Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 6x17 “Normal Again” FULL REACTION

The “Buffy, you need help” from Joyce is grasping at straws in terms of implying Buffy could have been instituted for two weeks by her..

Alexis Cardarella

Yes, I love certain concepts of this episode, but it couldn’t have been more contrived. And it irks me when people try to make it fit.. like.. we get Joyce has a certain capacity for denial.. but she would have brought it up when in witch and when Buffy came out as the slayer to her.. which apparently would have been the second time? Yeah, ugh, just stop trying to make it fit, people.

Alexis Cardarella

She hadn’t been given the antidote yet so i always just see it as her still hallucinating but not giving in to it

Nichole Hutchison

well if the buffyverse is just her fantasy then its entirely aceptable that she just 'forgot' whats a little visit to the hospital compared to inventing a sibling

Remember that Buffy's head is filled with history that never happened because of the monks creating Dawn. Sure, that's also cheap way to look at "I was in the hospital" scene. But I don't think Buffy's parents "forgetting" this two weeks of hospitalization is really anything weird. Sure they haven't forgot it, but it's natural to hope it was just a small bump in the road, and it's better to just forget about it. In any case love and hate this episode. In many ways this is really great episode, but I hate the screwing up of the lore and canon. The last part where we saw Buffy's parents in the hospital with catatonic Buffy actually has only one logical solution, the whole show is fake and the reality where Buffy is mentally ill is true. It could have been awesome if there would have been something that allowed Buffy to logically conclude that the "vampire reality" is the true reality. And we would have never seen the hospital reality after that. It would be proof that hospital reality was fake for those who hate that idea, but not really prove that for those who either somehow like the idea of Buffy being mental or like the idea that we just don't know. The change of pretty and really popular girl like Buffy, remember that she was like Cordelia in her old school before the vampires, would need to create these defenses to survive or feel self worth is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps this sort of reasoning by her friends would have made her take the jump of faith to leave her parents in the hospital reality.

Jussi Vatanen

That commentary at the end really has me looking forward to the end of this season

Kobe

SMG’s acting in this episode is incredible. I mean her acting always is but that scene where she says goodbye to her mum is heart wrenching😭😭

Sarah McKinlay

Director had to fight for that ending until it got up the flagpole to Joss who signed on for it. It's a great choice. Ultimatley I don't think anybody comes away from the series thinking it's really about a mentally ill girl in an institution... but that very "Outer Limits" moment of pause it gives you was the move.

Dan H

I think your reactions remain thoughtful and insightful. My honest opinion though about this episode is it sucks to the point I prefer to see it as non-canon.

Nick Earl

Man, I love this episode, even if it's uncomfortable to watch. I think it's really well done, and the fact that the fandom it's still debating it to this day is a testament to that. Another highlight of the season for me

Khanach

I like to think that both realities exist and that the insane one somehow they each tapped into each others

Shauni Livingstone

I always figured the ending scene was just Buffy flashing there after she killed the demon, but before they gave her the antidote. Willow: Buffy, sit down. You'll fall over. Buffy: No ... I can't. Not until I have the antidote. [Last flash to the hallucination] Like Buffy's seeing it, but she's just refusing to engage with it anymore.

My personal headcanon to explain the logic in this episode was always that Buffy was flashing into an actual Alternate Universe where her counterpart was in a mental institution, hence the ending scene where she's still in the hospital (which doesn't really make sense with the in-episode "explanation" of just being poisoned by the monster). I know other people, even in these comments, interpret it as the institution actually is the "real world" and everything in the show is just in her head, but I kind of hate that idea so I like seeing it as just a sad parallel universe with no magic or vampires.

boleynns

100% agree that the whole “I used to be in an institution” thing feels thrown in sloppily. It actually took me out of the story. I would’ve bought the confusion of her so much more had they left that out and attributed the confusion to the monster poison or whatever it is that infected her. In the end, this is one of the very few episodes that I could skip without feeling guilty on a rewatch lol

Kelly Keel

This is one of my faves!! And it trips me up every time!

Signe (Seena) Stewart

I always thought this episode was poorly executed, the idea was great though. Too bad.

To me, a brilliant episode that really shows the dark and interesting themes of season 6. It's kind of like a horror movie scenario. The idea that her reality isn't real. It kind of is the same with the heaven plot. She would rather be in an alternative reality where her family is still alive and she doesn't have the weight of the world then this reality. Her reality is way more sucky then the mental world. And that is the point isn't it. The hardest thing in this life is to live in it.

Angela Colon

Now that I think about it, Buffy thinking she's been in a mental hospital before could be information the Monks added. How does Buffy really know if that memory really happened to her, or not now. Maybe it filled in for something that was needed to make her memory make sense. Just a thought, and echoing a bit from what Rachel posted. So while we think of it as a retcon, isn't Dawn the biggest retcon there is :p It can explain things away easily.

Brent Justice

There's actually a non-canon comic I enjoyed that helps explain this episode. In "Slayer, Interrupted" it's revealed that it was actually Dawn who found Buffy's diary and showed it to their parents, which led to her getting institutionalized for the first time. Of course, when we watched the first couple seasons, Dawn didn't exist yet, so none of that had happened in our continuity. The whole thing was a byproduct of Buffy's memories being rearranged to make room for Dawn, and you could even consider it an expansion of the fear established by Ted when he read Buffy's diary and threatened to have her committed back in season 2. Of course, I recognize that the comic isn't canon. But well, neither is half this episode.

Rachel Espiritu

On the "retconning" issue, I don't mind it because it isn't forced, and it isn't huge in scope. I think they did a good job of subtly sliding it in there so it makes just enough of an impact to make you think. It adds depth and backstory to Buffy, which is never bad. It isn't life-altering to the character and doesn't change the character really. So I'm ok with it. It also makes sense in the real-world. If you had a troubled teen that started all the sudden wrecking things and claiming it was vampires, you might think he/she troubled as well! I could see them wanting to make sure she is ok. It's a real-world consequence.

Brent Justice

I agree, the "nerds" are much more than just Nerds, they have done some pretty evil things. They are good human villains to be honest, doing as much as a human can do without having special powers.

Brent Justice

See some of the other comments for how it makes even more sense than we thought.

Richard Lucas

Tara did those 2 spells but then Buffy grabbed her ankle through the stairs and tripped her, causing Tara to fall all the way down the stairs. Maybe Tara hit her head and was momentarily stunned, or concussed.

Richard Lucas

This is the only episode I rewatch less than The Body. It completely unnerves me, I find it physically uncomfortable to watch, and just can’t submit myself to it - that is, I guess, a ya stammer to how well they executed their vision, even if I... hate the vision, lol. I still love Season 6 for its deeply messy, painful and layered arc but this episode is NOT it for me.

Renee Pope-Munro

This season heads into some extremely dark territory, and I think we have to be able to talk to each other about it with compassion and respect. So this is meant in that spirit. I would say that the Nerds aren't just innocentish boys who love gadgets and whose antics just get out of hand. Sometimes it helps to see these characters clearly by just stating what they've done. At this point, Jonathan has performed powerful black magic to bend the world to his will, including the will of the twins he was having sex with without meaningful consent (Superstar). Andrew did the thing with flying demon monkeys, and marching band or something? Something designed to terrorise and hurt people, anyway. Warren objectified women so much, that he thought he could build a robot girlfriend, and then he programmed it to adore him unquestionably and uncritically, and be utterly obedient. He then found he preferred the challenge of a real woman with free will, but when she found out what a misogynistic dick he was and broke up with him, he uses a mind control device on her, and he kidnaps her, with the intent of raping her and letting his friends do the same. (And to go back to Jonathan and Andrew, they're willing participants in this plot to find, incapacitate, kidnap and rape a woman). Warren then kills her whilst assaulting her trying to stop her from leaving. (Dead Things) There's plenty more that they've done this season, but I think it's clear that real darkness of the Nerds is they're Incels, they have this deep, entitled misogyny, where they want to control, particularly women, They see themselves as victimised, they weren't the alpha, jock types in high school, so they believe that was the reason girls didn't like them (rather than because of some character/personality/attitude problem), so now, because girls apparently aren't making the 'right' decision about who to be with, they feel entitled to use their 'cunning' to 'trick' girls into having sex against their better judgement (or, as they're actually doing, incapacitating her in order to rape her). I guess what I'm saying is that the Trio might frame their actions so as to minimise them, they probably wouldn't characterise their own actions like this. We're primed by the culture not to take these men seriously, either. They're men children who still play with toys! They're physically unthreatening! Etc. But we should take it seriously. Hatred of women (or any group) leads to objectification and dehumanisation and is dangerous. And certainly dark. Anyway, this was a bit of an essay, sorry. I think good art and storytelling should encourage this kind of reflection and discussion, but yeah, sorry about the essay!

Briony Addey

One of my all time favorites. What if...

Mementovitae

This episode freaks me out on a physiological level and makes me very uncomfortable, especially the ending. One of my least favorite of the show just because it's difficult for me to watch.

AngelicMouseGirl

This is one of my all time favourite buffy episodes, I always use this episode to show cast how amazing Sarah is as an actress. Like she blew me away more than normally. Though I get that in general it's not considered a fan favourite, I just really love it due to the amazing acting.

s jaco

Yeah, that's a good point. Things like that coming out of nowhere six seasons in? I just don't buy it. Maybe that's a memory the monks put in.

FernWithy

This is one I really WANT to like, it's an interesting idea, but every time I watch it, I remember that no, I don't actually like it. Too much retconning, too much... well, "too much melodrama" is a given, but this one especially has it.

FernWithy

Buffy's stay in the Institution was clearly retconned, otherwise Buffy and/or Joyce would have mentioned it at least once in Bad Eggs, Killed By Death, or Becoming, when Buffy made mention of Vampires in front of Joyce. It's not a plothole per se because there is nothing that specifically states that she never went to an asylum, but its a little unrealistic that it would never have come up at all over the years.....this is a meh episode for me.

Jon Dub

I never picked up on that before. That is really interesting.

Maren Ayres

Terrible episode for me. Probably in my top 5 most hated. That last scene at the end is so bad and idiotic.

Roy Ben-Ami

I like this episode but I don’t love it. It’s interesting and fun to see Buffy’s parents but it doesn’t do that much overall except torture Buffy. I actually really like the revelation that Buffy was once in an asylum for a couple of weeks. I think it adds some complexity to the character. I do think that they could have come up with a better reason for why though that didn’t make her parents come off so weird. Oh well.

Ray D

Every three or four videos, Liam refers back to Der Kindestod as "Der Kinderegg" and it cracks me up every time.

I love this episode! I have always stuck to my belief that the institution is real and the slayer world is fake. It doesn't take me out of the story one bit (I'm already watching a fictional tv show, another layer of fiction won't do much). I'm so glad the writers left it up to interpretation instead of forcing Sunnydale on the viewers, it makes this episode that much better.

Prue

Buffy's moment of clarity in the asylum world was when she died at the end of season 5, and then her friends "pulled her back in" to the world of Sunnydale.

Katherine Thoreson

"there's wedding then betrayal" Anya's lines in "Once More With Feeling" episode. I feel like that was a foreshadowing of the previous episode. And I love your reaction to the end with Joyce's last speech to Buffy that gave her a realisation that she needed to accept her own reality... which isn't the insane asylum one but as a hero. As much as she wanted to be with her mom, the fact that her mom was there with her as if she's a spirit, it gave her that support she needed in times of her struggles. It's hard enough without Giles but she needed that reassurance from her own mother who she really is and that she's the Slayer. She's hero of her own story and that's what she wants to believe. She needed to be reminded of her own calling, destiny, that despite feeling like she wants to quit, or that she "wanted it over" she had to fulfill it no matter what.

Shierra C Styver

You're potentially setting up expectations for the episode with this. I'd err on the side of caution and delete this post, we really want Liam to not have any sort of expectations one way or another given to him (or at least not ones he may notice on his own without us pointing things like the credits out).

Claire Eyles

If Joyce had feared Buffy was mentally ill because of her claims of vampires and being the slayer to the point of having her committed for a few weeks just two years prior to this conversation...wouldn't she have had more of a severe and serious reaction to Buffy bringing up being a vampire slayer even as a joke? And then, at the end of the season when Buffy actually does slay a vampire in front of Joyce and confesses that she is actually a vampire slayer, in their subsequent argument neither one brings up this mental hospital stay.

The only real plothole I can think of as far as Buffy being briefly institutionalized in LA after being activated as the Slayer, is in season 2's "Bad Eggs" where Buffy missed picking up something for her mom because she had to attempt to slay a vampire. In the food court of the mall, Joyce is frustrated with Buffy and asks her what could be so important that distracted her. Buffy, knowing that the truth is completely unbelievable, goes ahead and tells Joyce honestly something to the effect of "saving the world from vampires and the forces of evil?" Joyce interprets this as sarcasm or otherwise a joke response, and they move on.

Such a great and kind of psychologically gripping episode.

Nicholas Mims

This has always been among my favorite episodes written by someone other than Joss. Yes, it has its problems. I am less bothered than you are by the late revelation of Buffy's previous time in a mental institution (though I never really thought about the argument in Becoming, where it probably, you're right, would have come up) because it's just not the sort of thing that people reveal if they don't have to. I've always been bothered by how much time the doctor spends telling Joyce and Buffy's dad things they (should) already know. The father interrupts him once to complain about this, but that's not enough to defuse the fact that this is one of the most annoying and least satisfying ways of doing exposition dumps. The lameness of that takes me out of the story repeatedly. So I always just refer to him as Dr. Exposition Dumpster. But the idea of questioning the reality of her reality (this fictional world) is a great thing to mine this late in a series run (an episode like this would be an epic fail in seasons 1-3), and, quibbles aside, this episode always delivers it for me.

Steve Maxey

I personally like both the parallel and the err....anti-parallel between this and Earshot when Angel was the only one strong enough to go out and hunt the demon they needed for the antidote and he was the one who got on the bed with her and made her drink it down, and then Spike is only one strong enough to hunt down this demon they need for the antidote but then he's the one who makes her not want to drink it. I might be the only one who thinks that though....

SweetSummit

HAHAHA outright called you being really into Willow in a ponytail ages ago, it really does suit her and I can't believe it took this long to put her in one.

KT

Excellent episode....I admit being one who used to skip-by it, but my appreciation has grown on every rewatch. SMG's facial expression when she looks to the side and says "It's ridiculous......" SO good

SpikesEcho

I love this episode. Her initially choosing the unreality of the mental hospital speaks volumes to how much her depression is still a factor, because this non existent place feels like a better alternative to her at the time than the world she's actually in. The only issue I had with it on first watch was the retconning with the 'Buffy was in an institution after telling her parents about Vampires' thing, but subsequent rewatches there are a number of ways it can make sense. Apart from that one initial quibble this remains one of my favourite episodes.

Claire Eyles

I get that. Joss has always been like this. I just personally didn’t feel too good after that ending. LOL up to now I try to skip this episode when I rewatch because it really does make you question Buffy’s reality, now as an audience while going through the rest of the series.

Stephen Mintac

Oooh it’s that divisive episode in Season 6. Honestly, as creative as this episode was, I too, wasn’t a big fan of it. I do appreciate what the writers were trying to do though and it was entertaining for me. I just didn’t like that feeling I got when the episode ended, where I too, have now been wondering, what if the whole story was indeed only happening in Buffy’s head. Now, that we got these last few episodes out of the way, I think we’re ready for that big FINISH of Season 6.

Stephen Mintac

There's some interesting meta-commentary about season 6 in this episode. It's sort of a way for the writers to wink at the audience and say "don't worry, we know what we're doing".

Jarrod Wild

I love this episode and it's a brilliant deconstruction of the show itself, lampshading things like Dawn's sudden existence and the Trio being such a step down from the grand villains of the past. I know Joss has said he wanted it to be up to the viewer's interpretation (though he thinks of the Sunnydale reality as the real one himself), but Marti Noxon has pretty forcibly endorsed the Team Sunnydale interpretation because otherwise it undermines the whole intent of the show and its portrayal of a powerful female hero. I also LOVED seeing Joyce, as well as Hank (and I love that they keep bringing the original actor back that we first saw in "Nightmares").

Pam Nail

I'm in the I love this episode camp. It's so disturbingly good.

Ashley

Yeah, I don't find it a big deal that they said she was in an institution previously. It was only for 2 weeks, she says it was a 'clinic' so not exactly like being committed to a full-on asylum for the insane, I assumed it's more like going to an expensive rehab place for a few weeks for a "rest". As to her parents 'forgetting', I think of it more as, it was a short amount of time, she stopped saying there are vampires and was released, so it just becomes a thing that happened and isn't really mentioned or thought about again - a brief phase of teenage-hood or whatever. I don't feel like it's that much of a stretch or that unbelievable. Also, Buffy didn't just kill her friends outright because she didn't want to have to hurt them. She was convinced she had to to get better, but she didn't want to, so much easier to let the demon kill them and not intervene than to actually do the deed herself.

Dentarthurdent

My second favorite episode of the season so far.

Thomas Hansen

I've had that same experience with telling my family I'm atheist. It's like they just don't want to believe it, so they wipe it from their memories and are surprised all over again the next time I explain the reasons why I'll sit there quietly and respectfully while they say grace before dinner, but won't pray with them.

peggin

I always find it interesting how Buffy, trying to logically decide which world was real, asked herself "What's more real? A sick girl in an institution... or some kind of supergirl chosen to fight demons and save the world." When, IMO, the question she really should have been asking herself was, "What's more real? A world where your parents are both alive and they're together and in love and they just want to take care of you, leaving you with no responsibilities other than getting better... or a world where everything is hard and bright and violent and you have the weight of the world on your shoulders."

peggin

I liked this ep but from what I remember reading the forums back in the day, fans were divided on this ep, some loved some hated. Like you Liam, I know a lot of fans felt the same as you about having the writer(s) have Buffy being in an institution. I definitely see your point but for me, I just hand wave that one and let it go. I wish the writers could be more consistent on magic powers, because for example Tara helped with untying the gang and throwing that bookshelf on the demon, but then that it's....no more magic . I get it,of course Buffy has to save the day and Willow has to stay away from the magic) but they could have Tara still do some more magic to help fight the demon. But really, the writers always have limited how much and when our two witches' powers are used. It's no big deal really, I'm just nitpicking. BTW- I meant to say, it was nice to go a whole episode(Hells Bells) without seeing the nerds. And now they're back. Yuck. And I agree Liam, Tara is under used. And I hope you are right that Willow and Tara get back together. I've only seen this season tons of times, so I don't know, :)

Val

Her parents forgetting about her vampire freak out and the hospitalization doesn't seem that strange to me. I was hospitalized for a week. My parents act like it never happened, including my revelation to them that I had been molested as a child. Later, I had to come out as gay three times to my parents. Each time they were equally surprised.

Exactly. She hadn't taken the antidote yet, but was no longer engaging with the world of her delusion.

peggin

The summer she was lucid was when she was dead, i.e. in heaven.

Raul

The whole "Buffy was in an institute before" retcon never really bothered me. I feel like there's enough in-universe justification for it. 1) You don't casually tell everyone you know that you were committed, 2) she may have only been committed in the new reality that the monks created for Dawn, hence it never being mentioned before and 3) EVERYONE in Sunnydale has selective amnesia about the supernatural, so I'd believe that Buffy's parents chose to "forget" about her delusions if she stopped talking about them. But most of all, Sarah Michelle Gellar absolutely sells it so, I choose to buy it. Also the period where the doctor claimed Buffy was lucid was when she was dead.

RevanTheRebel

I love your analysis - I love all the Buffyverse reactors I sub to for different reasons, but I think you're definitely the best when it comes to picking apart the bones of an episode. As a result I was really looking forward to your thoughts on this episode, because it really is a thinker. As usual, your thoughts and reactions were great. Thanks for providing such consistent and excellent content - it really has helped get me through this lockdown.

Shandler

Pick up that bin and drink it😂😂😂

Collete L

I honestly don't understand the divisiveness of this episode in the fandom... I guess some people assume the last scene discredits the whole show that came before, because it seems like it makes it not real, but she never drank the antidote... so I'm not really sure why people believe that. She was still sick when the episode ended.

Bisibia

I really love this episode. It does seem to be divisive in the fandom, but it's definitely a top 15 for me.

Miah

People have some negative opinions on this episode, but for me this is in my top 10 favorite Buffy eps.

homoerotic 80s volleyball scene personified

Joss Whedon said about this episode's final shot that he left the ending ambiguous and if you, the viewer, want to believe that the whole show is just the imaginings of an asylum patient in Los Angeles, you can. But if you want his input, Buffy and her life as the Slayer happened and it was real.

RevanTheRebel

It autocorrected to “Buggy the Vampire Slayer” this time but I noticed. We’re even.