One Tree Hill 4X10: Songs to Love and Die By
Added 2024-05-10 17:00:09 +0000 UTCMy god this show is trying to kill me. There is a ton of ugly crying. Sorry in advance. Lol.
I didn't realize how much I missed Keith. I hope we can find other ways to bring him back. But this really means that he's dead. Somewhere in the back of my mind I think I was holding out hope that somehow he'd survived. (Crazier things have happened in Tree Hill).
You know, I didn't put much thought into Brooke potentially having survivors guilt. I know she's talked about how she wished that Lucas could have saved her like he saved Peyton, but I didn't really think about her feeling guilty for simply not being there. It's just something I realized now as I'm typing this up. Might be nothing. But it wouldn't surprise me if this came up in therapy (assuming I could finally force these kids to go).
And the happiest moment of all: DAN IN JAIL! It was so nice to get a few moments of happiness in this otherwise angst ridden episode. That said, I think they are going to find out that Daunte actually died from the car accident and not being punched by 'Dan' and he's going to end up getting out of prison sooner rather than later. Sigh.
Are we trying to say that the person who saw Dan kill Keith was Lucas? And he what, blocked it out completely? I know I'm sounding very skeptical here and I am. Mostly because I really thought Lucas was already out of the building when this happened and if he blocked out this memory because it was too painful, how is he spray painting Dan's walls?
I'm very surprised that the baby is okay. I was 100% sure she was going to lose it. I still feel like she's going to, but this was the perfect opportunity. But, the doctor did say something like, 'there's no reason to believe anything is wrong if we hear a heartbeat.' So not exactly impossible for complications to arise.
I guess Lucas and Peyton are getting back together. Since he literally decided to live so he could tell her he loved her. I'm here for it. I do like this ship, I'm just concerned that now really isn't the time for either of them to be in a serious relationship. Hopefully they prove me wrong.
Comments
Once I guessed (literally, like immediately before) that we might have a time jump, I was cool with it. But I could not figure out how they were gonna have that baby and still both go to college. The answer was simply, not to show it to me. Which honestly, totally worked. And not to spoil my reactions, but, how can you not fall in love with Jamie?
Dana Licciardello
2024-08-01 22:00:44 +0000 UTCIt’s so funny, Jamie is one of my favourite things to come out of OTH so it’s just hilarious seeing someone deny his existence so vehemently 😂😂 but I get it, when I first watched OTH I also didn’t think she’d have the baby (I hoped she would, I didn’t want the angst and the heartbreak) I didn’t know how they’d make it work but with the time jump it all just clicked into place
Jenny V
2024-07-31 11:36:16 +0000 UTCOMG. I was so confident. I was so sure. 😳
Dana Licciardello
2024-07-31 11:13:58 +0000 UTCfinally watching your reactions now that you've watched all of season 5 and I guess im ready for you to deny Jamie's existence the entire season 😂
Jenny V
2024-07-29 23:48:21 +0000 UTCThis is an interesting topic of discussion where this episode is concerned, one that I hadn't really thought about before. I did enjoy the concept but after reading through your thoughts, I totally agree that they could have used some better examples for Lucas, especially where Naley are concerned. It was already canon on the show during S3 that Haley came home from the tour when she had an epiphany while singing one night and she realized that none of it mattered anymore without Nathan. So while maybe one can argue that when Lucas went to New York to ask her to come home, she might have held onto the conversation in the back of her mind somewhere but make no mistake....Haley coming home to Nathan was all Haley's doing and realizing that she didn't want to be apart from him any longer. I also wholeheartedly believe that Naley would have found their way back to each other whether Lucas went to see her on tour or not. Just like I firmly believe that Naley would have eventually met and got together with or without Lucas joining the Ravens. When two people are that connected and so intricately intertwined and soulmates the way Naley are.... that magnetic connection can't be deterred. It's cosmic timing, written in the stars, lightning in a bottle...whatever catch phrase you want to use, hehe, but it's always there. Sort of like white noise. That's why all the AU world episodes that they sprinkle in throughout the series are so telling because it highlights the fact without a doubt that no matter what world or situation you put Naley in...they're always together. Not sure you can say that about any other couple on the show, and that's what sets them apart from the others. But I'm getting off topic now, so I digress, lol, but I think the show got across it's point and that was to highlight "does being a good person matter"? And "can one life really change the world"? And I'm sure like you...that your favorite parts of the episode had nothing to do with Lucas and everything to do with Naley, hehe. James' acting was so on point as a worried and distraught Nathan sitting by Haley's bedside and begging God to perform a miracle for her and their unborn son, and not to take them away from him. If that didn't shatter one's heart, then I don't know what would, lol. Also loved the parallel with Dan and Nathan that the show does so well, and Nathan telling Dan that the baby is supposed to be a boy, and Dan imploring Nathan to get back to Haley. Nathan at Haley's bedside begging her to move her beautiful fingers slay me every time, and I already mentioned how great the chapel scene was, and then Haley waking up and the "Hi" responses by both of them...gosh gets me every damn time. And the absolute best is the ultrasound scene at the end, when Naley hear their baby's heartbeat and realize that their son is okay...he survived the accident as well. Haley's overwhelming relief is golden, and Nathan grabbing her hand and consoling her as tears of joy run down her face...is inspiring. They are what made the episode for me, although I did enjoy Keith and it was nice having him back in this capacity to watch over everyone and provide some much-needed hope. So overall, I did enjoy the episode very much, but it would have been a perfect 10 if the examples and choices they used to highlight the concept matched better for the characters. So thanks for pointing that out!!!
Melissa
2024-05-13 05:06:31 +0000 UTCThis is an interesting topic of discussion where this episode is concerned, one that I hadn't really thought about before. I did enjoy the concept but after reading through your thoughts, I totally agree that they could have used some better examples for Lucas, especially where Naley are concerned. It was already canon on the show during S3 that Haley came home from the tour when she had an epiphany while singing one night and she realized that none of it mattered anymore without Nathan. So while maybe one can argue that when Lucas went to New York to ask her to come home, she might have held onto the conversation in the back of her mind somewhere but make no mistake....Haley coming home to Nathan was all Haley's doing and realizing that she didn't want to be apart from him any longer. I also wholeheartedly believe that Naley would have found their way back to each other whether Lucas went to see her on tour or not. Just like I firmly believe that Naley would have eventually met and got together with or without Lucas joining the Ravens. When two people are that connected and so intricately intertwined and soulmates the way Naley are.... that magnetic connection can't be deterred. It's cosmic timing, written in the stars, lightning in a bottle...whatever catch phrase you want to use, hehe, but it's always there. Sort of like white noise. That's why all the AU world episodes that they sprinkle in throughout the series are so telling because it highlights the fact without a doubt that no matter what world or situation you put Naley in...they're always together. Not sure you can say that about any other couple on the show, and that's what sets them apart from the others. But I'm getting off topic now, so I digress, lol, but I think the show got across it's point and that was to highlight "does being a good person matter"? And "can one life really change the world"? And I'm sure like you...that your favorite parts of the episode had nothing to do with Lucas and everything to do with Naley, hehe. James' acting was so on point as a worried and distraught Nathan sitting by Haley's bedside and begging God to perform a miracle for her and their unborn son, and not to take them away from him. If that didn't shatter one's heart, then I don't know what would, lol. Also loved the parallel with Dan and Nathan that the show does so well, and Nathan telling Dan that the baby is supposed to be a boy, and Dan imploring Nathan to get back to Haley. Nathan at Haley's bedside begging her to move her beautiful fingers slay me every time, and I already mentioned how great the chapel scene was, and then Haley waking up and the "Hi" responses by both of them...gosh gets me every damn time. And the absolute best is the ultrasound scene at the end, when Naley hear their baby's heartbeat and realize that their son is okay...he survived the accident as well. Haley's overwhelming relief is golden, and Nathan grabbing her hand and consoling her as tears of joy run down her face...is inspiring. They are what made the episode for me, although I did enjoy Keith and it was nice having him back in this capacity to watch over everyone and provide some much-needed hope. So overall, I did enjoy the episode very much, but it would have been a perfect 10 if the examples and choices they used to highlight the concept matched better for the characters. So thanks for pointing that out!!!
Melissa
2024-05-13 05:06:30 +0000 UTCCan one life really make an impact on the world and do the good choices we make matter? What is the point of being a good person when bad things happen to people who do good things and make good choices? That was the concept of the episode. Sure Lucas was the source and may have impacted when and how Nathan and Haley met, but it was not by any good choice or anything Lucas did for them directly. Nathan and Haley just happened to have agendas that involved Lucas. Both of them were using the other for Lucas. Nathan to hurt him and Haley to save him. Lucas was really an antagonist and obstacle in their relationship. When he found out, he didn't want them anywhere near each other. Haley was used to bring the brothers together. Lucas was not used to bring Naley together. Basically, in spite of Lucas they found a connection that had nothing to do with Lucas. Could they have met without him? Maybe. Probably. I do think the best move for Haley's character was leaving her Lucas bubble. But this happened by her choices, not Lucas.' Like I mentioned, Lucas didn't want anything to do with Nathan nor did he want Haley to have anything to do with him. I don't see him expanding their friendship group. Her choice to tutor Nathan, for Lucas, despite how it might affect her relationship with Lucas, was what changed her life. As for the example the show used and you mentioned, sure Lucas chose to look for Peyton when he finally realized Nathan wasn't leaving. He stayed for Nathan because he wasn't leaving his wife who was also his bff. And he had to be convinced to even do that. "Come on Lucas it's Haley." Peyton wasn't a factor at this point. Even after Brooke told him that Peyton was probably still in the school and could have been shot! Of course he eventually chose to look for her and stayed with her when he found her. But when it was initially a matter of choice he wanted to make the safe choice and let the police handle it. Nothing wrong with that, but they always always make a point to say he went into the school to save Peyton when in reality he didn't even understand Nathan's need to go in and save Haley. My point here is that he was sort of forced into that choice by default. It felt more like, since I'm already here I should look for Peyton. Certainly the show would be a different show if Lucas never joined the Ravens, but that was not the concept of the episode. It was about if the good choices we make really matter. The episode was fine. Just far from a favorite, but not the worst either. I was entertained. I just thought it fell flat in concept because the examples they used were weak. Also, Lucas is not my favorite character, so if you want to convince me that he's essentially the heart/glue/the good guy of the show, I need more than that. And that's what those examples felt like to me. Convincing. Did the good choices Lucas make really matter? My answer was "No." As far as Lucus, but that's just me. It doesn't mean I don't agree with the concept as a whole. I do think people can have an impact on others and the good choices we make matters.
Heather
2024-05-12 00:53:42 +0000 UTCI haven't even watched any of the season 4 reactions yet but I thought I'd add that I agree that there should have been different examples but its true that lucas is kinda the glue for naley specifically. Nathan wouldn't have even looked at Haley if lucas didn't join the team and rile him up enough to ask haley for tutoring help to get back at lucas. Haley would've stayed in her lucas bubble and probably wouldn't have pursued any of the interests she has now like music and cheerleading (thanks to nathan's and the girls influence in her life) if lucas didn't branch out their friendship group. I do agree that lucas has done no good with Brooke, other than possible made her rethink her point of view on love. She wasn't really the dating type at the start until lucas, yes he ended up absolutely shattering her newfound joy in steady relationships and romance in general but we got to see a different side to Brooke when lucas was with her which in turn made us like her, in season 1 that is, she was entirely loveable by herself in season 2. And sure he went into the school for nathan but he stayed because he saw someone was bleeding out. As bad as it is to say, Nathan would've let whoever it was bleed out to go for haley. So yeah he only ended up in the school because nathan went in but he stayed because he saw peyton bleeding out. Without lucas there, Peyton would be dead. I don't think it matters why he went into the school in the first place, its the impact he had going in that they were going for. I'm saying all this even though I'm in no way a lucas shooter, he's not my favourite character in the show but the show wouldn't be what it is if it lucas didn't decide to take the place in the team and mess their world up a bit. Sure we can imagine an OTH without lucas and maybe it would've worked out the same but frankly he's the main character (especially in season 1 which is were the most changes happened) and main characters will always have a profound effect on events and character relationships.
Jenny V
2024-05-11 22:55:29 +0000 UTCI loved your reaction!! Just not the concept of the episode.
Heather
2024-05-11 03:40:10 +0000 UTCI don't disagree with you, and I hope that what I'm about to say doesn't come off as dismissive, because I certainly don't mean it that way. But, I'm a big believer in the small things being more important than big gestures. Everything you said is very potentially true (especially your last paragraph- I 100% agree about different examples), but something about this episode really resonated with me. Maybe it was just a combination of getting Keith back and Dan being in jail. Lol. I didn't even realize that Brooke's connection to Lucas was based on Peyton. That really says something, doesn't it? I'm so ready for an episode where I don't cry though! Fingers crossed for Monday.
Dana Licciardello
2024-05-10 18:58:23 +0000 UTCJust a episode to put you in the feels and to think about it
C. J. Ramirez
2024-05-10 18:33:07 +0000 UTCLucas being the reason for these characters to choose the path they took because of all the good he brought into their lives and that he had such a tremendous impact on them is pretty far-fetched to me. He is not the heart of the show. It felt really forced. I liked some parts of this episode, but Lucas as George Bailey was too much. I don't necessarily hate the concept, but it would have been better if it was believable. It's not a stretch to say that the things you do for the people around you has some impact, but they were specifically saying without Lucas things would have gone differently and that it was his goodness/impact that caused the ultimate results. I felt the examples they used were a reach. Lucas visiting Haley in NY, thus making her come back? They already said on the show what the moment was that made her come back. She didn't say Lucas. Lucas talking to Nathan on the basketball court about being an asshole to Haley and that he should give her another chance, thus saving their marriage? Really? Most people agreed with Nathan there that Lucas needed to stay out of their marriage and let them figure it out, which they pretty much did. As a result of that conversation, Nathan went to the beach and told Haley he needed space and they needed to focus on other things. The following episode he was looking into a divorce. Haley saved her marriage. Lucas had nothing to do with that. Lucas deciding to go back into the school to save Peyton, thus preventing her death and preventing Brooke from becoming Goth? It didn't go down like that. He ended up saving her as a result of Nathan going back into the school. In fact, he tried to prevent Nathan from going back in and then tried to talk him out of it when he couldn't. He could not understand Nathan's need to save his wife. Interesting that they couldn't find a way that Lucas directly affected Brooke. Really though, what impact has he had on Brooke's life. He's just made her even more insecure. I should have been thinking, "that is so true," instead I was side-eyeing the moments they chose, which made the concept questionable in Lucas' case, but not the concept itself. Maybe there were better examples they could have chosen (Idk, can't think of any off the top of my head) and it would have been more meaningful for me. This episode was a letdown for me after the greatness of the previous one.
Heather
2024-05-10 18:08:07 +0000 UTCGood to hear. Oftentimes when I really like an episode and I look it up later, (which I haven't done with this episode yet) and find that people hated it. I was a little concerned people might hate this episode because it was a little bit too hammy with the parallel to It's a Wonderful Life.
Dana Licciardello
2024-05-10 17:35:40 +0000 UTCThis was top 5 episodes of all time
C. J. Ramirez
2024-05-10 17:28:41 +0000 UTC
