The Annoying Patreon Fee Change

So happy to get an email with an apology from them and the news they won't be rolling out the fee changes! Yay. Maybe they are not totally evil :P

Sarah

So weird - I got an email about the fee change but no follow up email from Patreon with the apology and explaining they were backtracking on this. So bizarre - maybe my email will come at some point.

It helped.... they will not implement the before mentioned pay ent fees anyway. 😃 just got an email from patreon,

Because Why-Nerd

What do you think "each individual pledge" means? That's plain English right there: the new service fee will apply to EACH INDIVIDUAL PLEDGE YOU MAKE. So if you pledge to 10 different creators, Patreon is going to attach a service fee to EACH ONE OF THOSE TEN.

James M.

This is without a doubt flat out horrible. I'm thinking about switching to just PayPal for my own Patrons. Like you suggested, I don't want people that support others to eat more fees on top of this. Ridiculous. Thanks for sharing this, I appreciate it.

Hey, one of your $1 subs here. Is there some way we can PayPal you a lump sum, say $15, for the entire year? I know that's a headache, but as someone who subscribes to a LOT of people at the $1 level this is going to kill me...

Also im not sure it will help but I submitted an issue through their zendesk support platform expressing my concern with how broken the new model is. Maybe of enough people do that they'll change course?

JohnnyCache

Clint, i want to cancel my recurring donations through this platform, but I don't want to stop contcontributing to you. I greatly enjoy all of your content and want to continue to support your channels. Please let me know how i can continue to contribute.I dont care if i lose the ability to see your content early.

JohnnyCache

"Starting December 18th, we will apply a new service fee of 2.9% + $0.35 that patrons will pay for each individual pledge." It isn't 'per payment' at all.

Ant Field

My suggestion is to move over to an open source platform such as liberapay.com sorry clint. It's not you it's Patreon over valuing their position as a middle man. Greed

D Money

It's going to be a fee per payment now, that's the change.

You are worth it. I'm staying

Patreon is making money on the fees. I support a few channels, and it's all done in one transaction, so one fee, but every channel I support is paying the fee.

Ant Field

Clint - sorry about this. I don't know if you've heard of LON.TV, but he has an excellent breakdown of this issue. <a href="https://youtu.be/h3BjZVcQ2sw" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/h3BjZVcQ2sw</a> Speaking of which, would you be interested in using DonorBox.org? Looks to be legit (for now! lol) I will make damn sure to keep the contributions coming, as it is worth the investment.

Can I just send you a yearly amount all at once through paypal?

Matthew Belshan

I'm only at a dollar right now, I can afford to eat what they charge me. Seems like a bonehead move on their part. People like to know what they pay up front, not with fees later. Imagine if they did that with gasoline?

Brandon Mingo

I'll keep supporting you, even with the extra fee. It's bullshit but I don't think the creators should have to pay for Patreon's mistakes. (telling this to everyone I back) (except Jeph, let him wonder)

Phil Nadeau

Hey this is a neat idea! I wonder if it would work for Clint as far as business stuff goes. (I admit I have zero idea about all that) I wouldn't want it to be more work for him to deal with (accounting, taxes etc)

Sarah

My sincere apologies Clint. I'll have to drop my pledge slightly to adjust for budget constraints. I truly hope I am in the minority and that most people won't be affected by this change. to be honest this has more to do with the Australian dollar than this change, but nevertheless, It's the creators that are going to feel it. Love your stuff mate, Goodluck and kind regards.

I agree completely mate.. Sadly though, there's no way to fight back against Patreon without hurting the creator, and I think they know this. I already have my patronage up'd as AUD's aren't worth shit, and now this.. Gonna have to sleep on it I think.. But I believe I'll find myself all more angry as you yourself.

You have to raise your pledge to $1.62 as seen here: <a href="https://i.redd.it/c0x245ow1m201.png" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://i.redd.it/c0x245ow1m201.png</a> Although that includes VAT which might not apply to you.

I believe it's automatically added. After sleeping on it, I thought I would have more perspective on the matter. But I'm just angrier. I do this for a living and everything about the communication, conception and implementation was just terrible. I'm moving to supporting artists via paypal if applicable. I was under the impression that Patreon was a community, but it's not. They requested ZERO insight from Patrons and it means they don't care. I mean, fuck, crowdsource your community. We got all kinds of smart people. Just ask us for Christ sake. But for me, the mask has been taken off.

Jo

So if we are at the $1 tier, and we want to stay there (at minimum), do we need to raise our pledge, or will Patreon automatically adjust for that when processing?

Zem Hysong

My other question is this....Is Patreon absorbing the risk associated with chargebacks? If that is on the creator, then that paints this new structure in an ever more inisidious light. (I'm in the payments industry.) 2.9% +.35 is a fairly high charge. However, E-Commerce has a higher risk of chargebacks which is the justification for those higher rates. However, if the creator is the carrying the risk, then that is total B.S. However, if the Patreon is carrying the risk, then it's more reasonable.

Jo

I'll continue pledging the same amount or more to my patreons. I can afford the fee and I would rather keep supporting you guys than pay you less or none at all.

Alyxx the Rat

This is such utter balls. I'm not stopping this one, nor a few certain others, but I had to axe another Patreon contribution already and I'll be thinking hard about the rest on my list. I hope Patreon sees an appropriate amount of losses/backlash over this.

FizzPlease

Due to the decision by Patreon, I have now ended all my $1 pledges, and I'm still considering what to do with the rest. Unfortunately my idea of putting Patreon to best use (ie support a larger number of creators with a smaller amount of money), just had a 40% price hike tagged on to it. It doesn't feel fair to give one creator all the total pledging amount, and drop the rest, so sadly everybody loses. Clint, if you have any other means of supporting you please let us know!

Erwin Bierhof

If you now pay a dollar per month, then you'll be paying $1 + $0.35 + $0.029 = $1.38. That is nearly 40% more than you're paying now. The extra fee is 35 cents + 2.9 percent of the value of the transaction. Of course this is still excluding VAT, which is dependent on the country you live in. For me for example the VAT is 21% which make a single dollar pledge cost me $1.65, and this is still without conversion cost from Euro to US Dollar, so the true cost is probably around $1.70.

Erwin Bierhof

I'll keep up the support until you find a good alternative. Patreon needs to make money, i get that, but this just hits small contributors too hard.

Bill Viney

I only pledge a dollar a month (I am poor, sorry :p), yet I'm still confused about how much exactly I'll be paying in the near future. I'll keep supporting until an alternative comes up though.

Marnix

Ditto!

BuzzMoo

I'll be sticking around, but this new fee that they're tacking on made it so I had to drop support for others that I subscribe to.

Evangeline Domenech

I'll be sticking around.

Kijikun

It's such a strange choice. I'm just a 'supporter' and have always known Patreon makes its living on fees, but having them built in such a way as to be transparent to the majority just makes things easier. Either way, I won't be dropping my subscriptions. I hope it works out for you!

JennaKay

Same here on all counts.

evistre

If you end up moving to a competing service, I'll follow. As it is, I've got to restructure my collection of small contributions into fewer larger ones

Tanner Schultz

Can I just send you a check for $60 for my 2018 schedule contribution?

Ryan Kelly

Call me naive but I actually thought Patreon took their mission to heart. I didn't expect something like this until the reality of it slapped me in the face. Silly me I guess...

Jonathan Patterson

This is shit, especially because it's going to cost you support from those people who are doing it tough or supporting a lot of creators with a small amount in month. Just doubled my pledge to help out.

Chris Cook

Yeah. The email was unnecessarily verbose and vague. I skimmed through it and didn't realize they were announcing new fees for patrons until one of the other creators I back posted a statement similar to Clint's.

Jonathan Patterson

Honestly, I've been asked by organizations in the past if I wouldn't mind pitching in to cover the fees, and I've always elected to help out. But I think it's kind of crappy that Patreon isn't giving anyone the choice; it's just a blanket policy. Regardless, thank you for your understanding. I'm not going anywhere.

Alexandra Marie

I’m not going to cancel my pledge as I want to continue to support you. I hope Patreon reverses course or allows Creators to opt-in to the old fee system. I'm all for Creators getting a larger cut, but this new fee schedule and the way it was communicated sucks.

Michael Dragone

I've been subbed to your channel since about 6.000 subs and I know I don't pledge much, but I've doubled it because of this... I hope more people will, so it will even out a bit for loosing Patrons. Keep it up with the great content.

This is an evil evil move on Patreon's part! Ugh. I hate when companies are like this. Lately I'm almost more surprised when companies do something genuinely good, I've just given up and started assuming they will always do something evil or to benefit themselves despite hurting others. But I admit I didn't think they'd go this far, to ruin the whole schtick they had going with small pledges from a bunch of people supporting creators. What angers me even more is that I can see that it's billed as only one lump sum transaction on my credit card bill. So it's pretty obvious they themselves are not paying those individual transaction fees. Just a cash grab and passing it off as "helping their creators have a more regular income" argh that really gets my goat. Despicable. I'll have to see who I can afford to keep supporting but honestly Clint you are my favorite creator I support (shh don't tell the others :P) so you're safe.

Sarah

I’m not going anywhere - appreciate your content!

Same here, I'm also on disability so I know what you mean. But I really do want to support creators of awesome stuff so giving 5$ a month to 5 different people worked out so well for me. Also for me the exchange rate from Cad dollars to USD makes it cost more as well. I don't need 5 x 35 cents added on top of that! :(

Sarah

I’m a broke student and already had to reduce my pledges down to bare bones this month to afford Christmas and all that brings. This, on top of VAT, is not a cost I can justify. I’d rather buy merch or donate elsewhere in bulk than line the pockets of Patreon after they’ve gone back on the whole ‘no fees for Patrons’ part of their schtick. I’m sorry, and if they drop the charges I’ll return, but VAT already ups what I pledge my a fifth, adding another 40% on top of that almost doubles what I’m sending creators’ way and I just can’t justify it. I’ll be buying merch come January though!

This is also of questionable legality. For example, in Texas, you are not allowed to pass fees off to customers. I'm sure they vetted and realized the risk was low for legal action...but regardless.

Jo

Hi Clint, what you are saying and doing is very much appreciated. I'm not going to compensate, despite Patreon's payment changes. ;)

Rudo de Jong

I'm so sorry, you have no idea, but I have to vote with my wallet. If they change this back I'll be back, no worries.

I pledge $1 per month to 3 creators because even I can manage that in spite living on disability benefits, which is not the monyspiner some people seem to think it is. It’s a source of pride to me that I can manage this (and £3GBP to charities) a month on a very low income but I may have to rethink what I contribute to as a result of this change. :/

Nicholas Wilson

I'm sorry to say that I've canceled my pledge to you and all other people I was donating to as well. I'd be pleased to buy some merch or support your channel in other ways, but I'll no longer be doing such through patreon.

I've been working on starting my own YouTube channel about computer history, and I just set up a Patreon page that only my dad and one friend have joined. Now I'm having second thoughts about the whole thing. Between this and the YouTube Adpocalypse, the whole venture seems pointless.

Steve Lovelace

I upped my pledge to five bucks. Love your content.

ParanoidBob

I knew that Patreon was going to take advantage of the Adpocalypse some day but this is dumb, oh well. I'll continue to support you!

SammyToesis

Ugh. I'm gonna keep my pledge going 'cause LGR is awesome, but it's annoying to get charged three times (once for the actual pledge, once for this new fee, and once for VAT). Perhaps the outcry will be large enough that they'll reconsider...I ain't getting my hopes up, though.

Tim

This is utter nonsense. The only way to make this fair would be to cancel all my pledges but one and give all the money to that one, then rotate them every month. Yes, it's annoying to me and I'd have to spend several months without Patreon benefits for each creator, but at least I would be giving them all the intended fee without supporting this terrible new system.

Pablo Rodriguez

I wish I could pledge more but I'll continue to support you in what little way I can. Watching your videos is the closest I can get to owning some of these awesome machines &amp; seeing you talk about them makes me happy! Keep up the amazing work!

Aye, I know many people are doing the same as you. This is going to hurt smaller channels a lot more than it does me, I imagine, and that sucks.

LGR

They only announced it this morning, so there's that. But typically I lose pledges in November anyway, with people leaving to put their money towards holiday expenses. You can check your exit surveys in the patron dashboard to see their reasons why.

LGR

Man, this sucks. I support a bunch of creators, and I'm going to have to drop some, because this increases my monthly Patreon to a point I can't justify. I'll keep LGR and other channels, but those "secondary" creators I was supporting will have to go, I guess. :(

Aleisha

Well yeah, us creators *can* make more this way. But it is genuinely bothersome to me that it happens at the patron's expense rather than mine. And that I don't have a choice in the matter.

LGR

I haven't really had a chance to read up on the changes. But I had noticed a significant drop in my Patreon money the last few weeks. I assumed it was just because I had finally reached the peak of whatever my viewer base was going to pledge. After all, Patreon has grown a little bit for me every month since I started it. I knew it would have to stop somewhere. However, now I'm beginning to realize it probably has more to do with this issue.

The 8-Bit Guy

I thoroughly enjoy LGR and don't plan on going anywhere any time soon- and I do kind-of see that they are trying to stay ahead of the fees that their credit card processors are going to be charging them- that being said, wherever you plan to make your home for patronage, I will always support. Thanks! :D

Robert Butler

how badly would this extra charge affect those of us having VAT added to the total cost?

Thanks for the Reddit link. It helped clarify what is going on. I got that email from Patreon earlier today regarding this and I was all, "...huh? Are they charging more?" I guess they are. It's like a tax for donating :-/ But I'm doing my best to hang in there and stay on Patreon for as long as I can. I do hope they change this policy in the future, though. :(

Lindsay Michelle

I discovered that even though the way it's being presented is boneheaded, if I adjust ALL of my reward tiers here on Patreon to compensate for the fee change and all of my supporters adjust their pledges as well... I actually do earn slightly more money than on the current system. It's such a small difference that I'm good either way, but that's my plan if the new fees do go into effect on the 18th. :B

Kris Asick

So, yeah, set up a Paypal subscription or something, Clint! I'll use that.

James S. Aaron

I just wrote to Patreon to let them know I will find a way to support creators outside their service.

James S. Aaron

Thank you for being open about this. While I have no intention of canceling any of my current pledges, charging me a 38% fee on a $1 pledge means I won't be supporting any new creators. Which is a shame.

Charlotte Grubbs

Stanley: the way it has been announced the "point" is to have fixed fees, so it should apply to PayPal too

That sure is going to kill off many new potential pledges also. I don't get why they insist on charging 35c per pledge, considering they aggregate all the pledges to a single card transaction. I admit I'm one of the $1 per pledge people as it means I'm happy to support multiple channels. However, this change now means I'll paying an extra 47% (3c + 35c + 23% Irish VAT) per month.

Seán Byrne

Even though this sucks, when I read the mail earlier today, I was like "Eh.. what else is new?!". We live in a world based on steady inflation, so these things are bound to happen. I live in Norway, the land taxes out the wazoo. They recently slapped a huge toll road tax and increased rush hour peaks and whatnots. I'm used to being leeched every which way. Bah! But luckily I'm selling quite a few things in my store for The 8-Bit Guy and myself so every time someone buys something, you guys are actually contributing back to The 8-Bit Guy, LGR, Techmoan and a handful of others - while getting hand crafted products to enjoy. :) You still got my support Clint!

Anders Enger Jensen

So dou we know if this change effects people who pledge through PayPal?

I've made my suggestions in the post above regarding pledge lowering. Beyond that is up to you and your finances 👍

LGR

Clint what do you suggest to do? I want to keep supporting your and others' work!

Already had to cancel a few subs. But don’t worry Clint you’re amongst the few on my list I would never abandon! Let’s hope they change it back so I can go back supporting the other guys as well!

Timo Schmidt

The cynic in my thinks Patreon already expected that this would drive some patrons away, but estimated that they (Patreon, not the creators) would still come out ahead.

Jonathan Patterson

I give small pledges so I can give some to more creators (many deserve something!), so I'm not happy with that change either

An additional $0.38 but if you have multiple $1 pledges then it's that multiplied.

Vaggumon

So what exactly is the fee for those of us who can only afford to pledge $1?

I'll wait it out for a month and see what my losses are

sufferd748

Thanks for the reddit link. I hadn't realized how the 35 cent fee affect per video pledges. Had to go change all of my per video pledges to a single video at my monthly max. Jebus, this was a terrible change....

Jonathan Patterson

Nah, it's likely more about Patreon business stuff. Here's a thread of tweets that speculate: <a href="https://twitter.com/cwbuecheler/status/938787629738397696" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/cwbuecheler/status/938787629738397696</a>

LGR

You are a scholar and a gentleman. My pledge is remaining the same. I have however been very vocal to Patreon about how dumb I think this move is.

Retail Archaeology

Is this due to inflation because I'm on SSI and I recently got a letter in the mail telling me that my payments are going up at the beginning of next year due to inflation. because the cost of Medicine and such is going up they are trying to compensate for it.

Terry Lee

Don’t worry, I don’t mind personally. Honestly it’s just fine to me. It also means I get to see the fees they charge instead of them being hidden.

Andrew Paul

Mad respect to ya for this, Clint. As someone who really only has the budget for $1 pledges w/o fees, this is nothing short of a terrible change. Here's hoping the pushback would be big enough to allow old style of pledging, or if nothing else a exodus to another service.

Curus Keel

I was just about to ask this. Thank you for the heads up. Although I don't know if PayPal charges some fee to Clint, because in that case I'd rather pay those through Patreon than making him do it

LJFox

I sell socks on occasion, but that's about it :) There's always PayPal but their fees are often even higher than here so I don't recommend if you're worried about that kinda thing.

LGR

Clint does have a Paypal link on lazygamereviews.com if you’d rather donate through there. I’m considering doing that to stick it to Patreon for this change.

And this is why you are a sir of sirs! I aint changing a thing, you deserve the best!

Naoki Saito

Yea saw the email earlier and was thinking what a bunch of BS. Not going to not support you though just because they make a boneheaded decision

Clint, this sucks. Is there any other way we can support you? :) Maybe buying LGR merchandise? (and boo, Patreon!)

Thomas Fuchs

I hope they will realize this change isn't a good thing, considering how many creators aren't thrilled about it. Eitherway, I plan to keep my pledge the same. :)

ReeseRiverson

Clint, you are too damn likeable. You are such a great guy!

Stigg Bernard

I was kinda happy to help pay your fees, but I understand and thank you!