Alternate Monk: Expanded (Major Update)

Hi, just noticed some things while looking at your archetypes. The Way of Ferocity says, for Savage Strikes (3rd level feature): "Your martial arts damage die increases to a d6 for your unarmed strikes. Your martial arts die for unarmed strikes increases again at 5th level (1d8), 11th level (1d10), and 17th level (1d12)." But, this is already your monk's unarmed strike damage die progression, according to The Monk Table. This might be redundant, or am I missing something? Also, not sure if it was intentional or if the Kensei used the same wording, but the Way of the Wuxia has some redundancies: the Wuxia weapons are considered Martial Arts attacks, which means that listing that they bypass magical resistance in the Ki-Infused Weapons feature is unnecessary, correct? I'm not sure if that helps but I noticed it and was curious. Further, I don't know if you take suggestions for subclasses, but have you considered a mounted monk? Pathfinder had the Sohei, which was pretty great! I mention it only because I see you have made some of your own animal companion subclasses elsewhere. Finally, I noticed a minor typo in Marial Arts: "You can use your Dexterity, in place of Strength, for the attack and damage rolls or your Martial Arts attacks." I think the "or" in "or your Martial Arts attacks" should be "of"?

Henrik Hendrickson

I’d probably still allow the speed bump even without the light weapons. If they picked up other weapons though, it would drop.

laserllama

This is a lovely class rework, my player is so excited to try it out! (they were JUST about to make a vanilla monk too) Question about Featherweight fighting: As far as I understand it Unarmed Strikes are NOT light weapons, Does this mean you go faster if you pick up a weapon than if you're unarmed?

IvyReed

For Indomitable Spirit, remember that Martial Arts allows you to make Dexterity (Athletics) checks in certain cases. You are understanding Drunken Fist correctly.

laserllama

A couple more minor questions: Indomitable Spirit says "When you make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Athletics) check..." Should that say "Dexterity (Acrobatics)," or is there some occasion where Dexterity (Athletics) checks are used in your games? Drunken Fist's Drunken Spirit activates "when you hit a unique creature with a Martial Arts attack." Do I correctly understand this to mean that you only get the +5 feet of movement once per distinct creature hit? (That is, if you hit two different creatures you get +10 feet of movement, but if you hit one creature twice you only get +5 feet.)

Jeff Potato

Loving these changes so far, though I would personally integrate the level 17 feature for Flowing River into the level 3 feature's Dexterity save so that you aren't forced to choose between them. Other than that, I'd probably make damage from Techniques also count as magical at the same time as unarmed strikes. I also had an idea for another subclass called Way of the Flagellant. Basically a Monk/Blood Hunter hybrid that acts as a devil/demon parallel to Way of the Sacred Inks. It would be able to sacrifice HP in place of Ki, and use their knowledge of anatomy and bloodletting to strike their opponent's weak points to cripple them. Might be a little too dark though.

I love the changes to the Monk so far. I've been waiting for Monk to get an update for a while and it seems like most everything I had a problem with is either fixed or mitigated! I still have a couple sparse little notes but it's awesome work; 1. Earthshaker I think could use a lift in it's AOE size specifically. 15ft isn't a whole lot realistically, so unless you're jumping straight into a mosh-pit kind of goblin horde you're likely only getting the same value out of that ground pound than even a 3rd level Rising Dragon's basic Breath typically would (FAR less by 17th level). It's damage is perfectly fine, but I think increasing AOE by 5ft along with each extra damage die, or increasing to 30ft at a set Ki threshold, could help it be more flexible. 3. Master of the Hurricane I think could be a tiny bit more wacky. Possibly hit a couple more targets (maybe add Wis mod to amount?) and maybe even let them knock people around/prone as per Buffeting Wind's control effects. It doesn't really *need* a change but I think it would be more fun battlefield control since that seems to be Hurricane's main role.

Austin G

I don't think I've ever seen NPCs provoke more than one AoO in a *session*, much less a round, but you do have a point about Sentinel. I dislike having to take a feat to make full use of a subclass's abilities (giving up an ASI early *hurts*), but I guess this subclass just isn't my style (and also I don't care for some of 5e's design decisions, like needing to give up ASIs for feats). TBH, I was a lot more concerned about the Savant's extra reactions than the Flowing River Monk's, even though the monk gets considerably more, because the monk has to give up their action to get them and is getting pretty much nothing out of their subclass on turns where they don't do so. (My DM has discussed putting some limitations on how a Savant can actually use the extra reactions if anyone in our group ever plays one; I believe he fears some kind of elaborate rapid-counterspelling multiclass build. And now that I think of it, the Alternate Bard didn't even exist yet when we had that conversation...) Also, I'm kind of curious now how a Mystic who focuses on Restoration stacks up against a Yin & Yang monk. Metamorphosis or Precognition probably have more synergy for a monk who actually wants to fight, though. >_>

Jeff Potato

Thanks for checking out the update! The Mystic could honestly just get access to Talents and that would be a powerful subclass. Some of the top-tier Talents are pretty wild (telekinesis at will?!). Flowing River gives you extra reactions (breaking one of the big rules of homebrewing in the DMG), but you don't have to use them for your Flowing River reaction. You could use them for opportunity attacks or pick up a quarterstaff and the Sentinel Feat and lockdown an area, etc.

laserllama

Way of the Mystic is really cool and I like it a lot, although the level 17 ability doesn't seem very strong for level 17...but I guess you're also presumably getting one of the highest-level psion talents at 17, so there's that. Sacred Inks definitely looks better than I remember as well. I really think I must be missing something about Flowing River, though. Luring enemies into attacking you and knocking them prone is cool, but I feel like it needs *some* kind of offense. Or at least a bit of extra damage when it knocks enemies prone or something. Or is there some other way to take advantage of all the extra reactions I'm missing? ...Also, now that I think about it, if the Flowing River monk is using the free Patient Defense when it enters Flowing River Stance (likely, since monk AC isn't that great for someone who *wants* to be attacked), does Enchanting Flow really give enemies much motivation to attack the monk instead of someone else? They're getting disadvantage either way. Also, perhaps Enchanting Flow should only affect creatures of the monk's choice (i.e. only enemies) instead of just "creatures within 10 feet of you?" Way of the Oni is nifty, although the flavor text feels a little off since "oni" in D&D aren't actually a type of demon (and "infernal" in D&D generally refers to devils, not demons). But flavor text is an easy change, so we can always call it Way of the Infernal Fist or Way of the Burning Tiger or something.

Jeff Potato

Thank you! I think I was overthinking the previous versions. Sometimes simple is best. The Way of the Void might also be the strongest anti-mage subclass I’ve created.

laserllama

Really love the QoL changes to the void monk. Such a cool concept