dukeofswindon / Angel - 3x06 “Billy” FULL REACTION

I'm watching Billy again because it's one of my favorite eps and I can't get enough that Wesley axe music scene

Juan Sanchez

2020-06-04 02:44:02 +0000 UTC

Exactly!

Vicky N

2020-04-04 13:26:27 +0000 UTC

Joss Whedon has a rare gift for writing rich, layered characters. And their flaws tend to be well-developed. I hadn't seen the pieces connected in quite that way before regarding Wesley, but the portrayal of the character (both in writing and acting) is so spot-on that they really do communicate that level of depth. From an authoritative father who he's desperate to impress, to the power structure of the Watcher's Council, Wesley was born in raised in essentially a conservative patriarchy, both at home and professionally. Going even further, it's meeting Buffy, Faith, and Cordelia (definitely the three characters with whom he had the closest contact in BtVS) and, in particular, seeing the consequences of his mistreatment toward Faith, that prompt him to part ways with the Watcher's Council, become a "rogue demon hunter", and start his new life.

ModernArtery .

2020-04-02 03:09:24 +0000 UTC

We've seen Wesley be condescending and sexist, even misogynist, at times, especially with Cordelia. "That's so typical of your kind." Rebutting Cordy’s assertion that she was top 10% of her class: "What class? Advanced bosoms?" When he says, "Speaking of saliva, where is Cordelia?" I literally get chills. I think he was reminded of that sloppy, humiliating kiss with Cordy where she wiped his saliva off her nose and chin. He was brutal with Bethany, a volatile sexual abuse survivor with PTSD. Wesley was abused by his father, and he trained to be in the Watchers Council (Misogyny, Inc.) from an early age. Wesley’s “crush” on Fred has always come off a little creepy to me, which I think stems from his insecurities and self-loathing. Wesley has a lot of trauma himself that affects how he views himself, and how he treats other people. And then at the end, Wesley is so devastated that he cannot stop crying. I do think that Billy brought out and twisted and amplified something deep down in Wesley that he was horrified to confront. I absolutely love Wesley as a character, but he has some darkness inside.

Rachael

2020-03-26 23:40:53 +0000 UTC

My initial reaction to the ending was the same, but I’ve become conflicted about Fred comforting Wesley because that is something that women, especially abused women, do. We're socialized to do that. Fred was extremely traumatized herself. I just wish we had a montage of Fred -- and maybe Cordy -- to show them coping and getting on, just a few seconds, you know? Because I do think the tragedy of Wesley being violated by Billy and possibly ruining things between him and Fred, and realizing something disturbing about himself is the correct heartbreaking note to end on. I just wish we had some balance instead of the writers' superficial, "Look, the women all saved themselves, so yay feminism."

Rachael

2020-03-26 23:19:07 +0000 UTC

It's said a couple times in this ep that Billy isn't human, but I think he's definitely coded as human. I don't know what it exactly, maybe that his power brings out a particularly human ugliness that the demon world feels somewhat separate from. Demons have been shown to be sexist/racist/homophobic at times (I'm thinking of Spike for all three), but that also feels like a human influence. But Billy ascribes almost religiously to human gender roles, it's kind of a weird way for a demon to be.

KT

2020-03-25 03:29:01 +0000 UTC

Dude that last paragraph broke my heart, you're totally right.

KT

2020-03-25 03:19:20 +0000 UTC

Also Cordelia's suffering was caused by Lilah, while Lilah's suffering was caused by Billy. So Lilah deserved that retribution.

KT

2020-03-25 03:16:02 +0000 UTC

It was also against Wesley’s will, at least from what I understand. Billy had affected Wesley and his behavior, and therefor everything (including the kiss), Wesley was doing against his own will.

Luke O’Quinn

2020-03-25 02:01:29 +0000 UTC

😂😂

Luke O’Quinn

2020-03-25 01:53:57 +0000 UTC

Awesome episode and reaction. Alexis does such a great job - I mean they all do, but Alexis was the star for me this episode. Remind me anyone, was this number 3 in the buffyverse cycle for the 'week'? Does that mean it will be 3 buffy episodes coming up next? If so, I'm obscenely excited haha.

Holi117

2020-03-24 18:04:52 +0000 UTC

Liam: Wouldn’t say that was the best first kiss ever. Oh, you mean against her will? Absolutely not, first and should be the last. Sorry just this episode has made me forever look at Wesley in a different light. Spell or not, can’t help how much it has changed the way I view Wesley. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

Ceara Abrahamsz

2020-03-23 11:55:22 +0000 UTC

Same. Same. I actually came to see if anyone else was in this boat.

Kelly Walker

2020-03-23 09:20:19 +0000 UTC

Billy has been referred to as "the misogyny demon". I find this episode to be emotionally brutal. I'm really glad we're past it. I gotta go watch something else. lol. :(

UTU49

2020-03-22 23:23:46 +0000 UTC

I think the opinion on the episode is split. I'm with you. It was really well done, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE that Lilah was the one who took him on. Even Lilah has her limit. I'm not sure about the "primordial misogyny," which seems like a stretch. I think there's a primordial violence in general, but it seems more likely that Billy's power is simply directed at men and connects to Billy's misogyny as a focus. We don't see him touch a woman or what would happen to a woman who got infected. Sadly, I'm not sure the writers were there, which is why it's not totally a favorite. That said, violence against women is common. I suspect it has more to do with exercising power over someone who is physically weaker than "you smell like a woman," though the Wesley plotline certainly highlights the sexual part of it. The "I should have power but I don't, so I will exercise what power I do have--physical power--over someone who doesn't match me on it" angle is true. I think it probably would hold true against weaker males as well--anyone have the stats on whether bullies in general are more prone to this? I very much liked Gunn giving Fred the weapon and telling her to put him down before he hurt her. That's a really excellent response. Wesley, who was most likely a victim of abuse himself, given what we've seen of his response to abuse plots, is tragic here. He becomes what he hates most and fears most. The way he used talk throughout and not just violence is telling. The psychological abuse techniques are learned. It suggests to me that he learned very early on what words can do.

FernWithy

2020-03-22 19:57:53 +0000 UTC

For me, this episode comes very close to being being brilliant, but it falls a little short on the idea that there's some kind of "primordial misogyny" inside every man and Billy's touch brings it out of them. If it was something inside Billy infecting these guys, the episode would be one of my favorites. Or if it was just a generalized violence inside of everyone that Billy brought out, I would also be fine with that. But as a woman with many men in my life who I love, the idea that every man has this inherent "primordial misogyny" inside of them is just really offensive to me.

peggin

2020-03-22 15:24:13 +0000 UTC

Am I the only one hanging on by a thread as I wait for Buffy 6x07 because we, as a universe, just NEED it? I like this episode, but was legit distracted by that thought the entire time, lol

Renee Pope-Munro

2020-03-22 05:26:30 +0000 UTC

I absolutely love this episode as well. I thought of it as Billy taking the power and control away from both men & women. In his sadism he liked to make both genders victoms of their perceived weakness or strength.

Christine Ester

2020-03-21 23:12:18 +0000 UTC

I never saw that as the message. It's like any bad character trait, like hate or the ability to do violence. It's in you and the quest in life is to become a better person. It's never justifiable, it's never OK. It's a sign of a weak person, mentally and morally.

Scott Rabie

2020-03-21 18:11:27 +0000 UTC

I very agree to this.

Hans Olav

2020-03-21 16:12:20 +0000 UTC

I love the acting. I appreciate the fact that they avoid making Gunn the aggressor. I love the badass females characters. I can’t stand the premise of the “primordial misogyny that exists in every men”. In other words misogyny is inherent into being a male, therefore when men act on it, it’s justifiable.

Vicky N

2020-03-21 15:02:21 +0000 UTC

Okay as someone who was in an abusive relationship at one point, I absolutely hate this episode - and not because it's triggering, or anything like that, but because it's so inaccurate in its portrayals of abuse that it's actually insulting to me. Also a show can have strong female characters without resorting to the 'All men are pigs given the right circumstances' trope.

Claire Eyles

2020-03-21 11:53:10 +0000 UTC

Whedon wrote both scenes in Lilah's apartment, so he's responsible for two things that people love and hate: the Cordy / Lilah shoe showdown, and the "primordial misogyny" line.

Rachael

2020-03-21 04:55:43 +0000 UTC

I don't know if this episode is my favorite episode ever, but it's definitely in the top 3. However, Wesley's performance is my favorite. Him turning dark and his commitment to it was brilliant acting. And also the whole Shining nod was amazing. I've been waiting for you to react to this episode for quite a while.

Ryan Martinez

2020-03-21 04:22:46 +0000 UTC

I swear I’ve read somewhere that Whedon or one of the other main producer-writers of the show wrote that Cordelia-Lilah scene, without taking credit for it.

Richard Lucas

2020-03-21 01:52:24 +0000 UTC

That is heartbreaking, I hope he will be ok.

Richard Lucas

2020-03-21 01:50:45 +0000 UTC

side note- Gavin, played by Daniel Dae Kim, has recently announced he has contracted Covid-19- He is over 50, but in good health, so, hopefully he will be ok

Mark Judge

2020-03-21 00:30:04 +0000 UTC

One of my favorite episodes of the entire show. It makes me upset and uncomfortable, but I LOVE it. Very much like The Body, in that regard. So good. Oh, and this is where I started shipping Wesley and Fred. The end scene where he's so sad and she comforts him? RIGHT UP MY ALLEY

Abby

2020-03-20 20:24:49 +0000 UTC

The dualing visits to Lilah's apartment are great. Angel comes across as just another man blaming her for what's going on and now he's going to do something about it. Since Lilah is to blame, Cordelia states it matter-of-factly and basically wants to know what Lilah is going to do about it. LOL, Wesley got "Home Aloned"!!! Every character (at least the male ones) seems to constantly forget that while Fred is not physically imposing, Fred is also not helpless. As much as I would have liked to see Cordelia kill Billy, I think that the way it was done fits better. Cordelia has killed demons before but her role is mainly one of "vision" and encouragement. She helps keep Angel on task and doing the right thing. Here she reaches out to Lilah with some of the same encouragement and both come through in the end.

Bruce Trogdon

2020-03-20 17:56:32 +0000 UTC

This episode is amazing, but it is so hard to watch.

homoerotic 80s volleyball scene personified

2020-03-20 17:00:48 +0000 UTC

Willow: So why is this happening? Giles: Billy. Xander: Well that explanation was shorter than usual. It's Billy! Who's Billy?

KT

2020-03-20 16:14:27 +0000 UTC

This episode is so great but it hurts to watch, for so many reasons. There are such great story and character beats but they come with implications that make me uncomfortable. For example, I'm glad that Fred made it clear at the end that she didn't blame Wesley, but it makes me uncomfortable (even with the extenuating context and all the nuance written in) to see a woman who was a victim of abuse apologizing to her abuser. And yet it's complicated because Wesley is a victim too, since Billy's powers are a violation of the men he affects. It's just all so gross -- as great a piece of writing and directing and acting as it is. And I don't like what it says about Wesley that this could be something that's inside of him no matter how good a person he is. I watched this video on an NYC bus and I honk-laughed right out loud at "G-ddammit, Baby Driver." The actor's name is Justin Shilton, but he DOES look a lot like Ansel Elgort (not nearly as tall, but then who is).

Pam Nail

2020-03-20 14:35:59 +0000 UTC

One of my favourites. I love that the 3 women characters come out as the heroes here. I was so worried that the writers were going to have Angel kill Billy which would have ruined the whole episode for me but I think Lilah was the right one to do it in the end because as much as I love to hate her, she's a great character and I would have lost respect for her if she had done nothing but it was Cordy's speech that encouraged her to do it so to me they both took Billy out. Also my heart broke for Wesley at the end but what a terrifying villain he would make. Great episode

Donna

2020-03-20 13:56:08 +0000 UTC

whoop i get to watch a reaction b4 work rather than after 💃 feeling i might regret this decision tonight 🙄🤣

CeNedra

2020-03-20 13:22:00 +0000 UTC

I haven't genuinely cried over this episode as far as I can remember but holy crap Wesley at the end broke me. This episode for me is very love and hate. The intensity and high stakes shake me to the core every time. It is hard to watch and but such a good episode. It is not one I rewatch too often because of the Wesley and Fred scenes. They are so scary and intense. Gunn is fantastic in that scene. I am glad Lilah killed him, she needed that closure and I think the "helplessness" speech from Cordy was crucial in Lilah taking a stand. Cordy and Angel training scenes are amazing!!! As much as I love the last 2 Buffyverse reactions I am really excited for the next round of shows because they some of my favourites of the series.

Mel Saville

2020-03-20 13:09:44 +0000 UTC

SO weird, this episode was so good, but I do NOT remember it. At all. This must be only the second time seeing it. Some things make more sense now in the story-line. Great reaction, as usual!

KiwiJello

2020-03-20 13:08:39 +0000 UTC

A superb episode of television.... beautifully written, directed and acted.... definitely one of the show's high points

SpikesEcho

2020-03-20 12:06:21 +0000 UTC

This episode is pretty incredible, and how very incredibly uncomfortable it makes me feel to watch it kinda speaks volumes as well. You know an episode is good when it makes you feel conflicted (Not in the story telling or acting, but the story being told itself) like it does most people.

Jayna

2020-03-20 11:59:39 +0000 UTC

This episode is so hard for me to watch, emotionally. But I do agree that it is a very well done episode.

AngelicMouseGirl

2020-03-20 11:55:30 +0000 UTC

I totally agree - this is one of the best episodes in the series. I remember when it came out that some of the male fans threw up a fuss at how the ep implied every man has their own bit of misogyny, no matter how well buried - ironically enough, a lot of them were the "nice guys" on the comms, the ones who felt like they related to Wesley, as he usually is - and it just felt so stark to me, that they couldn't see it, their insistence that Wesley would never have been overcome in that fashion. (Funnily, most of them flat-out said that Wesley's role in this should have gone to Gunn, unlike your reaction, which I was very grateful to see.) I always find myself particularly chilled by the domestic violence joke Wesley tells while throwing Fred against the staircase. It's an old joke, one most of us have heard before, and maybe because of that, it's one of those things that sort of splinters Wes for me here; I can see him being, idk, controlled by darker impulses while under the influence of Billy's blood, but it's easy to excuse it as "not really Wesley" until he says that, if that makes any sense. Anyway, this episode very much serves as an identifier for me, in regards to men. My husband's reaction was very much like yours; the "nice guys" who have objections to the themes and who was given which roles to play, I'm unabashedly wary of. Not for nothing, I also love that you ticked on how the women saved themselves in this. The theme of that kills me in the best way, a counterbalance to the show At Large, with so many male characters at the foreground. And the acting was spot-on as well. I very rarely pick standalone eps as my favorites, but this one is terrifyingly brilliant, and remains on my Angel top 10 list to this day. Fantastic reaction, thank you! Can't wait to see your next! 😊

Bixgirl1

2020-03-20 11:30:43 +0000 UTC

I love this episode but I also hate this episode. It's done so well but I also get so incredibly uncomfortable and jumpy and just...feel so gross for the whole episode. Although, like you said, this was a great episode for the women of the show. And also for Gunn. I think I'm okay with Lilah being the one to finally kill Billy, if only for the fact that she would be the one to pull the trigger and move on. I know Cordelia is an incredibly strong person but I'm not sure how she'd deal with taking a human life, no matter how much of an absolute piece of burning dog shit Billy was. Plus, she was a victim to Billy's powers so it feels right that she got to do it. Ugh, such a great episode. Two of my favorites right in a row!

Ritchie

2020-03-20 11:09:06 +0000 UTC

"Happy"

Hans Olav

2020-03-20 10:23:40 +0000 UTC

Here's Billy!

Sherlyn

2020-03-20 10:12:16 +0000 UTC

Angel - 3x06 “Billy” FULL REACTION

Comments

I'm watching Billy again because it's one of my favorite eps and I can't get enough that Wesley axe music scene

Exactly!

Dude that last paragraph broke my heart, you're totally right.

Also Cordelia's suffering was caused by Lilah, while Lilah's suffering was caused by Billy. So Lilah deserved that retribution.

It was also against Wesley’s will, at least from what I understand. Billy had affected Wesley and his behavior, and therefor everything (including the kiss), Wesley was doing against his own will.

😂😂

Awesome episode and reaction. Alexis does such a great job - I mean they all do, but Alexis was the star for me this episode. Remind me anyone, was this number 3 in the buffyverse cycle for the 'week'? Does that mean it will be 3 buffy episodes coming up next? If so, I'm obscenely excited haha.

Same. Same. I actually came to see if anyone else was in this boat.

Billy has been referred to as "the misogyny demon". I find this episode to be emotionally brutal. I'm really glad we're past it. I gotta go watch something else. lol. :(

Am I the only one hanging on by a thread as I wait for Buffy 6x07 because we, as a universe, just NEED it? I like this episode, but was legit distracted by that thought the entire time, lol

I absolutely love this episode as well. I thought of it as Billy taking the power and control away from both men & women. In his sadism he liked to make both genders victoms of their perceived weakness or strength.

I never saw that as the message. It's like any bad character trait, like hate or the ability to do violence. It's in you and the quest in life is to become a better person. It's never justifiable, it's never OK. It's a sign of a weak person, mentally and morally.

I very agree to this.

Whedon wrote both scenes in Lilah's apartment, so he's responsible for two things that people love and hate: the Cordy / Lilah shoe showdown, and the "primordial misogyny" line.

I swear I’ve read somewhere that Whedon or one of the other main producer-writers of the show wrote that Cordelia-Lilah scene, without taking credit for it.

That is heartbreaking, I hope he will be ok.

side note- Gavin, played by Daniel Dae Kim, has recently announced he has contracted Covid-19- He is over 50, but in good health, so, hopefully he will be ok

One of my favorite episodes of the entire show. It makes me upset and uncomfortable, but I LOVE it. Very much like The Body, in that regard. So good. Oh, and this is where I started shipping Wesley and Fred. The end scene where he's so sad and she comforts him? RIGHT UP MY ALLEY

This episode is amazing, but it is so hard to watch.

Willow: So why is this happening? Giles: Billy. Xander: Well that explanation was shorter than usual. It's Billy! Who's Billy?

whoop i get to watch a reaction b4 work rather than after 💃 feeling i might regret this decision tonight 🙄🤣

SO weird, this episode was so good, but I do NOT remember it. At all. This must be only the second time seeing it. Some things make more sense now in the story-line. Great reaction, as usual!

A superb episode of television.... beautifully written, directed and acted.... definitely one of the show's high points

This episode is pretty incredible, and how very incredibly uncomfortable it makes me feel to watch it kinda speaks volumes as well. You know an episode is good when it makes you feel conflicted (Not in the story telling or acting, but the story being told itself) like it does most people.

This episode is so hard for me to watch, emotionally. But I do agree that it is a very well done episode.

"Happy"

Here's Billy!

More Creators

Angel - 3x06 “Billy” FULL REACTION

Comments

I'm watching Billy again because it's one of my favorite eps and I can't get enough that Wesley axe music scene

Exactly!

Dude that last paragraph broke my heart, you're totally right.

Also Cordelia's suffering was caused by Lilah, while Lilah's suffering was caused by Billy. So Lilah deserved that retribution.

It was also against Wesley’s will, at least from what I understand. Billy had affected Wesley and his behavior, and therefor everything (including the kiss), Wesley was doing against his own will.

😂😂

Awesome episode and reaction. Alexis does such a great job - I mean they all do, but Alexis was the star for me this episode. Remind me anyone, was this number 3 in the buffyverse cycle for the 'week'? Does that mean it will be 3 buffy episodes coming up next? If so, I'm obscenely excited haha.

Same. Same. I actually came to see if anyone else was in this boat.

Billy has been referred to as "the misogyny demon". I find this episode to be emotionally brutal. I'm really glad we're past it. I gotta go watch something else. lol. :(

Am I the only one hanging on by a thread as I wait for Buffy 6x07 because we, as a universe, just NEED it? I like this episode, but was legit distracted by that thought the entire time, lol

I absolutely love this episode as well. I thought of it as Billy taking the power and control away from both men &amp; women. In his sadism he liked to make both genders victoms of their perceived weakness or strength.

I never saw that as the message. It's like any bad character trait, like hate or the ability to do violence. It's in you and the quest in life is to become a better person. It's never justifiable, it's never OK. It's a sign of a weak person, mentally and morally.

I very agree to this.

Whedon wrote both scenes in Lilah's apartment, so he's responsible for two things that people love and hate: the Cordy / Lilah shoe showdown, and the "primordial misogyny" line.

I swear I’ve read somewhere that Whedon or one of the other main producer-writers of the show wrote that Cordelia-Lilah scene, without taking credit for it.

That is heartbreaking, I hope he will be ok.

side note- Gavin, played by Daniel Dae Kim, has recently announced he has contracted Covid-19- He is over 50, but in good health, so, hopefully he will be ok

One of my favorite episodes of the entire show. It makes me upset and uncomfortable, but I LOVE it. Very much like The Body, in that regard. So good. Oh, and this is where I started shipping Wesley and Fred. The end scene where he's so sad and she comforts him? RIGHT UP MY ALLEY

This episode is amazing, but it is so hard to watch.

Willow: So why is this happening? Giles: Billy. Xander: Well that explanation was shorter than usual. It's Billy! Who's Billy?

whoop i get to watch a reaction b4 work rather than after 💃 feeling i might regret this decision tonight 🙄🤣

SO weird, this episode was so good, but I do NOT remember it. At all. This must be only the second time seeing it. Some things make more sense now in the story-line. Great reaction, as usual!

A superb episode of television.... beautifully written, directed and acted.... definitely one of the show's high points

This episode is pretty incredible, and how very incredibly uncomfortable it makes me feel to watch it kinda speaks volumes as well. You know an episode is good when it makes you feel conflicted (Not in the story telling or acting, but the story being told itself) like it does most people.

This episode is so hard for me to watch, emotionally. But I do agree that it is a very well done episode.

"Happy"

Here's Billy!

More Creators

I absolutely love this episode as well. I thought of it as Billy taking the power and control away from both men & women. In his sadism he liked to make both genders victoms of their perceived weakness or strength.