Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 6x13 “Dead Things” FULL REACTION

Bush has been my favorite Band since the 90's and I love that they used the song Out of this World in the scene with Buffy and Spike at the crypt. Their 4th album Golden State that this is on came out in the fall before this aired and they used a couple songs in s1 of Smallville too the same tv season.

TheMew

A fantastic episode that really shows the themes of this season. Buffy is using Spike and she is doing it because she is damaged herself. That idea that you can use people. A really interesting theme.

Angela Colon

I agree, and I would like to add my own perspective. As you noted, just because you overcome suicidal impulses doesn’t mean that you’re no longer suffering from depression. I’ve struggled with depression from an early age. I was misdiagnosed several times before finally being accurately diagnosed with Bipolar II, which is notoriously difficult to treat. I have had to learn the difference between genuine suicidal impulses and ideation. Just because you realize in the moment that you want to live, doesn’t mean that you won’t experience suicidal ideation again, and that can take different forms, from obsessing over dying to engaging in self-destructive behavior to checking out in other ways. Buffy’s determination to turn herself in felt strikingly different from “Ted” or “Consequences.” It felt like another way of escaping her life/killing herself in a way… and punishing herself because Buffy is so self-loathing right now. I’m so glad she had Tara in this episode because my heart just breaks for Buffy.

Rachael

Yeah I also found it unsettling how, in Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, when Xander revealed the spell was supposed to be for Cordelia and not every other girl, she wasn’t freaked or repulsed, but actually seemed to think it sweet. That got under my skin a little.

Interesting take, I’ve always had more forgiveness for human characters. It seems like (in this TV universe at least) that humans can do bad things, but aren’t inherently “evil”, and are capable of redemption, and that forgiving them can be of the redemptions service. In other words forgiving, and helping a human redeem them selves seems like a possibility, while forgiving a soulless demon would be useless, as they are instruments of evil, and not capable of redemption. Just my two cents tho. I do like ur comparison of Faith to Warren though. From a purely observatory point of view, I’ve noticed the fandom is a lot more ready to forgive faith, and give her a chance at redemption then warren. Angels statement about not arbitrarily deciding which souls to save and not to save seems be forgotten in this situation. To be fair though Warren, and the rest of the trip don’t seem to be actively pursuing redemption. Still, I wonder how the fandom would’ve reacted to the trio, or at least warren, reaching out to angel (or any other character for that matter) and seeking redemption. Something tells me it wouldn’t go over quite as well as the faith situation did. Obviously the writing has a lot do with how the separate characters are viewed, but still I like to compare and contrasts the two.

For me, it's kind of the opposite--that occasionally, you get true moments like "Dead Things" or... a couple of other moments--but for the most part, it just plain doesn't feel TRUE to me. It feels very written and planned, and the characters feel like they're doing as they're being told by the PTB in the writing room instead of being themselves.

FernWithy

This show has A LOT of issues with consent, and this is basically the first time we see it labeled as rape, which makes it a powerful scene, but it also makes me a little frustrated that the show never really labels the many other examples leading up to this point as sexual assault. It's like, "YEAH EFF THE NERDS THIS IS RAPE! Nah it's okay Willow go ahead and roofie your girlfriend. Nah It's cool Faith, go ahead and trick Riley into sleeping with you, violating him AND Buffy's body in the process. Keep coercing each other into sex despite the constant protests Buffy and Spike!" That aside, this really is a very good episode.

Second_Strike

When people say they don't like S6 (and I *do* get it), I say you have to go through the discomfort for the raw, brutally honest moments like Dead Things. It's messy, uncomfortable, painful and TRUE. This is why I value Season 6

Renee Pope-Munro

If it wasn't for the musical, I think this would be my favorite episode of the season. They really went there.

Jarrod Wild

One of the darkest episodes of the entire show and hard to watch at times. Buffy beating Spike saying he’s an evil thing parallels to Faith beating herself saying she’s nothing. Of all the shows I’ve watched I’ve never seen depression portrayed as effectively as Buffy in s6. Can we also praise SMG’s performance especially at the end with Tara she just brings it everytime in emotional scenes.

Sarah McKinlay

This is definitely one of my favorite s6 episodes. It's hard, but it's good. The confusion in Buffy, and the scene where she beats him up as badly as Glory did... she really is in a bad place. (I'm not sure why Dawn wasn't immediately on the phone to Giles, honestly, other than the simple Tony Head not being around thing.) But I also very much like the moment when Katrina wakes up and uses the word "rape." Up to this point, the nerds have been entirely goofy, almost comic relief, so you don't really think about the implications of their silly comic book plans. Until they're "real," and you see what the real reaction would be. Jonathan certainly hadn't considered it from that angle before (and may be re-evaluating "the twins" from Superstar, and what he did... it probably wasn't mind control, but it was certainly allowing them to make decisions on an extremely false premise). The others don't grow up at all from the realization, but it's... it's basically Draco Malfoy going from cheating at Quidditch to Half Blood Prince. I thought this one was very well done. My problem--with this and most of the season--is that I just couldn't take any joy from it.

FernWithy

yeah that breakdown at the end still gets to me. 😭😭😭

Shierra C Styver

This episode gets really deep into it, and so upfront with some of the darker aspects of the human experience, that I see a lot of people responding by rejecting it and/or blaming all the twisty-ness on Spike. But here's always been my take: Buffy's been Spike's moral compass and her influence on him is huge..shes also been steering this whole relationship, and since she's in such a bad place with herself, and dishing out all this emotional, physical and psychological abuse, the relationship has naturally taken some very twisty turns and is winding up in a toxic place. I think some fans have hard time dealing with Buffy not being the shiny human being and hero they're used to, and to reconcile it they blame Spike for dragging her down and keeping her in a dark place. BUT....Buffy's exploiting Spike's feelings for her and is using him to "self-flagellate". She's in a super dark place, she wants to hurt, she wants to be punished, she wants to escape, and she's initiated and steered this relationship to meet those ends. By this ep, she's reached a point where she's letting Spike take over and take her over, to continue her self-destruction. Spike has followed her lead, and although he hasn't picked-up on her using him like this/for this yet, he's certainly not to blame for the direction it's gone. The part of Buffy that's in control right now, wants it like this. It's an unhealthy place of her own making. We've all had those!

SpikesEcho

I've always thought this was a very underrated episode and never got the props that other massive faves had. It was so dark and fantastically acted. And as a poster said, in general, i never have thought much of the trio before this episode but this episode was the turning point. They are not demons, or vamps. They are human and have souls, and that is what makes it more interesting. To me, im more scared of bad humans than anything else.

Salv Mancuso

Except Buffy isn't spending her time "working" she's spending her time with Spike, and not telling anyone. I don't' think they resent her for having a job to earn money.

Brent Justice

Contrast this with Buffy's deep horror when she says "We're not supposed to touch the body" and realizes she has turned her Mom into a thing with a word. And for Warren: No big deal.

Steve Maxey

You were so eager to object that you forgot not to spoil stuff

Vladimir Riga

At the risk of repeating myself too many times... Liam does the best "post-game show".

UTU49

Yeah, I Iike the comparisons to Faith's self-hatred and Ted's apparent death. There are a number of subtle call-backs in this one. As Liam mentioned, when Buffy talks to Dawn it is reminiscent of the Gift.

UTU49

The "fucking nerds" stuff kinda directly leads into this, this wouldn't have the same impact without all that imo. Their disregard for women's humanity/autonomy was #1 characteristic of theirs right from the beginning. It's a huge cultural archetype started mainly in the 80s that nerdy boys can be creepy but are treated as essentially harmless, even when they commit sexual assault or rape (Sixteen Candles, Revenge of the Nerds, BBT, even shows/movies that I like play into this disgusting trope). The show took advantage of our expectation for characters like that and I wouldn't even say flipped it on its head necessarily, they just pointed right at it and called them what they are. Predators. Rapists. Dangerous.

KT

It makes a lot of sense that Buffy would open up to Tara in that way, as Tara told her in the Body that she was going to have thoughts and reactions in her grief that made her think she was losing it or like she was some kind of horrible person. That's exactly what's happening to Buffy right now, just a different trauma and is more grieving her former self. It sucks that Buffy doesn't feel capable of going to Xander or Willow, but they've both proven to be somewhat unsupportive and judgemental about certain things, especially vampires, and Buffy also wouldn't be able to continue being with Spike if she told them. So I'm glad Tara is there to be supportive and non-judgmental and Buffy doesn't have to protect Tara's feelings. The falling outs the scoobies had over the course of the series really set this up well.

KT

Just wanted to mention, since the subject came up in your afterthoughts, that I like your afterthought chats. You always find some little nuggets of wisdom that I hadn't even considered about the episodes and it makes me think about the episode, its characters, and sometimes even life in general from a different perspective. :)

Amanda S

That ending scene...even now I still cry......heartwrenching....

Patrick Lyke

Katrina is probably my favorite minor character in Buffy. She's the most self-confident and self-assured female character in the entire show from what we see. She takes crap from absolutely no one and doesn't excuse inexcusable toxic behavior. It's vomit-inducing when Warren tells (hypnotized) her he loves her. He has absolutely no idea what that sentence means. Even more gross when he goes from calling her 'her' to 'it' in a second. "Anything that can devour that much". *Brrrr....*

Alexandra Wege

Liam- I love your hatred for Warren especially. He is such a mysoginstic pig! Made my skin crawl after this ep but I always disliked him(and the trio) I also hopes he gets his. Please make it happen writers! Even though this is a really dark ep, I think it's a really good one too. I know some don't like it because how dark it got, but I thought it definitely took the show to another level. Love the Tara stuff as well, especially since she'd been away for two eps. You afterthoughts are so great Liam, keep it up. I've heard afterthoughts from others that don't even come close to how articulate you are, so well done sir! Can't wait to hear what you'll have in store for the rest of the season because you'll have tons to chew on!

Val

Forgive the rant about to come but this infuriates me. The way they talk about buffy not being around etc its like they resent her for it because she has to to work and still needs to slay so has no time for them. Willow and tara lived in that house for months while she was dead, willow still lives there, they can see she is struggling. Why did no1 else get a job!!!! They were living off Joyce's money then just dump all the debt on buffy when they bring her back.

Shauni Livingstone

awesome reaction to a very traumatic, dark and sad episode. The trio have gone from 'haha, lame losers, blergh' to being 'oh god, no...' Tara is so wholesome. I love her.

Holi117

and, as I sat here thinking and listening to Liam talk about how much he detests Warren, I realized that I typically have 2 guidelines regarding how I judge evil doers, are they demons or humans? and typically I am going to have less forgiveness for Humans, because basically humans have a soul, so the evil that demons do, well, that is just who they are. So then when I think of evil doer humans, I automatically think of Warren and Faith. And Faith has done MUCH MUCH worse things than Warren has. Just some crumbs that fell out of my head

Mark Judge

I also love that this episode shows that whilst Buffy may have realised she doesn't want to die in 'Gone' that doesn't mean she's suddenly 'Oh I'm fine now, don't want to die anymore, all better'. Not being suicidally depressed doesn't mean you're suddenly not depressed at all, and everything's just all hunky dory. This was the first show I ever saw that I think actually did a 'character has depression' storyline properly; it wasn't just 'fixed' after a few episodes, it didn't just get better after a deep and meaningful with friends and group hug; Buffy realising she wants to live doesn't just make the depression miraculously disappear. The show didn't pull any punches in showing Buffy's struggle, and also in showing, or implying, some pretty damn accurately depicted elements of depression that goes beyond just the more stereotypical 'character cries a lot and mopes around' type stuff, and I utterly adore Buffy S6 for having the guts to actually go there.

Claire Eyles

Hey, let’s stop this crazy whirlygig of fun.

Koz

Funny, I just realized that there is a strong parallel between Willow and Tara and Warren and Katrina, in that, as Liam put it "I want to be with you so I will manipulate you" as Willow clearly did this type of manipulation to Tara, to remove the anger from Tara's heart by removing her memory, and Warren basically removing all free will from Katrina

Mark Judge

Absolutely. I completely agree. What is wrong with people. The afterthoughts are always amazing, smart, and insightful. I wish I could compose my thoughts and analysis so quickly and coherently.

Lostmyshoe22

Ah yes, the episode where the nerds are funny...until they're not. I do love that they built the Trio up to just be like the most stereotypical nerd guys you could imagine, that noone takes seriously, and then 'wham' this episode knocks you for six. Another of S6's brilliance in my books.

Claire Eyles

Buffy's situation has changed and she has tried to change with it, but ignoring what she (thought she) had done and simply moving on strikes at the core of who she is. One of the differences in Spike is the change in his moral compass. He's still following Buffy's lead, but lately Buffy has been leading in a different direction. The Trio serve several purposes in different levels of the storytelling but I think this is one of their better episodes, maybe their best episode to far. Then there's Tara who thought she was delivering good news at the end, only to have Buffy break down in tears.

Bruce Trogdon

This is one of my favorites of the season as well. It's just so relentlessly dark and the performances are top notch. The scene of the Trio right after they realize Katrina is dead is stunning. Gotta give props to Danny Strong, Adam Busch and Tom Lenk. They were fantastic in this episode.

...and another thing!! Your afterthoughts are more insightful and coherent than most people's well-considered reviews!! Anyone who say differently can bite me!!!! ;-)

Carmen Chaproniere

Disgusting Little Shits is now my official name for "tHe tRiO." Tara's wholesomeness and the little bit of catharsis at the end are the episode's high points. The Disgusting Little Shits are fuckin depressing though. Spike doesn't get a pass either, for being gross af, but he's an evil creature with no soul so it's to be expected. The shits are just... Great reaction, and I appreciate your afterthoughts.

Rob Z

12 episodes of "haha, stupid nerds, they're so lame" and then they hit you in the face with this. And it's not like it came out of nowhere, there've been plenty of clues even in previous seasons. It's suddenly terrifying because it's so human, the worst side of human

Khanach

I'm so glad you love this episode as it's one of my absolute favourites. Yes, it's dark as anything but so good. I don't think it's any coincidence that Tara has the same name as the Buddhist symbol of compassion and loving-kindness because Tara is the epitome of that here. I also adore the sequence in the cemetery between Buffy and Spike, probably their most romantic moment. Wonderful reaction!

Carmen Chaproniere

Omg I'm so excited to hit play! One of my favourite episodes this season, so darkly complex and brilliant.

The things Buffy says to Spike as she's beating him to a pulp seem like she's talking about herself. Just like in the Faith and Buffy body swap in season four, when Faith was hitting Buffy in the church and essentially describing herself. So many similarities here... but Buffy, even in the depressed she's in, deals with it all much better than Faith did. Another reference point is the episode with Ted. Again, when Buffy thought she had killed a man, her instinct was to go to the police. She hasn't lost who she is at all - she's still who she was.

I see why you might say this but I don't agree. Consent is more than just a one-time word. Saying 'yes' but then changing your mind is valid and so is this... she didn't say 'no' again and she didn't give any physical signal that she didn't want him to continue. It's toxic and wrong because she is in a bad place but that doesn't mean she didn't consent. She even opened her eyes when he told her to; she was an equal party in this.

Really hard episode to watch, this one has no humor at all it's all painfull darkness..

People don't talk about this enough, but that balcony scene was rape. Buffy told Spike to stop and he kept going anyway, doesn't matter that she's strong enough to stop him, she told him no.

homoerotic 80s volleyball scene personified

Oh, I'm so ready for this! EDIT: Yep, just as fucked up and dark as I remember... Thank you for your reaction, Liam ❤❤

Abby

I hate warren, but this episode for me does highlight why the trio make for an interesting villains, they aren't motivated like Glory to look for a key so they can go home, or soulless like Angelus. A moster like Adam, they are human, and that makes it worse. What they did to Katrina was absolutely horrible.

s jaco