Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 4x19 "New Moon Rising" FULL REACTION

I love this reaction so so much. When it comes to Riley, you have to remember that he hasn't had any experience with supernatural creatures who were not evil (except Demon-Giles, but that doesn't count) and the Initiative programmed him to think all supers are evil. I get the irritation with him here,. Just trying to add another perspective.

Raven Dark

Mark Oshiro definitely saw the possibility of something between Willow and Tara in that scene in "Hush". But he's gay, so he sees things straight people don't. No footage as most of his reactions were lost (other than most of Season 6 and all of 7, I think), but he reviewed the whole series in writing as well, episode by episode. With anything from the 90s, he usually doubted that any homoerotic overtones would lead to something. He was so used to being disappointed because TV shows so often teased a same-sex thing but never went there. Which is problematic in itself - using homoeroticism as a fetish for straight people but refusing any overt displays of actual love between same-sex people because *immoral*. When you think about it, it's thoroughly gross. Anyway, link to his review of Hush here. No spoilers for anything beyond it, probably not even in the comments but proceed with caution if you read them. It's an old review and someone could easily have come along and dumped a load of spoilers in a comment. I don't know if Mark's moderators still moderate comments on reviews that are that old. http://markwatches.net/reviews/2012/03/mark-watches-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-s04e10-hush/ His reaction to Willow and Tara moving the vending machine together was: "I have feelings about Tara and Willow and I don’t know what to do about them. Is this real? Like please don’t let this be taken away from me because that was the most gay queer gay scene ever and I need it. Right now."

Hazel Angus

Okay.. I re-watched your reaction to this one mainly because of your excited reaction to Oz's appearance but also because of alison's amazing performance in this episode. I have to say though I felt a bit bad about how everyone reacted to Riley in this one.. I'm not a Riley hater, if anything I feel a bit sorry for him as he's obviously way out of his depth on so many levels and his reference to Willow and being into dangerous guys wrong but i don't think he deserves the crap he gets for it! Hang on b4 you all hate me.. ☺ Riley has no experience of this world except for what he has seen in a few months and every demon he has encountered so far has been evil! You said yourself that he should listen to Buffy as she knows better.. how does she? What demon hasn't been evil that she has met? I can think of only one and that was Whistler in Season 2.. Angel is an anomaly, he has a soul so he is not evil. When that soul was taken from him he was the same as any other demon.. We can't really include Oz as he isn't a demon, he's a shape-shifter, he tries to combat that part of him by restraining himself when it's a full moon but when he gets free he's no longer Oz, he's also not evil, he's just an animal with no lingering human qualities which has been shown every time there has been a wolf storyline. We adore Oz and Willow so it's understandable why we automatically defend them against Riley here but it's not really Riley's fault. He's actually more right than wrong about Demons.. We have seen many types of Demon in the first 4 seasons and apart from the one exception they have all been evil.. even if we love them (Spike) they are still evil, they kill people, innocent people! When Riley says "does it matter" to Buffy that was just bad timing as he literally just heard a friend of his had been killed so can't really be expected to be rational at this point. Buffy also is blinded by Angel which she shouldn't be as there is no comparison between Angel and other vampires due to his soul. She never hesitates to kill any other vampire because she knows they are killers without exception. So what I think I'm saying is that Riley should be judged on his actions in the last part of this episode and not the remarks in the first 30 mins, he has turned his whole life and belief system on its head and I think this shows us he isn't a bigot or unable to see things from different perspectives.. we were judging him out of our love for Oz and Willow but forgetting Riley really didn't know any different, and neither does Buffy!

I always forget how much I enjoy this episode. There are a few little things that aren't quite perfect, but its okay lol. The ending is so bittersweet because I loved Willow and Oz together, but I also find the new love blossoming with Willow and Tara to be so sweet and beautiful, you know? Great reaction!

Holi117

I'm crying laughing, hahaha! "aaaaaah! quick, write notes... i'm dribbling with excitement, oh god I've forgotten every character's name!" haha! you're hilarious! I love it!

Holi117

I love Tillow but Willow&Oz will always be my favourite Willow ship. What I love about this episode is that both Tara and Oz wanted Willow to be happy and it gave a beautiful closure for Willow and Oz.

Sarah McKinlay

Great reactions and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Angela Colon

I CANT WAIT FOR THE YOKO FACTORR

colton

Great reaction (as always) for a beautiful and hard episode. Don't have much to say, but wow, Alyson Hannigan is incredible. She is able to crush me each time she cry and is a BIG part of why Willow is my favorite fictional character ever. sorry for my poor english.

LIAM : THE ORIGINAL PART 2 TO PART ONE OF MY LONG HISTORY AND CONTEXT OF QUEER REPRESENTATION - LOL! AND HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE YOU BEING THE 1ST REACTOR I'VE SEEN TO EVEN NOTICE THIS RELATIONSHIP. ------- So yeah - I’m so happy Liam that you realised back in ep 16 that Willow and Tara were actually in a relationship - and that you noticed that something was going on between them before that. Now this might sound really obvious. I mean it’s blatantly obvious to me, and surely must be to many watchers? Or so I always thought. But then it’s blatantly obvious to me since the moment they touched hands to do the spell in Hush. The way they look at each other !! And the way their hands touch! When doing the spell to move the drinks machine. It is SO sensuous and hot. So much sexual tension! I saw this the first time I watched it. But I don’t think I’ve seen a reactor yet who has watched that and gone - “wow, look at the sexual tension, sensuality there! Look at that smouldering look! Something is going on here.” I’m always disappointed! And with heterosexual couples, because that is the expected norm - in shows and films everywhere, including on Buffy - people think something is happening and see possible /likely relationships just from a look. What shocked and really disappointed me, was how many reactors made NO comment on Willow & Tara, or recognised that they were in a relationship until this episode!!! Not when Tara says - “I am, you know .. […] .. Yours” Or when they do THAT spell together in episode 16 ( to go to the astral plane and find where Buffy is). I had a comment on ep 16 that has disappeared - must find it and repost. I said something Liam about your comment on the juxtapositon of that extremely sensual spell with the Buffy/Riley sex scenes and how that made it obvious that the spell was a visual metaphor. And that also - well, you had to avert your eyes Liam! The spell was that sexual - and crikey were they both so orgasmic doing that spell - especially Willow of course when she falls back on the cushions. So it’s not just the juxtaposition! This is not a spoiler to say - that Joss and his team were NOT ALLOWED by the network to show Willow and Tara kissing at this point, let alone anything else. ( will not say if or when this is lifted - or if they stay together long enough for the ban to have been lifted !). Hence the candle being blown out in this episode, and the very sensual spell in ep 16. Four quotes from Joss - there is one somewhere that says that ep 16 spell scene was the most sensual/sexy scene he’d ever done ( at that point) - but can’t find it. I won’t put the article links, cos some are from May 2000 after season 4 is over. There’s a whole page on Buffyguide.com with these quotes & more, plus ones from Alison and Amber, all from Jan to May 2000. BTW - this is all historical context for what it was like for Joss & the writing/directing team to get a queer/lesbian relationship on the screen - because everyone watching in 2000/2001 knew this, but you don’t have that context. This is NOT to ‘PROMOTE’ the Willow/Tara relationship or try to sway you - that I’m writing a lot about it that is. It’s about Btvs being bold and breaking ground with this relationship. Joss Whedon, interviewed on Fresh Air on National Public Radio Host: David Bianculli May 9, 2000 “The network obviously has issues. They don't want any kissing -- that's one thing that they've stipulated -- and they're a little nervous about it. They haven't interfered at all with what we've tried to do and yet they've raised a caution about it. And at the same time you have people, the moment Tara appeared on the scene, saying, 'Why aren't they gay enough? They're not gay enough! You need to make them more gay.' “ Joss Whedon, from TV Guide Online article, May 8, 2000 Joss Whedon: "On a [bigger] network, you don't have an opportunity with a same-sex relationship to show the kind of graphic coupling that you do with, say, Buffy and [boyfriend] Riley," Whedon tells TV Guide Online. "So you have to use your imagination, and to me it's the best thing that could have happened to us. It forces you to come up with something that is a little more primal and I think much sexier than if we were allowed to do anything we wanted." Whedon initially put this ‘titillating’ strategy to work in February when Willow and Tara cast a spell. The sexually-charged ceremony featured candles, hand-holding, moaning and an orgasmic climax to rival Meg Ryan's famous When Harry Met Sally... diner scene. "I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about," Whedon says with a laugh, adding, "It was sensual and physical, but, by necessity, tasteful. It made me very happy that we were able to do that." ['titillating'- look at that derogatory homophobic word about their beautiful love! Shows what the media were like in 2000. The quote marks are added by me Lol.] Joss Whedon at the Bronze May 4, 2000 “Let's talk sweaty. And censors. (cabbages and kings is a different chat room). Are we forced to cut things between Willow and Tara? Well, there are things the network will not allow us to show. As for example kissing. Does this bother me? Actually, no, and I'll tell you why. Restrictions are often a writer's best friend -- they force him to be CREATIVE. The spell scene in 16 was on one level a sex scene, on another level not. It was (barely) subtle compared to smootchin' and rompin'. The blowing out of the candle was lovely and poetical, as opposed to the more pedestrian smooctchies. Look at Buffy and Riley. All their sheeted shenanegins leave most people cold compared to the tension between Willow and Tara (not EVERYONE, but...) Part of what made Buffy and ANGEL so hot was what they COULDN'T DO, because frustration is sexy and the imagination is sexier than anything […]. Buffy and Riley get to have an active sex life, we get to (tastefully) show it, and it's not as compelling. So go, censors. We love working harder. Makes us better writers.” Joss Whedon at the Bronze May 4, 2000 “Okay, let's do this. For real: how @#$%&ing disappointed was I in the American public after Tuesday night? Of course I realize the rabidly homophobic posting contingent represents a smaller percentage of Americans than the EVIL GAYS they were posting about, but that's not it. It's the fact that everyone went nuts about it THIS WEEK, when this has clearly been going on for MONTHS? Did anyone see the spell scene in episode 16? Hello? It's the not the bigotry that offends me, it's the lack of filmic insight. Okay, and the bigotry. But of course there were just as many voices raised in support of the arc as against, which was swell. Plus one post from a gay or questioning teen saying the show helped them is worth six hundred hate letters.” ——————— - I REALLY hope that you don’t think this is spoilery at all Liam. Those of us watching at the time had worked out that it’s all metaphor. AND we knew that actually showing anything other than holding hands was taboo and banned. So, this is all giving you the needed CONTEXT. The problem with many young reactors in their 20s now is that they expect a kiss, or sexual scene or obvious ‘asking out on a date’ even to be shown on screen in any LGBTQIA+ relationship. As it USUALLY is nowadays ( apart form all the annoying queerbaiting). So when it is not openly and blatantly shown, many people are not even noticing until this episode what is going on between Willow & Tara - shocking!! (Shocking because the slightest possibility of two straight people having a thing for each other is always noticed and commented on loads.) Or reactors say on this ep that they thought something was maybe going on, but never even gave a hint that they thought so. So partly it’s about not understanding the history of queers on TV and how things were banned 19/20 years ago. But despite this it’s still really obvious for anyone who has eyes to see. As you do Liam. I was so happy that you were picking up on it, and by ep 16 saying yes - they’re definitely together ( or something like that). Annoyingly , you are the first one I’ve seen do that. Annoyingly, because the other reason that people are blind as to what is happening - is heteronormativity. It’s like when I was growing up - and still mostly today - heterosexuality is so normalised that it is EXPECTED. Both on screen and growing up we are expected to be straight & cis. When it comes to realising what they are seeng on screen, it seems that even today, many cis het people can’t even recognise what they are seeing - can’t see subtext, and can’t see a relationship developing until they are hit in the face with it. And that is all part of us lacking visibility. It why back in 2000 people didn’t send in all their complaints til this episode. And you can see Joss was saying then - are you blind?! LOL I’m glad Liam, that though you didn’t notice at the time, that looking back you can see the connection Willow & Tara had in the Hush spell scene. For us queer people - well, we notice the subtext, and subtle building relationships of course, because we are more aware of queer people’s existence, obvs. But, also because of the history of film. Back in the 20s to early 30s when film started, they was practically no censoring, and there are some old films that were very progressive - Marlene Dietrich as a lesbian in 1930 film Morrocco or Greta Garbo in Queen Christina 1933 ( gender non conforming queen, possibly trans, kissing a woman) for example - and much more openly sexual for all sexualities, than films from even decades later. Then in 1934 heavy censoring began with the Hays Code ( from 1930 but not enforced til 1934). Not only could no nudity be shown, but a man and woman could not be shown in bed together, depiction of mixed race relationships were banned (!!!) - and ‘Any inference of sex perversion’. Which meant LGBTQ+. Even after the code ended in 1968 and film ratings came in, queer relationships were extremely rarely depicted on film, they were only hinted at, usually, or had extremely negative consequences and punishment. I remember watching a film a bout a lesbian teacher - 60s I think, it was black and white - where the whole film was about her ‘lesbian affair’ and how she was punished for this and had ‘dire consequences’ - and yet they only very subtly hinted at whet she even ‘did’ what they were even telling the story about - no use of word lesbian, or explicitly explaining let alone showing that she was in a relationship with a woman. So whenever anything queer was shown, often even in the 70s & 80s - it was all subtext. So we queers often learned to read subtext in film and spot subtle signs of queer relationships on screen. Whereas straight people often stayed frickin blind. But it’s bizarre that it’s still too often the case today - like all the straight people that say that queerbaiting doesn’t exist. OR DON”T NOTICE WILLOW/TARA Relationship!!! GRRR ARRGGGH :D The other point from this censorship stuff - anyone who watches old films & tv - will have noticed how sex is never shown, or even a man and a woman sitting or lying on a bed together. Instead, at this point in the ‘romance’ either the camera slides away to another object or scene - or the screen goes black. So everyone came to understand, that when a romantic couple are on screen being romantic or kissing and the screen goes black - that this signifies that they are going to have sex now. Screen going to black on a couple = sex in old films. Not always at the final scene of the film either - was often be a scene in the middle. NOW - I’m not being spoilery by talking about this, as I’m NOT saying - ’this means that Willow and Tara had sex and this is their first time having sex’. But - it is one interpretation of the final scene going to black given the scene/context. A very likely one and heavily implied - but still, up to the viewer. ( Though may not be their first time - ‘The Spell’ - might be a metaphor for their first time as they couldn’t show it). When or if they ever get the network to get rid of the ban and are able to show anything I’m not saying. But - I think it’s very important to have this context to understand this end scene and ‘The Spell’. Especially why so much metaphor was used. Many younger people now - well I get the impression that many don’t watch as many old movies form the 30s to the late 50s ( things did get a bit more lax in the early 60s) - as people my age did when we were younger or as kids. Old films were on the tv all the time - but now of course we stream and binge and pick what we wanna watch. I’m curious Liam as to whether you’ve watched many old films pre 1960s? But I think without having watched a TON of old films - if you haven’t studied film theory then this context gets lost - especially knowing what a ‘fade to black’ usually connotates. So I am only giving here the context that most of us had when watching this in the year 2000/2001 - if we were adults when watching at least, maybe for some kids too. Yup - so context given - and now open to interpretation as it’s not made explicit. But either way - WONDERFULLY sweet and romantic and glorious. IMHO !! :D :D And have to say again - I have been SO happy that your are not a blinkered straight person and could see the relationship - but I felt I really had to wait until this episode when Willow confirms to others that her & Tara are a thing, to talk about it.

Bellatronics

Welcome to Liam's Amazing Display of Unearthy Sounds! I really enjoyed this one, definitely not "interesting"...🤣

Khanach

I'm not straight (reppin' the B in LGBT here), and when the show first aired I honestly did not realise where they were going with Willow and Tara's relationship until this episode, and neither did a lot of LGBT folks I knew at the time. It wasn't because we didn't see a same sex relationship as being okay or that somehow we thought it wasn't acceptable to show that, it's just the idea that a US network television series would actually show a same sex relationship in such a normalised and respectful way was absolutely unthinkable to us at the time. Here in Australia we'd already had the first gay character, first trans character, first bisexual character and first same sex kiss on TV by 1974, but the US? No way, did not see it coming.

Claire Eyles

Patreon has been deleting!!! Re-Post. I will post part 2 in several hours - then it might not get deleted again. I did the thing I do quite often - of making notes on your reaction and writing a long post. But before I post that, I have to post this first. [This WAS first!!] It’s all about Willow and Tara for very important reasons - but Liam, hopefully you’ll remember from previous posts that I love Oz, and loved him & Willow together. This episode means so much to me - Willow’s coming out episode. And the one where it is fully and officially confirmed that Willow and Tara are in a relationship. However obvious it may have been to many of us beforehand ( more on that in a bit.) You say about how far we’ve come since then Liam, and how a relationship between two women would’ve still been quite taboo at the time. Well, this was the first time ever that a relationship between two women was shown on network TV in the USA. [ Well, the first time it wasn’t a quick fling ‘experiment’ that the character quickly got over, and/or that wasn’t a slight mention between minor characters. The first time a woman who is a main cast member was in a queer relationship on the small screen.] And the first time for me, watching a queer relationship bewteen 2 women. I had only come out the year before. At this time, when Willow & Tara’s relationship was airing in season 4 - I was being told by my mother that I was a sinner but she ‘loved me anyway’, my sister (who I’d been close to) called me an abomination in the sight of god ( and her husband was trying to stop her having any contact with me and break up our sibling bond because he saw me as a filthy dirty sinner who was a dangerous bad influence), and my uncle - who I’d been very close to as a child and in my early adult years - disowned me. My other sister, at this time and for many years after, ‘banned me’ from allowing her kids to know that I’m queer. I sometimes forget actually all that I was going through at this time, and just think about how it was just after I came out. I feel quite emotional now thinking about it. So the absolutely beautiful and very naturally portrayed relationship between Willow and Tara meant so much to me and still does. Crikey I’m tearing up. We had actually had lesbian relationships shown in British TV before that - first one was on Brookside in 1994. Well - so I thought until I googled to check the year! I just found out that the first lesbian kiss on British TV was in 1974 in a one off half hour drama that is now available to watch again since 2016 ( first time since it aired). Link: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/jun/16/bbc-stream-1974-show-girl-alison-steadman-first-lesbian-kiss-uk-television-pride It had a warning before they aired it!! However: “The first pre-watershed lesbian kiss was between Anna Friel and Nicola Stephenson on Brookside in 1994.” And also, it was the first on going relationship between two women in a soap opera, rather than a one off drama. Tragically though, 20 years later in 2014 people were still complaining to networks about gay/queer kisses on British tv. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/jun/16/bbc-stream-1974-show-girl-alison-steadman-first-lesbian-kiss-uk-television-pride However, I had never watched Brookside, and I’m not sure that at this time (2000) I even knew about that kiss/relationship. I’d seen the gay kiss between 2 men on Eastenders in 1989. But that wasn’t a great relationship. Also, it wasn’t really accepted by anyone in the Square for a long time, and was not beautiful and sweet like Willow & Tara - or had as much attention since so many cast member s in Eastenders. Plus, I had too much indoctrinated internalised homophobia in my teenage years to appreciate it anyways. There was a lesbian kiss in 1994 - which I didn’t see cos I wasn’t even in the country, and couldn’t watch the BBC or any other UK channel in Uzbekistan - nothing but cotton harvest updates, Russian films and Uzbek dancing on Uzbek tv from 1993-96! ( lol). There was a LOT of negative backlash against the queer kisses on Eastenders in the 80s & 90s, and even in the noughties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_characters_in_soap_operas#United_Kingdom Ok, so a lot of those links are about first kisses. We’ve not seen Willow and Tara kiss. But it was the first relationship between two women that I watched on TV. ( This ep 2nd May 2000 in US, March 2001 UK - but I - uh-hum , watched it way before that ….). When other reactors got here, I meant to write about this then - on ASR’s reaction mostly and Van’s. But my mental health - especially high levels of dissociation - mean that I often don’t have the energy to write about things that affect me a lot or take a lot of emotional energy. And the reactions didn’t coincide with good mental health days. I absolutely love this relationship between Willow and Tara - and I’m talking about how I felt about it at this point, not anything future ep related. I adored Willow from the start like you Liam, I love Tara - think she an absolute Cinnamon Roll - though the term wasn’t around then!! :D And think they are absolutely adorable together. I always loved Oz. And I loved Willow and Oz’s relationship, and was heart broken when they broke up, and he left. But it didn’t last as long as for you Liam. Cos the moment Hush aired, Willow and Tara was everything to me. I still felt those torn feelings when this amazing ep aired, and felt all the emotions for Oz being back, and Willow’s torn feelings and why now. But for me it was throughout the ep - “no, it’s too late now. If it had been earlier I’d be all for Oz & Willow back together again, but now - I just need her to choose Tara.” And she did. I still tear up nearly every time i watch this episode ending. I really appreciate how much you love Willow/ Oz Liam - I did once too. And I still love them. But for me, it’s Willow and Tara all the way. NO EXPECTATIONS for you to ever prefer Willow/Tara of course !!! But I felt the need to share what this relationship meant to me and still does. It was hugely significant and emotional for thousands of queer women and many other LGBTQ+ people all around the world at the time - this is an experience I shared with many. Next part in a separate post - coz otherwise this will be so long that Patreon will delete it. They might delete the 2nd one anyways, cos of multiple long posts. :) The 2nd part is about so many cis straight reactors not EVEN NOTICING that Willow & Tara are in a relationship until THIS episode - and how I love that it didn’t take you that long Liam, and how this relates to queer visibility.

Bellatronics

Joss Whedon: I have a great idea! Actors: Duck and cover!

Richard Lucas

Did you sneak a microphone into Joss Whedon’s office? I feel like Joss needs a mustache to twirl?

Richard Lucas

Yeah, it’s not just about letting Willow choose and putting Willow’s happiness first - there’s a very obvious low self esteem going on here too.

Bellatronics

One thing that always gets to me in this episode is just how ready Tara is to just accept that Willow is obviously going to want to be with Oz. She even says that she has always thought that whenever he came back Willow would just leave. I think that’s really heartbreaking. It’s almost as if she thinks she’s kind of getting away with having Willow when she’s totally not worthy of it. That she doesn’t even seem to feel like she has the right to be angry about it makes things even worse.

Pudungurte

OMG - you did your Pterodactyl impersonation again! :D Right after your shocked gasp. Omg - the big question - did you actually piss yourself? Lol ! One thing to say on how much shock you were in that Oz is back - Yay!! No one spoilered you!! Think the fandom did a pretty good job in making you think he was gone for good back in episode 6. But on the other hand - hugs for the huge emotional rollercoaster of this episode and seeing Oz back then leave. I too really loved seeing Oz back in this episode, I missed him. And the way he left in ep 6 was just too heartbreaking and sudden. Yeah see, Riley’s comment about Willow “not being that kinda girl” “into dating dangerous guys” - completely indefensible. Jerk. ( ha ha - look at me all with my Americanized language :D ) He’s not only spiting Oz, he’s also bloody slut shaming Willow!! Saying she’s a ‘bad girl’. How very dare he!!!! He’s insulting our Willow!!!!! In a bigoted manner. Ugh, misogynistic jerk, Riley sucks. Okay okay - he does the right thing by the end and tries to rescue Oz - still, he has very narrow minded thinking. Which at least is being challenged a bit. Oz is so cool - he checked with Xander first if Willow had someone new in her life. And if even he’d said person rather than ‘guy’ Xander would’ve said no, coz he doesn’t know about Willow & Tara. But I really like that if he’d known, he would’ve backed off, and even now, doesn’t want to push. Well - except that is his logical and sensible and considerate part of his brain. Obviously he does have major issues with Willow actually being with someone else. To the the point that he loses his hard earned control. “Now he’s even cooler. How?!” - Lol Meanwhile, in Spike’s crypt…. Liam: “That is me.” - you sleep on a stone sarcophagus???? With a thin ratty blanket?? :D :D Isn’t Tara an absolute sweetheart!!! “I’ll still be here, I’ll still be your friend …. I mean I know what Oz means to you.” She was totally expecting Willow to go straight back to Oz, and totally willing to step aside, however much it hurt her. “Do what makes you h-happy” - Tara stans Willow’s happiness too! Forest? Listen to Tara? he wouldn’t have given a fuck if she had managed to explain to him that Oz is a werewolf and a human being most of the time and a student. He’s NOT gonna have his world view challenged and help rescue Oz in a million suns. OMG, I’m back handedly giving kudos and credit to Riley, LOL. You did an “uugghh” for Riley!!! I love you Liam. :D :D Okay, don’t take that too seriously, I know it’s probably only temporary , Lol. “You fucking arseholes! Eat them all !” I concur. This episode is so upsetting with the Oz torture. :’( “Or someone formally dangerous and currently annoying” - I love that line, and SMG’s delivery of it. “At least give him a sweater.” Poor Oz’s nakedness is a sign of how the Initiative absolutely do not see Oz as human AT ALL. And what sassy thing has Forest got to say - LOL. “You’re an anarchist Finn” - unfortunately not. But he is showing his best side ever in the later half of this episode. Definite improvement from contact with Buffy and her ‘band of freaks’. Aw, big hug for the tears Liam. It is a very sad and touching scene in the van, and such an emotional roller coaster of an episode. This is so sad - ( and for me happy at the same time with the final scene) - but isn’t this SOOO much better a farewell for Oz that episode 6 !!!!! [IF this is the final farewell of course?? - dun dun dun… ] Yup, what an excellent episode eh. Gut wrenchingly emotional in the best possible way. I’m so happy that you loved it so much rather than just being sad. Reductionist - most excellent word , especially to describe Riley ’s black & white views. For the first half of this episode I was like “Riley, why have I been defending you” - LOLZ !!!! Yeah I know the worst things he’s said/ attitudes were in the first half of this ep. But I could see this in him from the beginning - the kind of priviledged self righteous mindset that has these extremely narrow minded, bigoted world views that go along with maintaining the status quo and existing systems of power. Which is why I never liked him. I’ve already given the twat kudos earlier though for trying to rescue Oz, so that’ll do. :) Yes, Buffy was very cool in this ep - calling Riley out. Wow, you are quite right about Willow being able to pick a person that is right for her at the time, have never heard that said before. Btw - there is a possible 3rd option for future you - and all other fans of course - you/ they may love both relationships equally! Just saying, cos people don’t always have a preference. Not cos I expect you to change your current view! Whereas for me of course the Willow/Tara relationship (Tillow) is too significant and close to my heart for me not to prefer it. ( Presuming you’ve read my first really long post above!). I too adore how both Oz and Tara put Willow’s happiness first - and despite Oz’s wolf out in front of Tara - in that sense they weren’t fighting over her - they were letting her choose. And yes - so much respect and significance is given to the Oz/Willow relationship in this episode - I love that so much. And it’s why he needed to come back in one way, so that there was full closure and no sense that Oz was just being forgotten - by the show, or writers or Willow. Thank you Liam!!

Bellatronics

I LOVE this episode! & I was as surprised & happy as you to see Oz the first time through. I Love WIllow & Oz as any sane person would. I also love that she choses these two people who are kind and selfless in a similar way, and have endearing qualities. You can understand why she loves them both. I LMAO when you reacted to Oz & I cried with you at the end. Great Reaction!! XO

Sisnerdly

*Beginning of the season* Liam: I'm loving the new direction this show is taking. Everything is new and exciting and I can't wait to see where this season takes us. I especially love the relationship between my two cinnamon rolls Willow and Oz. Joss Whedon: *writes Oz out of the show* Liam: Oh that nearly broke me. It's going to take me a long time to get over that. At least I still have Angel. I'm loving Angel so far. The new character Doyle is great. I can't sing his praises enough. Joss Whedon: *kills Doyle* Liam: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! *many episodes later* Liam: This season has put me through a lot, but I've recovered a little bit. I will always miss Oz, but Willow's new relationship with Tara does seem quite wholesome, and I just want Willow to be happy. Things are finally getting better. Joss Whedon: Hmmm...this is no good at all. *brings Oz back for an episode just to make Willow feel torn* Liam: @#&@#* !#*$(#( )*&@^ #*@(*%&* #(@*&$(@ #($(@*(@! #(%*%#*& $*&#*$&%#* (*#@!*&

Steve Quast

I love both Tara and Oz, so this episode hits me pretty hard. I love the fact that Willow, Tara, and Oz are in a very difficult situation, through no fault of any of the 3 of them. Their pain comes from unfortunate circumstances... not from results of their actions.

UTU49

Aw, this is a beautiful episode <3 I was so waiting for your reaction to this! I think the Willow-Oz scene in the car is poignant and exquisite, my favourite line is when Willow says "some part of me will always be waiting for you...like if I'm old and blue-haired, and I turn the corner in Istanbul and there you are, I won't be surprised...Cause, you're with me, you know?" 💗Like you said, the whole episode is so well handled and delicately written. I adore Willow & Tara, but I also love Oz and Willow. It's confusing but I'm glad it was explored in this episode and we got some closure, and also that Willow could finally come out to Buffy her best friend. And it was nice to see Oz and Tara both care for the wellbeing of the other, despite the circumstances. Your reaction was amazing and I'm so glad you loved the episode! Re: the Initiative, we see how limited and reductionist their worldview is as opposed to the radical power & liminal space the Scoobies and Slayer inhabit. Can't believe we're so near the close of S4 already and I'm so looking fwd to the next season! (S5 and S6 are my favourite seasons)

This is one of those hours of television that, no matter how many times I've seen it -- probably at least 20 -- it still makes me cry every single time.

peggin

This show is so good.

Cheyne Johnson

Ever since your love for Willow and Oz started I was worried for this to come. I had hoped you would warm to Tara, but I didn't know how you would react to her being with Willow. I'm glad you've taken it in stride and ended up liking them together. I know you'll always love her with Oz and that's totally understandable. But as someone who is a huge shipper of Willow/Tara it is nice to see you accept both ships. I hope you grow to love them together even more! As long as Willow is happy I think we're all happy 🙏

Jenn Rose

I've been so looking forward to this reaction. Right now I'm at 3:30 - and I don't know if I can handle watching you watch this episode!!! Had to pause it. This episode means so much to me. But it's gonna be such an emotional roller coaster for you, and I may not be able to handle all the feels at the end with how you'll feel and how I'll feel about how you feel - and there's a lot of feels ok?! Okay, restarting now. :)

Bellatronics

Quote from Amber Benson (Tara) on the relationship between Willow & Tara & the social/cultural impact it had: "Alyson and I would get letters, and you don't realize the impact you're making until you really start thinking about it. When kids come up and say, 'I didn't kill myself because of Buffy and your relationship,' it blows your mind. It wasn't about two women making out. It was about two women who fell in love with each other and happened, just happened, to have the same genitalia"

Claire Eyles

This show is just so good at catharsis, I'm constantly blown away by it. I didn't stop clutching my heart the whole episode. Fun fact: Marti Noxon, who wrote this episode, has two moms. I think that's part of why it was handled so elegantly. Sexuality was an important part of the episode, but it didn't absolutely define the main conflict or the character dynamics, which was essentially unheard of with queer storylines back then. Queer people were treated as queer first and people second, instead of people first and queer second (or third or fourth etc). It's difficult to exaggerate how impressive this representation was, we're still not getting it as right as this episode does much of the time.

KT

Your huge reaction at seeing Oz in the doorway was everything. And then it just got better. It’s a heartbreaking episode in a way but also gives Oz and Willow a chance to start healing and move forward.

Steve Maxey

I love Willow and Oz, but I just LOVE Willow and Tara. Credit to the writing and both actresses for making that happen. It’s never a given, but the skill here is amazing. Buffy was definitely thrown for a loop but recovered quickly. This is her best friend. I hope everyone who comes out as gay or bi has a best friend react at least that well. And I don’t fault Riley at all. He’s never met or even heard of a good demon before. Even the Scoobies were thrown when they first realized Angel was a vampire back in season one, including Giles. But Riley reacted quickly and rightly to try to rescue Oz, even though it meant committing treason. Too bad super-Jonathan wasn’t still around to put in a good word for him.

Richard Lucas

Sometimes I feel as evil as Whedon himself when I see reactors hit episodes like this one, and I just maniacally rub my hands and grin in anticipation. 😈 And then I watch the episode with you and end up a sobbing hot mess all the same. 😭😭😭

RavenSteal

I thought they timed this episode perfectly, you just got invested enough with the Willow & Tara relationship and then Oz! You see him and there's all the happy feels followed by.. oh shit, Tara 😔

Okay I've watched your reaction and it was everything I knew t would be.. 😢

This episode was so unfair. No matter who Willow chose, I was always going to feel so bad for the other but I'm glad Oz came back and he and Willow got to say their goodbyes in a much more satisfying way. Allyson Hannigan was as heartbreaking as ever

Donna

I don't think anybody could fault you for preferring Willow and Oz at this point in time. Willow and Oz have had 2-3 seasons to win you over. Willow and Tara have had maybe half a dozen scenes, and several of them were left ambiguous because this aired 20 years ago when networks were terrified of gay couples. All we know for sure at this point is that Tara is adorable and that Willow and Tara are adorable.

Second_Strike

Your reaction to this great episode was everything like priceless 💜

Catherine Thurmond

Okay your reaction to seeing Oz I think was all of our reactions to seeing Oz the first time we watched the episode (super pumped excitement, followed by the dawning realisation that 'oh crap, timing'). Joss is evil that way.

Claire Eyles

Extra pre-emptive hugs before I watch your reaction <3 One thing to really keep in mind with Tara and Willow is that this was the first fully realised same sex relationship to ever be shown on US network television. We almost take for granted these days that LGBTQI+ representation should be a given, but at the time of Buffy airing the idea that 'here are two female characters who have fallen in love and who are in a committed relationship, and we are going to show the relationship between them' (network rules on how much physical affection could be shown aside) was absolutely ground breaking. Someone had to pave the way, Buffy was the show that did it and the effect it had on LGBT+ youth growing up at the time, in terms of self acceptance, self love, self worth, etc, cannot be underestimated

Claire Eyles

This is such an excellent and torturous story. It felt so perfectly timed that just as we are fully invested in Willow/Tara, Oz shows up.

Jarrod Wild

When Willow cries I cry 😭

Sarah McKinlay

I've been waiting for this reaction for seasons now so AHHHHHH. I've always loved Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara. But Willow and Tara are one of my favorite couples ever so I'm a bit biased. I was a young teen when I first saw them and it was around that time that I realized I was gay so they have a very special place in my heart. I haven't even watched the reaction yet but I know this will be painful for you so sending all the hugs and love your way!

Jenn Rose

I'm so impressed by your reaction to this. Not that I expected you to be disapproving of Willow/Tara, but we all know how much you love Willow/Oz. Your graciousness in seeing what Tara does for Willow's happiness, even when held up against Willow's possibly getting a second chance with Oz ... you are a very kind person.

Bean's friend

Oh wow! We've all been waiting for this *hugs* 😢

They did a very good job creating both characters, so that, even if you love Oz more than anything, you don't hate Tara for being the next person.

FernWithy

As much as I love, love, LOVE Willow/Oz...I have such a special place in my heart for Willow/Tara. It was the first time I ever saw an LGBTQ+ relationship and it helped me understand my own sexuality before I could even explain it myself. I related A LOT to Tara growing up. She still remains very high up on my list of favorite fictional characters (she's second place and Buffy is #1). This pairing was just super incredibly important to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I definitely have a personal bias here but like...doesn't everybody when it comes to their favorite characters and ships? haha

Ritchie

I will feast on your pain.

Thomas Hansen