The Royle Family: Season 3, Episode 6 The Christening

It don't matter how drunk one gets; you don't forget what job you do. Mary has the onset on dementia, for sure.

Right Said Brett

The scenes when they all have a sing along make me smile; so wholesome.

Daniel

I think she was just drunk, surely?

Matgo Styles

The bit where they’re all singing and dancing has always stuck with me since I first seen it. The specials that follow this episode have some really brilliant moments (Queen of Sheba especially)!

Lee

It was good I enjoyed it!

After Work Reactions

"It's just a funny scene of two parents obliviously playing a song about suicide to their baby." IF this is the intention then it's an in-joke for the writers' own amusement IMHO because the vast majority of the audience would themselves not be aware of the song's lyrics. I just feel it's a bit oblique for the *audience*. They're intelligent people and The Royle Family is a beautifully written show, but it isn't highbrow, and I don't feel they were quite that self-indulgent. I think it's easy, as a fan of a band or song, to assume that everyone else understands or is even aware of the nature of the song / band in the same way. It's possibly an in-joke, or one they've put in there for people who will pick up on it (yourself an example) but as a joke alongside all the others, I think it would fall fairly flat with most people.

Ash Jeffries

"Not being aware or even paying attention to song lyrics is quite a different matter and I think only one of these jokes truly paints Denise in a negative light." Whether or not it paints Denise in a negative light is debatable but also irrelevant. The point is that she didn't pay attention to the lyrics and is playing a song about suicide to a baby. That's a funny joke, regardless of the fact that Baby David is unable to comprehend the lyrics themselves, any more than Denise herself has. It's just a funny scene of two parents obliviously playing a song about suicide to their baby.

Right Said Brett

" For example, in last week's episode, Baby David tipped the contents of an entire ashtray on top of his head and Denise left him in that state and waited for Dave to get back from work, so he could take a photograph of Baby David coated in ash. There have been a ton of similar jokes relating to Denise's parenting skills." You see, for me, this example and the one re the Radiohead lyrics are as different as night and day. This tale that Denise relates and her complete obliviousness to how inappropriate it was to do such a thing is for me, blindingly obvious stuff. It stands out like a sore thumb as something extremely off. Not being aware or even paying attention to song lyrics is quite a different matter and I think only one of these jokes truly paints Denise in a negative light.

Ash Jeffries

"I don't think that you're giving Caroline Aherne and Craig Cash enough credit as razor sharp, observational comedy writers but yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that." I don't doubt their sharpness and intelligence at all. Aherne's IQ was 177 by all accounts. I only question her intent, personality and approach to this show in conjunction with this kind of a joke, which, to me, doesn't really make sense or fit. It isn't that she'd be incapable of writing such a joke, but just that it seems incongruous to The Royle Family. The intelligence of the characters is forever called into question: it isn't that. But the observations made are about the characters making very human, quotidian errors and the irony stems from slightly more basic things, because they're essentially, quite basic people (the characters, not the writers.) As you say, we have very different views on this scene so let's just leave it there! :-)

Ash Jeffries

"It's like when people unironically think that the song 'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life' from The Life of Brian is about having a positive attitude, whereas the entire joke is that the people singing that song in the movie are in an utterly hopeless situation and have been condemned to die a slow, agonising, drawn out death. There is no bright side to their cruel fate and yet they all idiotically whistle an inane, nonsense song about looking on the bright side of life." Now, for me, this is an unequivocal example of the song being very obviously ironic. But this example is also from a brand of comedy very far removed from Aherne's and Cash's approach to The Royle Family. Monty Python, for all its daftness and OTT bizarreness, was a very deliberately satirical and deceptively highbrow affair. They were university educated, upper class, and the humour was quite lofty; it wasn't about everyday grit and the banality of the human condition. I would imagine that anyone who has only ever *heard* that song would misinterpret it, but if you've seen the film, you can't ignore the absolute absurdity of a man being crucified whilst singing it and not spot the irony. It's very much all there in fifty foot high neon lettering! :-D

Ash Jeffries

I don't think that you're giving Caroline Aherne and Craig Cash enough credit as razor sharp, observational comedy writers but yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Right Said Brett

Fair enough - we'll have to agree to disagree on this one I think! Having seen Aherne in interview, and gauged her personality, and being very much aware of the general tone of this show, I just didn't and don't read it that way at all. I don't even think it would make sense as a joke in any case. Baby David is blissfully unaware of any lyrics to any song; the lyrics are superfluous and irrelevant to him as he won't understand them anyway. If Caroline did intend for it to be a jab at people who are deaf to the lyrics of the song, then I would disagree with her vehemently, as I don't feel it's an accurate criticism for reasons I've explained. That the song is about suicide is an amusing bit of parenthesis, but that's it for me. I strongly suspect it was for her (and indeed Craig too.)

Ash Jeffries

It's just obvious to me that that's literally the joke of the scene. Caroline Aherne didn't randomly choose a song about suicide. She purposefully chose that particular song to make a joke. It's not as though the series was ever shy of making jokes out of Denise's parenting skills. For example, in last week's episode, Baby David tipped the contents of an entire ashtray on top of his head and Denise left him in that state and waited for Dave to get back from work, so he could take a photograph of Baby David coated in ash. There have been a ton of similar jokes relating to Denise's parenting skills.

Right Said Brett

"The humour was always about making ordinary points about ordinary people, there was never really any cerebral commentary on any of the characters. " But that choice of song absolutely is an ordinary point about ordinary people. I've heard plenty of people in life say "I don't like Radiohead. They're too depressing but I like the one song which goes 'do doo, do doo, do doo do dooo dooooooo do'. That's a lovely song". I think Creep and Karma Police are better known than No Surprises but I don't completely disagree with your point. The thing is, they're talking about Radiohead being musically depressing, not lyrically. Unless you're a Radiohead fan you probably wouldn't pay any attention to the lyrics. And I suppose for me, even as a Radiohead fan, a mother choosing No Surprises to play to her baby is absolutely fine. It doesn't make her stupid - she likes the tune, end of. The lyrics *are* bleak, but that's a separate matter, and one only Radiohead fans need concern themselves with IMHO. So many people listen to music just for the music. I am a lyrics and music man but it's not that common really. I think ignoring the lyrics just means they're not important to you, not that you're thick.

Ash Jeffries

"I don't think we, as audience members, knowing Dave and Denise as we do, would be expected to believe that they'd pay all that much attention to the lyrics of any song" Well, yeah, that's literally the joke of the scene.

Right Said Brett

Nope - it's gone again..... third time lucky? You're not wrong about Caroline Aherne's sharpness or comedy-writing prowess, but I just don't think that scene was intended that way. Radiohead are notoriously dour, but that song isn't sonically so, it's quite serene (they were influenced musically by The Beach Boys for that particular song). Lyrically it is darker, very much so, but I don't think not being aware of lyrics makes you dim. I am a Radiohead fan so I know them but so many people listen to songs without paying attention to lyrics and I don't think we, as audience members, knowing Dave and Denise as we do, would be expected to believe that they'd pay all that much attention to the lyrics of any song, unless it's a sing along number like New York, New York, as per the dancing and singing downstairs. For me the scene follows on very neatly from Jim's. Throughout the series we are met with Dave being the rather simple pushover and Denise the lazy, somewhat thoughtless absent mother. They're guilty as charged and Jim says so albeit in paraphrase. He also says, "Your parents love you, Baby David" and their scene that followed, whilst gently amusing, for me just underlined that in spite of what we know they are, they are also, underneath it all, sweet people. As sharp and intelligent as Caroline Aherne was, I don't think that kind of satire - the irony of dark song lyrics - is quite her style really. I think it's reading the scene a bit too deeply and I think The Royle Family doesn't, as wonderfully written as it is, go in for that level of incisiveness - the ironies are there but they're a bit more quotidian and less "academic" than that. I just don't think it's their style. Just my view though. We can't possibly really know for a fact as only Caroline and Craig really do.

Ash Jeffries

"The humour was always about making ordinary points about ordinary people, there was never really any cerebral commentary on any of the characters. " But that choice of song absolutely is an ordinary point about ordinary people. I've heard plenty of people in life say "I don't like Radiohead. They're too depressing but I like the one song which goes 'do doo, do doo, do doo do dooo dooooooo do'. That's a lovely song". It flies over their heads that it's a song about suicide because most people just hear the lullaby style music and don't actually bother to listen to the lyrics. Caroline Aherne was making a jab at such people with that scene. It's like when people unironically think that the song 'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life' from The Life of Brian is about having a positive attitude, whereas the entire joke is that the people singing that song in the movie are in an utterly hopeless situation and have been condemned to die a slow, agonising, drawn out death. There is no bright side to their cruel fate and yet they all idiotically whistle an inane, nonsense song about looking on the bright side of life, when they've only got a couple of days of life left and said couple of days will be spent in agony.

Right Said Brett

Reposted my long reply above as the board deletes it if you hit edit too many times! Eeeep! Well, it's possible, but I just feel the lyrics are an afterthought - it was a song that Dave and Denise could hum along to, and that in itself was quite funny, but I just don't see The Royle Family as that kind of show really. If that were in The Office or The Thick of It.....absolutely! But it seems a bit "clever" for The Royle Family. The humour was always about making ordinary points about ordinary people, there was never really any cerebral commentary on any of the characters. Still, it's all open to interpretation I guess!

Ash Jeffries

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. The joke is clearly that Denise and Dave are too dim to know that its a song about suicide by the notoriously dour and depressing band Radiohead. The lyrics aren't exactly difficult to decipher... ------------------------------------- A heart that's full up like a landfill A job that slowly kills you Bruises that won't heal You look so tired, unhappy Bring down the government They don't, they don't speak for us I'll take a quiet life A handshake of carbon monoxide And no alarms and no surprises No alarms and no surprises No alarms and no surprises Silent, silent This is my final fit My final bellyache With no alarms and no surprises No alarms and no surprises No alarms and no surprises, please ------------------------------------- Caroline Aherne was as sharp as a tack when it came to comedy writing. There's no way that she chose this song without realising what it's about. That's why the punchline is "see, you are a great Mum". If they'd wanted the scene to be unironic then they would have chosen a simple lullaby or any number of songs which aren't about suicide.

Right Said Brett

I think the lyrics to the song are an amusing sidenote but I don't think there is any more significance to it than that to be honest. Baby David won't be any the wiser and the song has a lullaby-esque sonic quality to it so I think it's perfectly appropriate musically. Maybe you're right and they meant more by it than that, but I have never interpreted it that way to be honest. :) I thought it was, for once, a genuinely sweet scene with no real agenda comedy-wise.

Ash Jeffries

I think Mary has the onset of early dementia.

Right Said Brett

I love the scene where Denise and Dave play the song 'No Surprises' by Radiohead to Baby David and say its his favourite song. The joke being that Denise and Dave are too dim to realise that the song is about a man committing suicide due to depression. They just hear the calming music but have never actually bothered to listen to the lyrics and notice how inappropriate of a song it is to play to a baby. Dave says "see, you are a good Mum" to Denise, as they play the song about suicide to their baby child. XD It reminds me of that idiotic band Scissor Sisters, who did an upbeat disco cover version of the Pink Floyd song 'Comfortably Numb', seemingly unaware that it's a song about heroin addiction and therefore completely inappropriate for a Bee Gees style disco cover.

Right Said Brett

Is this an extract from a book you have written?

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I think James Cordon is an unfunny talentless idiot.

Fantastic reaction, Josh! :-D An absolutely joyful episode of The Royle Family this, and I am ever amazed at how Caroline Aherne and Craig Cash have created a situation comedy that is as naturalistic as it's possible to be, the chemistry between everyone is so completely believable, and even the way it's directed, the camera walking around the room with everyone else; you feel like you're there, joining in and having fun at the party. I think it's especially satisfying because there are a good few episodes where it's just a few people sitting on the sofa watching TV, lots of quiet and long pauses between patches of dialogue. They draw you in, make you fully connect with the characters, and then when you get an episode like this, where everyone is animated and enjoying themselves, it's just a thing to behold; you feel like you've known them for years. It isn't improvised either - as natural as it all seems, it is tightly scripted, and that is even more impressive. Some details I think are pertinent: with Mary, I think it's a combination of a) being a bit drunk, b) her memory fading, and c) innate eccentricity. I got the impression that she just had the giggles at the party, hence the raucous and almost incessant laughter, but it was just a really joyous occasion and it's almost as if she's prone to the giggles quite easily and only needs to be in a social situation where others are in good humour to set it off. Twiggy's girlfriend is deeply unlikeable IMHO. It's not really what she says, but how she says it that bugs me; she's very brusque, and almost delights in pulling the rug from beneath Cheryl. It's easy to feel she's just doing what everyone else does, and I'll admit I can find the constant fat-centric jibes at Cheryl from everyone a bit hard to watch, but I think again, Caroline and Craig are very clever in how they write it when it's the others doing it; they all genuinely love and like Cheryl as a person so whilst they tease her, they don't mean anything in a truly nasty way. I am a bit on the fence with Joe - I think he's a bit of a misogynist and a little too matter-of-fact in his opinion; it's his daughter which makes it worse, but there's no humour or affection there. Jim is the biggest pest but as with how treats Anthony, and the digs he makes at Denise too, I do think he does it, essentially, with love. He's the kind of person who, if he was being nice to you, you'd be convinced he didn't like you very much. He's awful to Norma, but he's secretly very fond of her, you can tell. Lovely scene upstairs with Baby David, first with Jim and then with David and Denise. As a fan of Radiohead, I approve of Baby David's taste in music! Haha! And again, where we get the occasional soft moment from Jim, we are reminded here that Denise isn't spiteful or ill-intentioned; she's just clueless and, in truth, bone idle. She wants the easiest life possible but if she puts her mind to it, she can achieve the basic things, such as being a more thoughtful person and mother. The party atmosphere and extended scenes of everyone singing and dancing I love about this show - the confidence to stay with a particular moment, to soak it up; it's a show with zero plot, but for all of that, it's extremely immersive. Love that ending - just the timing of it, and the bathos of the moment; party atmosphere and laughter and then suddenly, "Oh, sh*t, our son's got his girlfriend pregnant!" Beautifully delivered.......um.....no pun intended! :-D Josh, I can't remember if you've been told or whether you already knew, or whether I've already mentioned it (probably!) but Emma (Anthony's girlfriend) is played by Sheridan Smith who plays Smithy's sister in Gavin & Stacey. I do think she looks rather different here - she has quite a changeable appearance IMHO. She's much girlier here, more feminine, and of course, she's a good few years older in G&S. Next week's is marvellous, and then after that I believe it's the masterpiece episode.....The Queen of Sheba. Cannot wait! :-D

Ash Jeffries

One of my favourite episodes of season 3😁

Nickthegamingnerd