when they ask Him to (which includes stopping evil people from doing evil). Riley represents the writer's avatar in the story, Mike Flannigan having had drinking problems as well as being raised Roman Catholic. I consider this character to be incredibly poorly written. It's also lazy writing. If you're going to have a character that's an engineer you'd best at least read a few Wikipedia articles to give you an idea what engineers even do. The novel Salem's Lot is far more coherent in its inner logic because it doesn't even attempt to tackle a concept like religion. It's just a backdrop for the events to unfold. In Midnight Mass it's like the other way around: the events are just a backdrop to Mike Flannigan's uninformed musings about religion. This is why The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor are his superior works: both were based on stories written by other people. EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text lol (⊙_⊙;)
Orr Malus
2023-05-18 20:31:59 +0000 UTCStrongly agree, the use of belief in general is tackled in the show and Christianity is used as a basis to explore all these ideas. The characters who do believe aren’t presented as lesser or dumb (there’s more nuance there but it’s tackled much later in the show) And yeah… like just about every religion has explanations for why bad things happen despite deities existing, not just Christianity. In Islam bad things in the world or suffering are described as mercy from God
space1999
2023-05-18 15:09:09 +0000 UTCIt's Riley the character lashing out at the unfairness of the world and his own guilt, not necessarily Flannigan's own views on faith. The show has characters with many different relationships with their faith, good and bad. Almost all religions grapple with the problem of evil. Christian theologians alone have written lots of different things over thousands of years. There is no one correct answer, even within the same faith. There are a couple things Flannigan gets "wrong" (the potluck on Ash Wednesday instead of Shrove Tuesday, for example), but Christianity isn't a uniform religion,, and it informs and is informed by the culture around it. The show uses the framework of Irish-American Catholicism to make a wider point about the US, nature of addiction, forgiveness, leaving the faith (and coming back) and a couple of other spoilery things.
Mo
2023-05-18 13:33:04 +0000 UTCI'm not watching this show but I saw your comment Orr and it reminded me of the question of evil by Epicurus. He pretty much says the same thing except breaks it down more to show that logically the conclusion is that either god is fine with bad things happening or he can't do anything to stop bad things.
Shivering King Banana
2023-05-18 13:26:39 +0000 UTCI was getting some euphoric 2010 YouTube atheism movement vibes from Riley. When he got into that car he should have been wearing his favorite Sonic shirt. And when explaining himself to the judge why he ran over that girl he should have said: "I had to go fast, your honor". This alone would have made MM the greatest show of all time.
Orr Malus
2023-05-18 12:57:36 +0000 UTCThats another thing that I noticed about Midnight Mass. The 3 Abrahamic religions or religions in general have some strong and weak arguments agaisnt them. And I will have to admit alot of the points made throughout midnight mass are absolutely horrid. It feels almost petty at some points. But nevermind that is probably my main critic of the show.
Korin
2023-05-18 12:13:36 +0000 UTCYeah you literally have to blast your brightness as high as you can to make out anything in that shot.
Corncobtv
2023-05-18 04:33:48 +0000 UTCIf you look closely, you can see Bev leave the poisoned hot dog out of Pike. There's also a subtle bit with Sheriff Hassan and Ali looking through the food for something without pork. I feel you, guys. 12 Step varies in how religious it it, depending on which group you go to, but it is very Christianity-based. The first alcohol support groups were either Native American religions based or secular (The Washingtonians). The Catholic Church and other Christian churches *hated* the groups because it implied salvation without God, so they formed a more religious version. There's very little scientific evidence that 12 step works any better than other recovery methods, but it's entrenched now. For the people it does work for, it can work very well. I understand Riley's frustration. "Why do bad things happen?" is one of the questions religion and philosophy have sought to answer. It's like in the Book of Job, except for Riley it was too much. People are capable of good and evil, as Paul says. As someone who uses a wheelchair. I appreciate that Leeza suddenly walking isn't treated as inspirational and amazing, but kind of ominous.
Mo
2023-05-18 03:25:08 +0000 UTCRiley's argument of "if God why bad things happen?" is a valid one but only if you're not a Christian. Riley's character was a Christian in his youth and in the first episode he even bragged about being very knowledgeable in Christianity as well as other religions. Christianity is the only religion that even has an answer to that question which betrays Mike Flannigan's superficial knowledge about Christianity (including other religions). Apparently he himself was raised Roman Catholic which pretty much explains his ignorance on the whole matter.
Orr Malus
2023-05-18 00:52:02 +0000 UTCYeah, I think there was glowing eyes in the background in the first episode as well, can't pinpoint the scene exactly, but these things can be easily missed in dark scenes. I thought the epiphany might be related to the mistery, can't wait to hear your discussion in this episode and the next
HenryM
2023-05-18 00:48:59 +0000 UTCohhh i just watched it again in my dark room, i saw eyes, honestly looks like paul
LM Reactions
2023-05-18 00:41:05 +0000 UTCso sorry to hear that. one of my dogs died like 6 years ago to and i still miss him so much 😭 and honestly, the thought of something happening to lexa scares me shirtless because she just turned 7 and a cat is considered senior when they turn 8. okay, that makes sense. as someone who has rewatched the show 3 times, now 4 with you and rewatched some scenes many times i can definitely say you catch more things after rewatching, like way more. but yeah, if the tv showed things perfectly you'd be able to watch some more things in the dark scenes. and you just destroyed my hope, tell milena that kate is in hush, a mike flanagan horror movie, maybe that will do the trick.
sand_fl
2023-05-18 00:37:11 +0000 UTCim so sorry for making you sad for the rest of the night, we’re filming those tomorrow, didnt have time to film these days, tomorrow we’ll post the wire and hxh
LM Reactions
2023-05-18 00:36:26 +0000 UTCno i still didnt see anything, i even zoomed in.. the epiphany is more related ti the mistery, im now certain that paul and pruitt and the same person and that he is somehow healing the people on the island because i forgot about rileys mother who could suddenly see better also i think pruitt might be the father of the women with the mother because she called him john and keeps saying that she sees her father and paul was starring at her and she said that pruitt starred as well, i just feel like theres a lot of clues about the whole mistery that we didnt register because until the end of the episode i still thought it was gonna be ghosts and now theres creatures killing cats and people
LM Reactions
2023-05-18 00:34:59 +0000 UTCjust watching the edit and this is what i forgot to mention in the comment. wikipedia's definition of monsignor 'an honorific form of address or title for certain male clergy members, usually members of the Roman Catholic Church'.
sand_fl
2023-05-18 00:32:42 +0000 UTCThe Wire on Wednesday no? HxH Thursday, Vinland Friday, The Wire Saturday, HxH Sunday? Or am I high
Jay Craig
2023-05-18 00:30:11 +0000 UTChonestly i still didnt see anything in the darkness, i was looking but i literally couldn’t see anything, i just picked up on some dialogue that was said that connected things for me so i think i have a better idea of what the mistery is.. i had cats my whole childhood, only one at a time, my last cat passed away about 7 years ago and we never got another one but i always loved them see the part with sarah i didnt pick up on at all, maybe i should rewatch it for the 3rd time also milena would rather die than watch a horror movie
LM Reactions
2023-05-18 00:29:48 +0000 UTCA+ Thumbnail
Jay Craig
2023-05-18 00:29:10 +0000 UTCI wonder what kind of epiphany you had. Btw did you get jumpscared by the dark figure Erin saw outside her window while editing it? I know you couldn't see it the first time lol
HenryM
2023-05-18 00:18:48 +0000 UTCThis thumbnail is the best, it should be made into a painting and hung in a museum.
DaftBasterd
2023-05-18 00:16:15 +0000 UTCAre we getting HxH or Vindland today as well? If not I will.. just be sad for the rest of the night lol
Jack SV
2023-05-18 00:15:35 +0000 UTClol, i imagined. you saw more things in the computer monitor right? it happens to me too. no matter how many times i change the settings my tv is shitty for dark scenes. by the way. a few things i wanted to say after watching the full. lola... have you had a cat/cats all this time and never showed them to us? if i did youtube videos lexa would be in every single one of them 😂 also yes, father paul is great at giving speeches. that actor is an amazing. i said this before but he gives what i would say is in my top 3 of performances done by an acor. the fact that the awards completely ignored him still makes me angry af. and other thing, sarah (the doctor) mentioned that pruitt always looked at her like "he knew" refering at her sexuality. she was with her date in the festival. pretty sure i wanted to mention a couple things more, i guess it'll come back when i watch the edit. you uploaded this at the perfect time because i need to clean my kitchen because i had people over for dinner and i'm not in the mood for music right now. ps: milena's screams are as funny as i remember them. i really need you to start reacting to more horror, specially movies. the hilarity that would be watching you react to movies like hereditary, the conjuring or even something like scream? it would be something.
sand_fl
2023-05-18 00:15:34 +0000 UTCGreat thumbnail
Epsilox
2023-05-18 00:14:11 +0000 UTC
