Diving into the Wreckage 9: Where is the left now? w/ C. Derick Varn
Added 2023-09-06 10:00:00 +0000 UTCBrand new Diving into the Wreckage mini-series scrapping at the wreckage that is the US Left, tracing the trajectory of socialist politics since the 1970s, and looking for ways out of the mess we're in.
Within, Varn presents on the recent history of the Democratic Socialists of America, their precipitous rise and slow decline in membership since 2020. How does this bode for the future of the millennial left? As it turns out, there are reasons to be cautiously optimistic.
TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW FOR 9/10 in NYC and 9/12 in PHILLY shows WITH MINION DEATH CULT, POD DAMN AMERICA, and WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM (philly only)!!!!
BROOKLYN! Sept 10 at LITTLEFIELD: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/minion-death-cult-live-tickets-691958234707
Philly! Sept 12 w/WTYP at FRANKLIN BALLROOM https://www.bowerypresents.com/shows/detail/496996-well-theres-your-problem
And yes... the SICK POSTER IS ON SALE!!! https://www.grimgrimgrim.com/products/well-there-s-your-problem-minion-death-cult-the-antifada-gig-poster
Comments
this wreckage
The Antifada
2023-09-19 16:54:48 +0000 UTCWhich Gary Numan song is this? i love it
the CIA blew up the moon
2023-09-14 21:43:23 +0000 UTCAnd as social hegemony also wears out and is hijacked by elements within the conservative and liberal spectrum- forceful repression becomes the only remaining lever
Jason John
2023-09-11 19:41:39 +0000 UTCVery interesting how Shawn says:”hopefully the organized left/DSA will be will rise to the moment when repression is turned inwards” (something like that). It would of course mean ligitimation of the organized left- but thought about just after the episode on Gramsci, it seems that the more the economic power base is eroded in the US, the more the reliance on cultural hegemony??
Jason John
2023-09-11 19:33:32 +0000 UTCHonestly one of thee best pod series on for socialists… just waiting for a DITW panel to do a show in Vancouver 😁
Jason John
2023-09-11 19:26:53 +0000 UTCThe only I answer to your first question ("why is almost everyone I talk to who supports r&f strat on the staff side") I can think of is that, for people interested in doing "labor work" --- especially people who come from the middle class, progressive, colleges educated ecosystem that makes up much of DSA and The Left writ large --- getting a relatively cozy staff job with a relatively high salary is much less of a sacrifice than say getting an uncomfortable potentially harmful job (say in a warehouse) for less money. It's just harder to get people to do that kind of thing.
James Murray
2023-09-10 03:56:55 +0000 UTCWhat docs are you referencing when you're describing what you understand as the R&F. The DSLC/NLC at rfs (dot) dsausa (dot) org?
James Murray
2023-09-10 03:31:45 +0000 UTCI can't speak about the chapters or people in them you're interacting with unfortunately. Most of the people I know who've carried out what they consider the rank and file strategy (admittedly, mostly people in B&R) are people who got jobs in UPS warehouses, or as teachers, or as auto workers. Most of the people I know who advocate for the R&F strategy would not consider getting a staff job part of that strategy. IME, this is well understood by both supporters and critics of R&F in DSA. There's plenty of union staffers in DSA, and a portion of them support the R&F strat, but most of them are at least a little critical of Labor Notes, TDU, B&R, and the R&F strat. That's just my experience tho. --- And sure, the unions are structured differently than they were in '34. As are the social conditions/makeup/experiences of the working class, and as are the structure of the economy. This has all been discussed at length. So ofc implementing such a strategy isn't gonna look exactly the same, but it's not gonna look totally different either. The CTU 2012 Strike did not look the same as the 34 Minneapolis Teamsters strike, but the handful of socialists that formed CORE and took over that union were reading about Farrel Dobbs, talking to people in TDU, Labor Notes, etc. You can see a clear throughline between them.
James Murray
2023-09-10 03:26:54 +0000 UTCNote that rank and file does not say one should be in the rank and file and a working rep and not just labor staff. And the focus seems to be on political victories stemming from work actions. Hence the McAlverey organizer-activist model.
Derick Varn
2023-09-10 02:41:09 +0000 UTCAnd I am barring comparison of strategy prior to 1936 because the structure of unions was radically different and asserting that you are using that strategy while in unions structured very differently seems to be a stretch.
Derick Varn
2023-09-10 02:40:30 +0000 UTCWhy is the vast majority of any one I have met who uses this strategy on the staff side of unionizations in almost every DSA chapter I have encountered? Is it organizing the rank and file from within or seperately, judging by the results I see in the boasters of DSA labor strategy, jane mcalevey’s ideas seem to be used as repeat of what was tried in the 1970s off the justification of things tried in different structures in the 1930s. So “describing” right here may be a difference in what people say they are doing and what actually happens
Derick Varn
2023-09-10 02:39:08 +0000 UTCOr you should move on.
Derick Varn
2023-09-10 02:37:13 +0000 UTCMy only response is that I did not say they couldn’t contribute and aren’t worth doing (in fact, on the last point, I said the opposite), but I have said we haven’t seen many victories and we needed more than just tenant unionization. Also, Canadian law is more forgiving to tenants than US law in most states which is a bigger issue for the comparison. But in general, your points are well taken
Derick Varn
2023-09-10 02:36:14 +0000 UTCwe're working on it...
The Antifada
2023-09-08 23:57:05 +0000 UTCLove this series!
M.R. Alchemist
2023-09-08 13:56:31 +0000 UTCYeah the problem starts around 15:45. It sounds to me more like a sample rate problem, perhaps re-rendering the podcast will fix it?
Leigh Smith
2023-09-08 12:34:36 +0000 UTCCan we fundraise a new mic for Sean? Or audio cables? His voice was crackling and popping throughout the whole episode, made it really tough to listen to and I say that as a big fan of diving into the wreckage generally 😔
Alfonso Delgado
2023-09-08 00:08:08 +0000 UTCThis is the worst rambling series y’all do, so boring and irrelevant. Please move on…
Jeff St. Andrews
2023-09-07 18:55:38 +0000 UTCGood series. I subscribed so I could listen to the full episodes. I would like to respond briefly to Varn's claim that struggles around the landlord-tenant relationship are purely defensive and limited to enforcement of the law. For one, I have participated in recent struggles in Toronto that have achieved more than simply enforcing the law. For example, campaigns by tenants that have stopped evictions on legal grounds (extensive renovation of the rental unit) and rent strikes against (legal) rent increases. My main disagreement however is with the implication that defensive struggles cannot contribute to the development of independent, working-class politics. It is tenant unionism as practiced on the left, and not struggles around the landlord-tenant relationship, that limits working-class political development. The sectoralism of tenant unions lends itself to attempts to increase the influence of tenants as a sector within the state through lobbying and electoral initiatives dominated by nonprofits and bourgeois parties. This immediately undercuts the political independence of nascent working-class organizations. Organizing carried out on a territorial basis, for example, among workers residing in a specific renter district is not necessarily hemmed in in the same way, especially if it does not exclusively confine itself to struggles around the landlord-tenant relationship.
Cole
2023-09-07 18:21:50 +0000 UTCOh God, as a former member of the CPC, the socialist/communist parties up here in Canada are so bad. Aside from the sex scandals, cult-ish organizational structures and lack of any actual mutual aid activities they're also just allergic to getting actual power. When I asked why we focus so much on federal and provincial elections but don't run candidates in local municipal elections where we might have an actual chance of winning the response I got was, "well yea, but then we might actually win". The strategy of these groups seems to be that capitalism will collapse and when that happens Fightback or the CPC or whoever will lead a proletarian revolution to socialism in Canada and beyond by virtue of just sort of being around? Terrible place up here, truly hell.
Mark Brian Wilson
2023-09-07 16:23:04 +0000 UTCAs an observer from overseas might I ask why tensions about the alignment to the Democrats between LA/NYC and those based elsewhere can't be put of given that. 1- US parties lack the structure and discipline that are common overseas. 2- the level of federalism. now that might not be desirable but it seems plausible.
Maggie+Al
2023-09-07 04:41:52 +0000 UTCIdk where Varn's characterization of the R&F Strategy of "getting people to become union beauracrats to interface with Democrats" is coming from. That's ridiculous. The idea is simple - socialists should be focused solely and squarely on organizing the rank and file. Go to strategic workplaces, ideally places with strike leverage. Also consider where the militancy is at, where prior organization is, where interest and opportunity in your chapter is, etc. Get jobs together with other DSA members. If you're getting a union job (recommended but not necessary!) build reform caucuses. Do the organizing, become stewards, win elected leadership. Organize the r&f as elected leaders, lead them in strikes. Inspire other workers to organize thru strikes, and hopefully victorious strikes, rinse and repeat. The ideal model for this is how the CLA led the mass strike of Teamsters in Minneapolis in 1934 (as presented in Teamster Rebellion), which also inspired how socialists organized CORE to win leadership in CTU and lead a mass teachers strike in Chicago. To a lesser extent TDU (tho I don't agree with your guys' characterization of them giving up on socialism, when did that happen exactly?) You can criticize the R&F strat sure, but at least describe it correctly. Also, the UAWD reform caucus efforts was spearheaded by DSA members from the beginning, many of them close to Labor Notes and TDU!!! Shawn Fain himself is not a socialist, but he's close to them!
James Murray
2023-09-06 19:23:13 +0000 UTC‘heart and nigiri’ on repeat
J D
2023-09-06 15:16:49 +0000 UTClove the metropolis zone act music at the front
James Murray
2023-09-06 12:09:59 +0000 UTCFavorite series dropped hell yeah
E
2023-09-06 11:00:41 +0000 UTC
