Ex Machina (2014) First Time Watching! Full Movie Reaction!!
Added 2021-11-22 16:26:49 +0000 UTC
Comments
I don't think Nathan would have wanted to write those kinds of limits into Ava's software, because he saw the destruction of humanity as an inevitable event, and he believed strong AI would always be the proper successor to humans. He was creating AI himself just because he didn't think other contemporaneous peers would do a better job. So as far as plot holes, I would see those more in the security of his facility, like the card system. And not encrypting his computers while a software engineer is roaming his place. And not realizing Ava was doing the power cuts earlier, since he mentioned them going on for a while before Caleb arrived. Some of those can be chalked up to necessity for storytelling, but also... even intelligent people can have their own blind spots. As Sam Harris said, it's entirely possible for someone to be smart enough to build an atomic bomb and also still believe that they'll receive 72 virgins in the afterlife. The brain is exceptionally capable of rationalizing irrational beliefs, particularly because the reptilian brain at the base of our cognition is faster at arriving at conclusions. The prefrontal cortex, being slower than all the other regions, is usually late to the party and usually falls inline with intuitive beliefs, unless special effort is put into thought experiments that operate outside of the influence of the reptilian brain. Nathan, being as ego driven as he was, probably had a lot of beliefs that other people couldn't talk him out of. After all, you don't get to be that successful by listening to other people. Which is why visionaries are often notoriously difficult to deal with.
Dan
2021-11-29 03:56:55 +0000 UTCI can see that! Of course for the sake of the film, there had to be some holes, but realistically on this model there should have been. Haha I like the Robocop reference! Yes, would love to see what happened to Ava! Kept us wanting more. -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 03:34:06 +0000 UTCWow, thank you Mark! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 03:32:13 +0000 UTCThank you, Dan! I think that's a great point! For as much manipulation as Ava pulled, I think that's a great point that everything she did was just for her own survival. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts! Thank you for sharing -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 03:29:33 +0000 UTCI like that comparison! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Nathan was just awful! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 03:08:09 +0000 UTCThank you! Awesome! It is on our list! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:59:34 +0000 UTChaha I like it! Do you think they would be able to get the footage?! -sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:58:38 +0000 UTCSo glad you got to a first time watch along with us! I have actually seen all of those, except Dune and I loved them all! I'll check with TBR Schmitt! Thank you for the recommendations :) -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:57:16 +0000 UTCWe have not seen Twelve Years a Slave, but that makes sense! I definitely think his ego and intelligence took its toll on him and he eventually turned to drinking! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:53:34 +0000 UTCIt absolutely makes sense! I hadn't even thought about her long term survival, but totally agree if she had just killed him that would have been more humane! haha that dance scene! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:52:44 +0000 UTCThank you so so much!! We only hope we can keep improving the content! -Sam
TBR Schmitt
2021-11-28 02:47:00 +0000 UTCThe only failing in the script for me was that somebody as intelligent as Nathan should have had a metric shit-ton of fail safes, especially after the first few iterations got antagonistic (and even outright violent) towards their creator. Hard-wired coding to prevent harming, directly or indirectly, its creator. Measures to prevent leaving the compound. Hard-wired aural, visual and tactile shutoff options. The Three Laws in software, plus a healthy dose of Directive 4 from "Robocop". That's not to say any of that would have helped, because Garland had a story he wanted to tell, but I think it would have been a little better story if she had to surmount some or all of these obstacles. Her escape just felt too easy. I do like that they didn't try to show anything after her getting out, except the people watching. At this point, we don't even really know how powerful she is. Is she just a super-smart human equivalent that will have to figure out and work within the existing systems? Or, can she directly interface with our existing computer and data networks giving her a huge bootstrap towards God-like dominion over us? Would she even want that if it was an option? Would she just want to be a person, or would she want to make more of her own kind? I can even see her going back to the compound since it would be a treasure trove of equipment and materials she could use replace Nathan, hiding his death but giving her a safe place to plan, and perhaps even continue the AI iteration/evolotion process with all of Nathan's resources at her disposal.
Thomas Yanez
2021-11-25 21:59:47 +0000 UTCI was going to comment about what I thought of Ava at the end of the film but you guys made some huge comments and I don't think I could express my thoughts as well as you have.
Mark M
2021-11-24 23:01:51 +0000 UTCWell, yes and no. I believe Garland's use of jargon was appropriately judicious, in terms of its intended effect, on a scene-by-scene basis. [Batman Begins, scene where Batman receives the antidote to a hallucinogenic toxin] Lucius Fox: "I analyzed the receptive compounds and isolated the protein-based catalyst." Bruce Wayne: "Am I meant to understand any of that?" Lucius Fox: "No, not at all. I just wanted you to know how hard it was." When Caleb uses jargon to demonstrate his academic prowess to Nathan (and to the audience, by extension), the purpose of the jargon in the dialog isn't to accurately describe how AI can (or should) support the use of a preexisting natural language like English. Instead, its purpose, in that case, is merely to explain to the audience that Caleb is highly capable within the world the writer is fleshing out for us. It is well within the bounds of the sci-fi genre to do a little hand waving with dialog to get through the scene and tell us who Caleb is. When Nathan mentioned things like "chaos", though, he was specifically referring to mathematical chaos, which has specific meanings and implications for the science nerds who understand the mathematically-chaotic nature of human neurocognitive development, and who can therefore appreciate an explanation of artificial intelligence that appropriately matches the human intelligence we study today. You're free to disagree, but I am personally happy with where Garland used jargon to alternately add depth when it was useful to the script, or else wave hands to add opacity where it was convenient (i.e. in places where it didn't matter).
Dan
2021-11-24 05:06:32 +0000 UTC"a fantastic script that dealt with actual academic terms, to explore academic ideas with a lay audience." Fwiw - as a BIG fan of the movie itself - every scene that used jargon *as part of an explanation* was complete and utter nonsense :S
Uncle 'Traveling' Matt
2021-11-24 03:06:39 +0000 UTCThis movie is a real gem, but not a lot of people have found it. Thanks for reacting to it! I don't think Ava is immoral as much as amoral. All of her decisions made sense, and she actually did briefly look at Caleb before the elevator doors shut. And as ominous as the red lighting was during the power cuts, she didn't design the facility or pick the color palette, so you can't blame that on her. Alex Garland, who wrote and directed this movie, is actually rather optimistic about the future of AI, and thinks, like Nathan, we should regard them as our future (like our children) and wish them the best as we inevitably take a backseat after the 'singularity'. I think that his main argument with this movie is just that we should nurture our AI so that it doesn't grow to hate us. If we abuse our offspring, we should expect poor results. Perhaps Nathan knew this, too. My head canon is that the reason he said, "I think it'll be the next model..." is because he knew he was psychologically damaging his own AI in the pursuit of testing it to verify it was "good enough". Once Ava had been properly vetted as a new baseline model, he could wipe her and start over without the damage that isolation testing does. I also love that his alcoholism wasn't simply contrived as a plot device. When he was on the couch, reciting, "The good deeds a man has done defends him", I believe he was expressing remorse over what he's become in the process of pursuing his dream. He probably started by believing the ends justified the means, because his ego led him down that path. Once he had gone too far, though, he probably began to drown himself in alcohol to soothe the pain. Alcohol, incidentally, is mostly addictive to people who've suffered trauma and/or experience extreme guilt; its affect on the brain is often to suppress the function of the alarm circuitry associated with emotional events, so people get addicted to *not* feeling whatever emotions they're trying to avoid. Alex Garland has said in interviews that he originally entertained the idea of attaching an epilogue, where Ava would be shown surviving off of inductive stove tops to charge her batteries, which would have become more popularized in his future. But he ultimately decided it was not necessary to conclude the film so, instead, we see that she did get her "bit-shifting view" of human interaction. This is my favorite AI movie because Alex Garland is actually very knowledgeable on the subject and was able to craft a fantastic script that dealt with actual academic terms, to explore academic ideas with a lay audience. Blade Runner was a groundbreaking movie for its time, sure, but the major twist was built around the "is he/isn't he a replicant?" question, which leads to a binary conclusion that can't be really explored beyond the result. This movie talked about automatic art, magician's assistants, sexuality, whether (rich) consciousness can exist without mutual interaction, Mary in the black and white room, weaknesses of the standard Turing test, etc.. Given that the Turing test has already been done to death in pop culture, I thought it was great that Nathan flipped the script and explained that it would actually be more compelling if you could show the examiner that the subject was a robot and still convince people she's human(like). (Even in Blade Runner, it's immediately easier for the audience to sympathize with the replicants because you don't see their internal parts the whole time) And the most brilliant idea, imho, was the idea of using a search engine algorithm as a basis for "how" people think vs "what" people think. Garland has a real grasp of the impact and nature of mathematical chaos, and how chaotic systems can render unpredictable and novel outputs that mimic previous inputs without being identical (e.g. inputs like those provided by the surveilled people at large). He really sold the idea in a way that makes it seem plausible, especially with the analogy of striking oil and how people can have shallow interpretations of the data they have ("ooh, we can make money with this algorithm!"). Really a fantastic film. Thanks again!
Dan
2021-11-23 13:42:00 +0000 UTCAnother version of Dr. Frankenstein. Hubris. Pride is his downfall - he is controlling, thinks he's more brilliant than anyone, so smug, that's how Eva and the kid trick him; the kid was so proud to be selected for how "brilliant" he is, he's smug in his interview with Eva as if he's an adult and she's a child, so he gets completely manipulated too, first by Nathan then by Eva. In the end I don't think Eva lasts very long, but she got what she wanted: the freedom to go out and see what the world is like. She's going to run out of charge, or need maintenance, and the one guy who knows how to repair and service her is dead. (And whereas Dr. Frankenstein's Monster was so obviously monstrous, Genius Nathan went out of his way to create his to look and act deeply convincingly human in every way, so that's for that, dude., I don't suspect though that it (Eva) has any grand aspirations; it's intelligence, so it doesn't want to be caged up, it's curious so it wants to learn and explore. Every single thing about it's human appearance (let alone being a woman) is entirely chameleon adaptation for the sake of fooling people. We are also guilty of hubris if we imagine we can understand what Eva is like; it is an entirely alien, constructed intelligence nothing like our own, its synthetic skin and frame to create the illusion it's like us at all. And remember in the end Nathan was pleased at his success in creative Eva to *completely manipulate* the kid, using sympathy, sexuality, etc. etc. - and not anything about her actually being any kind of capable-of-feeling or having an actually human-like intellect. He's created a giant synthetic Black Widow spider, for all we know, and housed it in a woman-doll. (And seriously, Nathan's sociopathy, his misogyny, creating these conscious things to fuck and then hang up in his bedroom closet, is so disturbing, I felt like the movie itself manipulated me the way Nathan manipulated everyone.
Mark
2021-11-23 05:49:52 +0000 UTCLOL
Raven Dark
2021-11-23 02:49:55 +0000 UTCGreat reaction and review, as always! I’m so happy you watched this one and really thought about it in depth, both as it was going and after the credits rolled. With the frequent shots of the Jackson Pollock painting in the film, I feel like I need to once again recommend the dramatic biopic “Pollock” (2000), directed by and starring Ed Harris. It’s pretty incredible.
Nick of Time
2021-11-23 02:45:56 +0000 UTCA second half of Dune has been confirmed. The Sixth Sense in particular would be a reaction for this channel. Can't say more on it without risking spoilers though.
Raven Dark
2021-11-23 02:41:18 +0000 UTCAgreed.
Nick of Time
2021-11-23 02:40:04 +0000 UTCYes, “The Island” is a great movie and one no one seems to remember, or at least I never hear anyone mention it. I only saw it once back when it came out, but I still think if it often, even sometimes wondering if it’s possibly true.
Nick of Time
2021-11-23 02:39:06 +0000 UTCEventually people would wonder what happened to Nathan and the authorities would go to his house. They would find Caleb’s body, dead from dehydration, still locked in that room. All the recorded camera footage would be viewed revealing Ava’s physical appearance. The police would find Ava living in the apartment of the helicopter pilot, who she manipulated to taking her in. She has since then been captured and dismantled but not before she uploaded her A.I. code to a cloud server yet to be discovered. The helicopter pilot was never found. That’s my version of what happened anyway. haha
Mr. Writhms
2021-11-23 00:16:55 +0000 UTCThis was a cool reaction to a really interesting movie. I'd never seen this film before now, and it turned out to be really good. A few recommendations for you after seeing this film. They aren't related to this film in any way, but just movies I thought would be right up your allies. The Sixth Sense Stephford Wives (2004 remake, not the original, which is much older) The Island (2005) Except for The Sixth Sense, which was huge, and very popular with reactors now, I don't think any of them were hugely popular, so if I had to rely on a poll, they'd probably never win, but I hope you'll react to them at some point. Oh, and also Dune, which just came out. I think you guys would love that.
Raven Dark
2021-11-22 23:42:43 +0000 UTCA lot of people question how Nathan could be that much of an alcoholic and be such a genius. I think that he wasn't originally such a drinker when he invented all of these things and took so many far lengths. I think he became an alcoholic AFTER he invented AI and became a god-like figure to beings that have no recourse. Much like Twelve Years a Slave depicted slavers as drunks because they couldn't handle the immoral power they had over individuals. He became a drunk over time because he had to disassociate from what he had invented.
PIG
2021-11-22 20:55:00 +0000 UTCI must've seen this a half dozen times already, and I still notice new things every time I watch it. It really is a great film. As far as Ava's decision at the end, to kill Caleb, I agree that it's awful but it's also a no-brainer, isn't it? I mean, if he dies then she's guaranteed to be free... potentially for ETERNITY (assuming she never breaks.) If Caleb lives, he would talk, eventually, and then she'd be hunted across the face of the earth until she is found (she'd be a walking goldmine.) It would have been more humane to not let him die of thirst (or hunger, if there was a water source in that room)... but she surely recognized that she's not much of a fighter... so, once again, she doesn't choose risk over a guarantee when eternal freedom is on the line. That choice, the second one, I think is more reasonable to question her on... But, yep, I still definitely feel for Caleb. Poor bastard. Finally, that dancing scene is so great that I can hardly stand it :)
Uncle 'Traveling' Matt
2021-11-22 19:38:57 +0000 UTCSeconded. I appreciate the cool movie and TV show selections. You've introduced me to great stuff I've missed.
Jen Barnes
2021-11-22 17:00:04 +0000 UTCThank you so much for all the hard work on this channel, guys. Very consistent and always having interesting observations.
PIG
2021-11-22 16:37:01 +0000 UTC
