Patreon alternatives or Bulk Patreon?

I'm on board. One other detail is we won't be able to use the monthly maximum option, which I use to be able to afford making slightly higher pledges. I'm really hoping that backlash will make this change as proposed short-lived but we'll see i guess. I wonder if waiting a month or two before changing up might be a good idea. Then again, someone has to stand up and do something and well, you have a reputation to uphold. It's right there in the name. 😀

Don't worry about my finances, i'm very stable and i can delay payment as long as I do get paid in full. As for patreon's issues, it's clear their statement of trying to help the creators is just deflection. The cynical view is that the fees are just a way of gouging the patrons for more money. After all, most of those fees do NOT go the creators. Fortunately, their flat fee policy actually let's us use the bulking trick to dilute the fees. If i can't find a better platform i'll take advantage of it.

NurdRage

While it seems like the bulk model may be a way to defray the fees, I worry about the issues you mention, plus I think it's unfair to you to potentially have to go so long between collecting contributions. I'll support you whatever you do, but I think this is a huge miscalculation on the part of Patreon to not provide an accommodation for the per post model. They only charge once per month for everything in any case, so while it doesn't affect me much right now I don't understand the fairness in such a "per transaction" fee. Are they trying to encourage (aggressively) moving to the per month model? They are also discouraging spreading out patronage dollars to larger numbers of creators, which I find to be an attack on one of the great things about the whole concept. I feel like we need to put as much pressure as possible on them to reconsider and adopt a flat % fee. If I were looking at paying over 35% in fees simply because of the way in which I made contributions I'd be super pissed. I've even seen creators that take $0.50/video pledges. I guess I just can't imagine how automation is unable to make the cost of extra lines on an electronic ledger more negligible. For the record, I'm more than happy to cover some or all of the administration costs for the service, I just feel like someone either didn't do the math right here, they aren't being up front about their motivations, or else they just need to restructure their process.

I like the 10-fer model. I hope it doesn't backfire on you. Count me in/let me know when to change the donation.

Sean Walton

Your fee dilution idea sounds fine. I'm on board.

Nathaniel Nifong

I appreciate your thought. I was unfortunately one of those ignorant contributors who had no idea how many fees they took out on your end. I try to give many of the youtube creators that I watch regularly $1/vid with the logic that if everyone who watches regulalarly does that the dollars add up for you. But all those dollars also add up for me. I disagree with the people who say it's only a few dollars in fees because as a percentage I'd never invest in something that lost me that much money. I want to support you in what you do, I think it's brilliant. Obviously I was paying fees before and just didn't realize, so I would be willing to pay slightly higher fees now, but think Patreon needs to find a more fair model (like charging me a flat fee monthly for their service). I would be willing to do the bulk video thing and hopefully enough people stick around so you end up with more money then before (which in fairness to Patreon was the whole point of this)!

I won't punish you under any circumstances for the actions of others. I will support you in spite of these things. Having said that, thank you for exploring options. I will follow the means that supports you the most.

Michael Aichlmayr

thank you for that link! i'm reading through it now.

NurdRage

I don't know how others feel about it but for me it is less about the amount and more how patreon handled it. Shifting the actual transaction fees onto patrons would have been fine (i.e. 35c+% per transaction rather than pledge). Even the new proposal with an acknowledgement that patreon will receive a larger cut of revenue would be far more acceptable than how it was actually handled.

Firstly, thank you for addressing this change in the fees and trying to come up with alternatives. This change although pitched as helping creators does seem to be about increasing patreons' cut of the revenue. The amount is small and something I would be willing to pay but the way they handled it left me seriously considering canceling all my pledges in protest. I would certainly back you in a switch to a bulk model. As preparation for further shenanigans by patreon perhaps a second venue for support would also be useful. <a href="https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding</a> seems to have a good summary of alternatives

This is another example in a quickly growing list of evil companies that see their customers as dairy cows. They seem to be running on the "need more profit? Squeeze harder" business model. Instead if branching out and growing their brand ethically, they choose to simply reach a little farther into everyone's pocket. That leaves us with one option past complaining, stop giving them money. Unfortunately, that screws you in the process. I will continue to support you on any other medium of your choosing for that 10 video fee.

I like the idea of bulk video charging but I am afraid it will make it more difficult for you to get paid for you work

Do you think diluting the fees with Bulk Patreon as described above would be viable, or do you think it would be better if i just used an alternative?

NurdRage

from what i know, a lot of patrons have to also pay the VAT for their respective countries. This percentage won't change with bulk patreon though.

NurdRage

Yeah has anyone confirmed that when like me I do a $1 per vid that they charge $0.26 per vid too, as usual patreon is utterly useless at explaining themselves and really need to sack those 3 year olds in charge of advertising and pr, as for me I'll stick with what ever way you choose, but I do like the sound of the bulk pay

Christopher

As stated above I will support you, the Bulk Patreon idea sounds interesting

I don't mind paying for your quality. There are a lot of free videos out that aren't worth the RAM they take up.

I think bulk could be an option. For now I wills top my donation as the "protest". See also eevblog video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDt_WXnEnw0" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDt_WXnEnw0</a>

I agree with almost everyone in that the new fees put a lot of pressure on the $1 subs. The obvious approach to mitigate this is to "bulk" pay and I like that you have already jumped on that idea. As you noted though, it does have problems. I'm not sure how well it works in the long term.

and I like the bulk option btw, I trust my patreons and for me that would be the sure option. but keep the per video too if possible for those that dont like bulk. I dont know if its possible to combine, otherwise you might need two patron accound, nurdrageBULK :)

Daniel Wiegert

I totally agree patreon is using this shit for their own good. I had around 15 1-2$ pledges but after realizing I was paying patreon atleat 5usd per month I cancelled half of them.. Is there any alternative to patreon? Its easy. I could setup a simple paypal monthly payment but still, its easier to have a good overview here..

Daniel Wiegert

Hey I just want to say that it’s just 35 cents. I realize that in retrospect it is a high premium, but at the same time, that’s just the spare change from your pocket. I do favor the bulk video option though in lieu of not having to move platforms. I like having all of my videos i watch in one place.

I haven't tried it yet but liberapay is suggested by another creator: <a href="https://liberapay.com/about/faq" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://liberapay.com/about/faq</a>

The thing about unions and other groups is that you need leverage. We need a viable alternative that we could go with if our demands aren't met. If we still have to use patreon then we're stuck. I need to find some leverage first, then i can assemble a group to use it.

NurdRage

Ditto support from me no matter what (actually have been meaning to increase) but agreed the egregious fee chaps my ass

Is forming some sort of union with our producers to pressure Patreon an option? It is certainly much more complicated than working around the $0.35 fee.

Keith

I will still support no matter what.

Bryan Bennica

The only other option would be to switch to per-month and hope $1 patrons will up their pledge a bit, I suppose, but that has its own drawbacks (and as Mark Rose said above there are other ways for patrons to effectively do that)...

Jrandom Bob

well the cool thing about bulking the pledges is that it dilutes patreon's cut. So rather than 37.9% total on the $1 pledges, they can now only take 6.4% on the $10 pledges. Nonetheless a patreon alternative would be awesome if i can find a good one.

NurdRage

a few dozen. not a lot in total, but that's just today. I don't know how many more will leave once they realize just how high the cost is.

NurdRage

Batching up the charges is the best thing for the viewers, but perhaps not the best thing for you (due to the $10/video thing pushing people away, despite the fact that that may only hit once or twice a month, if that). However, my true feelings are something along the lines of "screw Patreon, they know their supporters largely show their support in $1 increments, and a 35% increase is usurious", and without creators like you moving to the competition, they're never going to feel it.

Jack92783

I'm giving $3 now. Probably going to lower, but not stop, my support. Also going to drop some creators that now have sponsorships and I don't enjoy as much. I'd like to find a replacement for Patreon. I feel their take is greater than the fees they're claiming.

JuggerNot7367

I'd also be happy with batching up the charges. Whatever works for you.

I like the idea of bulk. About how many $1 supporters have left?

Brian Nietfeld

Bulk Patreon sounds great! Depending on how many videos you end up doing in a month with the new projects list, I wouldn't even mind a monthly-bulk that's just for however many you did. On the whole, I vote stick with Patreon for the stability and avoidance-of-churn, and rejigger your pricing to something sensible. This is what I expect most creators will do: just change their reward levels to encourage larger but less frequent support levels.

jason black

35% is a big deal because it adds up on every $1. So if you donate $100 over the course of a year in $1 units, now it's $135. $35 is a lot of money... $35 that should be in your pocket or my pocket. But if it goes to patreon's pocket then that leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. But... if you donated $100 as a $100 bulk donation, then it's $100.35, which is far more palatable.

NurdRage

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out. Yes, 35% is a big increase, but we're talking about 35 cents here. There is literally nothing you can buy for 35 cents. I like Patreon, and I don't mind the increase, but I'm here because I support you. If you choose to move elswhere, I'll probably follow you.

Kris Pockell