Fighter is haaaard!
Added 2024-09-19 16:42:56 +0000 UTC
Comments
He didn't add the C-P damage at Level 20. And I think he's double counting the Heroic Inspriation with his C-P calcs. I used your simulation method and otherwise matched him within 2% up through the 2 errors in L19 and L20.
Jake Kimball
2024-10-13 14:06:08 +0000 UTCMaybe use BA attack or secondary attacks on extra to apply topple, then hit hard with True Strike, following.
Leonardo Simao
2024-09-24 11:46:33 +0000 UTC@Treantmonk Why not an Eldritch Knight with True Strike and focusing on Intelligence? Is it worse than Champion's Advantage?
Leonardo Simao
2024-09-24 11:43:50 +0000 UTCThe DPR focus undersells how good that shield fighter is gonna feel. Very very tanky right from the start and then hitting that DPR because your attacks are so rarely missing with that overwhelming control factor? Spicy.
Luke Parker
2024-09-23 18:11:49 +0000 UTCUnderstanding it is a variable that is impossible to control for, the toughest thing for me with the placement of fighter in these graphs is that they benefit disproportionately from having magic weapons (or any source of damage that applies with each hit). The rogue with a +2 rapier in tier 3 applies the extra damage 4 times in TM's scenario and the fighter applies it 12 times (or more with action surges). Extreme low magic campaigns are out there, but I've never played in one and I don't think that most people do. I think it means that on paper where you can make limited assumptions about what will be available, the Fighter looks a lot closer in damage dealing than it ends up being in reality at the table.
Andrew Jensen
2024-09-22 15:25:30 +0000 UTCYou sugest (end of video) barbarian is most dmg martial and I suppose half and full caster are still more powerfull but I like to be surprised and see different results.
Rhaegar Targaryen
2024-09-20 20:32:53 +0000 UTCOf those 3 classes, in regards to dealing damage, yes.
Treantmonk's Temple
2024-09-20 19:56:08 +0000 UTCNo, the only way to get Graze is with 2H weapons
Treantmonk's Temple
2024-09-20 19:55:14 +0000 UTCSo monk is still weakest but isn´t alone (with rogue same place).
Rhaegar Targaryen
2024-09-20 13:09:39 +0000 UTCIs it possible to replace the topple with graze? Not sure that would add a lot of dps because you would be missing topples advantage. Just curious.
Richard DeGraw
2024-09-20 13:05:44 +0000 UTCThere are two obvious problems with rating your final sword and board build: 1. Wouldn't you have gotten similar results by providing the same or similar benefits to other builds? 2. A factor not considered in rating builds for pure damage is how much damage a character is taking. Obviously, a character in melee is taking more damage than one fighting at range, and a character with a shield is taking less damage than one without a shield. But given how things went with that final build, the last thing you need is even more complication.
David Knott
2024-09-20 02:32:05 +0000 UTCGreat video. Love the shirt! Z-man beats the baseline by 50% : )
Chris Rooney
2024-09-20 01:37:15 +0000 UTCGreat video, tho I am a bit sad you did sword&board instead of Dual Wielder. The Dual Wielder Fighter I did math for did reasonably well at levels 1-10 (especially well at level 4 when Dual Wielder came in), but dropped really hard in tier 3 and 4. It is also the reason I concluded that Dual Wielder Paladins are gonna be great cuz in Tier 3 Radiant Strikes help much more than yet another Extra Attack (not that special if you can attack 4 times a turn already it seems).
Kaien
2024-09-19 23:00:43 +0000 UTCI can confirm your math for the nightmare build is pretty spot on. I used some code to brute force calculate the average by simulating the combats (cause that seemed easier for me than doing the probabilities) and your averages were within 1 point of what I got except at 19 and 20. For those two I got 71 and 92 dpr respectively.
Jakob Slason
2024-09-19 21:14:34 +0000 UTCAwesome work on the math nightmare build! Currently planning a 1h and board Protection fighter, perhaps I could use Shillelag to increase my dpr a little bit even though that’s not the primary focus of the build (even though I have a a magic weapon up to rare so that might auto-fix the drp problema if I get a +2 weapon).
Andrea Rispoli
2024-09-19 19:49:12 +0000 UTCFor the "simplest" class in the game there sure is a lot of math on this fighter. My biggest takeaway is that Graze is the real Great Weapon Fighting Style. My group has also come to the conclusion that Shillelagh may be a bit overtuned for how accessible it is now, I bet an Eldritch Knight can do some very nasty things, especially at tier 4 (even ignoring conjure minor elementals)
EdibleFriend
2024-09-19 19:31:39 +0000 UTCLooking at the graphs now, I was thinking if it wouldn’t make sense to take the average damage across all these different class baseline builds (once your finished with them) and use as the “general baseline” in place of the Warlock. Although that would make the number more hypothetical than using one simple build as baseline
Esben Jensen
2024-09-19 18:55:54 +0000 UTCI’d be interested to see the ‘screw it, I’m just going to assume advantage on all these attacks and no re-rolls if my advantage attacks miss’ just to see if the curve looks reasonable.
Krakenbreath
2024-09-19 18:42:56 +0000 UTCA 1 level dip in Ranger for Hunter's Mark or a 3 level dip for Hunter (extra attack) then rest as a Dual Wielder (Trident & Scimitar) Fighter seems like it would put out significantly more damage. I'd love to see the math on that.
Jason Raper
2024-09-19 18:20:28 +0000 UTCRegarding the sword-and-board 2024 Fighter, I think the expectation is that Fighters find a magic weapon that boosts their damage, like a Flametongue, while magic weapons for Rogues/Monks/Warlock aren't as common. But that's too DM-dependent for my taste.
Oracle Raven
2024-09-19 17:52:33 +0000 UTCYou are talking to alot of data nerds. I wish you would put axis labels and a legend on your damage vs level plots.
Rob Davis
2024-09-19 17:45:06 +0000 UTCYESSS!! I love the Fighter, the idea of a master of combat, weapons, tactics is just awesome and the new version makes those aspects even more present. Now it’s time to see what they can really do in terms of brute force
Lukes AndadorDoCeu
2024-09-19 16:44:46 +0000 UTC
