Your Thoughts on New SDA Features!

Thanks for the feedback!

Martimius

It’s a little jarring sometimes when Serana fires off a random comment that doesn’t fit the situation. Moods might well improve that. I alway play with Inigo, who is usually generally affable, but is also a character with some trauma to carry around. His moods are very natural feeling and seem to be based heavily on location and current activity. Serana is an arguably more complex character. Her mood shifts could, and should, be a bit more extreme and not always subject to be the same in a given location at any given time. Castle Volkihar, just for one instance, especially if you use the Rebuilt mod by Arthmoor, should elicit more than one type of commentary depending on where you and Serana are at. I like the moods idea, it could really add in a significant way to this incredible body of work… but I don’t see Serana as fickle or prone to renounce an important friendship or romance once established over some slight. Serious actions that aren’t in line with her character, sure.

Brian Morgan

Thank you for the feedback!

Martimius

Fabulous work. I especially enjoyed the comments you had been making on Serana and AI, and a really great deep-dive on the gotcha's of AI. A major challenge is going to be one of respecting the rights of voice artists, while limiting their impact as self-appointed gatekeepers who function stifles innovation. There are a lot of grey areas involvec. No doubt, other sticky wickets will arise, but the modding community is nothing, if not creative! My greatest curiosity involves interaction with other NPC's, and the "character NPC's," in particular (Serana, Sofia, Caesia, etc.). When going to a tavern, etc. none of these behave like real people. Could you image going out with someone (friend, date, anything else) to a restaurant or a bar and have them not even being willing to sit at the same table with you. Then there's the lack of conversation. Filling in those kinds of gaps, using lore and information from surrounding NPC's could make things more lifelike. What you have done with Serana is nothing short of fabulous. It's the very best work out there.

Thank you for the feedback! Will keep this in mind. For the Valerica stuff, it's already being included in the next update! Read the patch notes, or if you're a Patreon you can even read the script doc and watch the dry run for how Kerstyn acts out the scene :) Additionally, I only consider mod support that will be used by a huge number of people (not necessarily all, as I can't cater to everybody) and mods that serve to further different avenues of Serana's character development. Vigilant is definitely one of them.

Martimius

I want to offer a different view. I really hope to see if there is anyone else that thinks like me. I do not like gating dialog behind moods. I don't have to buy my IRL friends gifts to get them out of a slump, I talk to them. I don't buy people gifts when I need to apologize, I verbalize my error and try to do better. I do not like the concept of giving gifts constantly increasing a relationship. Hanging out with someone should. If the player travels with Serana it probably means they want to be with her more than someone else. Spending time with the follower seems the correct path to me. There are so many changes going into SDA but I feel like some of the basics are missing. Looking at Serana's desire for family and the statements she makes I had hoped a bigger relationship would be created between her and Valerica. It seems really off to me that after forming an intimate relationship with the Dragonborn she has little interest in going home to tell her mother. I would also like to see her have more dialog with base game NPC's, especially ones that have been extended by mods like Mirabelle, Frea, Karliah (from Nether) and more. I welcome any additions that add more interaction and romance between the player and Serana. So many of the additions are things I will never use. The only custom follower I have in common with the mod is Auri. I don't use Vigilant. I wish Marty had added an option to pick "I don't use it" on that poll. I have loved this mod for a long time and I hate to think there will come a time that I stop wanting to update to new versions.

Where_Am_I

Thank you for the feedback! Some very good points here with both gift giving and disposition.

Martimius

Thank you!

Martimius

Yes, was thinking of something like an int variable. But this will be tricky to balance out. I don't want the mood increase/decrease events to be too little, neither do I want them to be too large (so that she is bipolar).

Martimius

Thank you!

Martimius

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll keep this in mind.

Martimius

Love the ideas you’re considering in order to expand the experience! If I could make a suggestion, there’s not a lot of comments Serana makes when you pick to be a werewolf maybe the mood feature could be affected by the fact you’re a werewolf where she comments or feels some type of way seeing you become a werewolf and such. Keep up the great work!

Those are really interesting ideas, especially the Disposition mechanic.

I think that's pretty rad! But can be tricky to implement correctly, to avoid making her bipolar :-) Like transition SAD -> HAPPY, just cause an int variable got over certain treshhold would make the sudden mood swing look odd. Maybe make it so that the states transition always through normal state, like SAD -> NORMAL -> HAPPY, or maybe just do some chill period in between affection states or smthing :-)

jedi Mosiah

Sounds like a great idea, the mood will be a unique mechanic, and the idea of supporting her first in conversations sounds like a great way for giving a unique timeline to how quickly she is friends/loves the player.

Mathew Xyro

I like the ideas in general, I'm just a bit hesitant about the gift giving thing. In RL you don't usually shower your lover, much less your friends in gifts every few days. You might give them gifts for certain occasions (Birthdays, anniversaries, after having to travel alone, etc.) Perhaps you also occasionally bring a few flowers, some sweets or a similar minor thing just because. I could easily degenerate the gift giving feature into something that just results in cluttering up Seranas inventory more, as players feel compelled to give her gift every few days at least (playing through Skyrim is a bit of a life in fast-forward mode). Nice that you gifted her yet another necklace, but she will (and should) keep using the one that gives her 40% Fire Resist anyway, so ... The disposition thing is also something that could be great or terrible (or even both). Serana already has the tendency to coax the player into the traditional good guy role and I'm so far ok with that. However, if it goes out of hand I could see that becoming a problem. For example, she argues against killing Nilsine during the Mourning Never Comes quest. That's fine. I would not like it, if I still decided to go after Nilsine and that damages the relationship with Serana, a snide or dissapointed comment is one thing, a serious setback in the relation is another. It's also a question of resources. It's great if Serana becomes a bit more life like, but then I don't want her to become an actual cyber girlfriend. I want her to spice up playing Skyrim. So personally, I'm more highly interested in her having more interactions with other followers (i.e. different ones than those already covered) and to be able to recognize and react to non-vanilla content. Personally, I would prioritize that over a deeper relationship system.

Cederien

Thanks. Sadly for recipients I'm not noted for my brevity, but at least it shows I'm thinking carefully about things and contemplating different angles! :D

Ben Dornie

Long, but great feedback! Will keep this in mind.

Martimius

Thank you for the feedback! Will keep this in mind. Yeah gonna take some time before this is implemented.

Martimius

You've made some some intriguing suggestions here Marty, my thoughts below! Gift Giving: I'm happy with this idea and would also like to see her be able to appreciate a greater range of gifts. For example, it would be nice if she could react positively to being given money (I'm not aware of any NPC who does this and it irks me!) and, just maybe, she can find a way to spend it to actually buy things for herself and for her partner? I think it would also be great to have a mechanism to specifically train her up permanently in a stat over time. For example, she's hopeless at Restoration so it would be nice over time to be able to improve her in that so that she can learn and use healing spells to good effect. Obviously it could be changed in the console, but I suspect she wouldn't be interested in Restoration spells anyway if I did that - I don't know how that mechanic works. Serana Moodswings: I'm happy with the idea of this in general, and agree with you about preventing her using inappropriate comments depending on the circumstances, but I also feel it would need to be implemented carefully as it might put people off her if she spends too much time being serious/gloomy. I'm sure a lot of people play computer games as a form of escapism to give themselves a mental boost (that's certainly true for me), so having a companion who's miserable too much wouldn't be a great thing IMO. Then again, feeling that you have the tools available to be able to help her through such emotions and for her to emerge feeling better could also help the player's own mood. I've coincidentally already shared my thoughts with you on her reaction to weather. I know its a vanilla trait that she moans about the weather, but Skyim has a lot of bad weather and harsh environments, so for her to be regularly whinging about it is a negative thing for me. Therefore I wouldn't welcome something that made her even more weather-averse. By way of an example, a couple in love can react very positively to inclement weather and turn it into a fun, even sensual, thing and my preference would be for Serana to be capable of having that kind of moodswing as well as wanting to moan about the weather at times like we all do. There should be a wide range of things that can make her happy, so that you don't get that much of a sense that the only things she really wants are alcohol and sex! One idea maybe is that she could have favourite places whereby taking her to them improves her mood and/or disposition? In general terms, Serana clearly yearns to be more *carefree* and emotionally unencumbered. Also, should the player wish to go down the romance route with her, she becomes head over heels in love. Consequently, in combination with the disposition idea, perhaps over time, as her disposition improves, her mood develops accordingly too so that she becomes more likely to be playful/happy and less time being sad. I'm being simplistic here but am sure you know what I mean. That would put her on a journey to achieving her wish of becoming carefree and it would be great for the player to be able to feel that they've helped her to achieve that during a playthrough. That's not to say that she would become more incapable of reading the room of course! Disposition: Your idea makes eminent sense and would would certainly add more depth and realism to her. I wouldn't want it to be too much of a slog to make her behave in a friendly way towards me though. After all, whilst it would only be natural for her to be wary initially, the player is the one who releases her from centuries of incarceration and unimaginable loneliness, so that should count for something! What would concern me is having things outside my control that affect her disposition towards me. Going back to my weather example, adventuring takes place in all weathers and is a fact of life, so I don't want to be feeling a temptation to leave her at home because I think she'll think badly of me for making her go out when it's raining or snowing. I suppose you could provide settings for players to be able to guide things of this kind based on their personal preferences, but you also may well not want the increased programming complexity, and Serana's increased behavioural rigidity, that would come with it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and seeking out opinions.

Ben Dornie

The fact you’d even bring up Serana mood is beautiful man, if this comes to fruition i sincerely believe it will cause your mod to be even more famous, but in all seriousness this is a great idea, at times Serana is a bit odd when certain just happened. Ex: in dawnguard we just found out the how and why the prophecy that’s been affecting Serana’s life for so long came to be, us rooting for her as she lifts that dumb snow elf by the neck and then after the fights all said and done I thought maybe she has something to say if I ask her what’s on your mind and she says something about what the Dwemer were like, or try to make a joke, or say something flirty, like damn she got over it fast, yes its the script but having her mood lock a few dialogue options out for a few minutes is more than fine to feel Immersed. When or even if Serana Mood gets implemented ifs still a great idea and I hope we don’t have to wait till 4.0+ to get it but if we must it will be a great thing to look forward to

Soliman