Supernatural - 8x23 "Sacrifice" Full Reaction
Added 2021-11-21 00:49:40 +0000 UTC
Comments
The whole closing the gates of Hell never made much sense to me. It’s like they jumped at the idea like it was a massive band-aid over a bullet hole because it was never clear what it meant. What would happen to the demons currently possessing humans? Would they just get stuck here, or be sucked back into Hell the moment the gates were shut, or would they still have to hunt them and perform exorcisms? Shutting the gates of Hell would not have allowed Sam or Dean to have a “normal” life because not all monsters come from Hell. It does close out the prophet storyline partially unless there are monster tablets like the Leviathan, Angel, Demon tablets were discovered when needed. The tablet storylines never made much sense, I mean, how much info was actually written there? It ranged from taking minutes to months for translating based on when the story needed it. Spells, trials, bombs, god powers, summonings? We never find out if they can resume and allow Dean or someone else to complete the trials? If that was such a big issue everyone had - then I really wish this was referenced but the storyline was already muddy so who knows?
CrystalDeth
2024-01-22 22:23:42 +0000 UTCKevin said “I don’t have any friends” lol when Dean said “no keggers” when he gave him the bunker key
Armystic
2023-09-10 11:18:07 +0000 UTCI remember seeing a panel before S12 started and Jared said that his favorite episodes of the series are Swan Song and Sacrifice. But of course, that could’ve changed by the end of the series.
Tara
2022-10-30 00:00:56 +0000 UTCThe angels have been cast out of heaven there not human there still angels but angels thrown out of there home and Cas is now human because his grace was taken.
Daniel Lewis
2021-11-23 11:42:18 +0000 UTCYou say expelling the angels is a good thing. I can't help but think it's not. They're bound to be pissed, and who are they going to blame? Castiel, as usual, I'm sure. He keeps making mistakes and trusting the wrong people. Like you said, he should've asked for help <b>first</b>, before trusting a sibling (Metatron, this case). I think Naomi really wasn't a bad angel, except for her wanting Dean dead for some reason. Her whole purpose was protecting Heaven and the angel tablet. That's why she was so pissed when Castiel went missing with it. She wanted to protect it from getting into demon hands, and she was right. Crowley did take it from Cas.<p></p> <p> </p> <p>I don't think the angels that fell are human. Their grace would have to be taken, and we didn't see or hear that that took place.</p> <p>I would've loved to see a human Crowley, but at least we get to see what human Cas will be like. Mark Shepherd was amazing, as was Jared, in those church scenes. Hopefully Sam will be okay in time w/rest, but since he got so close to finishing them, I worry about his health.</p>
Amye Sabin
2021-11-23 08:36:45 +0000 UTCOkay, so like, I have no idea what comes after this. This was literally the point where I fell off of Supernatural originally. So I'm just wondering, are the fallen angels actually going to be human? That's definitely what it sounds like, but.... Lucifer fell, and he definitely still had all of his angel powers and seemed in no way to be human. If you've seen further than this episode please don't actually answer this question. It is just wild rhetorical speculation.
Melody Dia
2021-11-22 12:15:24 +0000 UTCIf I can be That Girl At The Party for a quick second at this midway point in the series, I just wanted to say that I've never engaged in a fandom before, and I'm so proud to be part of this level of discourse, dissension and agreement included. Thank you so much to everyone.
SKK
2021-11-22 08:46:55 +0000 UTCWe can debate until the cows come home that there might or might not be intentional canon Destiel in S8. Then renewal happened and they had to expand the plot arcs to pave the way for several more seasons plot arcs under the Carver era. Though they cannot blame fans at that time for predicting canon Destiel was not as farfetched as expected. Just look at the motw plot themes: - Heartache - the love story of Brick/Mayan god that wanted to die and Eleanor, a human. - Bitten - the love story of Michael/werewolf and Kate, who was also turned into a werewolf - Blood Brothers - the love story of Benny a vampire, and Andreas, a human who later was turned into a vampire - Southern Comfort - reveals more of the inner conflict between Sam and Dean - Hunteri Heroici - exposing Sam and Cas as living in a fantasy, dreamlike life moments - LARP - Gilda and Charlie as love interests - Hitler - the story of Aaron Bass, a human and his Golem - Men’s Best Friend - the love story of Portia, a familiar, and Jack, a human - Titans - Hayley/Shane (Prometheus) and the and love story of Artemis for Prometheus that eventually saves the day. - Freeks - school for hunter kids The other remaining episodes are considered mytharc ones - moving the story forward from one point to another. It is so interesting to see the broad strokes of S8 motw that had unfolded so far, in hindsight. They are mostly love stories, or mostly inter-species relationships, or more specifically between non-humans and humans. Doesn’t this theme give rise to that kind of fan expectation?
rose mnor
2021-11-22 02:52:24 +0000 UTChttps://www.google.com/search?q=destiel+isn%27t+canon+robbie&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj9wv_Fqf3zAhXskksFHQgEDb4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=destiel+isn%27t+canon+robbie&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ7wMQJ1DFDFjIFWD2GGgAcAB4AIABNIgB7gKSAQE4mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=PxiDYb2nIuylrtoPiIi08As&bih=526&biw=1164#imgrc=m97r0SjKEHtJvM
rose mnor
2021-11-22 02:34:06 +0000 UTCThis brings me to, Robbie himself tweeted the following tweet and then deleted it: "Destiel isn't canon? :)" in reply to someone who tweeted to him on Jan 19, 2013 "..... all will be forgiven if you make Destiel canon! :P" (link in the reply) Now, we can surmise that he might be joking and all that jazz but, that's not what I am aiming for. The date of that Robbie's specific tweet most likely was on or a few days after the 19th of Jan. 2013, which just happened to be a few days before the LARP episode aired on Jan 23, 2013. Which, heavily foreshadows Goodbye Stranger. When I checked the filming dates of Goodbye Stranger, they were from Jan 30 to Feb 8, 2013, so he tweeted it approximately 10 days before filming. Why did Robbie tweet that message? Maybe because he already wrote the line ‘I love you’ before there were any changes made, therefore his tweet WAS hinting at the coming canon Destiel? (though his then retraction - ‘it’s a familial declaration’ - he made during S9 to fans, I am side-eyeing him hard why though).
rose mnor
2021-11-22 02:33:31 +0000 UTCRe your : "Metatron's spell needed three components, - killing a nephilim (that was the product of angel & human love), - retrieving cupid's bow (an instrument of love) [cupid who brings romantic LOVE to HUMANS] - & cas's grace, which makes me wonder why cas? "..... i believe it had to be cas's grace since metatron killed Naomi but didn't use Naomi's grace for the spell which was right there! But instead he had to wait for cas to come back." Just imagine how much harder would the ingredients of the angel fall spell have hit us if they’d kept the “I love you” in? Like they were all about romantic love between angels and humans if there’d been a textual confirmation of how Dean felt just a few episodes earlier (regardless of Robbie's clarification as it would have been a non-event). It would have been that much more obvious why it was Cas’ grace that Metatron needed for the spell.
rose mnor
2021-11-22 02:18:27 +0000 UTCI thought Mark Sheppard’s acting was absolutely amazing here. Singing Bowie, referencing all the HBO shows (Girls! Lol!)…to his submissive baring of his neck for that last shot…just gets better every time I see it.
sarahzentexas
2021-11-21 19:45:50 +0000 UTCI agree wholeheartedly with all above. I also didn't love (the back half of) season 8 when first watching for reasons like yours. Watching with others has vastly helped me find new appreciation for it.
SKK
2021-11-21 16:46:39 +0000 UTCTrue, thank you... but I thought that was an assumption rather than something known? (Again, kind of like everyone would've thought killing Lilith was a good idea?) After all, it might be that the angel tablet spell was what expelled the angels from heaven.
SKK
2021-11-21 14:58:12 +0000 UTCSo many comments shelley hope you read this one. Time to point out interesting things i noticed. In the premiere of this season kevin was tasked by crowley to open all the hellgates but it was actually a spell on how to hurt demons. This is a parallel to metatron lying about what he was doing for heaven and casting a spell to hurt angels by casting them out like lucifer. Speaking of lucifer we got a cameo on the form of a literal picture of the devil where kevin hid the demon tablet. This is also a parallel to where the angel tablet was found which was lucifer's crypt. Naomi speech at the end is very interesting as she realizes she had failed in her true mission (which she thought was protecting heaven at all costs) but in actuality it was to protect the humans. She is like dean in that her family(angels) WAS more important then the mission she was supposed to do. But while she realized that what she is doing was too much just to protect her family dean was doing the reverse. He is willing to let demons free just to keep sam. Sam is his unicorn. He would abandon his life long goal for him. Now whether that is good or bad i will live it up to you but this season has made me realize how toxic their codependency had become. Dean tries to justify it by saying they could turn the tided but that ridiculous. When sam tried to tell him at the beginning of the season that he felt hunting was not all up to him and he ignored it dean made him look like a monster but dean is letting every demon attack that happens after this directly his fault for making sam stop just because he could not live without sam and Nobody sees how bad that is? Season 9 explores these things and and dean character more so i can not wait for you to see it later this month.
Christopher simeon
2021-11-21 12:47:17 +0000 UTCI wanted to say last episode that cas killing that nephilim for the greater pic is a parallel to Sam draining that nurse from all her blood to get to Lilith but i didn't want to insinuate that it's gonna end badly, so i was so happy that you made that connection at the beginning, the Sam cas parallels never ends, both are trying so hard to atone for their previous mistakes but never being able to. I love this episode, it's so visually pleasing but i can't help but feel the end of the trials plot is anticlimactic, we have been aiming to close the gates of hell for the whole season & the boys knew this wasn't gonna end well for whoever takes on the trials, dean said that god's missions end with one of them dying & that's why he wanted to do it himself, Sam was optimistic/ naive at first & thought he could do it & live but couple of episodes later even he admits it was naive to think so & prepared himself for what he might have to do, comparing this to swan song where Sam does the heroic sacrifice to save the world, i can't help but feel that this is the moment when the boys shift from being the heroes who sacrifice themselves to save the world to the codependent brothers who will sacrifice the world to save each other & i don't like that shift, dean's justifications are just desperate words to get Sam to stop, no matter how much knowledge they have at their disposal, they're just two people, they can't be everywhere at once, demons are thousands maybe million? Doing it one at a time is so delusional, they had a chance to end it all for good!! I do understand dean didn't wanna live without Sam yet again after losing him in swan song but at what cost! How can they sleep at night knowing that from now on every demon kill could've been prevented in this moment, yes it's not their responsibility to make the world better & yes it's too much weight on their shoulders & it's unfair but isn't that what they were trained for their whole life? Haven't they accepted years ago that they would die young on a hunt anyway? I can't think of a better way to go than saving the world, what happened to saving people, hunting things, the family business? Sam feeling like dean was replacing him with cas & Benny? Don't know where he got that from, i think Sam needs to make some friends outside of dean, dean can't continue to be the only person in his life, he can't keep trying to fill every role for him, a mother, a father, a brother, a best friend, it's too much for one person & it's not fair to dean, dean needs friends & he can't keep isolating himself from everyone to prove to & assure Sam that he's the most important person in his life, that should be a given by now! The thing about Sam is that he's very inconsistent in what he wants, he wants out of the life but he wants to end all monsters, he wants dean to stop suffocating him & let him be the grown up that he is, to let him fly the nest but when dean tries to do that he feels like he's abandoning him, in order for dean to break from that habit of being a helicopter parent, he needs to expand his circle of family so he's not so focused on sam's every move, but when he tries to do that, Sam sees it as replacing him Aaaaaaah i need them to go family counseling & learn how to coexist in a healthier way so badly lol. As for metatron, cas & the boys had no reason to not trust him after he saved Kevin but had every reason not to trust Naomi after everything she has done to cas & to innocent people in that dinner. I am so glad cas went to dean for help, isn't that what we wanted? Cas went to heaven to confront metatron about what Naomi said & see if he trusts metatron enough to go ahead with the third trial but little did he know that he himself was an ingredient to the spell that metatron was just saving for last, Cas just can't catch a break, all he wants is to fix his home, to redeem himself to his brothers & sisters, but no matter what he does, things keep getting worse, now his brothers & sisters are expelled from heaven, they can't be so happy about that, Metatron's spell needed three components, killing a nephilim (that was the product of angel & human love), retrieving cupid's bow (an instrument of love) & cas's grace, which makes me wonder why cas? & Did it have to be cas or was any angel's grace going to do, i believe it had to be cas's grace since metatron killed Naomi but didn't use Naomi's grace for the spell which was right there! But instead he had to wait for cas to come back, which also explains why he needed cas in the first place, since it's actually a spell not a trial, anyone can do it, so why didn't he do it himself, why did he need cas if his grace (especially) wasn't an ingredient for the spell, which makes me wonder why cas? The two other ingredients are connected to romantic love, so there must be something about cas that's different from other angels & is connected to love, imma let everyone draw their own conclusion on that one 😉. I also think it's interesting that these two men fell in love right infront of dean & cas, interesting choice. Crowley's speech gives me chills, the scene with Sam & Crowley in that church is one of my favorite scenes in the entire show, very well acted, Mark Sheppard did a phenomenal job. The cupid thing is still questionable to me, coz one minute these guys weren't even looking at each other but the moment the cupid touched them both, it's instant love from the first sight & i don't know how to feel about it, same with Mary & john, people say if heaven hadn't interfered mary & john would've went from hating each other to loving each other anyway, but we don't know that! If that was true the angels wouldn't have tried so hard to make it happen! I don't know if that love is fake coz it's cupid or is it still real, the show has a strong theme with free will vs destiny, that's why stuff like that sets up loud alarms in my head, just like how heaven being reliving your good days over & over sets alarms in my head, not because it's a bad thing necessarily, i am sure it feels nice, so does love but because is it real? Is it a choice? Is it free will or destiny? There could be a case made for the question do we *choose* to fall in love irl or is it something that happens to us? Anyway this gets so existential lol. So excited for you to see season 9 😍, great reaction, Shelley 👏.
Hasnaa
2021-11-21 10:25:22 +0000 UTCIt was said during a conversation this season - I forget the episode and who was talking to who - that all the demons would get sucked back to Hell when all the doors got locked with the spell.
Michele
2021-11-21 07:44:26 +0000 UTCThere are lots of angels. They are just now all on Earth. John and Mary fell in love on their first meeting, so any dislike was a momentary thing, probably because John walked right into Mary.
Helen Wood
2021-11-21 07:44:20 +0000 UTCWow. So many comments already! This was a really good finale and great Reaction. I love watching people react to this one because of all those revealing moments. It starts from the jump with Jody and Crowley. I started panicking as soon as I saw Jody because I knew it couldn't be a good thing. Not after the previous episode. Seeing Crowley there with her clinched it for me. I was certain they were going to kill her off and I was livid. Starting the season finale off that way was not good! It just kept ramping up from there. I feel so sad for Sam. It became clear to me with this episode how lonely he must be. The brothers might be living the same life but they live it differently. Sam doesn't make friends. He doesn't try to have fun. To him it's all just a job that he has to do and just push through it. It's not the life he wants to live so he doesn't even try to have a life while being a hunter. Dean is different. Dean accepts that it's all there is for him, and he's decided to fit what life he can into it. Which means making friends and having fun whenever and however he can. It's a hellish life and he knows it. He is just pushing himself to try to put something enjoyable into it. Sam can't do that. That's so sad. Dean is really tough on Sam. But he desperately loves him too. He's an older brother and is always going to think that Sam needs him, even if he doesn't. Sam needs to stand up to Dean more often about things. That will tell Dean what he needs to hear and let him know that Sam is ready to handle things. They definitely need better communication! I was so glad that Cas finally came back and told Dean about what was going on. This way at least Dean knew what was happening. But, in the end, Cas still went off without much thought while Dean had to rush back to safe Sam. I know that Dean would have wanted to be with Cas too, because I think Dean had questions and suspected that something was up. Oh Cas. sigh Watching your reactions to this season has helped me a lot. I didn't like season 8 very much, originally. It had some okay stuff in it, but I was so focused on the stuff I didn't like that it colored the rest. But seems like you really liked this season. So I was able to enjoy more of it through you. Thanks! This episode was reminiscent of the season 4 finale. Dean yet again caught in the middle between what was going on with Cas and with Sam. Sad that Sam was okay with dying though. This is why Dean wanted to do the Trials in the first place. No way he'd be able to just let Sam die. Dean's not capable of that.
Michele
2021-11-21 07:38:33 +0000 UTCGreat finale. That shakes up the mythos in a completely different way. Cas oh cas. He tries so hard to repair his mistakes while completely fucking over his people.
Christopher simeon
2021-11-21 06:47:07 +0000 UTCHa! Thanks so much ☺ It's difficult to parse, obviously, and I don't think waters any of us want to tread include what precisely deserves punishment and what punishments should be. So, like you, I'll leave it at, welp, canonically, not all souls that go to hell made demon deals and we know what happens to souls that get stuck on earth. Seems worth raising a question!
SKK
2021-11-21 04:05:06 +0000 UTCI agree with everything you've said here. LOL! I think, although I'm not entirely sure why I think this, I guess I always just assumed that all the demons on earth would kinda get sucked back to hell when they closed the gates? 🤷♀️ I also know exactly what you mean about the hell thing. It's hard, in a supernatural world not to want a hell where the darkest, cruelest, most murderous souls can be housed. Ideally, when those souls died they'd just be dead and gone, but what guarantee is there that would happen within the world of SPN. Maybe they'd just end up becoming more monstrous and roaming around the earth. Obviously torturing human souls into demons is horrifying and atrocious. But from what I understood, Crowley had changed a lot of that when he took over hell, little less of the obvious ripping souls apart on a rack kind of thing, (at least for the majority of hell bound souls) and more DMV-style line-ups for years and some of the psychological torment that Bobby went through. Which is obviously still heinous when it's happening to a good, shining soul like Bobby's. But I wouldn't mind seeing people who abused/murdered children for example, spending a few decades at least dealing with some karmic psychological torment, akin to the fear and anguish of the children they hurt/murdered and the families left behind. Anyway, I'm off on a tangent. I could have just left it at, "I agree with everything you've said here." 😂
Linda Moore
2021-11-21 03:48:42 +0000 UTCI didn't want to bring up Benny and "found family" when Shelley said in Clip Show "Isn't there someone else they could put on this...?" I knew everyone would get there. ☺ Please forgive me, as this is a bit tangential, but here's what lingered in my mind at the end of this whirlwind finale regarding contextualizing and nuancing the "net positive" of closing versus not closing the Gates of Hell.* *(I have great affection for Sam, and I my heart would have broken for Dean, but I wasn't sure how One Human Life would have stacked up…) When we first met Metatron, he said something along the lines of "So, you're going to pull one of the great levers, huh?" And, honestly, it sounds good on paper, but there's no Bobby to bounce the idea off of as to whether or not it's actually a GOOD idea. Everyone would've thought killing Lilith was a good idea. So, context: 1) Obviously these "Gates of Hell" were open before Yellow Eyes's reign of terror because he and other canon demons got out well before the Devil's Gate opening of season two. And, clearly, demons suck. But, then again, how much so on balance with other monsters? Given, demons got very active in the ramp-up to the Apocalypse (via statistics quoted by Bobby); however, they've been relatively quiet (outside of Crowley's retributive acts) otherwise. Supposedly, the only demons that can get out "claw their way out," are crossroads demons, are particularly high powered, or are granted special privileges by the King. 2) For good or for nil, in the world of Supernatural there's a reward and punishment system, a yin and yang, for souls in regard to heaven and hell. When the balance of the system gets disrupted, souls are trapped on earth, becoming vengeful ghosts that prey upon the living (MOTW style) and must be hunted. If the Gates of Hell are closed, would already monstrous souls like the serial killer of season two's No Exit (RIP Jo <3) become rampant? I don't like the idea of tortured souls becoming demons, believe me, but it's a hard bargain against trapped serial killer souls as vengeful spirits on earth. -- which I say admittedly arrogantly assuming I wouldn't wind up in the punishment cycle. 3) What happens to the demons currently on earth? I presume they'd slowly be hunted down, but, I dunno, mebbe they'll get rill pissed off and, like, organize? My thoughts degenerate around here, but, I'm just saying, no one's done a full recon on Hell Gate closing. Also, I miss Bobby.
SKK
2021-11-21 03:41:29 +0000 UTC
