57. The Saint (Mother Teresa)

Great episode. Hitchens did himself no favors; like so many professional atheists, he came across so snide and dismissive that you didn't want him on your side.

Pete Milan

Ah! Ma T! What a fucking fucking fucking CUNT

Maxine Page

I work in a second hand bookshop and we have a fair few books about how Mother T’s wonderful. I want to burn them all.

LMadds

That music with the kids gets me EVERY time I hear it.

sucriC drawkcaB

Word.

Pandicorn Time's mom

This episode was truly masterful. Just as we are all desperately grasping at our last remaining iota of hope for humanity, in comes ACC to smash the myth of Mother Fucking Mother Teresa. 🤯

Tara Daktyl

;)

Swindled

Is it possible to fall in love with someone based solely on their voice and podcast? But seriously, I love you, ACC! I truly love your podcast and your voice has become my comfort and gets me through my work days! Thank you for all your hard work and creativity. The world is so much better knowing you’re in it (sorry, not trying to be mushy...just obsessed with you and Swindled)!

Jami Canavit

You are killing it this season. RIP Mother Theresa... Thank you, ACC.

Sarah

"Human garbage can Laura Ingram." Just call me a prime number right now because I can't EVEN

Jonas

i love you

chelsea

My favorite podcast just released my favorite episode. Seriously, this was amazing. Thank you for your research, perspective, and whimsical commentary on such a challenging topic. To stop the swindlers, we first have to agree to whom they are. And right now, even calling out some openly causes controversy. This sort of media makes this discourse possible.

SuperWhimsy

This was incredible. I'd heard only fragments over the years, and only then 'cos my mom is a lapsed Catholic. I hope you're not taking any more heat than normal over this one - keep up the good work, man.

zoem

This episode made me uncomfortable.

Ah Mother!!!

Celine

Holy crap! I had no idea that mother Theresa was a terrible person and a pawn. I'm not religious so I didn't know much about her. I thought she was a nice lady that helped the poor and dying. This podcast completely changes my perspective on her! she’s in our daily vernacular her name is synonymous with absolute goodness and selflessness. Thank you for making his podcast and educating me.

KS

Brilliant episode S. Knew this would stir up some controversy on here. Love it 😊

Iain Strachan

"I'd also invite you to watch Season 1 of The Young Pope" - hey, let's use fiction as an example instead of reality!

MBA

The reddit post says we shouldn't judge Mother Teresa because the rest of India was just as bad or worse. To which I say "of course we can, wasn't she getting tons of donations?" That reddit post is disingenuous bullshit.

MBA

You and me both. "Better to win by admitting my sin than to lose with a halo"

Jerry Salisbury

And wanted to ban burqas is like wanting to ban business suits because a few corrupt companies force it's employees to wear them.

MBA

“A whole life of servitude only to get a promotion to middle management.” I love your one-liners so much.

Ken Smith

You can find someone disagreeable and abrasive -- I have no great love for Hitchens, though I believe he was a brilliant man and certainly credible enough to be chosen by the Catholic Church as an official Devil's Advocate -- but there are times when even the most unpleasant people have points worth considering.

KatieK

Hey, ACC. I'm actually with you more or less 75% of the way when it comes to Mother Teresa and the abuses she committed. I just think you lent more credence to critical accounts than the fact that there were other positions on her, and the generally poor state of India itself in the decades during which she operated. And let us not forget that India is subject to sectional and religious differences and there is a strong undercurrent of Hindu nationalism amongst many local politicians, all of whom would have a variety of reasons to engage in the ridicule of Catholic, and in particular Latin Catholic, activities (as Malankara Christians are often considered "local" and so given preferential treatment). My issue with MT is that many of the arguments around her activities essentially require one to assume she had total control and knowledge. Despite her controlling nature, I do not believe this was something she actually possessed. With that being said, I thank you for your research, for your measured and thoughtful responses, and for the continuing work you do to expose the white collar criminals of this world. I also do not wish to denigrate the experience or knowledge of the people who worked hard on exposing the atrocities they observed, and applaud you for not being afraid to talk about them. I'd also invite you to watch Season 1 of The Young Pope to see an interesting take on a proxy story to Mother Teresa and how the showrunner felt ecclesiastical/religious justice should be dispensed against them.

Alex Martin

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with saints.

KatieK

I haven't had a chance to look at that reddit post, but again, Hitchens was only one of the critics. There's also Chatterjee, S. Bedford, and a slew of former volunteers such as Mary Loudon, Susan Shields, etc. Not to mention the Canadian researchers and Bikash Ranjan Bhattacharya, the former mayor of Calcutta.

Swindled

I find his views on abortion problematic.

KatieK

Well, ACC, I must state that I think you do your usual rigor a disservice. This was found by me with a quick Google search, and I only did so because I feel that Hitchens was one of the more disingenuous amongst the breed of atheists. There were wonderful people of such beliefs such as Stephen J Gould and Carl Sagan, but Hitchens really liked to ramp up the controversy to build his own cult following, and it shows in the lackluster sensationalism of many of his works. Just because you have critiques of the Church and its many wings in plastering over the abuses and mismanagement of Teresa and cohorts doesn't mean you should automatically accept people such as Hitchens as credible. The man had grand ego, a desire to sell books, and a massive bone to pick, and those do not in my books disqualify ones account. But neither do his critiques and beliefs make his position or assertions accurate and I feel disappointed because your research historically speaking has been so much more detailed. On top of that, to take Hitchens as credible, a man who wore his agenda on his sleeve, but to then discredit or discount the opinions of Catholic sources doing the same does not seem fair. I understand you are one Citizen with one opinion and channel, but if you discount the facts to arrive at a notion that agrees with your own worldview, is that not the exact thing you critique in those who blindly embrace and praise Teresa? The poet Dante argued that simoners, hypocrites, and ecclesiastical criminals would roast deeper in hell than atheists, heretics, or murderers, and I invite you to see that people of religious conviction would look (and indeed, do look) upon many of the behaviors identified in the practices of Teresa with extreme distaste and oftentimes outright condemnation. I want to be clear, too: I have some faith. I am of the Orthodox persuasion, but that doesn't take away from the fact I enjoy your podcast and respect your difference of opinion from my own, as well as the fact that you do a great job calling out fraudsters and con artists wherever you see them. I do, however, invite you to consider that it is just as easy to fall prey to our own convictions or preconceptions when critiquing others, and therefore overlooking the bad faith and sensationalism of many of the sources trying to provide one perspective on a complex issue. Had you been lampooning more cut and dry case of clerical corruption, such as the sale of indulgences, the complicity of the Patriarch of Romania with Ceausescu (indeed, many priests broke the seal of confession to report on parishioners to the Securitate), or the entire Avignon Papcy I'd applaud your perspective. Here though I think you gave into the opinions too easily of someone arguing in bad faith against a woman who was, admittedly, poor at her job and subject to a variety of troublesome beliefs and bad actions. But to take the Hitchens perspective largely uncritically is, in my estimation, not what your podcast has usually done.

Alex Martin

The difference in your response to his criticism and mine is jarring.

KatieK

Thanks! I'll check out the link. I did search for resources that discounted Hitchens' claims but most of them came from individuals or groups related to the Catholic church, which doesn't hold much water with me. On the other hand, I found multiple sources and volunteer accounts backing up Hitchens' accusations. I'll definitely take a look. Thanks for sharing.

Swindled

I'm a big fan of the podcast and have been a patron for years, but I really didn't like this episode. I'm not even particularly pro-Teresa or her methods, but I felt this podcast essentially parroted the opinions of Hitchens with minimal scrutiny. This surprises me as ACC is usually quite critical. Even a typical Google search brought me an excellently researched post on Reddit that gives an academic and balanced critique of much of the content in this episode. https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gcxpr5/saint_mother_teresa_was_documented_mass_murderer/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body Love the podcast, love the host, not a fan of the episode.

Alex Martin

apologies for the wall of text, I legit don't know how to work this thing. also my bad on that being slightly illegible but im only gonna put in so much effort.

Talia Floyd

Do you mean to tell me the Catholic church isn't a feminist organization? Someone contact CNN, this is big news! Sarcasm aside, what I'm attempting to point out is that when folks talk about the population being to large this is sometimes a dog whistle for eugenicists. Further the problem with overpopulation isn't that lots of humans are inherently bad. Overpopulation becomes a problem when there aren't enough resources to go around. If the resources were evenly distributed then we could easily point the finger at places with large populations and say "hey you bitches need to get it under control" but the people who are consuming the overwhelming majority of the resources arent being used by the poorest people. Countries like Bahrain, Qatar, Denmark and the US have enormous footprints so in order to maintain their lifestyle and spare the world a climate disaster (worse than it already is although maybe its too late lol) wouldn't it make the most sense to curb their populations? I'm totally for contraceptives and I'm not under the impression that the catholic church and its many institutions are benevolent, at least not under my personal definition of the word. I would add that birth and child rearing is incredibly expensive in much of the developed world so whether people are choosing to have less kids because they want less kids or because they want to give the best quality of life to the kids they choose to have. They have the amount they think they can afford and stop there.

Talia Floyd

Burqa is not a hijab or even niqab. Burga covers the entire face, niqab lets you see the eyes, the hijab allows you to see the face.

Mischa Wik

I’d posit Mother Teresa is a racist colonialist tool of the Catholic Church. They want to spread the faith, no matter what, and that is why they are against abortion (abortion=less people =less believers) no matter how much unnecessary suffering it means. It’s a well documented fact that more developed nations with more liberated/emancipated women have less offspring. Even within these countries, the more educated and emancipated = the less offspring per woman. The Catholic Church is against liberating women. I understand where you’re coming from though, absolutely.

Mischa Wik

“Human Garbage Can Laura Ingraham” 😩💀

Claire Gysegem

There's a difference between "imperfect" and "Iraq War supporter who wanted to ban burqas." It's good to have standards.

MBA

Woah I guess I'm gonna need to listen to this one.... reading comments above saying Mother Theresa is no saint!?!?! I guess I've been living under a rock because I am unaware of anything negative around Mother Theresa! I've been type who takes people at their words my entire life but past 5 or so years my eyes have been opened and I kinda wish I could go back to being a naive citizen it was easier that way...but I'm not able to do that. Sooo looking forward to hearing some new information!! I love Swindled Podcast!

Jennifer Wurfel

Literally nobody is perfect...

Mischa Wik

I’m so happy I got to see him in Atlanta in 2007. He was a gem!

Mischa Wik

I always get suspicious when people start talking about how there are too many people, particularly when it's brown people there happen to be too many of. Like do they mean in the sense that folks should have the option to control if or when they get pregnant? Do they mean the environment can't support the size of the population? Or do they mean there are too many brown people for their tastes? Of course the opposite, encouraging people to have pregnancies regardless of circumstance, is blatantly malicious. I'm always low-key on the lookout for eugenics because I find it really terrifying and fascinating. I don't have a conclusion to this thought lol. It's just something that came to mind while listening.

Talia Floyd

Great podcast, as usual!

Stephanie Morson

RIP Hitchens, the world needs another Christopher now more than ever. This episode convinced me to subscribe to patreon. Don't stop!

Kiwi Critic

Been waiting for this one. Nobody who cites her knows anything about her. We have Hitchens to thank.

Christiano Maldini

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Malcolm Muggeridge turned out to be a serial groper, even while he was on a puritanical crusade against sex. What a bastard.

MBA

Yass

Nicole Daenzer

Yeah he's an absolute piece of work. So hateful.

Lollypops

It's too bad Hitchens went into Islamophobia burqa banning whacko-land. "He who fights monsters..."

MBA

😯

Susansterlingg

One of my favourite things to do is tell people how terrible she is and it blows people's minds!

Lollypops

She was a total fraud. Terrible woman

Louise Tetley

Sooo.. this is super dark. I know I have heard some of it before, but this really nails the cross to the wall one might say.. Excellent episode, - as always. 😌🙌👏

Just Weronicha

OMG This is IT

Sim Ona

Oh man!!! Listening now!!!

Juan Lavigueur

I have wanted this for ages, so excited. I know people have said she was actually awful but know nothing.

Theresa

See you in hell!

Jerry Salisbury

As a fellow concerned citizen, I appreciate this podcast. ❤

Jessi

Awesome! When I tell ppl how horrible Mother Theresa was they look at me like I’m crazy.

Marcie

Oooooo I know this one's gonna be good

Sophia Stahl