arsenalvisionpodcast

arsenalvisionpodcast

Is The Table Lying To Us

Added 2021-11-10 16:43:10 +0000 UTC

On this episode of the Arsenal Vision Analytics Pod, Scott is joined by Mike Goodman (@TheM_L_G) the cohost of the Double Pivot Podcast and Senior Editor for Soccer at CBS Sports.

The discussion goes through Martin Ødegaard, Alexandre Lacazette, Arsenal's tactics, and more. Then switching gear to see how the table is lying to us now that we have 11 matches in the books. Lastly known Arsenal hater Mike is forced to make the case that Arsenal is actually a good team.

Is The Table Lying To Us

Comments

Of course. I don’t think anyone rules out the possibility that players can surprise us. But there are always players who are underestimated whether with data or just people not rating them. Jamie Vardy was an unknown until his late 20s. Tbf, salah was showing his massive potential by the time he was 23

2021-11-14 21:54:41 +0000 UTC

I do think I made a good point about Ramsey and Salah though in my initial post.

2021-11-14 21:52:49 +0000 UTC

Well you got an overlong and defensive response so I apologize 😂

2021-11-14 21:50:37 +0000 UTC

I admitted it was probably harsh and I regret posting that follow up

2021-11-14 21:50:02 +0000 UTC

This seems really harsh. An analytical examination of football is an attempt to use the data available to us to better understand what is happening in the games and to try to explore what might happen in the future. It’s by no means meant to be the only approach to analyzing the games. Nor is it some self congratulatory approach where the goal is to be right at the expense of the joy and spontaneity of football. If I say I think we are going to lose to Liverpool, I’m not saying “I hope” we are going to lose to Liverpool. All analysis. Statistical or otherwise, is using available information to draw conclusions and make predictions. I don’t know why you think your approach of just saying what you think is somehow more romantic or open to being delighted than any other approach. Also the thing you seem to miss is that being a “stats guy” doesn’t preclude someone from being another type of guy too. Stats people watch games. Cheer. Get surprised. Experience the ups and downs. And bring a level of qualitative analysis to the game too. You can incorporate multiple approaches to analysis into your way of watching football. I’d even argue that doing so makes you a more well rounded observer. I guess I don’t see what’s wrong with trying to quantify things. Realize that the final score of a game is “stats” The number of goals a player scored is “stats.” If you’ve ever said “oh, auba should score there” you’ve just used expected goals in your analysis. But my final point is that I don’t see how being interested in this type of analysis precludes someone From enjoying football in the way you think. 🤷‍♂️

2021-11-14 20:52:44 +0000 UTC

You stats guys give me the feeling that the greatest thrill you could get from football is if a player/team/manager exactly fitted and performed to all your numbers, limitations and predictions. You’d all high five each other for your brilliant statistical insight. Maybe that’s harsh but it’s what makes me uncomfortable with this increasingly noticeable focus.

2021-11-14 20:44:58 +0000 UTC

My issue with the stats-oriented approach to football is summed up in your early comment about Smith Rowe where you say something like “I don’t see him going from 1.8 shots a game to above 2.0”. In the same sentence you reference that he reminds you of Aaron Ramsey with his late runs into the box. Ramsey went from 1 goal in 36 PL games as a 21/22 year old to 10 in 23 the next season. Footballers are not robots or “players” in computer games. They are unpredictable humans with hugely varying potential and possibility. Look at Mo Salah and how he exploded in his mid-20s. There’s something about reducing humans to “skill set” limits and stats that is deeply depressing. Surely the idea of something unpredictable happening is one of the great joys of sport?!

2021-11-14 20:25:30 +0000 UTC

Yes! The two Patreons I subscribe to in one episode!

2021-11-12 14:10:19 +0000 UTC

Isn’t there an adjustment basis half the team had never played together two months ago? Perhaps the additional game time together as the season moves forward offsets some of the potential downside risk?

2021-11-11 14:13:09 +0000 UTC

Great pod - should do this more often.

2021-11-11 14:08:07 +0000 UTC

Really enjoyed that!

2021-11-11 06:26:39 +0000 UTC

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