VeggieGamer / [CLOSED] - The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 34 & 35 of The Goblet of Fire!

Yeah I like this idea. From what the books convey, Muggles can't view these places in general but if they are accompanied by a wizard then they'll be able to visit that place

Katie

2025-01-14 20:47:57 +0000 UTC

Also an idea. I love the world she created! So many possibilities!

Judith

2025-01-14 20:26:41 +0000 UTC

To me it’s not about lifting any spells. The purpose of the spells is to stop muggles from finding hogwarts, not to make it impossible for them to be there. Just literally hold the hand of a wizard and they can be taken there.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-14 19:48:49 +0000 UTC

Okay, you are right. I checked and it was not in the first book. At least i cant find it. I found in the forth book a line from Mr Weasley telling Harry that Muggles cant enter Diagon Alley. That was what I meant with messing up. Because Hermiones parents were at the Bookshop, werent they? Or was that just in the movies? 🙈 Anyway, everyone is probably right about there being the option having specific Muggles see these places, but not the magority. That way its not a mistake and its more realistic.

Judith

2025-01-14 19:46:16 +0000 UTC

I don't think she messed up (I'm not sure what she could have messed up cause there are no contradictions I can think of) as it's established all the way back in book 2. Harry also think in book 4 of the possibility of the Dursley's being there but the only reason he thinks they won't turn up is because they hate him not because it isn't possible. If magical enchantments can be put on the castle they can be temporarily removed as we see in book 6 with the apparition tests. Maybe something else is going on here but it's absolutely clear that muggles can visit Hogwarts and other magically restricted locations

Katie

2025-01-14 19:15:43 +0000 UTC

Omg youbare right! I totally forgot about that! So for me, their are two possibilities: 1. J.K. Rowling Just messed up and wrote whatever she needed for her Story. Or 2. The spell can bei modified for specific people in order to stop it from workung for them.

Judith

2025-01-14 15:35:15 +0000 UTC

Hey! I know I'm late to the conversation but thought I'd add that the books confirm that Muggles can enter Hogwarts. In book 2 in the diary flashback it is mentioned that Myrtles parents will be arriving soon (after her body is found) and we know she's a Muggle-born. Therefore Muggles can enter Hogwarts. It would be insane otherwise like the example Veggie was making. It's a similar situation for Hermione's parents being in Diagon Alley in book 2. They were shown how to get there otherwise they wouldn't see the entrance to The Leaky Cauldron

Katie

2025-01-14 15:20:19 +0000 UTC

And it would've been interesting to see him and Bellatrix together!

Maddie

2025-01-07 17:07:08 +0000 UTC

Best Are You Being Served reference just for past Christmas! ^^

Embran

2025-01-07 16:51:00 +0000 UTC

But it belongs to Moody, doesn’t it? I always assumed it did, and that’s why Barty Crouch Jr has it

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-07 16:00:44 +0000 UTC

Its a shame Barty Jr was only in one book. It would’ve been so intriguing to have him as a villain for the rest of the series for the reasons you said

Andrew K

2025-01-07 15:20:45 +0000 UTC

Hi Garry. I think it's established the Foe-Glass shows Crouch jr.'s enemies. No one else's.

Hawwah

2025-01-07 14:04:08 +0000 UTC

Harry New Year!

Hairy Pothead

2025-01-07 10:47:59 +0000 UTC

Hey Veggie! Happy New Year to you and Woozle! How good of an actor is Crouch Jr?! The desperate hysterical crying during his trial, then passing off as Moody for an entire school year. I think he's one of the really terrifying and effective villains. I like that Harry effectively used the Accio spell to get the trophy, considering that he had trouble mastering it at first. In the end it was the one spell that got him out of there. It was a really good payoff.

Maddie

2025-01-07 09:52:25 +0000 UTC

Hey Veggie! Missed the last few book reviews and been really disappointed because they had a bunch of stuff that I wanted to discuss, but fatherhood and work have been taking priority. Either way, good to be back and Happy Holidays/Happy New Year!! Chapter 34 I just love how amazingly this chapter is done in the book. The sheer eerieness of the graveyard encounter, Harry’s defiance is shaking off the Imperius Curse, the wands clashing and causing the golden beam struggle….and of course the pure emotion of Harry seeing and hearing his parents’ voices as well as all of Voldemort’s other victims. Gives me chills. Chapter 35 THIS! This along with the maze as it’s portrayed in the book is what most readers were disappointed about the movie. This whole chapter and the backstory about Barty Crouch is what makes this book such a great mystery! Not including Winky in the movie and taking out all of the backstory about Barty Sr sneaking his son out of Azkaban and getting caught by Bertha Jorkins, altering her memory, Barty Jr’s escape and stealing Harry’s wand. It’s all such a great plot. And having David Tennant just show up at the start of the movie and then having “Moody” do his whole weird tongue thing just robs the reveal of all of this great aura. Excited for the wrap up of this book!

Kevin Morris

2025-01-07 05:26:38 +0000 UTC

In your view, could a muggle - who is born from muggle parents - have a small amount of magic? But not enough to be considered a witch or wizard? And is it possible for two wizard to have a completely muggle child? Or will they always have a squib? What about half-blood muggles?

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-06 23:08:17 +0000 UTC

Me neither! I never caught it, but someone on here mentioned it to me and now I can…kind of…? see it? I still don’t like it though

itsanursething

2025-01-06 21:54:26 +0000 UTC

if you still want to write an essay on this chapter then you could do it in the replies to your post and the rest of us can all have a read and discussion 😃

Andrew K

2025-01-06 17:36:58 +0000 UTC

(Spoiler barrier)

Andrew K

2025-01-06 17:36:16 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! I hope you and Woozle have enjoyed your holidays! I’ve reread the Harry Potter series many, many times since I was a little kid, and am still surprised by new things I notice about various characters on each reading. This last time reading through, I noticed something about right after harry gets back to Hogwarts from the third task. When Dumbledore calls for Winky, he does so before Moody has transformed back into. Crouch Jr. This begs the question, when did Dumbledore realize that Crouch Jr was the death eater at Hogwarts? We know that Dumbledore is aware of something going on with Crouch Sr, and that in his pensive he was exploring memories of those who might have had grudges against Crouch Sr - Karkaroff, Bagman, and Crouch Jr as a related case though Dumbledore would believe him dead at that point. Even when Crouch Sr turns up in the grounds to give Dumbledore a warning, he is only able to communicate that he has done “something terrible” in regards to his son, and that something is going on with Voldemort trying to get stronger. I think that when Crouch Sr then disappears, that Dumbledore may have chosen to use legilimancy on Winky, learning that Crouch Jr is alive but not having any of the information about what happened after Winky’s dismissal. If this is the case, then Dumbledore’s line of questioning with veritiserum which covers time before Winky’s dismissal was for Harry’s benefit rather than Dumbledore’s. Sorry this became such a long post! Just became a really interesting tangent of thought for me :)

Emory

2025-01-06 17:29:59 +0000 UTC

Hi veggie I dont often feel i have much to add to these reviews because everyone else seems to cover everything pretty well. I feel like ive waited all year for this chapter but now i can't really come up with what to say without making an essay. The movies have robbed you of the biggest twist that literally blew my 10 year old mind. But i think theres still enough questions answered and revelations in this chapter. Its one of the rare moments i wish there was actually a reaction video. Between winkies involvement, birthas story, and the antics of crouch sr & jr, this really has been the chapter i think of when you have asked so many questions throughout this book. Ps- u asked for our favourite book scenes not included in the movie to be posted in the comments of this book review but mine would be a spoiler as it hasn't happened yet. Might be worth holding off until you have finished the book. Happy new year!

Alex

2025-01-06 16:06:46 +0000 UTC

Yeah, I see it more as there being a scale of how much magical power you have, and a threshold under which you are not considered a witch/wizard. So for me, squibs could still have some (minuscule) magical power, but not enough to be able to join the wizarding community.

Alias93

2025-01-06 12:25:25 +0000 UTC

When I was a kid (about 10 I think), our teacher read us The Hobbit. I only got into Lord of the Rings much later (in my 20's), and I don't know if it was the different language (our teacher read it in french for us, and I read the original version as an adult) or the fact that I wasn't very familiar with this type of fantasy setting when I was a kid, but my memory of the Hobbit was very different from the way I read it as an adult. For example, the idea of human-sized elves was weird to me back then, I imagined elves as house-elves like in Harry Potter. I remember our school had us watch Philosopher Stone on a VHS towards the end of the school year to keep us occupied when there wassn't much to do. One of my friends who had read the book but not watched the movie yet was confused why some of the obstacles were missing at the end.

Alias93

2025-01-06 12:12:23 +0000 UTC

Hey Veggie I was watching TV two nights ago and had a startling revelation with Hermione! I was watching an old 90's Brittish\comedy sitcom from 1992. Do you remember or watched it-Absolutely Fabulous. Well one of the main characters had a daughter called Saffron who could be described as a plain girl with busy brown hair and is bookish and a 'know it all'. Sound familiar? I wonder if J K Rowling modelled her off her?!

Vanessa

2025-01-06 04:07:45 +0000 UTC

Yeah, it kinda explains why he is the way he is. At least a little bit.

Judith

2025-01-05 15:13:17 +0000 UTC

I guess it’s like staring into the mirror of erised. Just pure longing. He’s there because he wants to be part of the magical world, but he can’t ever be.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 14:47:36 +0000 UTC

oh okay! I never realised that. And now i am questioning everything in know/thought about squibs... So basically they are just muggles with magic parents. Thats weird... Why would Filch work at one of the most magic places if he can never do magic?! Isnt that kind of a form of selfharm and setting yourself up for misery? I am confused now...

Judith

2025-01-05 14:35:04 +0000 UTC

Interesting theory!

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 14:17:56 +0000 UTC

The kwikspell course is not actually for squibs, and it doesn’t work for squibs. It reads more like a refresher course for grown-up wizards, sort of like a community college class. Sure people have different abilities and strengths, but being a wizard is a binary state. Theres even a potter more article about a squib who tried to get into hogwarts and got as far as the sorting hat, before being told that he was not a wizard. Even the least talented wizard, there’s no doubt that they would be able to learn spells with enough practise and dedication. Neville is a great example of this. Squibs simply cannot ever do magic. And they can’t be accepted into hogwarts.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 14:01:02 +0000 UTC

Basically she lied, and her description of them was bad (Harry remarks something like “it sounded like she had only ever heard a description of a dementor”). But her description of the sensation was what convinced them. She shouldn’t have lied though, it hurts her case.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 13:37:46 +0000 UTC

Source https://web.archive.org/web/20110713111531/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=19

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 13:34:33 +0000 UTC

Are you sure?! I thought she described the dementors in the hearing. And wasnt she asked wether or not she could see them and she said yes? But maybe i'm tripping. And no, fantastic beasts ist not canon. At least not for me.

Judith

2025-01-05 12:45:53 +0000 UTC

First editions are great i think the only ones of mine that are first editions are order of the phoenix onwards. I started reading them when I was about 9 or 10 which was 2000/2001. I had no idea what harry potter was when my teacher in year 5 decided to read the philosophers stone at the end of every Friday for 10 minutes to us. Most of the class clearly knew it but i was fascinated and by the end of chapter 2 I was hooked and had to read it for myself so I finished the book before the next Friday lol but it took time to get to the 4th book but I didn't own the 4th book til later on, I was always in my local library so I tended to borrow books rather than buy them. If my parents bought me all the books I read when I was younger they'd have gone bankrupt lol 😆

Liz

2025-01-05 12:43:05 +0000 UTC

"Ho, Ho, Ho, little boy, have I got a surprise for you." The duel scene is a lot more brutal in the book compared to the film hope the series gives the scene room to breath. I always wonder if the defiant voice in Harry's head is his conscience or ironically voldemort? poor barty jr another bad guy falls to the power of the undefeated monologue. Bet you didn't expect it to be all winkys fault, although you now know why she was in the quidditch stand now not because crouch snr was being cruel but because it was her idea for his son to attend so she had to keep an eye on him. It's strange but we never actually get to meet the real moody for much of the book and crouch isn't himself for most of the book either so what we know about them is second hand knowledge most of which in regards to crouch is from moody which is his son in disguise who hates him so you never get an actual honest description of who he really was.

Simon audsley

2025-01-05 12:37:08 +0000 UTC

Yeah I’ve just found it in the inside cover - first edition!

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 12:23:54 +0000 UTC

And re-reading it, wormtails new hand does appear first. Doesn’t he use his wand to perform legilimency on Bertha? I guess maybe that sort of spell doesn’t exactly have a physical form

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:48:29 +0000 UTC

Huh. Never noticed that before!

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:44:18 +0000 UTC

@Garry Doesn't the kwikspell course imply that there is a spectrum where it comes to magical power (unrelated to purity of blood)? We know some characters like Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Voldemort are extremely gifted, and some are very limited (while still having some magical powers). My opinion is that squibs just have extremely limited magical powers, to the point where it's barely or not at all noticeable. But they could still have some abilities that muggles don't have.

Alias93

2025-01-05 10:36:58 +0000 UTC

Interesting though that Harry doesnt see his enemies, he see’s Barty Crouch Jrs enemies. If it only works for one person, that person should be moody. If it works for whoever looks at it, Harry should see his own enemies. I do agree though that it is pretty good evidence that Snape IS Barty’s enemy, and not an ally!

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:28:14 +0000 UTC

(Sorry I replied to the wrong thread - below - so I’ll paste my reply again here) I think if they were taken to hogwarts they would see it. This actually happens in fantastic beasts, although I guess we aren’t considering that canon. But even so, filch is a muggle and he lives there (yes squibs are muggles, no Mrs figg can’t see dementors)

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:17:48 +0000 UTC

Bananas

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:17:37 +0000 UTC

I think this is my phone app messing up, replying to the wrong thread, sorry. In response to your comment though Alias, I just don’t see how it makes sense. How can they be completely non magical but still have some sort of ability that other muggles don’t. We know that pure bloodedness has no effect on magical ability so magic and non-magic are completely binary and not on a spectrum. There is no difference between a muggle born and a pure blood. So it follows that there is no difference between a wizard-born muggle (squib) and a muggle-born muggle. Given that there is confirmation that squibs can’t see dementors, that kwik spell courses don’t work on squibs, I feel that we can reasonably conclude that squibs are the same as muggles.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 10:15:51 +0000 UTC

I was just figuring my thoughts out as I wrote, I’ve edited my comment to be more clear. Basically, if priori incantatem were happening but the death eaters were not present, would they still have floated to an area “free of graves”, because the only souls present in the bubble have to be the souls chosen by the wands. So then the souls in the graves would kind of be intruding or something. Otherwise, why did the book specify that it was an area free of graves and not just away from the death eaters (who still move to surround them anyway)

Ree

2025-01-05 09:47:04 +0000 UTC

Yes some were printed that way i can't check my copy atm I think one of my children misplaced it lol I'll find it eventually then I'll be able to know haha.

Liz

2025-01-05 09:43:59 +0000 UTC

I think Garry might have meant to reply to Judith's post above, which mentions the Dursleys coming to Hogwarts to watch the third task. @Garry I don't think squibs are muggles, yes they can't see dementors but I think they can see Hogwarts. I know Filtch has been theorized to be a poltergeist like Peeves, but the official version in the story is that he is a squib, and he can obviously see Hogwarts. As for muggles being able to see it, I'm pretty sure if the story had required it then the explanation would have been "Dumbledore temporarily lifted the spell to allow them to see it" kind of like when he removes the anti-apparition protection to allow students to practice it in HBP.

Alias93

2025-01-05 09:34:17 +0000 UTC

Right after Harry calls him out about the graveyard.

Alias93

2025-01-05 09:17:05 +0000 UTC

I kinda don't see how this relates to my or S1lm4r1l's post here? Who do you mean with they?

Florian Krause

2025-01-05 06:44:57 +0000 UTC

i am fairly sure is was a portkey to take the winner to the "winners circle". no one was surprised that they showed up. the theory i like is that Voldemort planed on killing Harry then polyjuce into Harry and come back to kill Dumbledore, or other infiltration.

Garfnob

2025-01-05 04:04:26 +0000 UTC

Hi veggie 🤠 I just noticed on re-reading, that all the ghosts as they come out of voldemorts wand apparently fall to the ground and then straighten up. Funny to think of them all clumsily falling out of voldemorts wand. Harry’s journey back to the cup seemed longer in the book. He managed to knock two death eaters over, dodged several stunning curses and sent an impedimenta spell at one of them. Pretty impressive really. The portkeys at the World Cup were designed to only work at a specific time, if you touch it too early or too late, nothing happens. whereas it seems like this one worked as soon as you touched it, which could explain why it works again on the way back (it is not limited in the same way)

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 02:03:11 +0000 UTC

My copy of the book has lily appearing last! Must be an old edition

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 01:47:14 +0000 UTC

I do like the idea that it was always supposed to be a portkey, but I always kind of assumed that it was just a different type of portkey. The ones at the World Cup are timed if you touch them too early or too late, nothing happens. This one works anytime you touch it, but as a result isn’t turned off at any point and so basically works in both directions

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 01:25:27 +0000 UTC

Don’t know if you are just messing with the veggie, but the presence of the ghosts is happening because of the priori incantatem. It’s the same spell that they cast on Harry’s wand at the World Cup, and it made the wand reveal the last spell that it did. So the ghosts are appearing because they are the last people the Voldemort killed (in reverse order). Although come to think of it, they can’t be all of the most recent spells he did. You’re telling me that the only time he uses his wand is to kill people? I guess the murders just appear the strongest..

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 01:19:23 +0000 UTC

Diffindo!

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 01:14:38 +0000 UTC

Yeah my minds eye version of Pettigrew he looks very plain, skinny, pathetic. Timothy spall has a sort of villainous creepiness to him, which to be fair is a really good portrayal, just not what I imagine.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 01:02:32 +0000 UTC

Wait when does he do hagrids voice?

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 00:55:36 +0000 UTC

What’s your theory?

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 00:53:37 +0000 UTC

I think if they were taken to hogwarts they would see it. This actually happens in fantastic beasts, although I guess we aren’t considering that canon. But even so, filch is a muggle and he lives there (yes squibs are muggles, no Mrs figg can’t see dementors)

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 00:47:28 +0000 UTC

I always saw Harry as a completely normal boy who just had a massive responsibility thrust upon him. That’s why we as the reader are supposed to relate to him. Not because he is great. Dumbledore even says other teachers describe him as “modest, likeable, and reasonably talented”. Not exactly showing the sorts of signs that Dumbledore or Tom riddle showed at his age that he is in any way exceptional.

Garry (Not Jerry)

2025-01-05 00:26:37 +0000 UTC

It's so difficult to write anything smart about the Veritaserum chapter since I want you to talk about EVERY single detail and EVERY little sentence, which of course is impossible. I love that we've been told slightly different versions from different characters in this book about how Bertha is as a person. Extremely forgetful some said, while Sirius disputed that – because he only knew her before Barty Crouch sr. damaged her memory permanently with his powerful memory charm. As you can see, Winky had a very important role in this book! I still don't like how Crouch sr treated her. Yes, she made mistakes, but it was still his own decision to go along with the plan. His decision to sack her was probably not motivated by the mistakes though, I suspect. Even though I kind of dislike him, I still really enjoy Barty senior as a character. He's so interesting! Not sure we can write off what he did by breaking out his son as "one bad deed" since he kept it up for years, and by that putting a lot of lives in danger, in addition to what he did to Bertha Jorkins, but it's still very understandable as well! What will be the role of Barty Crouch jr from now, you think? What do you expect from the last few chapters in this book? Have you checked out the next few chapter titles yet?

H

2025-01-04 00:33:37 +0000 UTC

My takeaways from these chapters: Barty Jr. Screwed up by teaching Harry to resist thd Imperius curse. Harry has an inner fortitude and excellent instincts that many adults don't have. My favorite thing is Harry's determination to die on his feet fighting if he had to die. Not crouching behind a headstone in fear. Dobby is really odd even amongst other house elves judging by Winky. He feels no loyalty at all to the Malfoys because of how they abused him. Winky was in an opposite situation because she was treated well up until the World Quidditch final.

Annette Elliott

2025-01-03 04:58:59 +0000 UTC

Oof-Tee-Poof and Happy New Year! 🥂 CH 34 As a musician, I always get so emotional when the phoenix song gives Harry hope! Reminds me when Dumbledore once said: “Ah music, a magic beyond all we do here!” 🎵💕 (Book 1) My favorite moment of GoF has to be when V’s victims emerge and give words of encouragement to Harry. It’s so well-written and deeply moving! You have Cedric telling Harry to hold on, Bertha and Frank supporting someone they never met, and of course the arrival of Harry’s parents is both heart-breaking and beautiful. CH 35 Voldy had his villain monologue last book club, and now Crouch Jr. gets his. Finally we get some answers! What was your favorite reveal?

Elizabeth D

2025-01-02 05:56:25 +0000 UTC

Glad I could help! 😂 I didn't even notice it before someone mentioned it in this comment section. But I'm not really satisfied with my theory yet bc it still has a few holes (but as Veggie says, you can explain everything with magic 😆)

DreamMyselfAway (Dreamy)

2025-01-02 03:54:06 +0000 UTC

Just made me think…. I suppose it’s lucky Percy never happened upon Crouch Jr. while under the employ of Sr. or he might have ended up like poor Bertha!

Elizabeth D

2025-01-02 03:43:57 +0000 UTC

LOVE this idea about the Portkey! Never thought too much about it on a first time read, but its bugged me a lot recently! You have put my mind at rest…. That is my head cannon too now 😆👌🏻

Elizabeth D

2025-01-02 03:37:26 +0000 UTC

Merry Christmas Veggie and Woozle!! Hope it was a good one for you. Chapter 34 I always cry when Harry's parents come out. Little editing fun fact for you (apologies if someone else had mentioned it), JK Rowling wanted Lily to be the last one to come out of Voldys wand but the order in which they were killed doesn't support this so she had to change it. At least in the book we kind of meet Bertha Jorkins but it's such a small part that I understand the film leaving it out. This was a great chapter. Chapter 35 Poor Harry, he's gone through so much and every time I read this book I dread the moment Cedric's parents realise he's dead. Jeff Rawle was amazing in the film he's an incredible actor. This book was when I started disliking Fudge because all he cares about is how things look and his own reputation. And this chapter was when I realised Moody was suspicious. No I didn't see it coming lol but i was about 10 yo when I first read the book 😂. Also sirius did say Barty Crouch jr had died so it couldn't have been him lol so as you can imagine I really enjoyed the story of how it all unfolded, I couldn't put the book down lol. Dumbledore's fury though oh boy thankfully I'm not the one receiving it haha. These are 2 of the best chapters of this book in my opinion. Hope have/had a good new year. I feel 2025 might be a better year or at least i hope so anyway. Take care

Liz

2024-12-29 19:35:55 +0000 UTC

ops, i must have been more sleepy then i thought. i read it as there was some kind of spoiler. my bad.

Garfnob

2024-12-29 19:19:43 +0000 UTC

I don't think Grace was asking Veggie if he thought Moody did talk to Snape or not, just stating that he didn't but couldn't mention it in the earlier book club because it was only confirmed here. Or maybe I am misunderstanding?

Alias93

2024-12-29 19:08:51 +0000 UTC

My bad, I misread what you wrote. Perhaps: "At the time, Fake Moody claimed that Snape told him about Barty Crouch Snr in the grounds. Did Fake Moody lie, or did he really talk to Snape?"

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-29 18:37:34 +0000 UTC

Yes Hawwah is just saying it is spelt “Veritaserum”, so maybe just to change that to not confuse Veggie haha

Andrew K

2024-12-29 13:59:10 +0000 UTC

i do not understand your point. where is the spoiler? or is it i made Veritaserum two words? i have only do the audio books i thought it was two words

Garfnob

2024-12-29 13:52:34 +0000 UTC

Real Moody wouldn't see Dumbledore and McGonagall in his Foe-Glass. The Foe-Glass shows Crouch's enemies, not Moody's. "So after Severus supposedly turned to Voldemort again, if harry looked into a foe glass would he see snape there? Or would he not since snape is actually an ally." He would not see him because Severus is an ally. Harry's opinion on him wouldn't matter. Remember the Sneakoscope? It made noise in Scabber's presence, even though the trio thought he was just a harmless rat. The Foe-Glass shows real enemies, not perceived ones. Otherwise it would be pointless.

Hawwah

2024-12-29 08:32:28 +0000 UTC

Nor me. You could argue that because the real Moody owns it, perhaps he sees Snape in the reflection because he still doesn't trust him.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-28 21:10:07 +0000 UTC

Oh yeah that's what I meant, I didn't mean it actually happened, but that was one of Veggie's theories. Is there a way I could word that better do you think?

Grace S

2024-12-28 21:09:26 +0000 UTC

I don't think Snape did tell Barty Jnr. Somehow Moody waits for Harry to leave, stuns Krum, transfigures and buries his father. Gets up to the Castle without encountering Harry or Dumbledore. Meets Snape, who immediately tells Moody what's happening. Moody then emerges from the Forest seconds after Dumbledore and Harry reach Krum? Harry and Dumbledore run, or jog most the way back down. Seems like a lot of running around for a guy with one leg and a prosthetic. I think Barty Jnr just lied to explain to Dumbledore why he was there. He saw Harry, Snape and Dumbledore interact on the Map after all.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-28 21:06:32 +0000 UTC

Really? I'm amazed people don't think he's a Slytherin. It hadn't crossed my mind that people would think he wasn't until recently.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-28 20:57:22 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! Happy holidays! Chapter 34: I find it funny that Voldemort's "most valuable supporter" is the reason that Harry was able to humiliate Voldemort with the Imperius Curse. Harry getting to the portkey seemed wayyyyy more difficult in the books. All in all, the movies did a good job with this chapter. Chapter 35: I wish the movie had made it more clear that Krum was bewitched and not actually evil. "Closer than a son". Maybe if Crouch Sr. wasn't such an absent father, Crouch Jr. would have turned out different. Because I was so young when I first read these books, it's easy for me to forget how young Harry actually is. He is 14! A freshman in high school! A baby! It's a miracle he didn't become a villain with all the bs he went through. Also, I know you were wondering why snape would hinder Harry from seeing Dumbledore when Crouch Sr. was at Hogwarts, and if he realized the seriousness of the situation and alerted Moody. I wanted to tell you, but, spoilers, so now you know he was just being a Snapey dude. I hope you and Woozle have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year!

Grace S

2024-12-28 20:30:54 +0000 UTC

Yeah, I was actually under the impression he was in ravenclaw, that's what I've seen a lot online at least.

Grace S

2024-12-28 20:15:29 +0000 UTC

I think it's certainly a good hint, but I'm not too sure on how the foe glass works. Is it based on opinions? So after Severus supposedly turned to Voldemort again, if harry looked into a foe glass would he see snape there? Or would he not since snape is actually an ally?

Grace S

2024-12-28 20:12:25 +0000 UTC

Yes, I agree about pettigrew, the thing that is so devastating about his betrayal is that he was a good guy, he was actually friends with many people in the order, especially the marauders, and I feel like that is overlooked a lot because he was portrayed as simply evil.

Grace S

2024-12-28 20:01:21 +0000 UTC

I agree with you about frank Bryce, that always makes me tear up a bit

Grace S

2024-12-28 19:53:59 +0000 UTC

Ooh that's interesting, it could make sense because Percy only apologized to his family after wormtails death...

Grace S

2024-12-28 19:48:50 +0000 UTC

I'm sorry for being that person, but it's spelled Veritaserum. (Veritas is Latin for "truth", hence the name.) PS: Agreed 100% on Winky.

Hawwah

2024-12-28 18:48:03 +0000 UTC

:)

Garfnob

2024-12-28 17:41:44 +0000 UTC

Greetings, Chapter – 34 - Why would the portkey be set to work twice? In the beginning of the book there was a pile of used portkeys, implying they are normally single use. I have heard some plausible theories. What is yours? Chapter – 35 - Everyone just does what Dumbledore tells them without question. I would be a bad order member. - did Barty get up every hour through the night? From what I know from friends with kids, that is not sustainable. - Veritaserum apparently does not just make you tell the truth, it apparently compels you to speak. - see, Winky was not as miss treated as you thought. The World Cup was Winky’s idea, and she was “fired” for a much more serious laps in service then leaving the tent.

Garfnob

2024-12-28 17:41:34 +0000 UTC

There is a theory that Percy was put under the imperius curse by Wormtail when Crouch Sr started working from home, either to prevent another Bertha situation or maybe because the same thing happened again, and that Percy only got fully free from it when Wormtail died in DH.

Alias93

2024-12-28 09:19:01 +0000 UTC

Spoiler Protection charm!

SavageKim

2024-12-27 19:58:51 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! I hope you and Woozle had a lovely holiday season! Chapter 34: -Notably Voldemort casts all 3 Unforgiveable Curses at Harry in this chapter. The killing cuse just never reaches him. -Harry's lesson teaching him to throw off the Imperius Curse comes back around! -Imperio is described as taking away his pain I think it's to help make him compliant - or is that just part of feeling happy... what do you think? -Both Crucio and Imperio are terrifying and right to be Unforgiveable. Chapter 35: -So much backstory!! And richly described. -We learn the entire school year it was Barty Jr. so he actually taught Harry to throw off Imperio! -So satisfying to learn all the mysteries, even Crouch's illness and why he had to eventually work from home. -Do you imagine Percy showed up to check up on Mr. Crouch? Perhaps, and he just didn't know Mr. Crouch was under the Imperius? -Do you think he saw Wormtail? -Would he even know who Wormtail is/looks like as Percy wasn't there in the Shrieking Shack last year? Hard to believe the next book club with finish the Goblet of Fire!

SavageKim

2024-12-27 19:58:25 +0000 UTC

I find it interesting that in Chapter 35 Dumbledore asks Snape to retrieve Winky before Moody transforms back into Crouch. Dumbledore clearly knows that it was Crouch who was the imposter as there would be no other reason for Winky to be involved. I think that after reliving the court scene and hearing Mr Crouch rant about his son, Dumbledore had known Barty Crouch Jr was involved, but was still trying to work out who the imposter was, as he had no reason to suspect Moody before he takes Harry away.

Alex Gunning

2024-12-24 00:42:38 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! Just wanted to give my opinion on Voldemort's red eyes: I imagine them as being really bloodshot. That way you can still take him seriously and see the emotion, without the overwhelming completely red eyes. If my eyes were bloodshot it wouldn't be weird for someone to say "your eyes are red"! I always forget about Voldemort and Harry floating away from the death eaters. The book makes a point of saying that they moved to an area "free of graves". Perhaps the magic can only work when the souls of the two connected wizards are the only souls present, and the souls in the graves would have been intruding on their connection. I guess it could also just be that they need space. Either way, I get why they didn't include this aspect in the film. Kind of unnecessary!

Ree

2024-12-23 20:09:47 +0000 UTC

spoilers below

Jonas (Methanoutput)

2024-12-22 13:54:15 +0000 UTC

Hey Veggie and Woozle! I have to say these chapters are great but so sad. The description from Barty Crouch Jr killing his own father is so sadistic in front of Winky and children. Definitely much more tense and entertaining than in the movie though! Hope you have(had) a great christmas time and a good start into the new year!

Jonas (Methanoutput)

2024-12-22 13:53:49 +0000 UTC

Harry under the Imperius Curse: "I feel happy, contented, peaceful. What the hell is this sorcery!?"

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-21 20:31:13 +0000 UTC

Yes, there's definitely a nature/nurture element and sometimes people just go wrong. But trauma and bad parenting can certainly cause personality disorders that might not have manifested in someone with a stable, happy childhood. Obviously Barty Crouch Jr is fictional and there's no one true answer to why he is the way he is, but I do think the author is trying to make an implication by making such a point out of their relationship. Sirius implies he was distant and uninvolved, Barty himself says his father never loved him, we see a trial where rather than recusing himself his father chooses to be the one to personally berate him and sentence him to be tormented to death. Barty even references his desire to be 'closer than a son' to Voldemort, which to me is the author dropping a strong hint about his motivations for joining him in the first place. Occasionally you're born with a complete lack of empathy, but more often (IMO) things go wrong along the way. A neglected, resentful, lonely teenager who never received consistent moral guidance from a trusted adult would be an easy convert in a school filled with Death Eater wannabes. The Barty Crouch Jr we see is far past the point of no return, but I do think that if he'd had two loving, attentive parents, there is a good chance he would've turned out differently. I feel like it's a bit of a theme in the books, the various ways that people can be affected by bad childhoods and whether they are ultimately able to overcome that formative trauma: Harry himself, Sirius, Snape, Barty Crouch Jr, Tom Riddle, Merope Gaunt, Neville, probably others that I'm forgetting. (I know Barty's mom seems to love him, but we don't know much about her otherwise. And sometimes one good parent can't undo the damage of one bad parent.)

K

2024-12-20 06:28:20 +0000 UTC

'it was likely his neglect and uncaringness towards his son that led him on this dark path to begin with' It seems that he was absent, at work and strict. But some people are born wrong, they have tendencies that are hard/impossible to correct. He clearly lacks any empathy. That can be feigned but hardly fixed.

Jo Winters

2024-12-20 05:43:44 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! First time in the book club, have really enjoyed hearing your thoughts so far. As a movie watcher, it may not be obvious that until this chapter many first time readers were not sure whether Barty Crouch Junior was actually guilty. Sirius's description of his past as well as the Penseive scene of his trial leave the possibility open that he was innocent to some degree and that his imprisonment was a horrible miscarriage of justice (similar to what happened to Sirius). We find out here that he is in fact guilty. He's a torturer, murderer, and bigot. His father was correct to send him to Azkaban. But this is the book where the lines between good and evil become blurrier. Crouch Senior takes a strong stand against Death Eaters, but we can infer that it was likely his neglect and uncaringness towards his son that led him on this dark path to begin with. As a reader, I was appalled by his treatment of his son. I then found his decision to grant his wife's dying wish to be human and understandable, almost a redeeming moment-- but it's that choice that ultimately enables the return of Lord Voldemort and causes untold suffering. What are your final thoughts about the Crouches, if you haven't talked it to death already?

K

2024-12-20 04:25:23 +0000 UTC

Love these chapters, so much is revealed! What are your thoughts about Harry resisting the Imperius Curse? Harry isn’t always the most focused student, but he is definitely good at not following rules or trusting authorities... We have a mention of a house elf doing laundry. I think handling clothes usually isn't a problem for them, because they wouldn’t see it as being "given" clothes. I think of it like this: If a boss told a joke that included the words "you’re fired," he wouldn’t accidentally fire everyone in the room. But if someone really wanted to get fired, they could take that opportunity and claim that the boss did say "you’re fired," and no one could really argue with that… I think that was the kind of loophole Harry and Dobby found.

Gabriella

2024-12-19 10:12:23 +0000 UTC

Hello Veggie, Merry Christmas! I'm sorry if I repeat something someone has already said. I'm having a hard time and cannot focus enough to read all the comments. Please feel free to ignore any repetitive parts. Chapter 34 When reading about the Cruciatus Curse, I kept thinking about Neville's parents. I felt so sorry for them, for Neville, and for his grandmother. This chapter gives us so much insight into Harry's personality, which I love. The way he defied the Imperius Curse and decided that he would die trying to defend himself, even if it seemed impossible, is so respectable and important. It's not being powerful that makes him a hero, but his attitude. I got ridiculously moved by Frank Bryce telling Harry to fight. I really don't know why—maybe because Frank had already endured such a hard life beforehand. We see something in Voldemort that we never really experienced in the films: fear. What did you think about that? Chapter 35 Here we can see the relationship between Crouch and Winky in a very different light—not as his subservient servant but as someone persuading him to take certain actions. I think this heavily contributed to his decision to fire her, along with her enabling Barty, in a way similar to how his mother did. After hearing the full story that Barty Jr. shared, I feel bad for Mr Crouch. His son is an irredeemable psychopath. Poor Bertha! Jesus, what an awful and dark end. It seems that Mr Crouch was a far more powerful person than his son. It took him only months to break through the Imperius Curse, while it took his son years to free himself from it.

Jo Winters

2024-12-18 08:55:41 +0000 UTC

I think the costume dictated a lot of that.

Jo Winters

2024-12-18 06:18:09 +0000 UTC

Hmm. Badass, witty, underestimated. I'm gonna leave you with those ;)

DreamMyselfAway (Dreamy)

2024-12-15 19:16:02 +0000 UTC

Do we get a tease on your favourite character? :P

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-15 19:04:04 +0000 UTC

I mean it's possible it was made so that only the four champions could trigger it, or there was a timer but only to prevent it from triggering too early, not at a specific time.

Alias93

2024-12-15 18:55:50 +0000 UTC

Yeah I never really thought about the two-way thing until I read it here today, so I wasn't really bothered by it beforehand haha (way too accepting of some plot holes whilst hating others). It only just dawned on me when I read the part with Harry getting back, bc he was actually landing at the edge of the maze and not in the middle where the Cup had been. I just wonder about how it would work, bc "Moody" set it up in the maze and obviously he didn't get teleported out. So either he was supposed to set it up as a portkey from the beginning, or the original portkey spell would have had some kind of timer on it - we actually learn earlier in this book that it is possible to set it to a specific time, but noone could have known when the first champion would get there. So my theory also has plotholes 😂

DreamMyselfAway (Dreamy)

2024-12-15 17:55:21 +0000 UTC

That's an interesting theory about the portkey! We know Hogwarts is protected against apparition, and we learn in later books that you need an authorization to set up a portkey, so I guess Hogwarts would be protected against these too. I think the cup was indeed always meant to be a portkey, that would explain why "Moody" was able to set it up undetected, but I never thought about it working as a way back because that was its original purpose, that would be a nice way to explain it.

Alias93

2024-12-15 16:24:34 +0000 UTC

[reply below]

Alias93

2024-12-15 16:20:44 +0000 UTC

Hi there Veggie! I finally started catching up on all the previous Book Reviews and thought that this would be a nice time for me to finally join the discussion, so here I am! Others here already have made some excellent points about these chapters, so I'll try to be not too repetitive. - If Voldemort wasn't behaving like the biggest bully on the school ground, this book series would have ended here - Nice to see that they fixed the mistake of James appearing before Lily in the books, it always bothers me when I listen to the audiobooks - Imagine all the trauma Harry goes through in this scene only being 14. He's in a deep state of shock in chapter 35. I think the movies didn't really go into that aspect of his story and character development in the future. - Amos Diggory's reaction in the movie hits me pretty hard every time I watch it. CHILLS. - rereading it, I have a theory about the Cup working two ways (it still has some holes, but I am curious about y'alls opinions): I think the Cup was always supposed to bring the first person touching it to the edge of the maze. What if this spell was already on there (not being activated yet?) and when the Portkey spell from Barty Jr. was used up, there was still the other one left, bringing Harry where he was supposed to go in the first place? I'm really excited for the future Book Clubs, since I have a whole manifesto dedicated to my favourite character (no worries, I'm going to split it up). Any guesses who it is? Also I'm sorry this got kind of long :( Lot's of love from Germany!

DreamMyselfAway (Dreamy)

2024-12-15 14:27:41 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! These chapters are full of so much interesting stuff! One great detail is Dumbledore asking McGonagall to get the black dog from Hagrid's house. I love that Dumbledore could say "tell the dog I'll be with him shortly," and no one thinks it's strange or asks any questions. It's so touching to think of Sirius waiting around to make sure Harry was all right after the competition. Barty Crouch's story is chilling, but it wraps up a lot of mysterious plot points in this book very neatly. Veritaserum is a great plot device for getting the villain to explain everything that happened. Even Moody's dustbins! If you read this book over again, you will pick up on so many hints. For example, I think that Moody turned Draco into a ferret because he was angry that his father was disloyal to Voldemort. It turns the book on its head!

Maria

2024-12-13 02:33:04 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! If there is one scene I like better in the movie than in the book, it's the one when Harry brings Cedric's body back to Hogwarts. At first the cheerful music is still playing and people are having fun and then they are starting to realise what really happened. It's a really powerful scene in my opinion. Too bad that they ruined almost everything else in the movie. For the first time in the whole series we get to see an angry Dumbledore. He was always so calm that seeing him furious has an actual impact not only on Harry but on the reader as well. So different from the movie where he shouts almost non stop. I love Crouch's backstory. The idea of him transfiguring his father's body into a bone is really terrifying!

Janie

2024-12-12 13:18:35 +0000 UTC

Hi veggie! Hope you’re well and enjoying the festive season. One thing that I think I overlook a lot is the fact that in these chapters Harry is still so young! Being 14 and put in a position where he decides that when he is to be killed it won’t be at the feet of Voldemort but face to face and proud like his father, this is something no child should ever have to face.

Logan

2024-12-11 15:32:03 +0000 UTC

It's not surprising that Rowling went on to write detective novels, is it? I do like the movie a lot, even if it doesn’t capture the twists and turns of the book. Brendan Gleeson’s performance as Mad-Eye Moody is easily my favorite thing about it. He makes Moody even more captivating on screen than he is on the page. One thing I have mixed feelings about is Timothy Spall’s interpretation of Peter Pettigrew. Have you noticed how different he in the books? Much less comically evil. As a child, I always pictured Pettigrew as a very normal-looking man, somewhat morally grey, even sympathetic in some ways (like his obvious revulsion towards Voldemort). A coward, rather than a villain. What do you think?

Margarita Pizza

2024-12-11 02:35:34 +0000 UTC

It's a shame we never got to see Crouch Jr and Bellatrix fight over who is Voldemort's most dedicated follower, now that would have been something...

Alias93

2024-12-10 18:57:52 +0000 UTC

It certainly indicates which side Crouch thinks Severus is on. I don't think Snape would say Crouch is Voldemort's most dedicated or capable supporter.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-10 14:54:39 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie, Chapter 34 - Prior Incantatem * I’m unsure how I feel about Fry’s voice for Voldemort; it’s not how I thought it would sound. What do you think? * I was not expecting to see the ghost of Wormtail’s hand come out of the wand. Chapter 35 - Veritaserum * I can’t imagine Dumbledore climbing in and out of the trunk. * It seems that Dumbledore didn’t know Harry had the Map. * Crouch’s explanation was excellent it allowed me to think back through the book and connect the pieces.

Connor Wilkinson

2024-12-09 13:29:58 +0000 UTC

Thanks. Since Veggie doesn´t read these replies...that for the big unveil of Rita´s secret we have to wait for 2025 (which means it could also be theoretically next book ^^)

Embran

2024-12-08 21:29:14 +0000 UTC

I agree partly with what you're saying, Embran, but even though Veggie would guess that it would be solved if someone asked him if he thought it would be a solution to that plot line, the fun thing here is that he's probably been distracted by everything that has happened, and the info dumps in the Veritaserum chapter, so he's probably not even thinking about Rita at all at this point! It's more fun that it still may end up being a surprise to him! Even when I re-read this book I completely forget about the Rita mystery because of everything else. So I think it's the right decision to remove it. (I don't know what your line was, by the way, so just a general point rather than a comment on what you wrote!)

H

2024-12-08 20:48:26 +0000 UTC

I actually like that BCJ doesn't betray himself in the book, it makes him look much more in control of the situation. In the movie he gives himself away twice, first to his father and then to Harry, but in the book he keeps his cover perfectly, and the only situations where he might have been exposed came from things he had no control over (he couldn't possibly have anticipated the Marauder's map, and Crouch Sr escaping was Wormtail's fault).

Alias93

2024-12-08 17:22:33 +0000 UTC

[reply below]

Alias93

2024-12-08 17:19:38 +0000 UTC

We know it can last a long time, in DH they are using the polyjuice potion that Moody prepared for Harry's extraction throughout the whole book. However that's before you add the bits of the person you want to turn into, maybe it's limited in time after that?

Alias93

2024-12-08 17:17:54 +0000 UTC

I always assumed she smuggled the potion in when they switched places. We don’t know if it has a shelf life, so maybe she brought a bunch of it 🤷🏼‍♀️

itsanursething

2024-12-08 17:06:57 +0000 UTC

She took Polyjuice Potion with one of her sons hairs in it. She didn't drink it all at once. She rationed it.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-08 12:38:03 +0000 UTC

Fine, I´ll remove the line. but again usually in a whodunit book where they build the mystery up the entire book it will be revealed at the end. Especially a side-plot.

Embran

2024-12-08 12:04:13 +0000 UTC

He is quintessentially Slytherin. He has almost every single Slytherin trait.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-08 11:13:10 +0000 UTC

we do NOT know which house Varty Crouch JR was in! He could as well have been a Ravenclaw - it's stated nowhere he was aSlytherin (officially) if I am not mistaken

Dara Jeeling

2024-12-08 10:53:49 +0000 UTC

No Spoilers

Cj Hayes

2024-12-08 02:07:40 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! Hope you are having a lovely festive season. I’m getting my comment in before I head off on a cruise. Chapter 34 Wow the tension in this chapter! It always feels bittersweet when Harry gets to see his parents, especially when its under horrible circumstances such as this one. Fun fact, the early versions of this chapter had James come out of the wand first, then Lily when it should have been the other way round because Voldys victims are coming out in reverse order of when he killed them. It was fixed in later editions. Chapter 35 • When Moody says that Voldy will reward him for killing Harry on his behalf I was like “you sure?” He made it very clear in the graveyard that he had to be the one to kill Harry for whatever reason. • Barty says that his mother was careful to drink Polyjuice Potion until the end. I’m curious to know how she got it in prison. Hermione tells us it takes a month to brew in CoS, and how would she have got the ingredients? That always made no sense to me. • At least now we know why Winky was at the Top Box by herself and why Barty Crouch Sr never showed to watch the game and also where Harrys wand went! • This is the chapter where everything starts coming together. The QWC events, the disturbance at Moodys house, Bertha Jorkins, everything. Its so eye opening and you can never read this book the same way again.

Cj Hayes

2024-12-08 02:07:18 +0000 UTC

I would also suggest that it is perhaps a little bit spoilery (sort of). It’s a mystery that could be revealed in a later book for instance

Andrew K

2024-12-08 00:26:59 +0000 UTC

Oh, come on! An entire whodunit style book a focus on a secret of a side-character/ plot and not revealed at the end? It would have been weird not to do so, especially by Rowling.

Embran

2024-12-08 00:03:59 +0000 UTC

Yeah that’s one thing that annoyed me about the movies - although I kindve get why so movie watchers know who it is. My head-canon to save me from getting annoyed is pretending there’s two different types of polyjuice potion - one voice changing and one not! :D

Andrew K

2024-12-07 22:04:34 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! Hope you and Woozle are well! These chapters…oh my goodness! There is so much packed into these two short chapters. I could go on for hours! But I won’t. In rereading these chapters, I found a couple of lines very interesting. “All he had learned there was the Disarming Spell…and what use would it be…” Well, the movies sure seem to think this was the only spell Harry ever learned! Also, from Voldemort, “it might even be painless…I do not know…” I didn’t remember this when I posted my comment on the last book club. Do you think a back-fired killing curse is painful, but one that meets its mark is not? I was really disappointed with the scene in Moody’s office in the movie. I feel the book did it so much better! For example: polyjuice potion changes your voice too. I don't like that the movies let the characters keep their own voices, EXCEPT for Barty Jr. as Moody. There is no way he could have perfected the voice in like a month, and then kept it up without any slips at all. Too unrealistic to me. I know the movie kind of (not really) tried to explain it with him doing Hagrid's voice, but honestly, I didn't even catch that the MANY times I watched the movie. Also, since when is it painful to turn back into yourself when the polyjuice wears off? Again, I much prefer the book. SO much is explained. Moody’s dustbins! Where Crouch Sr. disappeared to and why! How Barty Jr. escaped Azkaban! I hope this wasn’t too long. I tried to condense. I had a ton of notes but tried to stick to the things that I felt the strongest about. So excited for the LAST TWO chapters of Goblet of Fire!

itsanursething

2024-12-07 21:50:48 +0000 UTC

There's nothing in the book or movies up to this point that tell us that Rita's secret will be revealed. Maybe a little spoilery even though you're not giving the secret away...

itsanursething

2024-12-07 21:47:15 +0000 UTC

[spoilers below]

itsanursething

2024-12-07 21:46:24 +0000 UTC

no spoiler to be seen!

Dara Jeeling

2024-12-07 19:06:59 +0000 UTC

Happy Christas and a happy New year Veggie (and to all reading/ commenting) hope you have/had a nice one! okay... Chapter 34 Why do you think Harry was able to withstand the Imperio? I have atheory but would love to hear what you think! Chapter 35 Poor Winky! I love the book version so much more! That's all!

Dara Jeeling

2024-12-07 19:06:47 +0000 UTC

Honestly, I really dislike that movie GOF treated the audience like an idiot taking the mystery out of who put Harry's name in the goblet, though I can understand why the confession was cut. The mystery that made it necessary was gone. It's just a shame the movies so often sacrifice depth for spectacle.

Josh Z

2024-12-07 11:40:52 +0000 UTC

True. We don't know what tipped jr. to the death eaters side. But a neglecting father could be a reason for the search of someone to fill that void.

Florian Krause

2024-12-07 08:11:02 +0000 UTC

I mean, the explanation was just exposition from a character that's not gonna be in the next few films. I can understand why they cut it.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-06 22:35:24 +0000 UTC

Mr Crouch sounds like someone that only had children for the sake of his wife. The list of characters that are their parents sole child is a disturbingly long one. He should've loved his son more, but he was in a real tough spot for years and years.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-06 22:14:38 +0000 UTC

Hallo Veggie, I´ve read this book about a dozen times and still forgot the full effect of Priori Incantatem, namely a golden dome-like web surrounding Harry and Voldy, not just a single beam connecting their wands. Such an delicate yet bombastic effect screams for showing on screen. but didn´t. The figures in the movie aren´t too bad. The book says more solid than ghosts and after body formed seem recognisable. So almost lifelike. They IMO did that well both in this and last movie. Bertha and even Frank present is so great, especially circling Voldemort and hissing insults to him. And actual terror. ¨red eyes wide, livid with fear¨ the book says. So just as much as Wormtail it seems. Great karma! Regarding Veritaserum chapter...what fascinates me most is Dumbledore´s interrogation tactic. He is so furious and yet speaks softly throughout to Crouch, to not startle the man i suppose. So his feeble mind under stress wouldn´t rebel. A trick i imagine hypnotists and psy´s also use. Poor Winky! Even when truth revealed, remains so protective. More like a mother than a guardian for the mental git. mcGonagall ordered to bring along a big black dog. So you can expect Sirius present in one of the upcoming final chapters. Merry Christmas to you and Whoozle!

Embran

2024-12-06 20:15:21 +0000 UTC

Here we are. The moment in this book I've been waiting for you to get to. Chapter 35: Veritaserum is my favorite chapter in this book and one of my favorite chapters in the entire series. Barty Crouch Jr. doesn't get talked about as much compared to some other villains in the series but I think he's a very fascinating character. The fact that he was able to disguise himself as Mad-Eye Moody and play his part so well that he fooled everyone including Dumbledore for an entire school year is very interesting. His backstory is also fascinating and how he faked his death to the entire wizarding world and only his father and Winky knew he was alive. The movie gets rid of the whole mystery aspect and we don't get any backstory to him whatsoever. Also, this is the first time in the book we see Dumbledore visibly angry and the way Harry now knows why Voldemort fears Dumbledore is really telling.

John Phillips

2024-12-06 19:24:08 +0000 UTC

So one of the interesting things I feel the movie did better was fake Moody mentioning graveyards. In the film, Harry never mentioned the graveyard. So right then he knew something was up. In the book Harry does mention a graveyard. Though in the book we get to learn more about Winky who was totally ignored in the films.

Kunzite Blossom

2024-12-06 17:13:51 +0000 UTC

Harry saw Barty Crouch in the pensieve when he was young. The same sort of time Crouch and Snape were Death Eaters together. Friends might be a stretch but they certainly moved in the same circles. At the very least, they both knew of each other and knew there was a possibility that the other would join the Death Eaters after leaving school. Both of them were clever enough to know where they were headed.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-06 12:19:11 +0000 UTC

Im not sure if Snape will have been friends with Barty. It seems as though even after his arrest no one was fully sure if he was innocent or guilty, so I don’t think Barty will have been hanging around with those sorts of groups in Hogwarts, especially given who his father was, so he wouldn’t have done that publicly. That being said, there is a chance that they were familiar with one another, but there’s also a chance Snape didn’t know of Barty’s true allegiance. For instance, the books suggest Snape didn’t know that Black was innocent until it was proven, so I’m not sure how open some Death Eaters were with each other. Definitely a possibility they were familiar, but I suppose that’s up to our own head canons! For me, I feel like even when Snape was hanging around with future Death Eaters, he wasn’t their friend by any means

Andrew K

2024-12-06 12:06:20 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie and Woozle! Hope you had a great Christmas time! 🎄 When Imposter-Moody talked about his plan to kill Harry and earn Voldemorts eternal gratefulness, do you think that would have worked out for him? Because I just can't imagine Voldy being super grateful for that after he tried to kill Harry himself to prove a point and failed at it in front of all his death eaters. I think he would have felt threatened by Barty Jr. and possibly killed him. But I don't know, maybe I am reading too much insecurity into Voldemort. 😅

Tawny Owl

2024-12-06 11:46:55 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie 😊 Before i comment on these two Chapters, I want to go back to a discussion point 2 book clubs ago. I’ve been catching up and it stuck with be. You talked about someones comment that it would have been hilarious and super interesting to see the Dursleys visit Harry before the third task. While that would’ve been quite a site, it’s not possible. Muggles can’t see Hogwarts! To them, it just looks like an old, rundown castle. Plus, they suddenly remember that they have to do something urgently when they are getting close. At least I am pretty sure that was a thing in like Book 1 or something like that… Chapter 34: Priori Incantatem always seemed kind of iffy to me. I get why it is there and why it is important to the story, but it also feels like a weird way to just make sure Harry gets away. I dont know how to explain it, it just feels weird. Chapter 35: I loved this Chapter soo much! And when I listened to this book for the first time as a kid, it came like a complete shock to me! Maybe i wasn’t the brightest child, but I had no idea, that Moody was the bad guy! I know, he is not the real Moody but i loved this character so much! Also, I think Barty Crouch Jr. is pretty much the only completly loyal servant that Voldemort has! He was scared as a child, yes. But now, he shows no fear! No fear of punishment, death, Voldemort or anything!

Judith

2024-12-06 11:28:30 +0000 UTC

You keep repeating that Barty jr. was in Slytherin. Where does this information come from, please? Barty's Hogwarts house is never revealed in the books. "He recognised him by sight without anyone saying who it was beforehand." So did Harry. Using your logic, Harry and Barty jr. are old friends.

Hawwah

2024-12-06 11:23:41 +0000 UTC

Spoiler Protection!

Florian Krause

2024-12-06 09:58:32 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie, pretty horrific stuff being revealed. Mr. Crouch is a truly monsterous person. Trapped between his emotions for his wife, and cold rational understanding that he can't let his son roam around. you don't need to be a death eater to be a villain. Also technically Winky played a big part in Voldemorts return, without her, Bertha would have never known about Barty Crouch Jr. Also you now see the terrifying effect, about what Vita Serum does to a person. Snape threatened to use it on Harry is insane. What do you think about the plan Voldi and Barty schemed together in total?

Florian Krause

2024-12-06 09:58:17 +0000 UTC

Okay, I have to confess something. I really like the character of Mr Crouch sr. I actually think he might be my second favorite HP character (after Severus of course). I just know some people are now thinking "omg, what's wrong with her, she likes all the evil characters". Well, for starters, I don't think Mr Crouch was evil. I think he was a person who did one wrong thing (breaking his son out of prison) and it dragged on with him for the rest of his life. From that moment on he was forced to make moral compromises. Choosing the lesser evil to prevent the bigger evil. Keeping his murderous son under Imperius to protect the public was one of those choices. I think breaking his son out of Azkaban was wrong. At the same time I understand why he did it. His motivation was not malicious. He didn't do it to harm anybody. None of the choices he made make him an evil person in my eyes. Just an imperfect one. Second of all, I like characters that have more to them than meets the eye. Mr Crouch was a very different person to how people (and we readers) perceived him. We were led to believe that he was cold and uncaring and uninterested in anything except for his career. Now we learned that he was a man who deeply loved his wife. We were led to believe that he was a rigid rule-follower. Now we learned that he had been continuously breaking the law for more than a decade. We were led to believe that he was a cruel master to Winky. Now we learned that they were partners in crime (literally!), he confided in her, listened to her and valued her opinions (she convinced him to take Barty jr. to the World Cup). We now know the real reason why he sacked her. We shouldn't be too quick to pass judgment on people. PS: Here we have it. The proof of which side is Severus really on. It's right here in plain sight. I'm talking about the Foe-Glass of course. Crouch jr. is Voldemort's most dedicated supporter. The Foe-Glass makes it clear that Severus is Crouch's enemy, just like Dumbledore and McGonagall. If you're an enemy of Voldemort's most dedicated, most capable supporter, you're an enemy of Voldemort himself. QED.

Hawwah

2024-12-06 02:22:45 +0000 UTC

Snape is clearly familiar with him. He recognised him by sight without anyone saying who it was beforehand. He knew it was him despite believing Barty Crouch Jnr to be dead and rotting on Azkaban Island. They were roughly the same age. They were probably in the same house. They joined the same terrorist organisation at roughly the same time. They both hated their fathers. They both sought power and acclaim by serving Voldemort. To put it bluntly, there's a metric ton of evidence to suggest they were friendly. Similarly both likely knew Regulus Black. Another young Death Eater. It even seems probable that Crouch Jnr and Regulus Black were on the Slytherin Quidditch team together.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-06 00:44:00 +0000 UTC

Ooftypoof, Veggie! I kind of love Frank Bryce. I just appreciate his moment so much. He has no idea what is actually going on, but that doesn’t stop him from understanding what is important to understand and trying to help Harry. It’s mildly funny that the movie used the method that Moody tried to use to tell Harry about the gillyweed. I guess that’s why most people don’t mind the change, it’s almost what happened in the books 🤣 And now we finally get the context of why Winky doesn’t hate her master, even after his apparent cruelty at the beginning of the book. Barty Crouch Sr. was in a very difficult position. He knew exactly why Winky was there and who had actually set off the dark mark, but if he showed any of that understanding, the suspicion would fall on him instead of her. It was still cruel to dismiss her, but I imagine that he didn’t feel like he had a choice, and was possibly also angry that he’d let Winky convince him to take this risk. And this shows us another aspect of house elf character. Winky does not care what Barty Jr is guilty of, or what his beliefs are. She clearly loves all of the people in her family, and would do anything for them, including subjecting herself to her own fear of heights

Ashley Evers

2024-12-06 00:41:56 +0000 UTC

We don't know which house was Barty jr. in. There's nothing to suggest Barty jr. and Severus used to be friends.

Hawwah

2024-12-06 00:18:15 +0000 UTC

Yeah, there is certainly a lot of anoyance in the mix😅 and disgusted might be to strong a word...maybe contemptious or disdained🤔?

Diego Zenhäusern

2024-12-05 23:40:40 +0000 UTC

I think you're right. It's just that Harry thinks directly of Dumbledore when he hears the song, so I didn't think I was taking too much of a risk. I delete!

Mel

2024-12-05 22:59:36 +0000 UTC

Yep, Dumbledore confirms it in the next chapter.

Alias93

2024-12-05 22:31:48 +0000 UTC

I'm 99% certain the Phoenix feathers coming from Fawkes comes up later in the books.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-05 22:26:26 +0000 UTC

It could also be hint towards Snape's true allegiance. Certainly I think Barty Jnr has come to the conclusion that Snape's allegiance to Dumbledore is not feigned. I think the movies mention Slug Club. Maybe it was just in passing though. They didn't make a big thing of it.

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-05 22:24:57 +0000 UTC

Just pointing out, the suggestion about the phoenix feathers being Fawkes' might be a bit leading?

Alias93

2024-12-05 22:21:49 +0000 UTC

[reply below]

Alias93

2024-12-05 22:20:57 +0000 UTC

I find it interesting how it is pointed out that as he enters "Moody's" office with Dumbledore and McGonagall, Snape stares at himself in the foe glass. I think he's figured out at this point that Moody is a death eater in disguise, and since the mirror considers him a foe of its current owner, he's getting confirmation that he will not be welcomed back among the death eaters. I could be reading too much into this, but that's the only reason I can think of for why it is specifically mentionned in the text. Not a very important reveal, but did the movies mention the "Slug" club? I was under the impression that it was a book exclusive term.

Alias93

2024-12-05 22:17:35 +0000 UTC

[reply below]

Alias93

2024-12-05 22:12:32 +0000 UTC

I wouldn't say he was disgusted, more annoyed. "You can lead a Harry Potter to water, but you can't make him drink."

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-05 22:11:14 +0000 UTC

Hey Veggie. Don't worry about the 3 chapter thing, it was only a suggestion. Look after yourself! Hope you had a great Christmas. The Veela at the World Cup had some interesting, mind-affecting abilities right? It seems like the Veela broke the Imperius Curse and that's how Jnr stole Harry's wand. Barty Jnr may be a terrible person but you can't deny he's a fascinating character and a brilliant wizard. His "Closer than a son" line is very revealing about his character; he just wanted to be acknowledged, respected and loved. Something to consider is Snape's reaction to Jnr. Jnr was only two years younger than Snape. They were in the same Hogwarts House. They attended Hogwarts at the same time. Both were extremely intelligent and capable wizards, both would join the Death Eaters after leaving school. Snape was seeing a long-dead school friend miraculously return to life. Were there any changes from the Movie that surprised you in these chapters? How do you think Wormtail reacted to the ghostly Potters? Do you think Barty Crouch Snr loved his son? Do you think he held out hope that his son could be redeemed after his stint in Azkaban? Given what you know about Film 5, what do you think happens next?

S1lm4r1l

2024-12-05 22:07:07 +0000 UTC

Thank you, hard to remember the specifics I will fix it

Howiedoing

2024-12-05 19:53:49 +0000 UTC

Just a heads up, the dementor kiss happens in chapter 36, that will be in the next book club.

Alias93

2024-12-05 18:55:59 +0000 UTC

[spoilers below]

Alias93

2024-12-05 18:55:24 +0000 UTC

Hey veggie This time when re-listening to these chapters, I couldn’t help but feel super proud of Harry in this moment when he decides to stand up and die upright. Harry’s instincts are what makes him such a great wizard. I’ve seen plenty of ranking videos online stating that he isn’t considered the best wizard of his age, but I have to totally disagree. A lot of them putting Hermione over him. Obviously we all know Hermione is an extremely smart and talented witch and he wouldn’t have been able to beat Voldemort without her. I don’t believe she would have been able to escape him like Harry did. In my head cannon Harry turns out to be an almost Dumbledore esque wizard after the series ends. In the next chapter, we finally get the reveal of Barty Crouch Jr. They left so much of the explanation out of the movie. It’s kind of insane to me. The way that he escaped from Azkaban. I’m pretty sure they don’t even explain properly that he kills his father in the movie, but I could be wrong. I always thought the detail about him transfiguring his father into a bone and then burying him on the school grounds was dark and cool. As as I pretty much read every book before watching any of the movies. It always seemed odd to me watching reactions and hearing from people that have only watched the movies. That they were able to understand certain aspects of the movies/story without what I think are very important details.

Howiedoing

2024-12-05 18:45:29 +0000 UTC

I have so much to say about these chapters. Let's see, first the reverse spell effect (I’m not about to try and spell the actual name lol) is a much bigger event in the book. There is something so terrifying about Harry’s effort not to lose this wand struggle. The way he is not quite sure if he’s taking to himself or hearing things only he can is intense. I like that the death echo of Frank is amused by the scene before him and even gives Harry encouragement. He doesn’t know anything about magic, but he knows this is a fight Harry must win. Bertha gives encouragement to but it’s a lot more gentle, and she talks to Harry like she’s been friends with him for a while, it’s very sweet considering they never met. Something about Lilly’s appearance here affects me every time I read this. The movie doesn’t quite capture the gravity of this situation because it can’t stay in the moment. The music tries to compensate for this but still the movie is missing something that I can’t quite put my finger on…maybe it’s the fact that the movie aged everyone from the prior generation up, I really wish they hadn't. It adds to the tragedy of their deaths that they —especially Harry's parents were in their 20s or so The next chapter has some key differences in characterization that I really prefer. First I love that Harry is not emotional here, he is just in quiet shock. Second Harry’s perspective of Dumbledore coming to the rescue is so fantastic and only works because we have seen him be kind, charming and whimsical to this point. But a switch is flipped and in that moment Harry truly understands the reputation Dumeldore has in magical society and why Voldemort was only ever afraid of him. Since the movie has him angry the whole time, the gravity of this moment is completely gone, which is a shame because Gambeon could have done it so well if the director gave a damn. It still annoys me that the movie cut Barty Crouch Jrs truth serum confession, also poor Winky.

Josh Z

2024-12-05 18:33:28 +0000 UTC

Wfftitwff Veggie!! In chapter 10 it says the following in Rita's article: "Whether this statement will be enough to quash the rumors that several bodies were removed from the woods an hour later, remains to be seen." At the time you're led to believe by Mr. Weasley that this was just Rita making things up. But reading the book this time along with you it occured to me that there might be some truth in this statement: What if there were actually people that saw Crouch Sr. recovering his son's stupefied body from the woods (without recognizing him of course) and Rita just decided to blow ip the story a little and write that there were multiple bodies being removed from the woods? Also: I love how disgusted Barty Crouch Jr. was at Harry for not trying to cheat in the second task by talking to Neville😅

Diego Zenhäusern

2024-12-05 17:16:27 +0000 UTC

Ohhh Veggie, don’t you dare be sour, clap for your world famous 12-time champs, and feel the powerrr!! (Is it too soon?) - I would’ve loved to see the Voldemort/Harry fight play out in the movie more like the book - all the colours (especially the gold), levitating - it’s so out of this world that it even shocks Voldemort. Harry & Voldemort’s red and green spells clashing in the movies set a precedent for the rest of the films that I didn’t like. The clashing sparks was the movie’s go-to for two duelling wizards, and it felt repetitive. It was a lazy way to showcase magic. - The afterlife is an interesting aspect of the series for me. The figures from Voldemort’s wand have memories and knowledge of their deaths. Are they real? Are they figments? What do you think? - Barty Crouch Sr. being transfigured into a bone is chilling. It’s way more uncomfortable than Harry finding his body in the movie. P.S. you should be really proud of yourself for vlogging the Studio Tour. It must’ve been tough to overcome the nerves and on behalf of everyone here I’m sure I can say thank you for such a brilliant video. Loved it!

Andrew K

2024-12-05 16:06:00 +0000 UTC

I couldn't agree more!! I can see that chapter illustration in my head right now... with Voldemorts conjured shield. So good, so so good!!

Rhea H Pelotto

2024-12-05 15:55:20 +0000 UTC

No matter how many times reread this book, I still get chills every time when I get to this moment. I love how it is referenced again in OotP with the title of the chapter where Dumbledore and Voldemort have their duel, definitely the chapter title that hits the hardest in my opinion.

Alias93

2024-12-05 15:21:02 +0000 UTC

[spoilers below]

Alias93

2024-12-05 15:19:19 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie :) (Ho, ho, ho 🎅🏻) I can't remember my first reaction when I read the Veritaserum chapter... but what I can say is that every time I re-read it (and I re-read the books every year), I completely forget that Crouch is invisible and sitting during the world cup. I fall for it EVERY TIME. I'm like: Damn, it's true! Psychology comment aha : What also stands out for me in these chapters is how fearful Voldemort seems to be. "Voldemort who looked astonished, almost fearful…" He shows too few, if any, ‘vulnerable’ emotions, but we already know that he's afraid of death. Even though in the description he's a bit scared before the ghosts appear, I can't help seeing a link, but I'm probably just looking for the smallest detail. They're there out of love, and they're there to defeat Voldemort through the power of love. In my opinion, as well as not feeling love in any form, I think he's afraid of it in the literal sense and that this is a good way for the author to portray it. Some people think that love makes you strong, that it can save you... others think that it weakens you, that it slows you down. For Voldemort, the night he tried to kill Harry, it literally reduced him to nothing, and tonight, love can kill him. For Harry, it's what saves him. In a way, these are the two facets of love that humans can perceive. The song of the phoenix that resounds when the two wands meet thanks to the feather he gave. I've always wondered why, or how, an animal could provide two wands that were destined, admittedly, to meet, but destined for two totally different emotions? A bit of a cliché about good and evil. As it happens, the phoenix rises from its ashes, something that Voldemort would like... to be eternal. I can understand why the phoenix suits him. (Even if that means the phoenix is willing to die, which Voldemort isn't) unlike Harry... and that's why I think the phoenix fits Harry. In 7, we know that he ‘opens at the close’ and accepts death. And then it doesn't come. He's reborn, like a phoenix. Even in this chapter, he is prepared to die on his feet, like his father. But that may be a bit far-fetched on my part.

Mel

2024-12-05 15:15:08 +0000 UTC

If the movie had tried to have BCJ explain the events of the world cup: ''So at that point I had already started working for my master again, but I decided to bail and go watch the Quidditch World Cup. When the other death eaters started their marching parade, I hung out for a bit and then decided to cast the dark mark when everything was over, the camera zoomed in on my face and I did an evil grin, it was sick. Anyway, I almost got spotted by Harry Potter, the kid I was supposed to bring to my master through an incredibly complicated plan, so I dipped. Oh, who won the match? How would I know, that thing was over before it even started.''

Alias93

2024-12-05 15:11:36 +0000 UTC

[no spoilers in my reply, but you know the drill]

Alias93

2024-12-05 15:11:18 +0000 UTC

And here we have it, the chapter that explains (almost) everything. Of the 7 HP books, I think this is the one that is the most interesting to read a second time, because when you know about everything that was going on you can notice the clues that were always there, but so well hidden. What did you think about Winky's role in all of this, and the reveal about what actually happened at the Quidditch World Cup? I'll give props to the movie where it's due: the portrayal of Amos Diggory's despair when he finds Cedric's dead body was heartbreaking. And since Dobby wasn't in the movie, going with what was originally plan A and having Neville be the one to tell Harry about the gillyweed was the right play. I think this (and giving Neville more screentime) is why people didn't mind this change, it's one of the few that actually made sense. I appreciate that book Crouch Jr didn't call Neville a ''witless wonder'' though, and actually told Harry that Neville would have been able to help him at once if he had only bothered to ask... The lesson for book Harry: become a closer friend with Neville ASAP. I think the reason why the veritaserum was so effective on Crouch Jr was that he was actually very willing to confess everything: he didn't betray himself like in the movie by mentionning the graveyard, he straight up tells Harry he was the one behind everything, because he's very proud of what he's done and wants people to know about it (probably because his father never really showed any interest in him). And finally... with all the memes about ''Dumbledore said calmly'', the main reason I dislike what the movie did is that it completely ruins the very impactful moment when Harry sees Dumbledore being properly angry for the first time. Harry finds it frightening, even though Dumbledore's anger is absolutely not turned towards him. And don't even talk to me about the moment when movie Dumbledore physically hurts Harry by grabbing his injured arm, what was the point of that?

Alias93

2024-12-05 14:57:35 +0000 UTC

✨ Comment divider ✨

Milana

2024-12-05 14:25:46 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! 👋👋👋 Chapter 34: Harry is so brave! I love how we delve deeper into Voldemort’s character. It's fascinating that he’ll go to extremes—like killing a child to prove his dominance—but doesn’t care that the Death Eaters see him resorting to a curse to force Harry to say "no", which could be viewed as a sign of weakness (could be taken by some as if he couldn't make Harry surrender without the curse). It’s like his fixation on winning blinds him to details he might otherwise care about. Chapter 35: I love this chapter so much!! Remember reading it for the first time and having to take a break after to digest it all - so so good! Moody's frustration with Harry is so real (teenage boys!) - I could watch a whole movie of just him trying to feed Harry clues and growing more and more desperate, bet that would be hilarious

Milana

2024-12-05 14:24:39 +0000 UTC

Hi veggie This is why I hate the Dumbledore said calmly part in the movie. As you know he is super intense, screaming in his face. This is the first time Dumbledore glint in his eye is gone. He is full focused on protection Harry from the threat. This scene in the movie is ruined because the part of the movie. It is a powerful moment when you have a character who is as calm as Dumbledore get super intense like that.

Collin Anderson

2024-12-05 14:21:41 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! How did you predict Crouch got his son out of Azkaban? 🤯 Since the mystery has been revealed, I can finally say why I prefer Crouch Jr's book portrayal in the trial scene. The fact that he was able seem so innocent and manipulative unlike in the movie, makes him a more terrifying villain imo, and makes it more believable he was able to fool Dumbledore. His acting skills are top-notch 😁 -It's such clever writing that fake Moody's comments about "hating a death eater who walked free" are true for both Moody and Crouch Jr, which is part of why he was able to play him so well. -How did Dumbledore know to fetch Winky BEFORE the Crouch reveal? I mean, we know Dumbledore was watching the Crouch trial scene in the pensieve. Secondly, when Sr appears in school grounds to Krum and Harry, he says "I must tell Dumbeldore... my fault... all my fault... Bertha... dead... all my fault... my SON..", which Harry relays to Dumbledore. Dumbledore should also know about the stolen polyjuice ingredients through Snape, and about the Winky/Crouch incident at the World Cup through Sirius. He must have just put two and two together. Even with all these factors though, the Crouch family being involved must have been an educated guess, and not 100% certain, right? -Do you remember that during Quidditch World Cup, the book described Winky moving in the woods "as though someone invisible were trying to hold her back"? It's such a cool detail on re-reads since it actually WAS Crouch Jr under the invisibility cloak! -Overall, I think getting this backstory to the messy Crouch family is more satisfying than the movie where nothing is explained. I feel like the reveal doesn't mean as much in the movie. Even the Crouches aside, it's nice we get to know how Dumbledore knew it wasn't the real Moody.

Me Here

2024-12-05 14:13:21 +0000 UTC

Hi Veggie! Hope you and Woozle had an amazing Christmas! Both these chapters have always been captivating for me, I literally can’t put the book down when I get to them. Chapter 34 “Bow to death Harry” is such a powerful line and Harry’s determination to oppose Voldemort is an amazing display of his willpower. Voldemort taunting Harry by detailing his parents’ last moments is so devastating. My heart breaks for 2 characters in this scene when the ghosts/ spirits show up. Firstly of course, Harry, up until this point he has only ever seen or heard echos of his parents but this is probably the closest he will ever get to having them back again. Talking directly to James, his father who he had never really known, must have been such a powerful moment for him. Secondly, for Wormtail, the appearance of James and Lily would definitely hit him hard, to see the culmination of the chain of events he had started, their death and now seemingly Harry’s, his friends’ own son. Chapter 35 I still can’t believe that Amos Diggory’s “That’s my son! My boy!” and his scream/ cry was a movie-exclusive, his actor did an astonishing job in that scene, still one of the most heartbreaking moments in the series imo. We finally find out who the loyal servant is, David Tennant- I mean Barty Crouch Jr. Love the foreshadowing of Dumbledore, Snape and McGonagall approaching with the shapes in the foe glass. I feel like it was a crime for the movie to exclude Crouch’s explanation of the events before and after the world cup. Anyways, that’s all for now, looking forward to the final 2 chapters!

Snowspeeders &space shuttles

2024-12-05 13:47:10 +0000 UTC

Oh-my-geerrrd!!!! Make way everybody!!!!! It is time!!!! IT-IS-TIME!! We have arrived!! I originally wrote this part May 2022 “At that moment, Harry fully understood for the first time why people said Dumbledore was the only wizard Voldemort had ever feared…” “…a sense of power seemed to radiate from Dumbledore as though he was giving off burning heat” HANDS DOWN one of my favorite moments in the entire series AND, genuinely, one of my favorite character descriptions in ALL OF THE LITERATURE I HAVE EVER READ. No exaggeration. Just doesn't get much better than that… for me, at least. Truth be told, I don't watch a lot of soccer (sorry I meant REAL football 😉) but, I've seen clips and highlights of you Brits going bat shit crazy and that's pretty accurate to how this moment makes ME feel. Like I'm in a bar/pub somewhere and I slam a glass of beer down making it sloosh everywhere, stand-up and start pounding my chest like King Kong then switch to fist pumping the air chanting “DUMBLEDORE!! DUMBLEDORE” in the deepest voice I can muster Back to the present REALLY looking forward to hearing your thoughts on EVERYTHING in these chapters from the way Harry feels during the Phoenix song to all the pieces of the Crouch puzzle fitting so perfectly together. It's quite amazing, isnt it?! Lastly, seasons greetings to everyone…. Well everyone except “Voldy the Petulant Prick” of course!!! I'll be laughing over that one for YEARS!! Thank you!! CHEERS!! #dumbledoresarmyforlife #sorrystillnojusticeforweatherby

Rhea H Pelotto

2024-12-05 13:45:15 +0000 UTC

🪄 Potato spoilers! 🪄

Steven

2024-12-05 13:35:19 +0000 UTC

Merry Christmas & a Happy new year! Veggie & the lovely woozle! Chapter 34 - Again, I think the movie did a good job adapting this chapter. It’s a powerful scene. Chapter 35: -i think the movie and book did the scene of them returning from the maze very well, Amos’ actor specifically. The way it’s written feels very empty, like Harry isn’t taking in all the details properly. It feels like the ‘numbing’ sensation you get after being through something traumatic. It’s so realistic. -i remember reading this book for the first time and hearing how Barty Jr had planned everything and It was SO satisfying to get all the details of his plan. It’s worrying that Azkaban has worse security than Gringotts, maybe the ministry should commission the goblins to make it more secure

Steven

2024-12-05 13:27:35 +0000 UTC

I'll try again- Hello, father! XD Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Hope you and Woozle have had a nice time this festive season. Chapter 34 The series would have been far shorter if Voldemort had just killed Harry while he was immobilised. But no, he had to deliver a James Bond villain speech and peacock about duelling him to demonstrate his superiority 🙄 I wouldn't be surprised if the Death Eaters were performing Duel of the Fates in the background. The original printing (and I think the audiobooks) feature an error with priori incantatem- James' ghost leaves the wand before Lily, even though he was killed first. The portkeys at the Quidditch World Cup gave the impression that they're a single-use item which are programmed to teleport at a specific time- there was a box of discarded ones upon arrival, and they use a different item to travel back home. So why does the Triwizard cup function as a two-way ad-hoc portkey in this chapter? Did the Force Ghosts make it so? Or could Harry & Cedric have immediately grabbed the cup and travelled back to Hogwarts? Chapter 35 - Veritaserum Way back in the very first book club, you said "I'll be interested to see how much Barty Crouch, Jr will visibly be in the book." I have waited so long to tell you how ironic that statement was- he's in it quite a lot early on, INvisibly! So looking back, when Winky says "I is seeing no-one, sir" in The Dark Mark, she wasn't lying! I find it odd Crouch Jr can refer to himself as Most Faithful Servant when he was screaming about being innocent at his trial... Sending love to you and Woozle.

Jake M

2024-12-05 13:19:57 +0000 UTC

[CLOSED] - The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 34 & 35 of The Goblet of Fire!

Comments

Yeah I like this idea. From what the books convey, Muggles can't view these places in general but if they are accompanied by a wizard then they'll be able to visit that place

Also an idea. I love the world she created! So many possibilities!

To me it’s not about lifting any spells. The purpose of the spells is to stop muggles from finding hogwarts, not to make it impossible for them to be there. Just literally hold the hand of a wizard and they can be taken there.

Omg youbare right! I totally forgot about that! So for me, their are two possibilities: 1. J.K. Rowling Just messed up and wrote whatever she needed for her Story. Or 2. The spell can bei modified for specific people in order to stop it from workung for them.

And it would've been interesting to see him and Bellatrix together!

Best Are You Being Served reference just for past Christmas! ^^

But it belongs to Moody, doesn’t it? I always assumed it did, and that’s why Barty Crouch Jr has it

Its a shame Barty Jr was only in one book. It would’ve been so intriguing to have him as a villain for the rest of the series for the reasons you said

Hi Garry. I think it's established the Foe-Glass shows Crouch jr.'s enemies. No one else's.

Harry New Year!

In your view, could a muggle - who is born from muggle parents - have a small amount of magic? But not enough to be considered a witch or wizard? And is it possible for two wizard to have a completely muggle child? Or will they always have a squib? What about half-blood muggles?

Me neither! I never caught it, but someone on here mentioned it to me and now I can…kind of…? see it? I still don’t like it though

if you still want to write an essay on this chapter then you could do it in the replies to your post and the rest of us can all have a read and discussion 😃

(Spoiler barrier)

Yeah, I see it more as there being a scale of how much magical power you have, and a threshold under which you are not considered a witch/wizard. So for me, squibs could still have some (minuscule) magical power, but not enough to be able to join the wizarding community.

Yeah, it kinda explains why he is the way he is. At least a little bit.

I guess it’s like staring into the mirror of erised. Just pure longing. He’s there because he wants to be part of the magical world, but he can’t ever be.

Interesting theory!

Basically she lied, and her description of them was bad (Harry remarks something like “it sounded like she had only ever heard a description of a dementor”). But her description of the sensation was what convinced them. She shouldn’t have lied though, it hurts her case.

Source https://web.archive.org/web/20110713111531/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=19

Are you sure?! I thought she described the dementors in the hearing. And wasnt she asked wether or not she could see them and she said yes? But maybe i'm tripping. And no, fantastic beasts ist not canon. At least not for me.

Yeah I’ve just found it in the inside cover - first edition!

And re-reading it, wormtails new hand does appear first. Doesn’t he use his wand to perform legilimency on Bertha? I guess maybe that sort of spell doesn’t exactly have a physical form

Huh. Never noticed that before!

Bananas

Yes some were printed that way i can't check my copy atm I think one of my children misplaced it lol I'll find it eventually then I'll be able to know haha.

Right after Harry calls him out about the graveyard.

I kinda don't see how this relates to my or S1lm4r1l's post here? Who do you mean with they?

i am fairly sure is was a portkey to take the winner to the "winners circle". no one was surprised that they showed up. the theory i like is that Voldemort planed on killing Harry then polyjuce into Harry and come back to kill Dumbledore, or other infiltration.

My copy of the book has lily appearing last! Must be an old edition

Diffindo!

Yeah my minds eye version of Pettigrew he looks very plain, skinny, pathetic. Timothy spall has a sort of villainous creepiness to him, which to be fair is a really good portrayal, just not what I imagine.

Wait when does he do hagrids voice?

What’s your theory?

I think if they were taken to hogwarts they would see it. This actually happens in fantastic beasts, although I guess we aren’t considering that canon. But even so, filch is a muggle and he lives there (yes squibs are muggles, no Mrs figg can’t see dementors)

Glad I could help! 😂 I didn't even notice it before someone mentioned it in this comment section. But I'm not really satisfied with my theory yet bc it still has a few holes (but as Veggie says, you can explain everything with magic 😆)

Just made me think…. I suppose it’s lucky Percy never happened upon Crouch Jr. while under the employ of Sr. or he might have ended up like poor Bertha!

LOVE this idea about the Portkey! Never thought too much about it on a first time read, but its bugged me a lot recently! You have put my mind at rest…. That is my head cannon too now 😆👌🏻

ops, i must have been more sleepy then i thought. i read it as there was some kind of spoiler. my bad.

I don't think Grace was asking Veggie if he thought Moody did talk to Snape or not, just stating that he didn't but couldn't mention it in the earlier book club because it was only confirmed here. Or maybe I am misunderstanding?

My bad, I misread what you wrote. Perhaps: "At the time, Fake Moody claimed that Snape told him about Barty Crouch Snr in the grounds. Did Fake Moody lie, or did he really talk to Snape?"

Yes Hawwah is just saying it is spelt “Veritaserum”, so maybe just to change that to not confuse Veggie haha

i do not understand your point. where is the spoiler? or is it i made Veritaserum two words? i have only do the audio books i thought it was two words

Nor me. You could argue that because the real Moody owns it, perhaps he sees Snape in the reflection because he still doesn't trust him.

Oh yeah that's what I meant, I didn't mean it actually happened, but that was one of Veggie's theories. Is there a way I could word that better do you think?

Really? I'm amazed people don't think he's a Slytherin. It hadn't crossed my mind that people would think he wasn't until recently.

Yeah, I was actually under the impression he was in ravenclaw, that's what I've seen a lot online at least.

I think it's certainly a good hint, but I'm not too sure on how the foe glass works. Is it based on opinions? So after Severus supposedly turned to Voldemort again, if harry looked into a foe glass would he see snape there? Or would he not since snape is actually an ally?

Yes, I agree about pettigrew, the thing that is so devastating about his betrayal is that he was a good guy, he was actually friends with many people in the order, especially the marauders, and I feel like that is overlooked a lot because he was portrayed as simply evil.

I agree with you about frank Bryce, that always makes me tear up a bit

Ooh that's interesting, it could make sense because Percy only apologized to his family after wormtails death...

I'm sorry for being that person, but it's spelled Veritaserum. (Veritas is Latin for "truth", hence the name.) PS: Agreed 100% on Winky.

:)

There is a theory that Percy was put under the imperius curse by Wormtail when Crouch Sr started working from home, either to prevent another Bertha situation or maybe because the same thing happened again, and that Percy only got fully free from it when Wormtail died in DH.

Spoiler Protection charm!

spoilers below

Harry under the Imperius Curse: "I feel happy, contented, peaceful. What the hell is this sorcery!?"

I think the costume dictated a lot of that.

Hmm. Badass, witty, underestimated. I'm gonna leave you with those ;)

Do we get a tease on your favourite character? :P

I mean it's possible it was made so that only the four champions could trigger it, or there was a timer but only to prevent it from triggering too early, not at a specific time.

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It's a shame we never got to see Crouch Jr and Bellatrix fight over who is Voldemort's most dedicated follower, now that would have been something...

It certainly indicates which side Crouch thinks Severus is on. I don't think Snape would say Crouch is Voldemort's most dedicated or capable supporter.

Thanks. Since Veggie doesn´t read these replies...that for the big unveil of Rita´s secret we have to wait for 2025 (which means it could also be theoretically next book ^^)

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We know it can last a long time, in DH they are using the polyjuice potion that Moody prepared for Harry's extraction throughout the whole book. However that's before you add the bits of the person you want to turn into, maybe it's limited in time after that?

I always assumed she smuggled the potion in when they switched places. We don’t know if it has a shelf life, so maybe she brought a bunch of it 🤷🏼‍♀️

She took Polyjuice Potion with one of her sons hairs in it. She didn't drink it all at once. She rationed it.

Fine, I´ll remove the line. but again usually in a whodunit book where they build the mystery up the entire book it will be revealed at the end. Especially a side-plot.

He is quintessentially Slytherin. He has almost every single Slytherin trait.

we do NOT know which house Varty Crouch JR was in! He could as well have been a Ravenclaw - it's stated nowhere he was aSlytherin (officially) if I am not mistaken

No Spoilers

I would also suggest that it is perhaps a little bit spoilery (sort of). It’s a mystery that could be revealed in a later book for instance

Oh, come on! An entire whodunit style book a focus on a secret of a side-character/ plot and not revealed at the end? It would have been weird not to do so, especially by Rowling.

Yeah that’s one thing that annoyed me about the movies - although I kindve get why so movie watchers know who it is. My head-canon to save me from getting annoyed is pretending there’s two different types of polyjuice potion - one voice changing and one not! :D

There's nothing in the book or movies up to this point that tell us that Rita's secret will be revealed. Maybe a little spoilery even though you're not giving the secret away...

[spoilers below]