Step Your Pussy Up Under Fascism [SUBSCRIBER-ONLY]
Added 2025-09-02 08:00:22 +0000 UTCIt's okay to be scared. It's hard not to succumb to the nihilism of the second Trump administration. But that is precisely what he and his administration want you to do. Please don't fall for it. Instead, own your power, make them fear you, and for God's sake, STEP YOUR PUSSY UP!
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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com
Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.
Comments
1. Fuck yes Rhi, the reframing of what is required of us is so helpful and important right now 2. I’m just envisioning looking out my window watching the people of Boston react to the AI government enforcing all the puritan laws still on the books
knb
2025-10-20 16:19:03 +0000 UTCThis is what I captured last night, starting around 32:18 . Rhiannon: There’s a subgroup of the questions that we got that are kind of like, “I’ve been a lawyer for a year, now, all I’ve seen in that time is what little existed of a rule of law has been shit on by a system that refuses to stop clear and unbridled fascism. We’re 7 months into this: what do we do?” Peter: Yeah, “law obviously doesn’t matter so—now what?” I think my response to that is I know you mean when you say ‘law doesn’t matter’ but I also think it’s important to understand that, like, law is the same as it ever was. One thing we’ve very consistently stressed is that law is politics. Law is about the dynamics of power between different people and different institutions. Those dynamics have changed. But that doesn’t mean that law isn’t there any more. Law lives in the shadows of those dynamics. It fills the gaps. So—in the past, we might’ve seen a Supreme Court that was more interested in checking executive power, more interested in protecting voting rights or whatever. So, what has changed? Has law changed? Has the practice or nature of law changed? Not really. What’s changed is the political dynamics. What’s changed is the environment in which law operates. We’re not formalists. We’re realists. To me, law isn’t some celestial construct, it’s a function of political power. Rhiannon: Right. It tells us something really important about where things are for us as a society. Peter: Right, I think a lot of people say this but what they really mean is that the law seems less fair than it used to be. More arbitrary than it used to be. It’s being wielded as a weapon more than it used to be—and I think that’s probably true but all that existed before. Just in different ways and to different extents. The nature of law hasn’t changed. The political dynamics have changed. And I get a little bit frustrated when people say “law doesn’t matter, now”. If you’re here on a visa, does it make sense to say that law doesn’t matter? is that the advice that you’d give to someone seeking legal advice in that circumstance? By some measures, it matters more than ever. The stakes are higher than they were before. So…does it feel more arbitrary to you? It might. And, in many ways, it is more arbitrary but it matters. In some ways, it matters more than it used to. Michael: Yeah, I think that’s right and law as the output of politics is a good starting point and one way to think about this is that for a long time, there was broad political consensus that law is the output of politics that means that things that are laid down in statutes and things that are written in precedent are to be respected and to be followed. But now, we live in an era where there is an elite political consensus that the law is whatever Donald Trump says it is. We see this in senior leadership, in editorial boards at major newspapers; we see this from leadership in both parties—maybe for different reasons—but there’s definitely a sense from Democrats: they might think that it redounds do their benefit, electorally, for everyone to just be like, “everything that happens is Trump’s fault so everything he says goes.” You see this from the Supreme Court, you see this from universities, from businesses giving him 10% of their shares. A lot of people who have a lot of power and influence have just decided that this is the way it is. And that makes the law feel very unstable. Rhiannon: Yeah. Michael: And I think that’s what a lot of people are tapping into: is that it’s very unstable because, before, it felt like there was often continuity, even if the law wasn’t fair in the sense that the rules were fair or fairly applied…they ere laid out and you knew what they were and now it’s just the whims of this senile old freak. And what do you do with that? But that doesn’t mean that the law doesn’t matter, it just means that we need to fucking depose the tyrant. Peter: Right. Rhiannon: Yeah, exactly. Y’know, this question and questions like it: my therapist would be proud because I kind of—I’m gonna be honest—I disassociate a lot when we get questions like this or when people engage with me one on one, even, with this kind of tone and bringing this kind of framework. I think my therapist would be proud for me to say outloud: This makes me angry. It makes me really deeply angry that people feel like this. That isn’t meant to belittle the way you’re feeling or to say that things are not bad right now because they are incredibly, incredibly bad right now. They absolutely are. There’s many contradictions within me, ideologically and politically and how I feel emotionally that are brought to the surface by questions like this. In this country, in the United States, we’re actually not in the worst political conditions in history ever experienced by somebody and you’re telling me now that the law doesn’t matter? And also there’s this exceptionalist idea that we are, today, in 2025, in a moment that is so peculiar in how overwhelming it is and how awful it is that we are throwing our hands up and saying that things like the law don’t matter any more. Take a step back. Yes. Things are really bad right now in 2025. Yes, Trump is doing things with the law and the Supreme Court is doing things with the law that are abhorrent and awful and harmful—deeply harmful—and violent to so many people But note, please. Take one half fucking step back: that we are in a historical moment. That brick by brick this current context, the current political conditions that we live in today were built by everybody before. This is not some peculiar, special, Donald Trump and Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas thing. We had concentration camps at the boarder, we had people being kidnapped for their immigration status (or allegedly) long before this was happening under Donald Trump. Yes, there are aspects of this that are so extreme and continue to be elevated but this is not new and, in fact, should be seen as the resulting output of long projects that got us here. So we need to be in a place where we are not saying “the law doesn’t fucking matter anymore, this is all ridiculous” because, what we need right now is actually quite serious engagement with the conditions around you: serious assessment of what’s going on and serious fucking work. Mahmoud Khalil was in immigration detention. The government is currently still trying to deport him. He was immigration detention for over a hundred days. He is out right now, still fighting. He is out right now. Still fighting. On what? On the law (among other things). So don’t fucking say that the law doesn’t matter right now and none of our work matters right now because it is actually abdicating your role in this. This get us also to a general—I’ve already gone off and I’m going to continue to go off because, to be honest, it really pisses me off and I haven’t said anything for months and…podcast is not therapy, Rhiannon, but I’m gonna keep fucking going—there’s a lot of doomsday questions in here and I’m going to say again and I want people to hear me: things are really really fucking bad. Things are really scary. Things are really depressing. You must know, as a listener of this podcast, what I have personally been going through to say nothing of all of the other issues that we deeply, deeply care about, that we advocate for, that we’re talking about right now, that are affecting broad swaths of society. Things are bad, I am with you—things are so bad. But these questions about “is all hope lost, at what point do I leave the country?” We have a question, “How fucked are we really? Tell me as graphically as possible: how close to or far past the time to flee the country for targeted groups?” I want to express my frustration with this because, again, this is—people can make reasonable decisions about where they live and their own safety and leaving the country or not leaving the country but you have a role. You have a role even as a victim of something violent and terrible. You have a role in confronting it. You have a role in changing those conditions. And that role, my good fucking friends, is not to disengage, to throw up your hands, and to leave. We should be stepping up in this moment. If you are a victim, if you are a member of a targeted group, if you are feeling the heat of repression, of attack, of the harm that Trump is trying to impose on so many, that cops are trying to impose on so many, think about why it is because you are a victim. It must be because you are fucking powerful, actually. If you are a trans person right now, my god, how powerful are you?! How incredibly strong—step into that strength. If you’re an immigrant, if your’e Palestinian, if you are gay, if you are a person of color—why would you be a victim? It’s because your’e a threat. It’s because you represent something that is threatening to fascists. Step into it. Be that! Michael: Yeah! One thing fascists love is conformity. And they’re scared of you not only because you don’t conform in a lot of ways but because you have successfully bent society over the last twenty years to create space for your non-conformity. You’re targeted because of your power, because of your success—your cultural success, your political success, your legal success today. Peter: And because you undermine their vision of the world. Rhiannon: Right! Michael: Lean into that. Rhiannon: So keep doing that!! […] When I’m asked about what gives me hope, I think of the author and activist Derecka Purnell, who wrote the book Becoming Abolitionists she, going through, having experienced personal tragedy and so much else in her life, wrote several months ago about what she’s hopeful for. She said, “I’ve been asked a lot about what gives me hope. I have been asking a different question: what is required of me? This question guides me on my best days and my worst days. It is a question that keeps me accountable to community and to our liberation struggle so that, regardless of whether I feel hope under a genocide, illegal abductions, personal tragedy, and more, I know that, through it all, I have a role and relationships that inform my role. Some days are hard. Some days, I may move slow. Some days it doesn’t feel like we’ll win. But that doesn’t stop what is required of me. Our enemies have money, weapons, and the media on their side. Let’s not volunteer the loss of our will.” I think we really really need to take this seriously. This inundation that you’re feeling—the law’s fucked! the law’s all fake! fuck it! it’s all over! That is exactly what the Trump administration wants you to think. That is exactly the point of the fascist inundation that you’re experiencing right now. So don’t just fucking give it to them. So don’t just fucking give it to them. Engage. Keep your mind up. Stay woke, hashtag.
Reg Levy
2025-09-23 15:30:34 +0000 UTCI would like to add to the chorus asking for the transcript or a clip of Rhiannon's talk at the end. I've tried to paraphrase it to multiple people but I really cant do it justice.
Jess C
2025-09-23 05:26:30 +0000 UTCSerious question: How do we make this episode public? What can I contribute to make that happen? Everyone needs to hear Rhiannon's screed at the end. I've transcribed a bit of it (happy to do more since transcriptions seem delayed), the important bits: between 32:18 and 45:01. I want to link friends and family to it and post it all around. ❝ Rhiannon: You have a role. […] You have a role in confronting it. You have a role in changing those conditions. And that role, my good fucking friends, is not to disengage, to throw up your hands, and to leave. We should be stepping up in this moment. […} Michael: Yeah! One thing fascists love is conformity. And they’re scared of you not only because you don’t conform […] but because you have successfully bent society […] to […] your non-conformity. […] Peter: And because you undermine their vision of the world. Rhiannon: Right! Michael: Lean into that. Rhiannon: So keep doing that!! ❞ And then, of course, the Purnell quote. Thank you, Rhiannon, for the ongoing reminder.
Reg Levy
2025-09-23 03:46:29 +0000 UTCcan we get a transcript at least of rhiannon’s section about having hope?
nikki mauldin
2025-09-22 19:34:31 +0000 UTCRhiannon, fuck yeah!
Dystopian Grift
2025-09-21 21:38:10 +0000 UTCPeriod Rhiannon!!!
Nugadelic
2025-09-21 00:58:42 +0000 UTCWe love them. That’s why we listen.
Jayda Rose
2025-09-18 23:44:51 +0000 UTCI appreciate how straightforward y’all are. Truly.
Betti Tristan
2025-09-17 16:08:36 +0000 UTCRhiannon, I thank you from the bottom of my butt for telling me to step my pussy up. I hope you can go on the Gaslit Nation podcast because you and Andrea have the same energy.
ryoknits (Rhiannon)
2025-09-17 14:11:35 +0000 UTCAnd she is 100% correct! Misogynist homophobes hate me because I have built a successful life without a man at the center, and racist assimilationists hate me because I could pass for white but I make sure people know I am proud of my Mexican heritage. I don’t need to change a single thing about me, that terrifies people who have twisted themselves into conformity just to feel safe. I even feel like my own internalized biases are often coming from a place of wanting safety for people and then I have to step back and question if I should instead be willing to defend that person’s right to step “out of line.”
ryoknits (Rhiannon)
2025-09-17 14:07:02 +0000 UTCSame! I get so mad at the apathy - it always comes from people whose default mode is comfort. I mean, if you think about Jim Crow or slavery or the Indian wars for half a second you realize people should not be apathetic.
ryoknits (Rhiannon)
2025-09-17 14:01:43 +0000 UTCYou three should be nice to your listeners because without your listeners you would not be able to do what you are doing and most likely would be working as a public defender, working for a evil corporation, or doing some other thankless job. 🙂
Robert Whitaker
2025-09-15 16:58:21 +0000 UTCDamn I really needed to hear the messages about hope and doing what I can. It's comforting and inspiring, and it helps me get out there and contribute even when I feel depleted. Thank you
Jess C
2025-09-15 10:36:28 +0000 UTCThank you, thank you, Rhi - I just subscribed with the express purpose of listening to your words every single morning to remind me what the fuck we are here for
Rachel
2025-09-15 01:41:14 +0000 UTCI signed up for patreon to listen to this episode because it is 12:38am and I cant sleep and I am on ketamine. Andy's question about the law and AI caused me deep existential horror and dread. Thank you 5-4 for responding in a way that reminded me that some form of reality DOES exist! I am ok! Sort of!!!!!
Jess C
2025-09-13 16:39:52 +0000 UTCThank you .x1000. I’m an immigration law paralegal, an immigrant, and wow I needed some hope ❤️🩹
jackie
2025-09-13 01:04:18 +0000 UTCRhiannon GO. OFF. QUEEN. I'm so glad you named everything you named.
Lindz
2025-09-12 22:34:26 +0000 UTCAndy’s AI question gets at Stuart Hall’s thesis in The Great Moving Right Show. Obviously more conservative.
Claire Ommen
2025-09-12 22:08:06 +0000 UTCThank you very much Rhiannon
shai
2025-09-12 21:55:28 +0000 UTCAs a KC native who doesn't care about the Chiefs, I am endlessly fascinated and perturbed by Peter's love for them.
Camille Conner
2025-09-09 23:01:04 +0000 UTCI love you rhi
Camille Conner
2025-09-09 21:59:28 +0000 UTCFuck yes Rhi!!!! A lot of this discussion reminded me of this poem (or excerpt? Idk, was very recently introduced to this oops) by Adrian Mitchell: "My brain socialist My heart anarchist My eyes pacifist My blood revolutionary" A good reminder to stay focused and principaled while holding onto optimism and kind-heartedness.
Kaytee Blake
2025-09-09 12:08:24 +0000 UTCOmg new subscriber, thanks guys, needed this!
Hrisyana Doytchinova
2025-09-09 11:00:43 +0000 UTCDerecka Purnell quote that Rhi referenced, in case anyone else is looking for it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMxrtqXikO4/ This framing is so helpful, thank you!
Maggie
2025-09-08 02:54:45 +0000 UTClove you so much rhi. 1000 percent with you.
sam
2025-09-06 20:43:53 +0000 UTCI am in more than one of the target groups Rhi mentioned and of course I've joked about leaving. More insidiously though, I've definitely slipped into the depression/nihilism I think you all mentioned. But listening to you go off Rhiannon...it made me tear up a little and was also the exact kick in the ass I needed. Thank you. Sincerely. Love this show.
Desiree Olivarez
2025-09-06 19:10:22 +0000 UTCRhiannon putting to words why I get so obscenely angry when friends talk about fleeing. Very much appreciate the ability to have words for why that triggers me so much. There is so much work to do here ❤️🔥.
Marie Reimers
2025-09-06 17:36:03 +0000 UTCI actually felt hopeful after hearing this episode. Much needed! The discussion about our duties to our community really resonated; thank you for the reminder.
Heather Moritz
2025-09-06 16:09:09 +0000 UTCGo off rhi! 🫶🏼 Palestinians are still fighting for a future. We have no excuse to give up
Chloe Cross
2025-09-06 00:04:28 +0000 UTCRhiannon making me cry at work 😭
Olga And Ryan K And C
2025-09-05 23:28:03 +0000 UTCalso next time yall do listener questions I would love to hear Peter’s review of the new sabrina album xoxo
Isabelle Scholes Young
2025-09-05 16:37:35 +0000 UTCThank you so much for this episode 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻 I would love to see this episode unlocked on the main so I can share it with all my friends I haven’t yet convinced to subscribe!! some of them really need that rhiannon monologue lmao
Isabelle Scholes Young
2025-09-05 16:36:17 +0000 UTCmichael's use of the insult "limp dick losers" is equivalent to my friend group's use of the phrase "soft cocks." solidarity.
Veronica Ahumada
2025-09-05 15:04:33 +0000 UTCI think Rhianna’s dialogue starting around min 37 is very useful not only because of what it articulates but how it does so. It’s really hard to find voices that aren’t all doom and gloom, or at least tinged with it. People are certainly not all defeatist, but it’s rare to hear someone articulate so clearly what this moment is and why the need for engagement is necessary. The rhetorical way she turns victimhood into strength and power was really moving and what I needed to hear this morning. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
David Giza
2025-09-05 12:36:32 +0000 UTCWe need a "scream at a cop today!" tshirt
Elizabeth
2025-09-05 05:21:12 +0000 UTCHell yes Rhi!!! And for anyone looking for hope, you will always find it on the street among those fighting back. There is nothing like standing shoulder to shoulder with your comrades shouting down fascist to remind you of the collective power we have and our obligation to use that to fight for something better.
Maria Kendall
2025-09-05 05:13:54 +0000 UTCSpeaking as someone who is NOT an expert on anything other that my own Backyard, therapeutic framework is something we all need a tiny ref book on in our glove box just start sticking it in your brain like a sticky note or smth 👁️ 👄🪲
Aiko
2025-09-04 22:09:53 +0000 UTCGuys we need to have someone start Oprah’s book club the squeakquel but for the more.. indexed minds among us 🫥🫣🪲 (IBCK) Just prepping you guys with a lil gen-z semiotics (thank u Mike and Aubrey for restoring my Words) MTPH 🚛 Semiotics resources for decoding zoomers: Michaels Microphone 🇦🇺🦋, Nova ❤️🇺🇸, Jenny Nicholson 🇺🇸 💙 {pay attention to chronology in yall research if u aren’t looking that hard rn (jk i know we all like 👁️ 👄 👁️)YTB
Aiko
2025-09-04 22:06:28 +0000 UTCTmestamp of "My therapist would be proud" : 36:41 I will definitely be coming back to that.
Jo
2025-09-04 19:40:22 +0000 UTCI like to call people weiners 😂
Gwynedh Van Allan
2025-09-04 19:34:18 +0000 UTCProbably one of my favorite episodes ever. I hear a lot of “we are getting our passports ready just in case!” “Time to move to Europe!” “California should just secede/ join Canada” etc etc even when said in jest it all chafes me so hard. Especially since I hear it a lot in the UMC majority white circles. The idea of bailing so easily on our country, our values & our fellow Americans feels gross. Time to pussy up. Altho Peter bailed on us in Astoria for NJ so that’s a pretty limp dick move.
Kate T
2025-09-04 16:16:09 +0000 UTCYall please clip that Rhiannon rant & upload it everywhere. I feel like that alone will not just help others, but it will bring new listeners to the Pod. When someone cooks that hard, it is your responsibility to make sure as many people as possible is fed the goods. Amazing episode.
Lars
2025-09-04 15:44:54 +0000 UTCI work with so many fucking Andy's
Jo
2025-09-04 13:10:59 +0000 UTCThank you, my true friends.
Kathryn Fort
2025-09-04 12:54:02 +0000 UTCGO THE FUCK OFF RHI!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 “Watch the Battle of Algiers and then talk to me about hope” - This is quite literally the ongoing conversation I’m having with older white liberals - yes let’s be angry but don’t you dare say there is no hope moving forward. How incredibly American to think that there is nothing we can learn from liberation movements throughout history and outside of US borders.
Hannah
2025-09-04 12:04:02 +0000 UTCYES YES YES RHIANNON
Miles Starr
2025-09-04 11:49:51 +0000 UTCThank you guys for posting this. Came at a perfect time 🤣 Been a listener since ‘22 and you guys really helped me at a weird time [half 🇲🇽 💙🧿gen z-er doing colleg 1st in 🧑🧑🧒🧒 while now is now :)] Just wanted to thank y’all for ur service to us in such a fugly time lol (especially u Rhiannon 🧿💙🩵) Haha I’m a rambler gimme a break ok it’s my first time commenting online in like 1000 years lol (super duper cool and regular kid just so u kno 🥜 gallery) And to every1 here: don’t give up bc I didn’t and that’s actually not fair to the rest of us if u think abt it 💚 LOCK IN BESTIES it’s a slow process but lookin at ur screen time helps js ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Me and all my other young ppl friends are thinking in similar way about this lately so like 🩵TL:DR touch ⛳️🌱
Aiko
2025-09-04 09:18:35 +0000 UTCI very deeply understand Rhiannon's anger. I'm a trans person working for state government in a super blue "sanctuary" state that is nonetheless starting to bend the knee - my response was to go back to school. I'm still working, still advocating in my job, but I'm now also in halftime online classes for pre-law, finishing out the last half of my bachelor's degree. Every time the news gets worse, I open a text book and hit my homework. I'm becoming a person who can help more. Its not hope. It's progress.
Cris Hylton
2025-09-04 08:36:09 +0000 UTCThank you. Solidarity.
Kerena
2025-09-04 03:47:28 +0000 UTCFuckin A… Rhiannon your speech should be broadcast to anyone on the left in the US right now
Steven Krager
2025-09-04 01:56:24 +0000 UTCWe used to upload PDF transcripts as attachments to the premium eps here on Patreon - will look into what happened with that!
5-4
2025-09-03 21:08:52 +0000 UTCThank you for the pep talk -- I really needed it.
Breda
2025-09-03 21:02:23 +0000 UTCjust started law school and immediately got covid, so that bodes well. can’t wait for the 2025 welcome to law school redux!
Sion Bell
2025-09-03 20:44:42 +0000 UTCHey guys, can we get transcripts of the subscriber-only podcasts too? It'd be really helpful for us, especially when trying to find our spot again in an episode.
wolverinethad
2025-09-03 20:15:52 +0000 UTChttps://bsky.app/profile/dirtbagboyfriend.bsky.social/post/3lxvgivgpmc2f A good thread to look at to see what it's like for some people who are doubly vulnerable. I've followed Alex since the dark days of GamerGate when they still presented female. Ten years of online abuse plus being Arabic and trans...can you blame them for not wanting to be stuck here when they're already at risk of being snatched off the street?
wolverinethad
2025-09-03 20:14:38 +0000 UTCWe all needed Rhi's speech and I personally am going to try to be a little more disciplined in not joining in on the "nothing matters anymore and we're all fucked" conversations because at the end of the day it's almost always a way to make ourselves feel better about inaction
Meg E
2025-09-03 19:46:14 +0000 UTCIt concerns me that so many listeners aren’t actually involved in any sort of liberation movements or actual organizing. The only people I’ve talked to who are so concerned about leaving the country are those who haven’t lifted a finger for the community.
Matthew Rudley
2025-09-03 19:45:10 +0000 UTCCan confirm, screaming at a cop is an incredibly cathartic and joyful practice, especially while riding a bike. 11/10, would recommend at every opportunity.
Kristin Bonett
2025-09-03 18:49:24 +0000 UTCI 100% agree with your analyses about advancing more courageous & progressive leaning, more progressive than not, to counter balance the far right through the power structures in the parties, business & media. Thanks so much for leading by example. I also think some scotus types belong in a criminal court for financial crimes and accepting honorifics from foreign entities, if nothing else. Would be nice to hear more attacks at the sexism, racism, ableism, classism on display in writing from all quarters. Not only from Roberts’ “hysteria” comments, but also the insults to KBJ’s intelligence & qualifications despite being (arguably) the most qualified appointment *ever*
Debbie D.
2025-09-03 18:43:38 +0000 UTCRhiannon’s speech made me want to throw a brick!!! That is a good thing!!!
Spritez0Lemonade
2025-09-03 17:16:50 +0000 UTCA podcast is not therapy but that doesn't mean it can't be therapeutic. I need a good Rhiannon rant occasionally, especially in these trying times. Love y'all, for real.
How may wills will Will Smith smith if Will Smith will smith wills
2025-09-03 16:48:42 +0000 UTCI don’t think they were being critical of people who need to leave the country for their safety at all
Spritez0Lemonade
2025-09-03 14:47:11 +0000 UTCWe love you tay 💗💗
5-4
2025-09-03 14:19:51 +0000 UTCthis is tay i love yall toooo xx and rhiannon i wanna know all about your thoughts!! i was trying to single you out to learn more not less LMAO
moon spilling
2025-09-03 13:10:12 +0000 UTCthe show continually says "the law is politics" which imho is miles away from "the law is useless"
Michael Dwyer
2025-09-03 13:08:50 +0000 UTCI hear your point / rant about moving etc. inspiring words but also please try to have empathy for the lost 18 year old college student who is struggling to find medical care. I will stay here and fight for my family and this country but you also have to honor that some people may really be better suited fighting from the outside. It is very clear who the immediate target groups are for our modern Gestapo. Have some empathy as well here..
Tara Fly
2025-09-03 07:21:54 +0000 UTCIt sounds like you're (collectively) frustrated by the number of questions that expressed some hopelessness or sentiment that things are broken. I vaguely recall hearing something like "because I guess the law doesn't matter anymore" in one of your previous episodes. Where do you think your listeners are getting those ideas? Did I miss the part of the episode where you all paused for self reflection? Nobody thinks it's fine to run a red light because the law doesn't matter. Nobody thinks there won't be consequences for pissing on a cops shoes because the law doesn't matter. I don't know exactly what the questions were, but the context is important. I think it's true to say that the law is no longer an effective guardrail for the president. He's not afraid of being impeached and it's now impossible to convict him for crimes committed while in office. In that context, "the law doesn't matter". This isn't a situation that's existed before. Or maybe it did when Andrew Jackson was in office, but the stakes are certainly different now. Part of the broader context here is that people are sending questions to you. Three people who have spent hundreds of hours talking about how the Supreme Court is broken and how there are currently no realistic solutions to that problem. Every other week you're throwing salt into a soup pot and now it sounds to me like you're saying "Why is this soup so salty?".
Curt
2025-09-03 06:03:50 +0000 UTCI want MORE pissed Rhiannon. Pussies of the world unite!
Louise Dyble
2025-09-03 05:39:14 +0000 UTCI believe your ideals should stem not from fear of losing your rights, but from love for and a sense of duty to all people/living things. I’m not particularly prone to optimism, but if I don’t force myself to have hope then what’s the point? I’m not gonna walk into the ocean, so I might as well spend my life trying to make things better, no matter how futile it seems. That being said … while my love of humanity is my strongest motivator, my hatred of AI and the tech world is a close second — especially as an engineer and frequent user of the em dash. Sometimes, doing things out of spite is also an effective strategy
Stephanie Velazquez
2025-09-03 04:34:10 +0000 UTCRi's speech was exactly what I needed to hear. I've been getting low on hope. And she's right! That is what they want. I'm so glad to have Ri as a best friend and it's totally not parasocial.
Abe
2025-09-03 02:59:53 +0000 UTCI'm at minute 42 and I would love to download Rhiannon's monologue separately to yell at me whenever the little demon in my brain starts to wonder if the doomsayers are right. GO OFF!!!
Zara
2025-09-03 02:42:37 +0000 UTCPeter's silence on the Chiefs question says it all. He knows being a Chiefs fan is indefensible.
Olivia Rollins
2025-09-03 02:27:44 +0000 UTCIt's true that we don't know when, how, why, or what will fell the Fascists, but most of us don't understand or comprehend in the least how it is they wanna be like this, so I 100% sympathize with every possible negative reaction to the Fascism. I generally feel pretty schizophrenetic in my own day to day reactions & feelings & cannot claim to have a steadfast or consistent belief about what to do or how to fight against it. Do good & be good, stand up and fight, help your neighbors, and find a cause are all good thoughts and I believe most people I know and talk to are also all over the place about what to do right now. I think in the midst of not knowing about what will happen, as we have many genuine crises on our hands, it makes perfect sense to keep an open mind to all available options. Crisis literally means "turning point." It is the moment when decision(s) must be made that could affect the entirety of the foreseeable future. We have to stay open minded to each other in order to help each other best and find a constructive solidarity or however you want to think of that word. Yes, they want us to cower and flee and obey, but they also want us to divide and fight amongst ourselves, so be conscious of that too. As destruction of virtually all of our institutions is underway, I find myself vascillating a lot between confused outrage and dread wondering why on earth these people are doing these things and then imagining the future in preparation for the time when we might need to start over, rebuild, or start anew under some completely different context.... I am often wondering and asking myself and others what it might could or would take to make a better or more sustainable enlightened liberal democratic order or some analagous construct that transcends the evils and purges the injustices which persisted through so many of the years after the creation of this one. Perhaps we can invent another blueprint that envisions another future which we may have to spend a few more centuries "perfecting." What would that look like? Can we find a way to foundationally enshrine everything that we built through the last 250 yrs.+ add all of what's still missing? It helps me to think of it that way, when I can. Democracy is inherently fragile. But it is still my favorite. I think we can do a little bit better if we can figure out how to ensure that it is more participatory and active and also figure out how to enshrine protections for all the peoples, all the rocks, trees, dirt, animals, plants, clouds, insects, and other cool stuff.
Shawn Galbraith
2025-09-03 01:05:39 +0000 UTCI think I needed my actual best friend, Rhiannon, to tell me to stop being a bitch and keep fighting—especially after listing all of the groups who have way more reason to be afraid than I do. I may be a dumbass, but I’m a dumbass who wants to fight.
Ghostly
2025-09-03 00:25:19 +0000 UTCI can’t believe Peter didn’t do a hot mic bit after the end credits.
MeowMeow
2025-09-03 00:03:40 +0000 UTCRi's speech is incredibly moving and motivating. I needed to hear that so badly. Thank you.
Curtis Kofoed
2025-09-02 23:49:39 +0000 UTCWhatever the loins, gird up that shit.
Matelda
2025-09-02 23:31:09 +0000 UTCConsider me came to Jesus 🫡
Lauren Moore
2025-09-02 22:56:30 +0000 UTCThanks so much guys. So glad I got to listen to this today. I will be forcefully playing this in the ears of everyone I know for the next few months.
Genna Koyn
2025-09-02 22:53:01 +0000 UTCRhiannon PLEASE do a full episode on your politics. And book recs. Would love to listen. Appreciate yall as always
Ari
2025-09-02 22:48:26 +0000 UTCI completely understand where Rhiannon is coming from, and she's not even wrong to feel that way. But in defense of those writing in that she's so mad about, it's because we are very, very aware of how quickly it can go irretrievably wrong. In Bed With The Right has been doing the year 1933 in Germany, month by month, and the parallels are incredibly terrifying. The Nazis actually built and opened Dachau WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR, which is something people don't often know. Because we know how that ended, those who are most vulnerable do not want to be caught off-guard like Jews in Europe were. They want to know what is the line of no return. They want to be prepared more than anything. And unlike 1933, when Germany became very dangerous for Jews, leftists, LGBTQ people, etc., there isn't any shining hope country right now. America is part of the problem now. America is the bad place. It may not be lost, but in 1933, many in Europe could look to America and see hope. Where do people look for it now? The UK has a nominally center-left government that keeps parroting the far right, repeating the Biden Democrats mistakes. Germany is teetering. Italy is run by fascists. Canada is not powerful and vulnerable to this country. There are few places that people have available to them, and while that may be the best reason to fight our asses off for this country, there are many whose first goal is to stay free, and we shouldn't be angry at them for it. The anger needs to be directed at those who failed us, and they need to be the first ones replaced. We need to show that there are people here who can be trusted to lead and fight. We need to give people someone to rally around, because that's how humans think and operate. We can't expect everyone who is vulnerable to say "sod it" and stay vulnerable. People have families and kids, and it's much easier for those who don't to say "stand and fight." Anyway, those are some thoughts off the top of my head as I just listened to this.
wolverinethad
2025-09-02 22:23:55 +0000 UTCRhiannon ❤️❤️❤️ thank you. I always remind my students that hope is a discipline (love Mariame Kaba).
Peyton Bond
2025-09-02 22:14:36 +0000 UTCRhiannon’s rant was excellent. She put a voice to the feeling I haven’t been able to articulate. Great episode and please continue with the tasteful vulgarity. ❤️- Your Real Friend
Keith Young
2025-09-02 21:38:48 +0000 UTCBack before it turned into the Anti-Trans and Pro-Genocide Gazette, I used to go to The Atlantic pretty regularly to read Ta-Nehisi Coates' blog. Sometime after he wrote "The Case for Reparations" Coates got a whole lot of questions focused on hope like you all were exploring, and he said something in response (I don't remember if this was in an interview or in a blog post or whatever). But I do remember him saying something to the effect of: chattel slavery in the United States lasted for 250 years. That means there were people who were born and died, whose grandparents were born and died, whose children had born and died, all in the span of that 250 years of some of the most brutal, explotative and inhumane conditions in human history. If you want to imagine a situation that could engender hopelessness, that'd be it. And yet, people struggled against that system of chattel slavery the whole time. Knowing that they very well may never live to see the end of it. And they did it anyway, whether they felt hopeful or not. Anyway I remember hearing that and thinking "fuck, when you put it that way i guess i can hang in there for a few years and see if i can't help some others do the same"
Michael Dwyer
2025-09-02 21:29:42 +0000 UTCSame. How do I gift paid accounts?
Pixie
2025-09-02 20:56:00 +0000 UTCI went through a roller coaster of emotions listening to Rhiannon go off— most of it to do with my own shame from feeling so helpless (not helped by my depression). I got defensive at first, felt called out.. but you know what, Rhiannon is 100% right. I feel like a screaming character in a survival film, who just saw someone get eating by a shark or something, and Rhi just slapped me in the face, screaming “IF WE’RE GONNA GET OUTTA HERE YOU GOTTA GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!” She pulled me out of a dark hole. I wanna hug her for it it. Thank you for speaking your loud and righteous truth Rhiannon. You are a Texas Star and I’m grateful for you. (The boys are nice too) I’m so fucking fired up. Let’s GOOOOOOOOO 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Mads
2025-09-02 20:51:15 +0000 UTCWell, Rhiannon was so right about people in marginalized groups needing to recognize their power that I cried, hard. Ugly crying; full, cathartic weeping. Needed it
Roxie V
2025-09-02 20:49:57 +0000 UTCI vote for Michael doing an episode about this
Niamh
2025-09-02 20:38:54 +0000 UTCReal shit, Jenny. This is awesome. I was born here, but I agree with everything you're saying. It's really validating to hear this stuff from someone from abroad. I often feel unqualified to make these points of yours to my friends who're mostly American citizens by birth like me. Thanks for writing and sharing!!
gibbdude
2025-09-02 19:35:09 +0000 UTCThanks to this pod, I've been able to ask better questions of the media that crosses my algorithm. When Kim Davis popped back up, I finally thought to look at who is bankrolling her court cases. It's the Liberty Counsel just using her as a front man, as these conservative groups are known to do. Humbly requesting an episode on them in the future if the case progresses. Please and thank you.
Seancé Knowles
2025-09-02 19:11:59 +0000 UTCIndian independence took 200 years. There was both violence and a non-violent fight. There was a lot of discourse on the vision for India post-independence and the “ethical” path there. The thing I always admired was that the populace never stopped. Even after, till everyone in the subcontinent was under a democracy, they worked to liberate Goa etc. They could have been content in themselves living in freedom but they fought for others.
Vaidehi Krishnan
2025-09-02 18:43:54 +0000 UTCI needed to hear this! Please release this to the main feed so I can share with liberal whiny baby friends who need to hear it even more than I do!
Jennifer Sader
2025-09-02 18:43:33 +0000 UTC😂😂😂
5-4
2025-09-02 18:37:27 +0000 UTCI really want this
Vaidehi Krishnan
2025-09-02 18:37:13 +0000 UTCso so good. thank y'all from an Alabamian <3
Amelia Ray
2025-09-02 18:36:33 +0000 UTCI love you guys, but "Obergefell" is stressed on the first syllable.
Alan
2025-09-02 18:22:02 +0000 UTCGreat work, guys. Particular thanks of course to Rhiannon for talking back against leftist nihilism in both its exceptionalist/entitled and masochistic/self-destructive forms. Please, please, make this episode public! I still feel like I'll probably have to leave the States at some point because I legit can't survive (like, paranoia bordering on psychosis and extreme self-destructive tendencies) without my psych meds. The way things are headed, I'm likely gonna lose access to them due to import restrictions and Medicaid cuts. I'll stick it out as long as I can, though, and I'm committed unconditionally to building socialism wherever I end up--or I'll die trying. One thing I wanted to add, on the subject of left nihilism, is that, if you're a person of color, trans, gay, hell, even and especially if you're poor or marginalized in general, your survival itself is resisting fascism. This has its limits, of course. It wouldn't be good for fascism if Peter Thiel died. But, for the majority of us who fall into such categories, taking care of ourselves and finding little ways to enjoy our lives, particularly our chores, hygeine, relationships, and political work, is both productive and necessary. The right wants survivor's guilt to kill us. They need us to have nothing to be happy for, because otherwise, we might actually have a point about making the world a better place for everyone. Please take a deep breath, and make just a little space to appreciate something in your life, something a ghoulish freak like Elon Musk couldn't have. Maybe it's an authentic friendship, game, or inside joke; maybe it's a special snack or meal; maybe it's just some down time in a nice, quiet spot near you. Those humble little pleasures are the fuel that keep us running, so that we can handle our part in far bigger efforts. Our movements are powered by simple stuff like that. Don't forget what you're fighting for. Stay strong, everyone.
gibbdude
2025-09-02 18:19:50 +0000 UTCsomeone PLEASE take rhiannon's speech and do the motivational quote edit thing, like the kind with beautiful nature clips.
guillotine, goblin peasant
2025-09-02 18:15:56 +0000 UTCI needed this today. Thanks, y'all. May we all keep fighting!
Verbose Minimalist
2025-09-02 18:04:07 +0000 UTCTo add to it. I find it so weird to be dejected as a leftist. Ask yourself if everything you wanted were to happen tomorrow, would you be content? The answer is no. I will never be content. I will always ask how can humans flourish better. When we ascend this mountain it will only serve to allow us to see the next peak. And we keep climbing until we die because there is always more we can do.
Joe Oliva
2025-09-02 18:00:31 +0000 UTCGreat ep, y'all. Toward "what is required of us", I wonder if you would feel comfortable doing a critical examination of The Nuremberg Trials? A survey of its shortcomings, and what they demonstrate about what a successful legal process to hold complicit parties to account might look like could be interesting and useful. Maybe a comparative look at South African Truth and Reconciliation, etc... It would be a bit outside your norm but could be neat!
Alex Hansen
2025-09-02 17:58:51 +0000 UTCfunny seeing you here!! <3
Harley
2025-09-02 17:47:46 +0000 UTCSo... When does the revolution start? And I do mean when are you actually gonna rise up and round up ALL of these corrupt sociopathic politicians, judges and CEOs and end their reign of terror (e.g. by bulldozing them into the sea)?
D G
2025-09-02 17:16:57 +0000 UTCRi i would LOVE to hear u talk abt yr political frameworks, honestly i'd listen to a whole ep of that.
Alana Turnbull
2025-09-02 16:57:43 +0000 UTCyippeeee
Lydia Mattson
2025-09-02 16:53:13 +0000 UTCat work we just cited one of those solo thomas dissents in our cert petition for a case about curbing section 230 - it’s kind of helpful when politics flip sides to have dissents from specific justices like that to illustrate your points when you’re asking for relief and substantive change at that level that may have a political valence to it
KT
2025-09-02 16:24:29 +0000 UTCAs is so often the case, Rhiannon’s words were what I really needed to hear in this moment. It’s not about what gives me hope, it’s what about makes me feel powerful. What gives me the strength to keep going and do what’s I know is right, even if it costs me. And so often, that strength comes from remembering the people I’m fighting for and the people who are fighting for me - the community I’m fighting with. We can’t do it alone - but guess what? We’re not alone.
Cat S
2025-09-02 16:16:35 +0000 UTCI appreciate this so much. I know I have been feeling my own anger and frustration at some friends in my life who have disengaged and talking about moving to another country and Rhiannon you encapsulated all of my anger and frustration with that mindset. This is my home, I don’t want to leave I want to make it better, I want to fight. I know the first thing I did after the inauguration was hang my trans and lesbian pride flags up in my public middle school classroom because I refused to let this fascist regime push me into the closet.
Eliza Stitely
2025-09-02 16:09:19 +0000 UTCLove you all and thank you for the pep talk! Wanted to add too that those of us who came to the US from the global periphery of imperialism know: fascism, ethno-nationalism, and capital-colonialism have been the continuing undercurrents of our world for the past ~400 years, and people everywhere have been fighting against them for just as long. (I'm from Taiwan and we had martial law until the year I was born. For as long as I've been alive, my people have struggled with how to build democracy while navigating the legacy of post-WWII violence and continued influence from the US, China, and Japan.) No matter where we go in the world, the fight is the same fight! So choose where you live based on how much risk and danger you can realistically tolerate, and how much opportunity for meaningful action your environment affords you. But there is no giving up the struggle -- because nowhere on earth is a paradise, except for what we can build with our hands and with each other. <3
Jenny
2025-09-02 16:04:48 +0000 UTCyaaass, Rhiannon!!! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🔥🔥🔥🔥 😭🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💖 Thank you, you all So grateful for your devotion, honesty, wisdom, and sincerity.
Anna Wilson
2025-09-02 16:01:02 +0000 UTCHoly shit, Rhiannon. I want everyone I know to listen to that monologue. 👏
KT
2025-09-02 15:32:27 +0000 UTCI attended a hopelessly insufficient conversation event between Justice Sotomayor and Erwin Chemerinsky a few years ago while in law school. I remember her responding to a question along the lines of “How can we have hope right now?” She gave a long reply but the portion that really resonated with me is “What entitles you uniquely to despair?”
Evan Mantler
2025-09-02 15:13:00 +0000 UTCCan Michael drop his Letterboxd plz
Emma Mendelson
2025-09-02 14:56:54 +0000 UTCRhiannon got me crying (good cry!) as I'm opening the store this morning.
Jonathan Hogue
2025-09-02 14:54:12 +0000 UTCRhiannon 😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗😭💗 the people love you!!!!!!!!!
ellieonwheels
2025-09-02 14:25:37 +0000 UTCHighly recommend the Upstream podcast episode "How to fall in love with the future"!
Jen
2025-09-02 14:13:47 +0000 UTCLOVE the anti-doomerism stuff! Ironically the statement that gave me hope back in November 2024 went something like this: "You are living in fundamentally the same world you were living in yesterday. The things we need to do to build a better one are also the same. So take a deep breath and let's get back to work." Things are really bad. They've been bad for a long time. But we keep going. I've been getting a lot of motivation from art as well, and from a lot of online queer communists who are just the modern version of 60s hippes-- the sort of people who can imagine a Star Trek-esque utopian future and work to build as much of it as we can here and now. One of their mantras is: I believe that we will win. "We" here meaning humanity as a whole. I also believe that we will win.
Victoria Borges
2025-09-02 14:03:58 +0000 UTCI want to hear your abolitionist evolution Rhiannon!
Lindsey Breneman
2025-09-02 14:02:43 +0000 UTCThe setup had me expecting the first questioner to suggest going pelican brief but then I heard the question and I figured he’d been almost pelican briefed and his brain had been dead for a couple minutes.
NYCM&AHole
2025-09-02 13:48:02 +0000 UTCPussies are strong!! Love your statement and it totally hits all the feels! Thank you Rhiannon and all for everything that you do!
Rithya Kunnawalkam Elayavalli
2025-09-02 13:42:45 +0000 UTCTrump is brandonified
NYCM&AHole
2025-09-02 13:34:15 +0000 UTCAndy thank you for sending that question I really needed to laugh this morning
Meowca
2025-09-02 13:29:58 +0000 UTCAlso just plugging In Bed with the Right’s Project 1933 series explaining the lead up to Nazi rule in Germany related to Michael’s point. It’s sooooo enlightening.
Sarah
2025-09-02 13:29:27 +0000 UTCYes Rhiannon!!!! The pep talk I needed to hear this morning. I’ve had the passing thought of trying to leave the U.S. recently, but I always call myself out of it with exactly what you said. We have to stay here, stand up together, and fight. I can’t bear the thought of leaving my neighbors and community behind, so here I am, doing my best. So grateful for y’all.
Sarah
2025-09-02 13:27:12 +0000 UTCI was just gonna say damn Andy, they’re killing you in this one
Dylan Stephens
2025-09-02 13:27:09 +0000 UTCgoddamn, rip andy
Wojtek
2025-09-02 13:05:44 +0000 UTCRhiannon's COOKING in this one Maybe it's the fact that my dumb ass lived 40+ years in Puerto Rico that's prepared me a little for this moment, but I don't have time for doomers and fatalists bemoaning how bad it's become It IS bad! But this ain't the moment to throw up your arms and give up. Being a federal employee has only made me *more* ornery
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
2025-09-02 12:55:43 +0000 UTCI love a podcast that roasts those who interact because i can parasocially feel its about me, be better, and ask better questions next time. they are our true friends after all.
M
2025-09-02 12:30:05 +0000 UTCI think Andy has a lovely idea for a Star Trek spec script. We support you, Andy!
Victoria Borges
2025-09-02 12:25:16 +0000 UTCGO OFF RHIANNON! Yes, yes, yes, my nonparasocial bestie!
Unruly Quaker
2025-09-02 11:36:41 +0000 UTCim here to step my pussy UP
Colin White
2025-09-02 11:04:39 +0000 UTCcould you make it a retweetable soundbite pls
sallie
2025-09-02 10:44:57 +0000 UTCI left America three years ago and have become way more engaged as a result. I am able to fight better over in the UK, bc I’m not constantly dysregulated but I’m more invested now than I’ve ever been in trying to better America.
Taylor Schackmann
2025-09-02 10:41:51 +0000 UTCso so so so love your statement Rhiannon. I'm moving back to the US after 9 years abroad precisely for this reason - it's time to come back and fight. Your message brought me to tears
sallie
2025-09-02 10:39:25 +0000 UTCFucking COOK Rhiannon!
Claire
2025-09-02 09:40:28 +0000 UTC
