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[Premium Access + Uncut] Links of the Day!
Added 2024-04-18 15:03:18 +0000 UTCYoung Justice 3x20
Reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8eZ6oAC_Vw
Uncut: https://thenormies.com/young-justice-premium/
Buffy the Vampire Slayer 6x13
Reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEL-WErWgv8
Uncut: https://thenormies.com/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-premium/
Angel 3x12
Uncut: https://thenormies.com/angel-uncut-only/
Comments
let's be honest there is some bad writing and plot armor
Joseph Irizarry
2024-04-25 20:24:14 +0000 UTCGuys! SPIKE HAS NO CONSCIENCE! His soul is nonexistent.
Chris Giles
2024-04-21 13:46:33 +0000 UTCI agree. Dru and Spike are on some mushy end of the human-demon hybrid spectrum, at least explaining their capacity for emotional connection if not defining it outright. It would be interesting if the lore examined ensouled humans who are evil, like Warren for example. Psychiatrists might call them sociopaths with psychotic features (lacking empathy and seeking pleasure by harming others).
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 21:13:41 +0000 UTC"Oh, we can love quite well. ...If not wisely." -Drusilla
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 21:07:11 +0000 UTCOverall, the group is simultaneously sympathetic toward Buffy and holding her accountable for her actions. Her depression symptoms are starting to hurt those around her emotionally and physically (like Dawn and Spike). They didn't give Spike a free pass for his psychological abuse or manipulative behavior here, either. And they don't cheer on the Scoobies when they kick Spike around. I get the frustration with romanticizing Spike, but the Normies also questioned whether a relationship is even possible for Spuffy. All sounds pretty reasonable at this point, IMHO.
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 21:04:08 +0000 UTCA couple people pointed out examples to Spidey, and he agreed with them. I get that these are hot button issues, but the group is watching tons of media at once, not binging one show. They often have to review things in their discussions and adjust accordingly.
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 20:41:12 +0000 UTCMulti-dimensional villains are so much more interesting anyway.
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 20:36:57 +0000 UTC100% agree on all of it. I'm a big Spike fan. I loved Spuffy first time through, still love them, but have a whole different perspective on their toxic relationship, being much older now obviously.
Carson Cardarella
2024-04-20 04:38:05 +0000 UTCAgreed. Buffy was actively su*cidal not that long ago. She's in a lot of pain, and her drive and interest in life won't return overnight. Especially without therapy and an SSRI. She's ashamed of herself for feeling like a failure first thing in the morning. Spike is a way to numb that temporarily, but she feels guilt for using him. It's great that she opened up to Tara. Buffy is still extremely vulnerable, and Rana is right about Spike's psychological abuse that could isolate her further. And, we saw Buffy physically abuse Spike here. Soulless, semi-reformed(?) torturer/murderer that he may be, he doesn't deserve to be treated like a punching bag for Buffy's self-loathing.
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 04:20:23 +0000 UTCJust because they didn't connect the word r*pe with what they were doing doesn't make them less evil for doing it. Even if they're on a spectrum of evil with Warren at a further end, they're still firmly in the despicable zone. The Trio aren't sympathetic characters to me at all, but they are interesting as non-demon villains.
Esther Boogie
2024-04-20 04:09:26 +0000 UTCCan we all just agree that the normies should NEVER do a live stream marathon again. Especially if they are drinking. This last episode of Angel was almost unwatchable because they wouldn't shut up, lol.
Bastion33
2024-04-19 20:33:59 +0000 UTCConfirmed Faith is better at hiding bodies than Spike as well, took them longer to find that one after she hid it in the river.
Kongolor
2024-04-19 15:46:11 +0000 UTCNotice the conversation between Buffy and Spike in the alleyway parallels the 1 Buffy had with Faith back in S3.
R3v1v4L
2024-04-19 15:15:11 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown Young Justice; so, just to clarify, Metron, Darkseid and the other New Gods aren’t actual gods, they’re just super advanced aliens. Because they’re so advanced in comparison to other species, they see themselves as gods, hence “New Gods”. Metron himself is so vain and big headed that he couldn’t fathom the idea of a half-Kryptonian throwing his scrawny ass out of his chair with ease 💀💀
Michael Pamon
2024-04-19 15:01:51 +0000 UTCAlso if you choose to focus on the semantics between “attraction” and “relation” and not the racist comment then you’re willfully ignoring the truth.
CWall
2024-04-19 14:12:52 +0000 UTCThis is gonna be a long comment so apologies. So the whole "give the nerds a chance" thing, I dunno if that's coming off my comment from episode 4 or 5, someone did ask if they could "tag" it to be talked about in the sunday rundown thing or whatever, I didn't really mind either way so didn't reply. I don't watch those so I don't know if it did or not. I'd wager a lot of people have been saying similar things but just to be clear, from my pov, I definitely am not saying "give these attempted rapists a chance" or "these guys are great villains as a genuine foe for Buffy" to me the give them a chance thing is like, "the writers have made these little punks who have no reason to mess with Buffy decide to mess with Buffy. You are supposed to find them slightly amusing initially (although mileage may vary on that) and then increasingly annoying and then truly disgusting and the writers are kinda making that transition part of the storyline". Obviously I didn't write that whole thing in the initial comment cause it's kinda spoilery with how they eventually escalate, I just said the first part about them being jokey villains because that's what they were in that episode they first appeared in. Suraj seems to be picking up on it the most, although I dunno if incel is quite the exact right word/term because well, Warren obviously did have a girlfriend for real, for example. He's a misogynist and controlling and weird and then in this episode escalates into out and out sexual assault (one could say that making a robot that seems able to learn and grow but can't meaningfully consent is sorta that, thorny issue there). To me it's more like entitlement/boredom, etc, men who are still children really who think just because they're smart the world owes them something etc. I think it works because they are a mundane threat ultimately compared to like, destroying the world and the real plot this season is the stuff the scooby gang are going through. Now whether that aspect of it being about the Scooby gangs personal stuff "works", is obviously subjective, I think it largely does but is something I'm not as interested in myself, I much prefer the seasons that are more about supernatural shit, sometimes as a metaphor for stuff but also sometimes not. You got more cool demon designs in the other seasons for example (something I appreciated about Angel as a comparison back in the day when they were airing simultaneously, that show being about the shades of grey means demons can just show up a lot more without the episode being solely about killing them). Also just not as a big a fan of Buffy/Spike as some people, the actors have great chemistry but it sometimes feels like it takes over the entire show for huge chunks of this season, Buffy/Angel could sometimes get overbearing and soap opera-y but even when Angel turned bad and they could have justified making the show all about that they still found time to do episodes like the ghost one or the hospital demon one in season 2, they just worked evil angel into that plot. Very subjective as well of course cause they do that with Spike/Buffy here too, just works less well for me.
Kongolor
2024-04-19 14:11:19 +0000 UTCAttraction and relation in this context go hand in hand because the main issue of his comment is that Gunn is a modern black man in America and to say that a white woman “relates” or is “attracted” to his “slave energy” is extremely racist and hurtful to people.
CWall
2024-04-19 14:10:12 +0000 UTCCan relate to someone = not the same as "attracted" to someone
Chelsea
2024-04-19 13:48:37 +0000 UTC#SUNDAYRUNDOWN For a little information on Metron his the greatest mind of New Genesis, a New God explorer who seeks scientific knowledge in the further corners of the universe with the aid of the universal-time traveling vehicle the Mobius Chair his pretty much the god of knowledge/Space &Time in dc And yes he could of killed everyone if he wanted but he’s actually on the weaker side physically in comparison to other new gods like Orion or darkside Also To answer surjas questions those celestial look alike things are weirdly enough are frozen statues of dead gods, cosmic beings, and foolish entities that failed to breach the wall and became part of it. The Source Wall is a solid barrier surrounding the Multiverse, beyond which lies the Source the origin of the multiverse
Jay.NAS
2024-04-19 13:36:34 +0000 UTCYou say "what's changed since last season" but you don't even have to look that far back, like, 2 episodes ago when he thought the chip was broken, he tried to eat a woman and if it had actually been broken then he'd have killed her.
Kongolor
2024-04-19 13:14:20 +0000 UTCI said the moment “Dead Man’s Party” happened that Buffy would only learn that her friends are judgmental and unreliable. This would only lead to her bottling up her feelings because she couldn’t rely on her friends’ support. It’s why she tells no one about Angel’s return and treats her time with him as an escape from the world. They also treat her with the same judgment in “When She Was Bad.” It’s no wonder she hasn’t relied on Willow and Xander at all and needed an outside perspective. Cordelia was the only one who tried to understand what she was going through back in “Dead Man’s Party,” even though she sucked at it and even willing to talk about Buffy’s problem in “When She Was Bad,” even though she also didn’t handle that delicately. Her friends just kind of berated her and never tried to understand.
Ren Davis
2024-04-19 12:55:49 +0000 UTCI just want to say that the trio are supposed to be unlikable. I don’t think that people are saying “give them a chance” as far as finding them likable. It’s like if Andrew Tate was popular in the early 2000s and some of his fans just happened to be aspiring supervillains. They are children living out a power fantasy to take what they want with no consequences. Now they face real consequences and we see that Warren is unfazed, while Jonathan and Andrew show some remorse. They are all still evil though.
Ren Davis
2024-04-19 04:30:31 +0000 UTCDo not make me let you down.
Ren Davis
2024-04-19 04:19:24 +0000 UTCI concur Rana. The Angel, Cordelia, Connor family was a cute moment at the end. If you had told me that Angel and Cordelia would be this close back in Buffy Season 1, I would have called you crazy and laughed straight in your face. Now we’re the crazy ones!
Ren Davis
2024-04-19 04:17:25 +0000 UTCTara’s story was entwined with Willow, so their break unfortunately removes Tara from the story. This episode was good Willowless Tara content. It was a really good idea to have Buffy rely on Tara to deal with her problems. I like mixing up character dynamics where we see people interact who don’t usually converse. Tara was a very supportive friend and wasn’t judgmental with Buffy at all. Just processed what she heard and tried to help her friend deal with it. Tara is a real one.
Ren Davis
2024-04-19 04:15:50 +0000 UTC#Sundayrundown Angel. I think the writers wanted kate from earlier seasons in the role that Justine is (redhead helping Holtz) so i just imagine her as kate. especially since she lost her father and needs that father figure in her life.
Christopher simeon
2024-04-19 00:46:49 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown Register the metahumans eh? *Stares in Magneto*
Rahsaan
2024-04-19 00:30:34 +0000 UTCJeez
Calvin Allen
2024-04-18 23:43:23 +0000 UTCSecond favorite overall villain to me but i agree with the rest of your points
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:29:28 +0000 UTCRhe scorpion and the frog.
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:27:09 +0000 UTCOne more thing about The Trio. I think they work much better on a rewatch than on an initial watch. I originally wasn't a fan of them when I first watched the season and it wasn't until years had passed and I rewatched the season last year. Now they're my favorite villains of the show and the smartest thing the show has ever done.
David Butt
2024-04-18 23:22:16 +0000 UTCThey (trio) want to rule sunnydale like every other buffy villain. Thats the end goal: kings of sunnydale
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:21:06 +0000 UTCThis. But also to just release and enjoy the show lol the trio were so hilarious at their antics up to this point being so inept and they couldn't see it. NOW they can give them full on hate
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:18:55 +0000 UTCYes I can’t agree with this statement more. People keep saying that Spike is just evil and soulless and while that’s definitely what the show and Joss Whedon want the audience to think the fact of the matter is James Marsters is just too charming and is able to imbue such complicated emotion in Spike that it doesn’t come across that way to me. In fact most of the times the series tries to show us that Spike really is just evil and soulless, it doesn’t work for me and it usually just feels really out of character. I can just feel the writer’s puppet strings desperately trying to make him unlikable and failing because of how likable James is in the role. Sometimes when a character is written they’re supposed to be one thing but then during the course of the story or through other factors like acting that change the character past what was intended and I think this is the case with Spike. It's just that Joss never accepted the character had changed past his intent and kept trying to make him completely evil and soulless but it only occasionally works
David Butt
2024-04-18 23:16:18 +0000 UTCThank you for being honest.
CWall
2024-04-18 23:15:45 +0000 UTCHe said it in the discussion portion of the twitch stream. We all heard it cause the chat talked about him apologizing to Spidey.
CWall
2024-04-18 23:14:54 +0000 UTCIt was an off color joke but he said it. Something along the lines of "she can relate with gunn cause she was a slave/oppressed in lorne's dimension".
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:10:52 +0000 UTCAt least for me this is what i meant when i said give the trio a chance: until this episode they weren't supposed to be seen as a real threat, just a comical nuisance at best but you guys were too busy hating on them to become engrossed in the story. Now we see that they are capable real evil. Well at least warren is. Andrew and Johnathan at least have remorse and empathy for what they did. They just wanted to live their supervillain fantasies not ever considering that this is the real world where people actually die not a cartoon or comic where its just characters or where they can come back to life. The real world just hit them hard.
rickie woodson
2024-04-18 23:07:59 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown Hey guys, great reaction and discussion following that YJ episode. This episode is always one of my favorites not only because of the heavy subject matters discussed, of which there are PLENTY, but some of the wider implications for the setting. 'The Source Wall' is something that I never thought YJ would touch, so it was a surprise to see the team fly past it without giving it a second thought. If you didn't know, The Source Wall is the literal wall surrounding all of the DC universes. You can do timeline/dimensional stuff, but it'll always be inside the Source Wall. It's literally the source material, keeping the DC universe separate from other source materials. In some comics, it's Darkseid's end goal to go past the Source Wall and conquer other universes. In the comics, you literally can't even touch the Source Wall without becoming a part of it, forever trapping you. So if you look closely you'd see alternate versions of Darkseid, Luthor, Superman, and other characters who tried to power through it for good reasons for bad. It's an interesting element of the DC Universe and I'm interested in seeing if the creators would do something cool with it in the future.
Shihi
2024-04-18 22:47:55 +0000 UTCYou all must be tripping cos the way they are talking about Buffy now is how most Spuffys were spamming the message boards back in the day. Its only with hindsight people now have an objective eye. Lets wait and see how they all feel about it by season end.
Tony O
2024-04-18 22:27:34 +0000 UTCI hate them. their humour was dead from the outset, the technologies they have access to are ludicrous even for Buffy and their motivations just don't make sense, apart from with Warren here.
Tony O
2024-04-18 22:19:14 +0000 UTCSuraj didn't say anything about Fred being attracted to Gunn at all, actually. He ships Fred and Wes.
Chelsea
2024-04-18 22:08:31 +0000 UTCHe said that Fred (white woman) was only attracted to Gunn (black man) because of: “ANCESTRAL SLAVE ENERGY”. Because Fred was a slave in another dimension for 5 years and because Gunn is black.
CWall
2024-04-18 21:36:20 +0000 UTCWhat? What were his views?
Calvin Allen
2024-04-18 20:58:34 +0000 UTCThey definitely have blinders on for Spike, which I don't understand considering how hard they came down on Angel for being a vampire/evil. They're trying to give these 2 couples therapy. Wild
Calvin Allen
2024-04-18 20:54:32 +0000 UTCAngel 3x12 is the episode that Suraj had some interesting views on interracial relationships and attracting energies between certain characters during the twitch stream….
CWall
2024-04-18 20:41:06 +0000 UTC#SUNDAYRUNDOWN The couch’s perception of Spike clearly shifted at the end of last season/beginning of this season. When he mourned Buffy’s death it showed his affection for her was genuine, and when he was still there despite Buffy being gone and not coming back as far as he knew, it seemingly cemented that his desire for Buffy is not the sole reason he was there. I think that’s why everyone on the couch are reacting to Spike and his relationship with Buffy in the ways that they are. Spike has the most tangible human side out of any other soulless vampire we’ve seen on either show. We’ve seen Spike empathetic and affectionate. We’ve also seen him be sadistic, manipulative, and violent. Think of it like this, Spike is a demon, but he still carries the remnants of William the man. The William side of Spike cares for Buffy, and wishes to be with her and be loved by her, the demon side twists his emotions and desires, causing him to be willing to do anything to get what he wants. To me, the fact that Spike stayed with Dawn after Buffy died, shows how much his humanity affects him, even without his soul. He’s heartbroken over her death, and he feels guilty for not saving Dawn before she was cut, because then Buffy wouldn’t have had to jump. He’s there because he feels guilty, not because he’s hoping to win Buffy’s favor, she’s dead and he doesn’t know they’re going to resurrect her. But, they do. And Buffy is different, she’s disconnected, and depressed. And confides in Spike that she was in heaven, and now views it as she’s in hell. Spike has always been very perceptive, he sees Buffy at her lowest, most vulnerable, and the moment she finally gives in, he takes advantage. And since then, he’s been capitalizing on her pain, because he knows that if Buffy gets better, she’ll leave. We’ve gotten to see Spike’s humanity many times now, but he is still a soulless demon. William is dead, but there are still remnants of him, remnants that cause Spike to seem redeemable. However, the hard truth is, soulless vampires are incapable of redemption. The soul is what makes it possible for Angel, the chip can’t compare.
Cassidy
2024-04-18 20:11:28 +0000 UTC🎯
Zee
2024-04-18 20:08:29 +0000 UTC#Sundayrundown (YJ) So Troia is actually Wonder Woman's sister and is more commonly known as Donna Troy. She was actually supposed to be in season 1 and Her sister Wonder Woman was going to be her mentor but they couldn't add her for legal reasons until later on in the show but within the story of YJ, it's said that she Joined And Left the team during the 5 year time skip. Also In Atlantis, they're way more progressive in terms of things like Polyamory and sexuality but unfortunately their society isn't perfect since there are some "pure" Atlanteans (aka ones that look indistinguishable from regular humans like Aquaman) that hate other Atlanteans that look more like fish people like La'gaan. There's actually some young Justice comics that explored this and that's where we get introduced to Kaldur's Boyfriend.
Torrin
2024-04-18 19:59:06 +0000 UTCSo Suraj you are kinda right when it comes to the golden statues you saw in this YJ episode. Those are the “Old Gods” and yes the Celestials are Marvel’s version of them. Cause Jack Kirby created the Old Gods when we worked at DC. And then created the Celestials when he went over to Marvel. From what I hear he wanted to do some storylines with them at DC but wasn’t allowed. So he created the Celestials when he went to Marvel so he could do the storylines there. So yes Marvel did technically “steal” the idea from DC. In the sense you can plagiarism yourself.
Daniel Sessions
2024-04-18 19:51:13 +0000 UTC#sundayrundown. (in regards to spike) I think it's important to remember spike is a character whedon didn't originally want around in the long run. James masters has spoken of an incident early on, where joss got aggressive with him, because he was so mad at spike's popularity and wanted to kill him off But every time he appeared the audience loved it so much that, in the end, he became a full time cast member, But . .. . . .. . there in lies the issue. Spike is still soulless and a "bad boy" (which is part of his charm) but he can't be too much of a bad guy because then it wouldn't make sense for Buffy not to take him out and it definitely wouldn't make sense for her to date him but also if he's too boring, that makes for bad TV. So the writers constantly toe'd the line with his character and that definitely causes the audience to then feel very conflicted about him and his relationship with Buffy because it's constantly so up and down.
ray s
2024-04-18 19:35:20 +0000 UTCI also love Tara and Buffy's friendship. I've really noticed that as time has gone on there have been a lot less scenes of Buffy and Willow just talking to and confiding in each other like friends. It's also the first time any 'love interest' character has really developed relationships with the other leads. Tara has very sweet interactions with Buffy here, but the show has also established how close she is to Dawn. So she doesn't feel like someone that is just important to Willow, you know?
cosmotron
2024-04-18 19:33:33 +0000 UTCWell perhaps a bit but I still said my opinions about it.
Brandon Gibbs
2024-04-18 19:25:39 +0000 UTCIdk if you’re doing this on purpose, but you’re kinda just giving a summary of the episode
Zee
2024-04-18 19:23:16 +0000 UTC@Mary smith I love your thoughts comparing Spike and Angel in terms of soul! I recently re-watched the end of season 2; there was a moment that I had never really registered before, and I'm curious what people may think: when Spike and Drusilla brought The Judge back to life, he was disgusted by (something to the effect of) their "stink of humanity." I understood that as The Judge picking up on whatever part within Spike and Drusilla was still "human"--i.e. their vibes of (warped) love/affection/care. That underscores (for me) that Spike always had the *capacity* to care/love, so he hasn't really changed for the "good" but rather re-focused whatever "humanity" was left in him, onto Buffy. Now, I agree that having a soul is sort of equivalent to having a moral conscience/moral compass/moral consciousness, and (Buffy removed) I think neither Spike nor Drusilla do. But then, how can there be "humanity" in someone who has no moral conscience/soul? I think I'm thinking too much now....
Ashleep
2024-04-18 19:09:42 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown (YJ) - Connor/Superboy & Jefferson have been on of my favorite duos this season. They’ve been put into some of the weirdest situations this season which now includes Superboy having to THROW A GOD OUT OF HIS CHAIR like it was nothing 😂. I also appreciate how this show that’s about these super powered beings can bring things back into reality and deal with real world issues like death, poverty, domestic violence, child abuse etc. Side note: I don’t know where you guys are at with the end S3, but just to let you know, going into S4 there’s 5 different 4 episode arcs that wrap up in a 6th one. I doubt that’ll change your recording process but just wanted to let you know a bit ahead of time
Zee
2024-04-18 19:07:22 +0000 UTCIn this YJ episode there were about 4 issues going on! 1: Going to Metron to save Vic from his condition, though he just wanted to study him while he was dying. But they got his chair anyway and cured him and now they know Granny is behind this thing. 2: Kaldur was taking the new water girl to her new home of Atlantis and yes she'll be known as Dolphin. Also she knew that Kaldur had just lied to the king about the Outsiders taking down Ivo and she told him that bad people don't feel bad when they lie and assured him that he's still a good guy cause he did feel bad, unlike Batman I know that. Also for a while it seemed that he was gonna develop feelings for her but then that twist happened showing that he's already in a gaybo relationship....What a shame! 3: M'gann was talking with Harper about her and her brother's abuse from their pops and how Harper was too scared to even talk about it, but M'gann managed to get her to do that and now I know she'll help them somehow. 4: Violet went to Gabrielle's hometown to talk with the mother about what happened to her and she was poorly devastated but managed to hang in there and say thank for the closure she needed. Lastly at the end it looked like Tara might be having a change of heart about what she's doing after all.
Brandon Gibbs
2024-04-18 18:46:26 +0000 UTCAgreed.
Carson Cardarella
2024-04-18 18:35:07 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown I don't think Buffy is torn to pieces because of the hookups with Spike. Spike is a side effect to what she's feeling, not the cause. Buffy is still severely depressed and traumatized from being ripped out of heaven. She was at peace, and abruptly thrown back into this cruel world. A world without her Mom, without hope, without purpose. The crying at the end to Tara isn't her feeling shame for boinking Spike, as much as it is her experiencing shame for feeling so depressed and helpless since coming back from heaven. She hasn't really talked about that with anyone 😔
Carson Cardarella
2024-04-18 18:32:42 +0000 UTCThey know what Spike has done, they just don’t care.
CWall
2024-04-18 18:31:37 +0000 UTC#SUNDAYRUNDOWN
Cassidy
2024-04-18 18:27:53 +0000 UTCCrashing out on Spuffy has been a long running theme for the normies. The mental gymnastics and goal posts moved for Spike even against Buffy are amazing to witness.
CWall
2024-04-18 18:27:33 +0000 UTCI hope that's what was meant because Marketa clearly said that somebody commented that they should give "Warren" a chance. Which is such a dumb thing to say even if it was a joke.
Bastion33
2024-04-18 18:26:41 +0000 UTCI can pin the fact that they don't write down or pay attention to the show as much as they should because they react to so many shows. I feel like they need to write down some stuff, because they clearly can't remember most of the past plots lol.
Bastion33
2024-04-18 18:23:47 +0000 UTCThe Spike magic stick between his legs must be strong because I don’t get it either. Buffy is a mess. 🤷🏽♀️
Alison
2024-04-18 18:10:00 +0000 UTCI'm probably just being over protective of buffy.. I'm just not relating to their read on the spuffy relationship at all. Like I don't know how anyone who loves the character of buffy could actually think that spike is the right man for her. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the spuffy story line... but I've never thought that buffy could be happy with spike
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 18:05:31 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown I believe the "give em a chance" sentiment, regarding the nerd trio 🤓 is more about giving them a chance as the villains of the season, not their chance of being forgiven. That ship has sailed away after what they did to Katrina this episode. I believe people were suggesting to give them a chance as the big bad of the season.
Carson Cardarella
2024-04-18 18:02:46 +0000 UTCI just think buffy and spike sure being equally toxic to each other, but spike seems be getting a lot of sympathy and buffy is being cast the villian. Just feels like they want buffy to treat spike better, because he's been 'good lately'.. but spike who is being a total piece of shit too doesn't seem to be getting held accountable because he loves her?
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 17:58:15 +0000 UTCWhat? Buffy is taking advantage of Spike. Someone with depression doesn't lose their agency. They are still responsible for their own actions. Spike is in love with Buffy. Buffy knows this fact and is using him. Buffy is not chemically depressed she is just sad. Even if she was chronically depressed why would you have sympathy for one type of neurological chemical imbalance and not another like love? Love is just oxytocin, dopamine and norepinephrine imbalance. Your comment is not logically or morally consistent. You are giving one person every single justification and rationalization while giving the other party none. It is a cognitive dissonance.
Shawn Brink
2024-04-18 17:48:31 +0000 UTCCould someone please remind spidey that in the last couple episodes we've seen spike creeping on buffy at her work place, hiding behind a tree in her front yard, sneaking up behind her while she's hanging with her friends at the bronze and has continued to push to get his way when she's said no or asked him to leave her alone.. can we please stop acting like spike is passive here, just waiting around in his crypt for buffy to come use him
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 17:46:50 +0000 UTC#sundayrundown Many comments focusing on spuffy but I want to talk about why Souls are important. In the buffyverse Souls do not equal being good. This trio are all human they all have souls but they are doing horrible evil things. Angel in season 2 abandoned his friends despite having a soul. The soul allows you to self reflect and feel remorse for actions taken. Now if you feel your actions are justified then having a soul doesn't change that. It is when you know you did something that is wrong and feel the guilt. That is the difference about soul vs soullessness. Spike knew buffy did wrong but did not understand why that effected her so badly. He doesn't feel guilt like a souled person would.
Christopher simeon
2024-04-18 17:39:15 +0000 UTCI think they all have sympathy for Buffy, just look at how they reacted to the last scene and her breakdown. I think this season more than any other is highlighting one of the things I love about buffy as a hero...she's human and flawed and can suffer depression and do super shitty things. Its brave writing for a hero and i love it. I think the normies are just not glossing over that, I don't think they are dumping on her. To me this episode is her rock bottom, and I'm excited for her growth.
mary smith
2024-04-18 17:20:50 +0000 UTCAnd like at the end when she broke down to Tara, they seemed to think it was all because she was ashamed of what she was doing with spike.. like as if, if she'd just accept it and tell people she'd feel better.. there seems to be no understanding on the couch of why buffy doesn't want to be with spike. Like why she would have a problem being with a soulless demon
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 17:13:10 +0000 UTCFascinating take on Spike. I suppose on the surface you can look at it as a damaged person who did bad things and is trying to be better, so let’s have grace and allow them to have that chance to be better and treat them as such. I feel like that’s the sentiment ruling the opinions here. I can’t look past the fact that Spike indeed has no soul. He’s adapted many behaviors because he was forced to. And sure, we’ve seen demons capable of affection in their own way, but Spike’s love for Buffy is dominated by lust and power and control. Their whole relationship this season is extremely unhealthy. Spike is only capable of so much genuine emotion due to the fact that he has no soul. As for Buffy, she’s feeling way more detached from humanity than ever, so of course she’d seek solace with someone who’s just as detached from humanity. The two are hardly well matched for each other though. Buffy is a human with a soul. Spike is a vampire with no soul. I’ll be interested to see how the conversation on the couch evolves as the story continues.
bibbledeegak
2024-04-18 17:10:48 +0000 UTCRana honestly seems to be the only one that has any sympathy for buffy. Thank God for her, cause otherwise I'd feel like I'm losing my mind. Everyone else just seems to be dumping on her, like 'she's made her choice's' and how she's being a shit parent to dawn and being terrible to spike. Like we've watched this character for 5 seasons be just about as good and moral and self sacrificing as a person can be and now she's going though something really terrible and is acting very out of character and it just feels like they're not getting the severity of her depression. I'm not saying all her behaviour should be excused because of her depression.. but a little bit more understanding would be nice.
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 17:09:56 +0000 UTCI think you must of missed some of the discussion.? They spoke quite a bit about Buffy's shame and depression and how glad they are that she has tara she can speak to. How bad they feel for her and how she needs therapy.
mary smith
2024-04-18 16:59:31 +0000 UTCI'm really struggling to understand everyone's point of view on the buffy/spike relationship. What has changed since last season when spike chained buffy up and threatened to kill her if she didn't admit she liked him? He baby sits a couple times and suddenly everything is forgivin? Spike is in a fucked situation. He hasn't lost his blood lust, he just can't act on it. He doesn't do things out of the goodness of his heart or out of some desire for redemption.. he does it because he loves/ is obsessed with buffy. I don't understand why no one seems to understand the difference between a chip and a soul. He's just as toxic as buffy in this. Why does anyone think that buffy loves spike?! What have we seen from her that would make anyone think that she loves him? Angry, depressed sex, that she hates herself for. She's very clearly using him and feels terrible about it, but I don't know why they think she loves him and is just in denial about it? I feel like my brain is going to explode with this reaction. There is absolutely no sympathy for Buffys depression, it's all for poor spike. (Who is 100% taking advantage of Buffys depression) I just can't.
Greta mudie
2024-04-18 16:51:26 +0000 UTCHis time with angelus was pleasant. He was having a blast and he has no remorse for it. The cookies are dicks to him because they know what he is. He literally tried to eat a girl just a few episodes ago. They know regardless of how he feels about Buffy, and the good things he done because of it. He's still a demon.
King Medjai
2024-04-18 16:48:34 +0000 UTCWe've literally beat this horse to death lol. They are going to feel the way feel about it I guess. I personally find it crazy that Reily got so much hate for being a insecure "cheater"(suckjobs). But Spike is a remorsless Demon who would kill again in a beat. But since he has done some good because he loves buffy it's, "oh buffy stop acting mean". Can anyone explain the logic? I'm confused. No hate, I just want to understand. Maybe it's something I'm not seeing.
King Medjai
2024-04-18 16:42:42 +0000 UTCI wouldn't call Whedon an incel, lol. I'd call him an asshole. He was considered to be mentally aggressive towards some of his actors both, men and women. He never had any allegations of SA. I would consider it an abuse of power.
Bastion33
2024-04-18 16:24:36 +0000 UTCRemember Sigfried and Roy? Big popular show, famous for their tiger? That tiger was a great showman! People loved the tiger! Sigfried and Roy loved the tiger! Then one day the tiger bit one of their heads. Because it's a tiger. Spike is the tiger.
Smash Bran'Discootch
2024-04-18 15:58:11 +0000 UTCNo need to apologize! It looks like other people who are only part of the early access have access to this video as well foe some reason. They haven't posted their early access yet but I'm sure they'll get it ironed out soon! I apologize if my initial comment came off as rude!
Smash Bran'Discootch
2024-04-18 15:54:12 +0000 UTCWelp, this [in my opinion] is Buffy's rock-bottom episode. Willow's episode was "Wrecked", following the trippy magic sessions with Rack and the car accident with Dawn... This episode definitely had a lot of *important* things happen. Buffy is totally disgusted with herself and just plain miserable. In the alley, when she's punching Spike, it was very reflective of "Who Are You?" [the body swap episode] when Faith was beating on herself in Buffy's body; she just HATED herself. I think her depression and self-loathing stem far deeper than just Spike. Sure, that's one layer, but on top of that, she's still traumatised from being ripped out of heaven; she was thrown into a parental role she feels inadequate for, and she has to continue with her Slayer responsibilities with the weight of the world on her shoulders, she hasn't been able to talk to her friends without ridicule since Season 2, the amount of pressure this 21-22-year-old is feeling, oof...Honestly, it's no wonder she's cracking. I know this season is very...controversial amongst the fanbase, but I love it. Sure, some of the themes are heavy-handed, but the writers were trying to say something. They took a challenging subject [like depression, addiction, verbal/physical abuse, relationship toxicity, etc.] that hadn't been really tackled head-on in a teen show. The depiction of depression in other teen shows of this era can come off, well, wicked corny or like a PSA rather than a character study. I appreciate the deep dive in themes. The messiness of grey area choices is followed by their often dark and painful consequences. Of all the people Buffy could confess to about the affair, Tara was 100% the right person. She remained unjudgemental, which is exactly what Buffy needed. Buffy needs empathy rather than a lecture and finger-wagging. She is perfectly aware of how much her dark and twisted downward spiral is ruining her. Unfortunately, I don't think Xander and Willow would give her that compassion. Side Note: Of all the friendships this show offers, Buffy and Tara is my favourite. Their moments are few and far between, but when they do happen, it's great. For so long, Buffy needed an ear. You can make the argument that Giles was that ear for a long time, but sometimes, he couldn't let go of his own judgements. I believe that pretty much since the drama with Angel, Buffy has really begun bottling things up and stopped communicating with her friends because every time she does, she's met with judgement, lectures, and contempt. Well, I guess now we can only wait until the next episode to see how Buffy handles everything after her confession to Tara and her plummet to the bottom.
hannemanart
2024-04-18 15:50:41 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown: Spike doesn’t have a soul and is evil despite the chip. When he first hit Buffy and thought his chip stopped working, the first thing he did was try to kill a woman in an alley. I don’t blame the scoobies for not treating him well because Spike tried to kill them all just a few years(seasons) ago. Spike is obsessed with Buffy and wants to isolate her so he can have her all to himself. That’s usually the habit of an abusive bf. I’m not a Spike hater at all, he’s one of my favorites but if you were to apply these behaviors to real life you would probably think “wtf is this guy’s problem”. It’s like when you read a spicy booktok book and you enjoy it while reading it, but if someone was like that in real life it would be cringey and horrible.
Morgan Liffers
2024-04-18 15:47:47 +0000 UTCNo, I think your right for being confused. I'm a $2 tier but for some reason I have access to this post which I think cost $15. I think they messed up when they posted this.
ImperialOoze
2024-04-18 15:42:09 +0000 UTCI'm seeing this and I'm only part of the early access. I also don't see the post for early access. Some mistake might have happened. Hopefully the crew is on it soon.
Pinoyjonc316
2024-04-18 15:40:35 +0000 UTC#SUNDAYRUNDOWN They bring up a lot of good points, technically the chip on stops spike from being able to hurt humans by causing him pain so any changes are just him. It is weird that because he doesn’t have a soul the scoobies don’t see him as a person so treating him like trash is fine, despite the fact he’s been helping them for a while, and using him when convenient then tossing him aside when they don’t need him and just generally being dicks to him. Spike being a vampire is cool with stuff like being used and tossed aside if it’s for the people he cares about like Joyce Buffy or Dawn, he spent years as a spawn for angelus and his crew and I can’t imagine his time with them was entirely pleasant by human standards.
TrixieTurner
2024-04-18 15:36:25 +0000 UTCApologies, I apparently juust cannot read
SarahfemmeNicole
2024-04-18 15:34:44 +0000 UTCGreat conversation regarding spike and if he's changed. I agree that Spike has changed, but I'd be hesitant to say that makes him good, like Angel good. Angel has a soul, which I think of as a moral conscious. The ability to feel guilt and truly understand right and wrong. We know spike is complex, and has the ability to feel human emotions more than most vampires as the judge mentioned it way back in season two. But being able to feel doesn't make one good. I think spike cares about buffy and is trying as much as he is capable, but as an evil soulless demon, that's never going to be in a healthy selfless way. He wants buffy so buffy is his moral compass. If he can get buffy by doing good, he will. If he could get buffy by doing evil, I believe he happily would.
mary smith
2024-04-18 15:32:31 +0000 UTC6x10 will be the early access. This is the premium listing in which 6x13 is the correct one as 6x12 was last week's premium drop. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. If so, my bad 😅
Smash Bran'Discootch
2024-04-18 15:30:59 +0000 UTCSo yeah this is where the trio fully set into their roles as villains. Opinions on them are divided, but in my opinion they’re the best villains the series has ever done. It’s really well crafted how their prominence grows throughout the season. They start off as little more than a joke, just some kind of comic relief from the darkness and emotional turmoil of this season’s storyline about Buffy’s depression. Then they become a minor annoyance because they’re clearly not going away, but they’re not really doing anything all that interesting and they’re still not threatening, but then in this episode the shoe drops. First with their plan for mind controlling women, which is completely messed up, and then when Katrina calls them out for everything and puts the words to the situation, they’re becoming a bunch of rapists here, and then it all culminated with Warren killing Katrina to stop her from pressing rape charges against them. Now suddenly they’re actually villains and threats here, and they’re, minus the supernatural stuff, a pretty realistic depiction of incels, which ends up being very ironic given a lot of the allegations against Whedon.
David Butt
2024-04-18 15:24:27 +0000 UTCThe wrong Buffy is in today's listing. It should be 6x10
SarahfemmeNicole
2024-04-18 15:08:09 +0000 UTC
